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Interested read from one of the more responsible Liberal publications.
1 posted on 02/17/2005 6:31:57 PM PST by pissant
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To: pissant
"It is liberalism that is now bookless and dying."

I appreciate his optimism.

"People who are voluntarily obliged to each other across classes and races, professions and ethnicities, tend to trust each other"

Voluntarily being the operative word here.

"That complaint is not a matter of circumstance. It is a permanent affliction of the liberal mind."

Bears repeating.

47 posted on 02/17/2005 8:12:41 PM PST by sweetliberty (Blind stupidity or blind loyalty is still blind.)
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To: pissant

Wow, a thoughtful liberal. Look quick. They're almost extinct.


50 posted on 02/17/2005 8:24:06 PM PST by Athwart
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To: pissant
Reinhold Niebuhr

I remember reading 'Moral Man, Immoral Society' in college. It was required text for a Religious Studies course at Penn State, believe it or not. The idea behind the title can be boiled down to one example (in Niebuhr's thinking): the execution of a murderer.

52 posted on 02/17/2005 8:40:50 PM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: pissant

Outstanding article! Thanks for posting it. Thanks to Martin Peretz for writing it!


54 posted on 02/17/2005 8:53:13 PM PST by PGalt
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To: pissant
Sound exactly like the anti-immigrant yahoos.
55 posted on 02/17/2005 8:57:44 PM PST by Cultural Jihad
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To: pissant
You hear the schadenfreude in their voices--you read it in their words--at our troubles in Iraq. For months, liberals have been peddling one disaster scenario after another, one contradictory fact somehow reinforcing another, hoping now against hope that their gloomy visions will come true.

WOW!!!
This is an unbelievable admission from a liberal about his own party, the Democrat Party.

I, and many others around here, noted long ago that the Democrats were silently begging not only for an economic recession in which people lost their jobs, their homes, and their savings, but for lots and lots of filled body bags to come home from Iraq. It was clear that the Democrats figured their election prospects improved with such tragedies. We all shook our heads and wondered just how sick the Democrats were....

And here, along comes this author to confirm our suspicions - - the Democrats were, and remain, sicker than Dahmer's vomit.

56 posted on 02/17/2005 9:01:17 PM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: pissant; Darkwolf377

Reality is finally making a dent in some of the libs consciousness, though they still have a long, long way to go. Proof of this is the selection of Howie as their leader.

The other problem that will take them a long time to overcome (if ever) is their congenital ignorance of economics. The following passage provides the evidence:

"This is the dizzying specter of economic competition from China, whose hold on U.S. Treasury bonds leaves the dollar vulnerable to a tremendous decline should China decide to sell them."

It also illustrates the shallowness of their thinking, because if he had thought about this statement for another second he would have realized that China would be cutting their own throat if they dumped all the treasuries.


59 posted on 02/17/2005 9:56:12 PM PST by aquila48
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To: All

Great writing from an honest liberal.


61 posted on 02/17/2005 10:11:09 PM PST by Luke21
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To: pissant

Yeah, but still clueless.


62 posted on 02/17/2005 10:19:17 PM PST by Frumious Bandersnatch
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To: pissant

Yikes! Way to go Marty! You've come a long way from firing Michael Kelly for criticizing Al Gore. Or was it Andrew Sullivan? Anyway...nice progress and well said.


64 posted on 02/17/2005 10:40:04 PM PST by Deb (Beat him, strip him and bring him to my tent!)
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To: pissant
For months, liberals have been peddling one disaster scenario after another… hoping now against hope that their gloomy visions will come true.

True. Everyone who is attached to a gloomy vision from the 60's is a walking disaster. But the liberals today reject the profound liberalism of John Locke and Thomas Jefferson and are people who are attached to a gloomy vision from the 60's. Therefore, liberals today are a walking disaster. As Martin Perez writes,

"The liberals are themselves uninspired by a vision of the good society."
65 posted on 02/17/2005 10:41:19 PM PST by Falconspeed (Keep your fears to yourself, but share your courage with others. R.L.Stevenson)
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To: pissant

Sounds like this liberal has a fairly firm grasp of reality, and what that reality is doing to his political party.


67 posted on 02/18/2005 7:13:24 AM PST by Grampa Dave (The MSM has been a WMD, Weapon of Mass Disinformation for the Rats for at least 4 decades.)
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To: pissant
This writer is someone with whom one could have a civil conversation, freely discuss ideas, agreements, and disagreements, and go away respecting if not ageeing with his points of view.

It wasn't so long ago (the 80's in my case) when I would have very friendly and spirited give and take with liberal democrat friends. That is now barely possible and I honestly believe that it wasn't me who's changed. People like this writer (Christopher Hitchens also comes to mind) on the left have indeed become a very rare species.

68 posted on 02/18/2005 7:58:10 AM PST by katana
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To: pissant
Who is a truly influential liberal mind in our culture? Whose ideas challenge and whose ideals inspire?

Lawrence Summers. Unfortunately his idea that challenged was a conservative idea.

These are not axiomatic questions for them, as can be seen by their determined and contravening success last week in empowering not the states against Washington but Washington against the states in the area of tort law.

No, it is evidence that we want things handled where they should be handled. If a case has participants from several states it is no longer a matter to be decided by the one state with the most liberal judges but by the federal government

Still, liberals know that the right's ideologically framed--but class-motivated--retreat of the government from the economy must be resisted.

Here is the peak of his error. Liberals see classes. Conservatives only see people.

69 posted on 02/18/2005 7:59:10 AM PST by John O (God Save America (Please))
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To: pissant
People who are voluntarily obliged to each other across classes and races, professions and ethnicities, tend to trust each other, like a patient his doctor and a student her teacher. It is not easy to limn out such a vision practically. But we have it in our bones.

An interesting read, but the author is still being intellectually dishonest if he believes this. Liberal programs of big-government, welfare and wealth distribution are not VOLUNTARY, they are enforced by law, and as such, involve implied violence upon a section of the population - the productive section whose wealth is confiscated to pay for the program.

A second point: elsewhere, the author points out that some capitlist entities, such as Enron, have committed fraud, and then reasons from the single to the general - capitalism cannot be trusted etc so government bureaucrats should be in control. While that is a logical fallacy in itself (reasoning from the single to the general), it also raises the question, ignored by the author, "why should we trust government anymore than corporations?" Obviously, governments are capable of defrauding the population in many ways (inflation, currency devaluation, abuse of eminent domain rights, changes in the covenant between current taxation and future "entitlements", confiscation of pension rights etc).

That the author ignored these issues tells me that this is actually an example of what he decries - more shallow thinking, dressed up with a good helping of adjectives.

The great unspoken truth, which the author cannot bring himself to admit, is that liberalism/socialism is bunk.

70 posted on 02/18/2005 9:01:39 AM PST by alnitak ("That kid's about as sharp as a pound of wet liver" - Foghorn Leghorn)
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To: pissant
Thanks for posting.

Rush just said he's going to read excerpts from this today.

71 posted on 02/18/2005 9:09:17 AM PST by shhrubbery!
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To: pissant

El Bumpo


72 posted on 02/18/2005 10:54:34 AM PST by Run Silent Run Deep
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To: pissant
Losing their delusions?!

Without delusions liberals would have no ideology whatsoever.

75 posted on 02/18/2005 11:03:54 AM PST by CaptRon (Pedecaris alive or Raisuli dead)
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To: pissant
Scary to see a liberal "getting it". The following comment's true, and the writer is brave to say it:

For months, liberals have been peddling one disaster scenario after another, one contradictory fact somehow reinforcing another, hoping now against hope that their gloomy visions will come true.

I happen to believe that they won't. This will not curb the liberal complaint. That complaint is not a matter of circumstance. It is a permanent affliction of the liberal mind. It is not a symptom; it is a condition. And it is a condition related to the desperate hopes liberals have vested in the United Nations. That is their lodestone. But the lodestone does not perform. It is not a magnet for the good. It performs the magic of the wicked. It is corrupt, it is pompous, it is shackled to tyrants and cynics. It does not recognize a genocide when the genocide is seen and understood by all. Liberalism now needs to be liberated from many of its own illusions and delusions. Let's hope we still have the strength.

76 posted on 02/18/2005 11:23:17 AM PST by GOPJ (Liberals haven't had a new idea in 40 years.)
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To: All
Unless I am missing something the DLC's New Democrat On Line (ndol.org) agrees. Twentieth century liberalim belongs on the trash heap (as conservatism deserves to remain in the trash heap, of course.)

A third way is needed. The New Democrat Third Way progressives favor free markets to build wealth and bring "social justice" to the masses. They are for rules-based "free trade" and globalization. They make the rules. They are Davos.

Hardly any difference between them and our very own "free traders."

Well, except for one difference. When the progressives and their Davos elites ask you "free traders," do you have rope to sell? RUN!

81 posted on 02/18/2005 1:56:45 PM PST by WilliamofCarmichael (MSM Fraudcasters are skid marks on journalism's clean shorts.)
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