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Tainted media [Kerry's 'honorable' discharge?]
TownHall.com ^ | February 18, 2005 | Thomas Sowell

Posted on 02/18/2005 3:32:05 AM PST by johnny7

The recent resignation of CNN's news director, Eason Jordan, after his outrageous remarks about our military at an international forum were reported on the Internet, is only the latest in a series of media scandals, of which Dan Rather's forged documents were just one. Media bias does not consist in having liberal or conservative opinions but in how you do your job -- or don't do it.

One document whose authenticity is not likely to be questioned by the mainstream media is the honorable discharge on Senator John Kerry's web site. Yet who in the major media has investigated why that honorable discharge is dated during the Carter administration, when Kerry's military service ended years earlier? This is the same media that spent months investigating George W. Bush's military record and, even after key allegations were revealed to be based on forgeries, continued publicizing rumors and innuendoes. They didn't stop even after the President signed Form 180, opening all his military records to the public. But who in the major media has asked why John Kerry would need to be issued an honorable discharge during the Carter administration, years after leaving the navy, unless his original discharge was less than honorable?

One of Jimmy Carter's first acts as President was to issue an order granting amnesties to draft dodgers who had fled the country during the Vietnam war and also allowing an upgrading of military discharges that had been less than honorable. There is more to this than simply a strange date on an honorable discharge. The covering memo refers to U.S. Code Title 10, sections 1162 and 1163. Anyone who bothers to read those sections will discover that they are about unusual circumstances for issuing discharges from the military services. Senator Kerry never signed Form 180 to make all his military records public, as President Bush had done -- and the media didn't press him to do so. Even after Kerry's widely publicized role as a war hero was challenged by numerous men who had served with him in Vietnam, the media remained totally uninterested in checking out his record.

This gross double standard is the real media scandal, even more than the forged documents, which were after all the responsibility of just one network and one program. Maybe there is a perfectly innocent explanation for Senator Kerry's late-dated honorable discharge during the Carter administration. But no explanation has been asked or given, even though there may also be a not so innocent explanation.

What is well known is that, during the Vietnam war, John Kerry went to Paris on his own and engaged in discussions or negotiations with representatives of the country with whom we were at war, even though he was still an officer in the naval reserve. That raises legal questions about unauthorized personal diplomacy which naval authorities may not have overlooked as generously as the media did, and which could have affected the kind of discharge that Kerry received. One of the few people in the media who has shown any interest at all in Kerry's military records has been Tim Russert of "Meet the Press." He asked Senator Kerry on April 18, 2004 if he would "make all your records public." Kerry indicated that his records were already public, that people "can come and see them" at his headquarters.

But recently, on January 30, 2005, when Tim Russert again raised that question and asked "Would you sign Form 180?" -- the form that Bush had signed to open all his military records -- Kerry started off on a tangent before Russert interrupted him to repeat that same question. This time Kerry said, "Yes, I will." He will? He had already done so last year, if you believe what he said then. But will the media call him on it if he doesn't follow through now? Don't bet on it. This is not about the past or ultimately even about Kerry or Bush. It is about the future of this country. A gullible public learning only what is filtered to them by a biased media is not a hopeful sign for the future of a democracy.

Some of the public have begun to wake up but more need to do so. Many in the media also need to wake up to what they are doing, or failing to do, when their politics taints their work.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: discharge; gagamaggot; kerrydischarge; kerryisaschmuck; kerryrecord; lyingtraitor; medialies; militaryrecord; thomassowell
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It's been my belief all along that J. F'n. K. got Carter to 'doctor-the-books'. Given Carter's pacifist tendencies, doing this would fit his character... and he HAD the power to do so.

However, knowing how the military tends to keep triplicates of anything, this 'white-wash' might just be waiting to be revealed.

1 posted on 02/18/2005 3:32:06 AM PST by johnny7
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Comment #2 Removed by Moderator

To: johnny7; 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub

Was this ever discussed in the MSM?..I know this isn't exactly MSM but it not a blog either..

A keeper..!
snip
"One of Jimmy Carter's first acts as President was to issue an order granting amnesties to draft dodgers who had fled the country during the Vietnam war and also allowing an upgrading of military discharges that had been less than honorable. There is more to this than simply a strange date on an honorable discharge. The covering memo refers to U.S. Code Title 10, sections 1162 and 1163. Anyone who bothers to read those sections will discover that they are about unusual circumstances for issuing discharges from the military services. Senator Kerry never signed Form 180 to make all his military records public, as President Bush had done -- and the media didn't press him to do so. Even after Kerry's widely publicized role as a war hero was challenged by numerous men who had served with him in Vietnam, the media remained totally uninterested in checking out his record."

Heat!!


3 posted on 02/18/2005 3:39:28 AM PST by MEG33 (GOD BLESS OUR ARMED FORCES)
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To: LightCrusader

There is no statute of limitations for treason or sedition under the UCMJ.


4 posted on 02/18/2005 3:41:14 AM PST by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink.)
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To: johnny7
Here is the thing that blows my mind...Kerry testified before a Senate committee that he witnessed war atrocities committed by US troops. Since he was an officer and did not document and report these activities, then he was in violation of the UMCJ and should have been charged with dereliction of duty at the least. From what I gathered, the Senators thanked him for his testimony. They did not ask him for names, dates, or anything as far as I know. Maybe someone can enlighten me on this, but Kerry should have received a Dishonorable Discharge. That would preclude him from being a Senator. Maybe, in a legal sense Kerry should never been a Senator as he disqualified himself by virtue of his own words.
5 posted on 02/18/2005 3:42:40 AM PST by gr8eman (I think...therefore I am...a capitalist!)
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To: johnny7

They might (but won't) also ask why Kerry's Silver Star citation was signed by John Lehmen, who wasn't Secretary of the Navy until 8 years later, rather than John Chafee.


6 posted on 02/18/2005 3:44:04 AM PST by Jaxter ("Vivit Post Funera Virtus")
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To: johnny7
this 'white-wash' might just be waiting to be revealed

I won't hold my breath waiting for it.

7 posted on 02/18/2005 3:45:14 AM PST by Robert DeLong
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To: johnny7

http://www.capmag.com/author.asp?name=3
About Thomas Sowell

Some of his articles and a short biography..


8 posted on 02/18/2005 3:45:29 AM PST by MEG33 (GOD BLESS OUR ARMED FORCES)
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To: johnny7

Problem Discharge? Solution=Penicillin.


9 posted on 02/18/2005 3:45:51 AM PST by 230FMJ (...from my cold, dead, fingers.)
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To: johnny7
Anything Jimmah did during his pathetic four years is certainly suspect.

btw do you think the Navy would like my suggestion that the new sub "Jimmy Carter" should have a yellow stripe on its back? :-)
10 posted on 02/18/2005 3:48:01 AM PST by cgbg (How evil is Hillary? Let me count the ways...)
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To: johnny7

I have written to my Senator about this. I received a reply that "Senator Kerry's Service was Honorable". The same carefully canned response that Bush put out during the campaign.

The problem is, Kerry's service was NOT honorable and was covered up by the Politico's were being played for the fool!!! They are covering each other's asses!


11 posted on 02/18/2005 3:48:29 AM PST by 26lemoncharlie (Sit nomen Dómini benedíctum,Ex hoc nunc, et usque in sæculum! per ómnia saecula saeculórum)
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To: johnny7
Well well well. Kerry, the gift that keeps on giving.

I suppose better late than never, but I hold no real hope that the media can be reformed.

12 posted on 02/18/2005 3:59:04 AM PST by Cboldt
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To: LightCrusader

"Is it too late to charge Kerry with war crimes or has the statute of limitations already expired?"

Yes, but it's not too late to get the truth out and disqualify Kerry from holding public office as a senator.


13 posted on 02/18/2005 4:03:53 AM PST by chainsaw (Hillary Clinton-June 2004 - "We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good.")
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To: johnny7
Tomas Sowell has written an excellent article here.

"One of the few people in the media who has shown any interest at all in Kerry's military records has been Tim Russert of "Meet the Press." He asked Senator Kerry on April 18, 2004 if he would "make all your records public." Kerry indicated that his records were already public, that people "can come and see them" at his headquarters."

The painting of Russert as some kind of genuine invesigative media bulldog, however, is done here without conscience.

Russert is a leftist, who like Senator Lieberman, has now become thought of as some kind of moderate and will soon, no doubt, be labled a right winger.

Russert, in April of 2004, asked but never pressed thereafter, for ALL Kerry's records. Then AFTER the election, in a "great show of courage", asked Kerry if he would sign the 180 form.

It was strictly for show.

Yeah Russert ... you're my hero.

14 posted on 02/18/2005 4:09:08 AM PST by G.Mason (The replies by this poster are meant for self-amusement only. Read at your own discretion.)
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Comment #15 Removed by Moderator

To: MEG33
The MSM is nothing more than a facade for DNC talking points. They work hand-in-hand to create the information 'Matrix' that the majority of voters watch every evening.

Kerry is 'off-limits'... he's a 'good-guy'. Better to focus on scuttling Social Security Reform and bitching that James Guckert(aka Jeff Gannon) was a Bush operative in the DC press corps.

16 posted on 02/18/2005 4:10:23 AM PST by johnny7
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To: johnny7

The puppet masters putting this idiot up have had plenty of time to doctor the books.

Still, it's long overdue for all the documents to be published.

Idiot treasonous press.


17 posted on 02/18/2005 4:11:56 AM PST by Quix (HAVING A FORM of GODLINESS but DENYING IT'S POWER. 2 TIM 3:5)
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To: cgbg

It's a fine piece of hardware with some great dedicated submariners on-board. Please do not suggest such a thing.


18 posted on 02/18/2005 4:22:32 AM PST by FreedomPoster (This space intentionally blank)
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To: G.Mason

While I generally agree, don't look a gift horse in the mouth. If we were to finally get the truth out on this, with Russert's help, it would really nail the MSM's credibility and prove to any sentient being their bias.


19 posted on 02/18/2005 4:24:52 AM PST by FreedomPoster (This space intentionally blank)
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub

traitor ping


20 posted on 02/18/2005 4:27:53 AM PST by boxerblues
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To: johnny7

I do wish that Tim Russert would get his butt out of that chair, grab a cameraman and go down to the John Kerry HQ, and ask to see the records. While he is there, he could ask, with camera rolling, where the copy of John Kerry's original discharge is. Surely Kerry does not maintain that he was not discharged from the Navy until 1980.

It would be great television. Russert could edit it down to a 2 minute lede on the next week's MTP. Unless he calls people out when they openly lie to his face, he will not be able to get them to tell the truth on MTP.

Russert has to decide. Does he want to be the conduit for whatever lie his guest wants to tell, or does he want to get at the truth? Right now, Donks can come on his program and just bald-faced lie, and there are no consequences.

You can bet that the next time somebody holds Kerry down and asks him about the Form 180 and his original discharge, he will reference his answer on MTP, as if to say that if he said it to Russert and Russert did not call him on it, it must be true. If Russert allows his reputation to be exploited in this way, he will not have much of a reputation left after a short time.


21 posted on 02/18/2005 4:28:13 AM PST by gridlock (ELIMINATE PERVERSE INCENTIVES)
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To: gridlock

To me and many others, Russert has no reputation to corrupt.


22 posted on 02/18/2005 4:34:22 AM PST by johnny7
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To: johnny7

I just want the truth out! Sunshine please!
(I think Gannongate will turn out to be a dud..it just isn't sexy enough..even with the pictures. He was a nobody)


23 posted on 02/18/2005 4:34:55 AM PST by MEG33 (GOD BLESS OUR ARMED FORCES)
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To: johnny7

Mr. Teresa won't be investigated anytime before 2017, after Shrillary's two terms expires. Actually, the story would make a great movie... oh, we're talking Hollywood, never mind.


24 posted on 02/18/2005 4:41:05 AM PST by mtbopfuyn
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To: cgbg
No. I wouldn't want brave men serving on that. Strike the name and change it!

Change it to reflect courage... not timidity and a lack of conviction.

25 posted on 02/18/2005 4:44:22 AM PST by johnny7
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To: johnny7

"They might (but won't) also ask why Kerry's Silver Star citation was signed by John Lehmen, who wasn't Secretary of the Navy until 8 years later, rather than John Chafee."

There is still the issue of the Combat V which he displays with his Silver Star. Which as I understand was never awarded with a Silver Star. Remember Navy Chief of Naval Operations Boorda who committed suicide over his incorrect display of the Combat V.


26 posted on 02/18/2005 4:47:54 AM PST by spectrout
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To: mtbopfuyn

The MSM will not ask the question to which they already know the answer, and it does not fit their agenda.


27 posted on 02/18/2005 4:48:59 AM PST by Stashiu ( Yeah, I am a Vietnam Vet, not a War Criminal.)
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To: MEG33

together with Victor Davis Hanson & Mark Steyn, Thomas Sowell is one of our modern-day Paladins.


28 posted on 02/18/2005 5:14:54 AM PST by CGVet58 (God has granted us Liberty, and we owe Him Courage in return)
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To: Jaxter
They might (but won't) also ask why Kerry's Silver Star citation was signed by John Lehmen

That bugs the heck out of me to this day. It's simply amazing that one of the great mysteries from the last campaign can be so off the radar of ALL the MSM.

29 posted on 02/18/2005 5:19:45 AM PST by Timeout (Dean & the Bike Path Left: aging anti-warriors who use "summer" as a verb~~Jonah)
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To: Timeout
That bugged the heck out me too. The story was practically already written for any journalist who wanted to pluck it off the net.

There was some serious look the other way crap going on last election. Hopefully that was the last election where thats a factor. That one magazine editor said the press would deliver 15 points for Kerry, and I think they came pretty close. If there weren't so many Pro-Kerry and Con-Bush articles out there, the election would have been a landslide of McGovern (losing) proportions for Kerry.

It was without a doubt a fix, top to bottom for Kerry DD 180 story and others to be hands off. The lame stream media couldn't admit it now because they are so behind the 8 ball already it would crush them. They would never ever be beleived about anything.

The great thing was that in spite of it, and probably alot of votes came just because of it, that enough conservatives saw and recognized the Kerry whitewash and voted to let the lame stream media know weren't buying it.

30 posted on 02/18/2005 5:38:10 AM PST by libs_kma (USA: The land of the Free....Because of the Brave!)
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To: johnny7
Speaking of Gannon/Guckert...

For reasons beyond my control the tube was turned to NBC during Brian Williams broadcast last night. He followed the standard MSM sense of "outrage" that Gannon/Guckert was treated as a "reporter". He then went into a little detail describing with distaste how Gannon/Guckert had been outed by web bloggers for setting up homosexual web sites and posing for a nude picture for a male escort service. The implication was that Gannon/Guckert was a raging homosexual and that this was a bad thing. VERY non-PC for NBC news. But then he went to the next level and talked about the White Houses' failure to properly screen Gannon/Guckert, inductively implying that because of his background (i.e., he is a homosexual) he is a threat to the President and should not get such close access... VERY, VERY non-PC.

Someone needs to call NBC on this action and ask if it is there editorial position that homosexuals pose a threat to the President and should be disqualified from the White House Press Corps. They will of course say absolutely not! At which point the dagger is thrust with... "Then what is your objection to Gannon/Guckert's presence in the briefing room (other than political)?"
31 posted on 02/18/2005 5:42:03 AM PST by RedEyeJack
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To: Timeout

The less than honorable discharge, especially considering his actions (treason), probably resulted in the revocation of the awards too.

When his discharge was upgraded, he probably pursued getting the awards reinstated so he could hang them on the wall of his office.


32 posted on 02/18/2005 5:43:53 AM PST by Stashiu ( Yeah, I am a Vietnam Vet, not a War Criminal.)
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To: Stashiu; All

If Kerry had been arrested, charged with consorting with the enemy, court-martialed, and given a dishonorable discharge during the Nixon administration, he would have worn it as a badge of courage just as he did his phony Purple Hearts and Silver Star. The court-martial would have received more publicity than the OJ trial and he would have come out of it an even bigger hero with the liberal left than he is now.

So, in light of all the crimes that we know he committed, how is it that he was never court-martialed? Just for the sake of conjecture, let’s say maybe he was arrested, charged, court-martialed, and dishonorably discharged, but the proceedings were so embarrassing to him that he would never want the details to be made public. As I have just stated, being found guilty of consorting with the enemy would not be the reason, so what would be?

It has been made public that Kerry was under very close surveillance by law enforcement agencies and possibly the CIA for at least two years. (Yes, the CIA could target U.S. citizens before Jimmy Carter put a stop to it.) If a person with “bad habits” is under close surveillance for an extended period of time, their bad habits will be found out and documented. If Kerry was arrested, charged with treason, it was made clear to him that the evidence of his “bad habit” would come to light during his trial, and he was offered the opportunity to receive leniency if he cooperated, I think a coward like Kerry would have taken the bait.

If Kerry “flipped,” as they say in the law enforcement community, became an informant (rat, snitch, etc etc), informed on his leftist liberal associates, and this information was ever exposed to the public, he would be finished both politically and socially.

Kerry obviously fears the release of his record from this time frame, and it could not possibly have anything to do with his treasonous activity with the communists, so his fear must be based on something else. The only logical explanation as to why Kerry, a documented traitor, was never publicly court-martialed is that a Special Court-Martial was privately convened, Kerry was found guilty, given a less than honorable discharge, his phony medals were revoked, he cooperated with the government prosecutors, and the record of proceedings was never released.

I believe, if Kerry ever signs an SF-180, not only will his less than honorable discharge come to light, but possibly his status as a CIA or FBI informant, and, of course, his “bad habit.” I leave it to your imagination to ascertain what kind of bad habit could possibly embarrass a liberal Democrat like John F. Kerry, but if that bit of information is ever released, I guarantee you it will be enough to gag a maggot.


33 posted on 02/18/2005 5:46:24 AM PST by DJ Taylor (Once again our country is at war, and once again the Democrats have sided with our enemy.)
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To: Timeout
Wake up.

It's all a scam, dude... ain't no 'mystery' anymore.

34 posted on 02/18/2005 5:49:23 AM PST by johnny7
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To: DJ Taylor

"I leave it to your imagination to ascertain what kind of bad habit could possibly embarrass a liberal Democrat like John F. Kerry, but if that bit of information is ever released, I guarantee you it will be enough to gag a maggot."

Is there anything that would embarrass a liberal Democrat?

Hmmmm. Smoking? (cigarettes, not pot)


35 posted on 02/18/2005 5:51:20 AM PST by Stashiu ( Yeah, I am a Vietnam Vet, not a War Criminal.)
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To: LightCrusader

"Is it too late to charge Kerry with war crimes or has the statute of limitations already expired?"

There is no statute of limitations on war crimes.


36 posted on 02/18/2005 5:52:54 AM PST by roaddog727 (The marginal propensity to save is 1 minus the marginal propensity to consume.)
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To: MEG33
"Even after Kerry's widely publicized role as a war hero..."

John Kerry was NO war hero....that is another of the MSM and talking heads myth. John Kerry's time line shows the extent he went to he gathered those medals...he was only in the Vietnam theater 3 months + a few days...he spent a month training for the Swift Boats.

Like Ward Churchill, he falsified his record by word of mouth and the MSM, his rhetoric is very much like his testimony, lies and more lies. Ask your elected to vote against his latest cradle to grave entitlement for children – the United States Constitution does not provide any language for this.

37 posted on 02/18/2005 6:03:19 AM PST by yoe
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To: johnny7
The MSM probably realizes the truth and they don't want to be outed for covering up for Kerry. They have been outed so much recently people with a brain have quit paying attention to them.
38 posted on 02/18/2005 6:04:58 AM PST by gunnedah
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To: johnny7



Separated at birth?
39 posted on 02/18/2005 6:16:29 AM PST by dagoofyfoot
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To: johnny7
Media bias does not consist in having liberal or conservative opinions but in how you do your job -- or don't do it

Key sentence, and what we need to focus on in our activism.

Old media exposed their gate-keeping hypocrisy to too many people when they squashed the whole Kerry record, while trumpeting the false Bush military record.

More and more users of Old Media are waking up every day - a very good thing!

40 posted on 02/18/2005 6:44:01 AM PST by maica (Ask a Dem: "When did promoting Democracy and Freedom in the World become a Bad Thing??")
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To: chainsaw

Should the REAL discharge and not the whitewashed one be revealed and kerry be removed from the senate, should he be allowed the senate retirement?


41 posted on 02/18/2005 6:46:20 AM PST by tillacum
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To: johnny7
The only hope of this breaking into something really big is if Tim Russert feels he was lied to and made a fool!

I wouldn't take that crap Tim!

42 posted on 02/18/2005 7:04:54 AM PST by TexasCajun
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To: johnny7
"However, knowing how the military tends to keep triplicates of anything, this 'white-wash' might just be waiting to be revealed."

I think it will. When the 'rat party and what's left of the MSM wants to take Kerry out of contention in '08. He still thinks he will get another chance but his arrogance has blinded him to the fact that the ABB campaign was it....

43 posted on 02/18/2005 7:15:37 AM PST by eureka! (It will not be safe to vote Democrat for a long, long, time...)
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To: Robert DeLong

No, if it wan't released last fall, it won't be released now. (Unless Hitlery needs it in 2008).


44 posted on 02/18/2005 7:31:07 AM PST by expatpat
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To: LightCrusader

even so...I would love to know if he was striped of his 'real' medals and given a bad report....it just seems so funny to me that he won't sign the 180...if you have nothing to hide, sign the form...


45 posted on 02/18/2005 7:55:57 AM PST by HarleyLady27 (Prayers ease the heavy burdens of the living....)
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To: johnny7; Defender2; Blue Scourge; armyman; Arrowhead1952; darkwing104; txradioguy; Long Cut; ...

"One document whose authenticity is not likely to be questioned by the mainstream media is the honorable discharge on Senator John Kerry's web site. Yet who in the major media has investigated why that honorable discharge is dated during the Carter administration, when Kerry's military service ended years earlier? This is the same media that spent months investigating George W. Bush's military record and, even after key allegations were revealed to be based on forgeries, continued publicizing rumors and innuendoes.

They didn't stop even after the President signed Form 180, opening all his military records to the public.

But who in the major media has asked why John Kerry would need to be issued an honorable discharge during the Carter administration, years after leaving the navy, unless his original discharge was less than honorable?"

Rove Credits Swiftvets With 'Energizing' Bush Vote (Thank You Karl Rove!)

"...Rove recalled that his uncle had done several tours of duty in Vietnam.
I've never been able to think of Colonel Verhi as somebody who would have
'raped and pillaged in a manner reminiscent of Genghis Khan,'"
a reference to Kerry's 1971 Senate testimony where he accused Vietnam veterans
of committing widespread atrocities."

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1345603/posts

Can anyone name 1 so called MAIN Stream Right Wing Media
personality

(we know Russert on tv and Imus on radio from the Left have)

that has asked,

in 2005,

these questions?

"Asked Kerry when he will sign Form 180.

Or why Kerry is still in the US Senate.
This is in violation of
U.S. Constitution Amendment 14 Sec 3

Or when Kerry will set the record straight
on his false testimony in April 71"

BUT he's still attacking President Bush in '05

Kerry Trashes Bush in Baghdad Jan '05

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1315333/posts

Kerry: Bush Still Hiding His Guard Records Feb '05

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1341323/posts


46 posted on 02/18/2005 7:57:23 AM PST by 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub (The US Senate only has 99 legal Senators, and 1 illegal one. U.S. Constitution Amendment 14 Sec 3)
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To: johnny7

Way to go, Dr. Sowell!


47 posted on 02/18/2005 8:00:51 AM PST by doug from upland (Ray Charles --- a great musician and safer driver than Ted Kennedy)
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To: LightCrusader

Did anyone hear on CSPan that Zell Miller will give the SwiftBoat members an award at 8:30 PM tomorrow night????
Yeah and Zell is going to make a speech---wouldn't miss it.


48 posted on 02/18/2005 8:04:36 AM PST by Stormyta
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To: johnny7
This is not about the past or ultimately even about Kerry or Bush. It is about the future of this country. A gullible public learning only what is filtered to them by a biased media is not a hopeful sign for the future of a democracy.

Sowell’s article talks about something that literally drives me crazy and his point about the biased media being a threat to democracy is right on target. We just went through an election where a guy who ran on his military service did not sign the 180 to release all of his military records. Still no one from the media is going to look into this issue.

Should Kerry even become a player again in national politics, the GOP must run ads directly charging Kerry with a dishonorable discharge. Any fallout from this will be negligible if by some chance it is wrong, but the odds are that Kerry’s service was not honorable.

49 posted on 02/18/2005 8:09:01 AM PST by KC_Conspirator (This space outsourced to India)
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub

BTTT!!!!!!!


50 posted on 02/18/2005 8:15:00 AM PST by E.G.C.
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