Posted on 02/18/2005 6:32:03 PM PST by Mr. Silverback
Nicholas Kristof’s recent New York Times columns on sex trafficking in Cambodia drew a lot of reader mail. Many asked, “What about the johns?”—the men who buy the services.
“Why aren’t the men written about?” one reader asked Kristof, “Embarrass them, expose them, not the women.” Kristof responded, “[F]oreign countries just are not going to arrest a lot of the johns, while they could be persuaded to arrest traffickers of young girls.” Okay, of course, we want traffickers arrested. That was the goal of the Trafficking Victims Protection Act that Bill Bennett, Michael Horowitz, and I along with many others fought so hard to get passed.
But another of Kristof’s readers pinpointed a “customer” who can be targeted. “Unfortunately,” he wrote, “our military supports [sex trafficking] by patronizing it around the world. Thus, by proxy, our government payroll contributes to keeping it alive.” It’s a practice we do not like to think about, but it needs to be confronted.
In the current issue of our BreakPoint WorldView magazine—which, by the way, you ought to subscribe to, if you don’t already—Preston Jones, who served in the Navy, describes the military’s lackadaisical attitude toward prostitution. Jones recalled a T-shirt seen in Thailand that read: “Good boys go to heaven. Bad boys go to Pattaya”—a rest-and-recreation site in Thailand famous for prostitution.
“One thing [the] T-shirt failed to mention is the same thing the military’s chaplaincy has failed to mention for decades,” wrote Jones. “It’s the same thing the military brass and senior enlisted men have failed to mention. It’s the same thing medics who pass out condoms fail to mention. It’s the same thing the U.S. government has failed to mention. It’s the same thing our churches, inhabited by veterans who keep the secret, fail to mention. It’s the unmentionable topic among Navy veterans . . . namely, that many of the mysterious Asian prostitutes who tend to our men in uniform are kids, and many of these kids are, basically, slaves.”
One of Kristof’s readers tried to gloss over prostitution in Thailand, saying that for many women there, it’s “voluntary” and a means to marrying Western men. That was the Clinton administration’s reason for not cracking down on the sex trade a few years back. Kristof rightly countered that “while many of the bar girls hope that they’ll [marry], that’s certainly not the typical result. A lot of them end up, if not with AIDS, then suffering from TB, drug addictions, and various STDs, with no savings, dying alone.” That some in our military contribute to this is heartbreaking—and shameful.
We must go after the traffickers, but we can also target the demand for prostitutes. In this case, we can insist that the military change its culture. And that change is in the military’s best interest, says Jones. Prostitution is bad for morale; it destroys the moral authority of chaplains, officers, and senior enlisted men; and it makes deployments for married men all the more dangerous.
And worst of all, it fans anti-Americanism: “There is something incongruous,” writes Jones, “about ambassadors from the world’s greatest democracy capitalizing on the economic desperation of girls in the developing world”—incongruous, indeed, and an outrage that ought to be stopped.
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I just barely skimmed over the article, but we barely have any military in Thailand and Thailand is known the world over for its willing sex workers which is one of that countries main attractions. I really don't see how our military has anything to do with this. Then they say that it fans anti-americanism which is BS. Would our soldiers going to the red light district fan anti-americanism?
This year using a prostitute became a violation of the UCMJ (a crime I guess even where it's legal in Europe , Australia and Nevada). US Forces Korea has a curfew to keep soldiers from using prostitutes. But what's interesting, is since the Navy left the Philippines, prostitution hasn't gone away. The Navy was a drop in the bucket. The sex industry in Manila is supported by Japanese, Chinese, Europeans, Australians and Filipinos themselves (a Filipino Congressman was arrested for having numerous underage girlfriends a few years ago). In Thailand the ships come and go, but the Germans, Japanese, Australians, Swedes and other Europeans are there all year long. If the military stopped visiting those countries, the problem would not go away. Semper Fidelis.
Carrier Task Forces sometimes put in at Bangkock on the way to the Persian Gulf from the West Coast. That's 15,000 horny guys. Arange more civilized ports of call, and the trade will shrink.
SO9
The law isn't suspended in such situations, and if a military member is busted for sex with a child he's going to the brig. I'm ex-Navy and have been in some places so raunchy I couldn't tell every detail and have it believed, including Thailand, but sex with 12-year-olds was never a part of it. Understand that Navy men are husbands and fathers too, and that although I'm sure it happens and is never heard about, other things happen as well and are never heard about, like people being counseled in the engineroom. "Rocks and Shoals" is old Navy but it isn't dead.
Or they go to Pancho Villa's in the Astoria Hotel, Dubai, UAE where it is difficult to consider the throngs of groping Russian "night butterflies" as slaves since they freely travel between Dubai and the CIS regularly.
They work in Dubai for a few months. Go back to Russia and spend their money on crap and then return to Dubai. It was interesting to observe these girls, to say the least.
Ping.
Darling I'll be true to you. Pat Boone
I was in Dubai the summer of '92 4 times with the Indy BG. I couldn't believe what went on there behind the scenes, it only took the Sailors a few hours to figure out where all of the action was. Pancho Villa's was there back in '92, a very popular hangout, lot's of Saudi's there visiting. The CVBG before us had a drunk LCDR driving back to "Fudge" (the airfield), get a flat in Sharjah (spelling?). He ended up spending a week in the local jail. He looked like crap when he got out. A "dry" Emirate reminded me of those dry counties in Kentucky around Fort Knox. I saw that the 85 year old Emir just died there in Abu Dhabi. Semper Fidelis.
...saying that for many women there, it’s “voluntary” and a means to marrying Western men. That was the Clinton administration’s reason for not cracking down on the sex trade...
Just like all of Clinton's 'girlfriends' were voluntary.
You hit it right on the button. I have a very good friend who is Filipina and we have argued on this issue. She thinks it was a good thing for the US military to pull out of Clark and Subic and she cited prostitution as one of the reasons.
I could go on and on about the civilians who were affected, about the inept and corrupt Filipino military---there were just some more jihadi bombings on Valentine´s Day, etc. It seems the monetary aid we give them ends up in the pockets of the corrupt generals while their troops barely have enough rice rations and lack proper equipment.
She had no counter to the argument that prostitution is thriving in the Philippines...in fact they export it. The government is fighting the return of tens of thousands of ¨"japayukis" from Japan who are primarily prostitutes. Japan is trying to comply with trafficking standards but the corrupt Macapagal-Arroyo government only cares about the dollar remittances they send home to prop up the economy instead of fixing things at home. The US has not been in the Philippines in 12 or more years and prostitution continues to thrive.
In Bangkok, Pattaya, Phuket, etc., it is Europeans who are the primary customers of the women there, not Americans.
Bill Bennett? BILL BENNETT???
mote--eye--brother's
log--eye--your own
Oh, and an All the Way! to you, Devil Dawg. Thanx for your service.
It hasn't changed. I was there three times last summer with the USS George Washington (CVN-73). The last time we went to Dubai the CO had "secured" four places that were notorious for prostitution (including Pancho's). Apparently, quite a few shipmates got STDs from having sex with hookers and not using condoms during the previous two port visits. Not our best and brightest so it appears.
Anyways, the Russian hookers were having none of this "secured" business. They all had cell phones! We went to a supposedly "safe" establishment and within 30 minutes the place was crawling with strikingly attractive 20-something year old Russian girls looking to separate a drunken sailor from his hard-earned money. Once word got out where we were drinking, these Russians all called up each other and the jig was up. Oh yeah, all the bars were attached to hotels.
Ahhh... Dubai... Memories (albeit slightly fuzzy ones) to last a lifetime.
Careful: "to secure" a place means different things to different services. An old joke:
One reason the Services have trouble operating jointly is that they don't speak the same language.For example, if you told Navy personnel to "secure a building," they would turn off the lights and lock the doors.
Army personnel would occupy the building so no one could enter.
Marines would assault the building, capture it, and defend it with suppressive fire and close combat.
The Air Force, on the other hand, would take out a three-year lease with an option to buy.
Not by a long shot. The prostitutes are there 365 days a year. How many days is the carrier in port?
Like a previous poster said, the U.S. military pulled out of the Philipines over a decade ago, but the prostitution continues to this day.
If one really wants to reduce asian prostitution, one has to stop the johns from Japan and Germany.
Things never change. You have to wonder when you see the same women in Athens that you see in Naples that you see in ....
A lot of the time we never knew what the next liberty port was. The womenn though, were always there when we pulled in.
So you put undercover people in to plant cameras, take pictures. You don't need pictures of them doing it, just pictures of them entering kiddie brothels. Then you post them with names and addresses on the internet and goose Google to pop them up near the top whenever anything relating to the hometown or their employer is searched. Some people are independant, but most have bosses, boards of directors or family and friends to face.
Do it through an anonymous site, easy enough if you are the government, and no one can pin things down enough to sue.
So9
Were talking about Germans here. You can't shame them, just the opposite will happen. They will email the links to pictures out as ecards.
The only people who are going to stop asian prostitution are the local governments of Thailand and the Philipines. And they like the tourist money too much to do it.
I lived in Taiwan in the 80's. There was an article in the local english paper about prostitution. A Chinese friend argued that there was little prostitution in Taiwan, to which I reminded him that the "Barbershops" were havens for prostitution. At that time there seemed to be a barbershop on every block in downtown Taipei and then some. The American's had long pulled out (no pun intended) of Taiwan at that time.
Hell, that's not an "old joke" at all....it's pretty much accurate!
There was recently a documentary on the History Channel concerning legalized prostitution in Hawaii during WW2. Prices were regulated by the Provost Martial
More likely the trade will move to the "more civilized" ports. It's not called the worlds oldest proffession for nothing you know.
Some of these girls have been to more coutries than I have.
I still keep in touch with a couple of them via e-mail and the occasional phone call. Interesting lot, these Russian girls. They aren't from the big cities, they come from the boonies and most of them were virgins when they arrived in Dubai. They were naive and clever at the same time. Beautiful as well.
They never had any moral problems with what they did. After all, they were raised commie and the State owned their bodies. Plus they didn't even consider it sex as they made "Johns" wear a condom for every thing they did (the STDs I mentioned previously were contracted from Filipino and African workers).
They laughed at Americans puritanical attitudes toward sex. For these Russian girls, it was the most and easiest money they ever made! Then they proceeded to spend it all like rap-stars on laughably tacky clothes and gaudy jewelry and makeup. They had been bitten by the capitalism bug and wanted to dress like they were wealthy.
Re: Your #13: Explain. Please. This oughta be good.
Don't forget that in Nam they were definitely used as Intelligence Collectors and aided and abetted in enemy operations. Hopefully, we need to learn from history, not repeat its mistakes.
um... as my gramps ran a military brothel in North Africa during Deuce, I reckon I'll recuse myself from commenting.
I do know the women in the rural areas of wher my mom is from were real happy that US Navy left there. There are a lot of things that the military used to get away with. Today's military is very different from what it used to be and the prevalent attitude about sex and exactly how much liberty men were taking with young village girls.
I hope they invest some for their retirement.
Colson's wrong about military chaplains. Chaplains have identified and spoken against both prostitution and forced prostitution for years. As a retired chaplain, I can affirm that chaplains work overtime warning our troops.
Additionally, this is something the military has been working on for some time. Very soon, if not already completed, the military will make (has made) engaging in prostitution a crime under the UCMJ.
This was not accomplished in the last week just because someone heard that Colson was writing an article.
In the same way as our professional Army rejected the glamorization of alcohol and tobacco as counter-productive to warrior vitality, so they have rejected prostitution as counter-productive to warrior honor.
That's great news. Thank you.
I'm sorry, I guess I must need to get my eyes checked, because I could have sworn you just called Bill Bennett (a guy who likes to gamble) a hypocrite for opposing sex slavery. Of course, you couldn't possibly have said that, because it would mean you're out of your bloody mind.
My comments when I posted this article myself...;>)
Colson is about 20 years behind the times on this one. You cannot turn on the military TV (AFN) in Korea without getting a warning against engaging in 'human trafficing'. The days when girls were offered to you on the streets are largely gone in Korea - at least, I've gone 8 months without someone soliciting me (could be I'm in my 40s now...but no, they used to solicite everyone). In fact, we were told when inprocessing that VD is far more common among american women on-base than among the 'juicies' downtown.
The american military isn't much of a presence in Thailand these days, and we're not in the Philippines anymore either.
And someone in the military who gets caught using hookers will NOT find sympathy or a blind eye from the chain of command.
This isn't Vietnam, Chuck - the military HAS changed its culture.
"The Navy was a drop in the bucket."
I don't think anyone is saying, or even implying, otherwise. It's just that the writer is urging that this behaviour be activiely discouraged in service men. But, I'm not sure that effort would ever really be successful, quite frankly.
And at the risk of sounding insensitive, I'd have to bet a lot of those women would rather be "hooking up" with a fellow from the US Military that a lot of others who might be "customers".
But, the whole thing is very bad.
Thanks for posting, Mr. Silverback. Without getting into the argument over details, I'll just say how terribly sad it is for everyone.
Technically, sir, it already is punishable under Article 134 of the UCMJ. I do recall reading that attempts are being made to give prostitution offenses a special category under the UCMJ. I do not know how successful the military will be with this.
I agree with you. The new rule will forbid our military from soliciting/utilizing prostitutes. There was even a thread on here a few weeks ago -- a news article -- in which some of the troops were bellyaching over it.
Somehow I get the feeling that making it impossible for a sailer to get laid will create far bigger problems than it solves
Bwahahaha!!! Russian women are not know for their frugal spending habits! Like I said, they spend money like rap stars. It is like a drug to them. They have gone without money for so long and now they make a lot of money very fast and it leaves their pockets as quickly as it left the pockets of the sailors that they provided services to.
Of course, they send some of it home. One girl was earning money to pay her rent in her parents' apartment. Without this, they would have rented out her bedroom and she would have had no place to live. She was saving money to go to University but when I talked to her recently she had spent everything she made on clothes and electronics and was contracted to go to Lebanon where she was awaiting a job as a belly dancer.
Typically, they work for three or four months in the Middle East, return home for a couple of months, blow through their cash, and then return for a few more months of work.
I asked her if she ever is scared of anything. She said no because she gets to pick and choose the guys she works with and that she always makes them wear protection.
BTW, American guys are adored by these women because, according to them, we all have lots of money and treat them very politely. She said Arabs are rough with them and Australians and most Europeans are just plain dirty (not sexually, hygienically).
They all want American husbands and are hoping to land one.
You wouldn't happen to have a link would you? I'd be curious to read about it.
I'd have to search for it. I don't remember the name.
Drew, here it is:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1228494/posts
The title was: Troops say proposed rule change unfair -- prostitution in Germany
Addictions: To each his own.
What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas.
You can't possibly be serious. If you are, say you aren't.
You can't conceivably be drawing any measure of equivalence between legal gambling and sex slavery with minors.
Good lord, man.
Addictions rarely exist alone.
I let my assigned Yeoman (YN2), an NYC guy from Harlem, use my Hotel room in Dubai when I had to make a road trip to Abu Dhabi. When I returned he had an Italian girl who couldn't speak hardly any English there. Good thing I picked up a little Italian growing up in Jersey. She was actually living there in Dubai working full time, but couldn't help wanting to meet non Arab men when the ships were in. She showed us where to cool off, the skating rink!! 12 days was too long in port, we had dozens of liberty incidents, including some airdales who "mooned the Emir" from the pool when he flew over the Intercontinental in his private helo. Semper Fidelis.
Roger that. Just think of the two FBI knuckleheads who gave it up to the Chinese broad in LA. Hookers are always good collectors. I've always used them to gather intel before the ships pull in. Semper Fidelis.
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