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America's Most Dangerous Gang - MS13 - Violent, Vicious, and Spreading Fast.
PoliceMag ^

Posted on 02/20/2005 10:53:56 AM PST by Happy2BMe

America's Most Dangerous Gang
by Shelly Feuer Domash

Spreading from El Salvador to L.A. and across the United States, Mara Salvatrucha 13 is increasingly well organized and deadly.

Within one hour, two people were found murdered miles apart in suburban Nassau County, N.Y. After an intensive investigation, police officials learned the murders were the work of the violent street gang Mara Salvatrucha 13. It also soon became apparent the gang was sending a bold message to its members and associates. That message: “If you are not loyal, you are dead.”

But there was another message in the brutal slayings for the people of Long Island. And that message was that gang violence had moved into the upper middle class enclaves of the Island, into the kinds of communities where the locals assume that crime is somebody else’s problem.

Mara Salvatrucha 13 (MS-13) is unfortunately becoming everybody’s problem. This plague that came to Long Island from El Salvador by way of the streets of Los Angeles follows the same migratory patterns as the Salvadoran immigrant community that it preys upon, fanning out across the United States from ethnic enclaves in California.

Coming Together

Until recently, MS-13 wasn’t that big a player in East Coast gang culture. The reason for its weak position in the East Coast crime world was obvious: It wasn’t very well organized. MS-13 was comprised of a group of cliques that operated independently of each other.

No more. Law enforcement officials now report that gang members from across the country have come together to unite affiliated groups up and down the East Coast. The leadership for these cliques is now coming from as far away as California and even from El Salvador.

Robert Hart, senior agent in charge with the FBI, says that when individual groups of MS-13 unite, the results can be devastating. “The cliques, instead of operating independently of each other, are beginning to come together,” Hart explains. “The difference is by doing that, obviously you have a much tighter organization, much stronger structures and, instead of having various cliques doing whatever they want, wherever they want, there is one individual who is the leader and is able to control the payment of dues and the criminal acts they engage in. The result is very, very similar to what you would see in what we refer to as traditional organized criminal families.”

Finding Sanctuary

Los Angeles and New York law enforcement and even politicians are aware of the impact of MS-13 on their streets and on their crime statistics. So they’ve taken action. The results are usually not stellar, but at least these cities have recognized that MS-13 is a problem. Unfortunately, the leadership of MS-13 is not stupid. Once the heat comes down hard in L.A. and New York, they head for new turf, choosing Midwestern and Southern and suburban cities where gangs “are not an issue” and local officials and authorities are in denial.

And once MS-13 takes hold in a community, it grows fast. The gang reportedly has some 300 members in suburban Long Island. A few years back it didn’t have any.

Once MS-13 shows up on the radar, some local officials and authorities will take action. In Nassau County, for example, a joint gang task force headed by the FBI and comprised of local police departments, has arrested 16 leaders of MS-13. They were charged with two murders, assault, conspiracy, and firearms violations.

Such investigations aren’t easy because MS-13 has a pretty strident zero-tolerance policy toward anyone who informs the cops of their activities.

Court papers reveal that one of the Nassau County defendants was captured in a secretly recorded telephone conversation detailing how he killed a male victim because he had provided law enforcement officials with information and that he had “put one in his chest and three in the head.” In another recorded conversation, a second defendant said he killed a young female because, in part, she had also provided information to law enforcement.

Fighting Back

The senseless violence of MS-13 has shocked the local citizens of Nassau County, so the Nassau County Executive appointed a “gang czar” to deal with the increasing gang problem.

A seasoned, dedicated officer, the new “czar,” in reality, will find it difficult to accomplish what he has been mandated to do. His department, like many across the nation, is at its lowest staffing levels in recent history, and he has been given no additional personnel or resources to combat the problem. The public was placated by the appointment, but while politicians put Band-Aids on deep cuts, the problem continues to escalate on Long Island.

And Long Island is not alone. Nationally, police departments are dealing with the surge in violence emanating from MS-13 members.

In Charlotte, N.C., 53 gang members were arrested as part of Operation Fed Up, which targeted MS-13 members. Officials in the medium-sized Southern city say MS-13 has been involved in at least 11 murders in the Charlotte area since 2000. And with a membership estimated at 200, MS-13 is by far Charlotte’s largest gang.

Some 400 miles north of Charlotte, the northern Virginia and southern Maryland communities around Washington, D.C., have become MS-13 turf. Local authorities estimate that there are between 5,000 and 6,000 MS-13 members in the metropolitan area.

And where MS-13 goes, violence follows. In July 2003, an 18-year-old federal witness was stabbed to death; last May, a 16-year-old boy had his hands almost completely chopped off with a machete; and a week later a 17-year-old was shot and murdered. All three crimes were tied to MS-13 members.

The rapid increase in MS-13 activity along the corridor between Charlotte and D.C. is simply explained by Det. Tim Jolly, a gang specialist with the Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police Department. The area has the nation’s second highest population of Salvadoran immigrants.

Gang of Chameleons

One of the more unusual aspects of MS-13 when compared to other street gangs is that it is extremely flexible in its activity. While some gangs are only into drugs, MS-13 will do any crime at any time.

Sgt. George Norris, supervisor of the gang unit in the Prince George’s County (Md.) Police Department, says MS-13 doesn’t sling drugs in his jurisdiction. “We see mostly citizen robberies, auto theft, shootings and cuttings, and homicides,” he says, adding that drug sales by MS-13 may be just a matter of time.

Violent and Vicious

When MS-13 moves into a new community it tends to announce its presence with violence. The same can be true when a new leader takes over the local cliques.

Norris says gang members from other areas had once been able to join the new gang by simply being “jumped in.” But now that new leaders have moved into Prince George’s County and consolidated the cliques, the gang’s local culture has become more violent and vicious.

“According to one of our informers, things have changed,” says Norris. “Now in order to get your letters or clique [symbols] tattooed on you, you have to also put in some violent act to show your commitment.”

Cop Killers

And MS-13 violence is not restricted to civilians, rival gang members, and clique traitors; the gang will go after cops. Threats against police officers, known to gang members as “green light” notices, have increased so much in the past few years that the Virginia Gang Association has warned officers in Virginia and states to the north and south to be wary of MS-13 members.

Charlotte-Mecklenburg’s Jolly says he is aware of the threats against police officers in his community and in Virginia. Prince George’s County’s Norris says he’s heard them, too. “If you do something to them, their natural response is, ‘OK, I’m going to kill you,’” he says. “Or at least they talk like they will.”

Norris dismisses some of MS-13’s threats, but that doesn’t mean that officers should take all MS-13 threats lightly. The gang is extremely violent and it has attacked and will continue to attack anyone who gets in its way. That includes law enforcement officers.

Roots of Evil

Named for La Mara, a street in San Salvador, and the Salvatrucha guerillas who fought in El Salvador’s bloody civil war, Mara Salvatrucha 13 was organized in Los Angeles in the late ’80s. At first, the gang’s primary purpose was to defend Salvadoran immigrants from being preyed upon by other L.A. street gangs.

But like any other street gang that was created to defend a particular ethnic group, MS-13 was quickly perverted until its primary purpose was preying upon the Salvadoran community. It also violently defends its turf against any other gang that might seek to slice away a piece of its action.

Gang members sometimes wear blue and white, colors taken from the national flag of El Salvador. They can also sport numerous body and even face tattoos. However, some members are much less visible and therefore much more dangerous.

Recent reports indicate that MS-13 has expanded from California to Alaska, Oregon, Utah, Texas, Nevada, Oklahoma, Illinois, Michigan, New York, Maryland, Virginia, Georgia, Washington, D.C., and Florida. The gang has also been exported back to Central America.

Back Home

It’s estimated that there are 36,000 MS-13 members in Honduras alone. In Honduras, according to a March 2004 report prepared by the Washington, D.C.-based, right-wing think tank the Maldon Institute, MS-13 has, with increasing frequency, resorted to leaving a dismembered corpse, complete with a decapitated head, as a calling card. Recently, according to the report, such a grisly message was left with a note for the Honduran president.

The note is supposed to have stated the gang’s displeasure with an August 2003 law that made it illegal to be a part of a gang. Under Honduran law gang leaders can be sentenced to prison for up to 12 years and rank-and-file members from six to nine years, just for being in the gang. A gang member can be arrested for simply having a tattoo.

El Salvador has also launched a crackdown on MS-13. A police offensive called “Operation Strong-arm” has resulted in the arrest of more than 4,000 gang members.

For MS-13, these are small losses. The gang is nothing if not mobile. When it feels heat in the U.S., it moves to another state. When it feels heat in El Salvador and Honduras, it sets up operations in Mexico.

The Maldon Institute report indicates that MS-13 “appears to be in control of much of the Mexican border and, in addition to its smuggling and contraband rackets, the gang collects money from illegal immigrants that it helps [move] across the border into the United States.”

The ultra-conservative Maldon Institute is known for doomsday predictions when it comes to the U.S.-Mexico border. But there can be no denial that MS-13 is very active in smuggling people, drugs, and guns across the border. And independent reports indicate that many illegal immigrants have been assaulted, robbed, and even raped by MS-13 members.

Mexico is now taking steps to fight back against MS-13. In December, Mexican authorities arrested 224 gang members in response to what they called a threat to national security. Among the arrests were members of MS-13 who were charged with trafficking in drugs and firearms across Mexico and Central America.

Illusion of Cooperation

While some of the Central American countries appear to be cracking down on MS-13, serious problems still exist. And they are being missed by politically correct reporters who want to tout U.S.-Latin American cooperation.

For example, on Long Island, the media was quick to cover an agreement between El Salvador and Suffolk County to share information on MS-13. What the local reporters didn’t cover was a much more serious issue. If these gang members commit serious offenses, they can return home, and there is no extradition agreement. And, of course, they are doing so in increasing numbers.

“I would say that between Honduras and El Salvador, there are seven or eight people we are seeking to take into custody,” says Lt. Dennis Farrell, head homicide investigator for the Nassau County Police Department. “Proportionally, if you take that across the country, the numbers are astronomical, the number of people who have probably fled to these two countries.”

Farrell says that two gang members who his detectives are looking to arrest for two separate murders are now living in the same town in El Salvador. He calls the situation extremely frustrating. “You undertake a very in-depth and comprehensive investigation, pursue all possible leads, build a case, essentially conduct a successful investigation, only to have it thwarted by the fact that after having identified the killer or killers, you are unable, under the present international agreements, to return them to Nassau County to face murder charges.

“Even more than that frustration, how about the injustice and sense of desperation on the part of families who have lost loved ones? Where is the measure of justice? There is really no justice for those families, and absent some reworked or new initiative between our state department and those sovereign states, I don’t see any change in this condition in the foreseeable future,” Farrell adds.

In addition to extradition treaties, many gang investigators believe stricter and more uniform laws are needed here in this country. According to Charlotte-Mecklenburg’s Jolly, one of the reasons MS-13 has migrated to the East Coast is the strict anti-gang laws on the West Coast. He also believes that, with the stricter gang laws in Central America, many MS-13 members may be coming back to the United States illegally.

Long Arms

With the number of MS-13 members growing nationwide (some cliques now even accept non-Hispanic members), and the violence escalating, the future for law enforcement appears grim.

“They adapt to what the police do,” says Prince George’s County’s Norris. “They will change the way they operate, depending on the way things are enforced by the police. If there is no enforcement, they will wear their colors and bandanas because in the communities they are in it is common knowledge and the people fear them, so it is a form of intimidation.

“Once the police recognize and confront them, they will change and wear different colors from the blue and white, no bandana on their head, maybe now in their pocket, and instead of the number 13 they will wear 67 or 76 because it equals 13. They adapt so it is a continually evolving thing.”

While the nation focuses on terrorism, the issue of gang violence has taken a lower priority. But to many, the violent acts of MS-13 members are more of an everyday threat that is being overlooked.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption
KEYWORDS: aliens; dhs; gangs; immigration; islam; latinamerica; leo; m13; marasalvatrucha; mexico; ms13; terrorism; turass; wodlist
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To: Logophile

Excuse you!
As a Samoan, tattoos are a part of the culture. Obviously, you'd be too offended to ever come over to my house. LOL!


101 posted on 02/20/2005 12:32:56 PM PST by MoJo2001 (Operation Easter/Passover For Our Troops begins Feb.14th-Mar.4th---www.proudpatriots.org)
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To: dfwgator

Or the Hollywood movies and shows that glorified the Italian mobsters of old?? Or the "Sopranos"? Oh wait! Those are better! Why? Because the Italian mobsters have an "honor" system. </sarcasm>


102 posted on 02/20/2005 12:34:21 PM PST by MoJo2001 (Operation Easter/Passover For Our Troops begins Feb.14th-Mar.4th---www.proudpatriots.org)
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To: Snapple
The boy who had his hands cut off lived near us. Today our tires were stolen. It is the second time our car was vandalized in a few months. The police just left after taking a report.

If you live that close to them, is there any chance that you can move???

103 posted on 02/20/2005 12:37:42 PM PST by SheLion (The America we once knew and loved ........................is gone.)
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To: SheLion

Should we just let gangsters take over?

These kinds of people are everywhere. You have to oppose it.


104 posted on 02/20/2005 12:40:01 PM PST by Snapple
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To: Snapple

true.

but stop and frisk is not a crime. the #1 most effective technique used to achieve the dramatic crime reductions in NYC - was the streets crimes unit stop and frisk techniques. police would simply stop people (yes, based on how they looked and most importantly, which neighboorhood they were out in the street in) and put them up against a wall and frisk them - uncovering weapons, drugs, warrants, etc. it works. it instills fear of the police into these people, and that's what they don't have now. they don't have any fear of the police, and a few midnight basketball sessions by the PBA isn't going to help.


105 posted on 02/20/2005 12:42:23 PM PST by oceanview
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To: Snapple
Should we just let gangsters take over?

These kinds of people are everywhere. You have to oppose it.

Well, I guess I am talking about a small gal who is a widow and living alone.  Without any guns.

You do what you want.  May the Lord have mercy on your Soul and give you strength to fight them!


106 posted on 02/20/2005 12:44:58 PM PST by SheLion (The America we once knew and loved ........................is gone.)
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To: Happy2BMe

LEOs - Federal, State and local - need to make a concerted and coordinated effort to shut these murdering b*st*rds down!


107 posted on 02/20/2005 12:46:25 PM PST by Rummyfan
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To: JarheadFromFlorida
My son went to a boarding school that was heavily populated with the children of rich people from Mexico, Central and South America. We thought of it as an "international" environment--boy, did we sure learn quickly that the culture that these kids brought with them was saturated with sadism and cruelty. These were rich kids whose parents didn't want them hanging around because: (a) they were a pain-in-the-neck to the dad's mistress; (b) they were at risk of being kidnapped because dad was so rich; or, (c) they were at risk because dad was really a drug don and his kids were targets of rival drug kingpins. The rule of the school was that you couldn't carry more than $20 with you--so they carried 20 $100 bills. You weren't supposed to speak anything but English (to improve their skills for "international business"), but they constantly spoke Spanish and bullied those around them into compliance. Worst of all, the punishments they inflicted upon boys who were somehow weaker than they were thoughtfully sadistic and planned with precision.

As a country, we have had a brutal history of conflict between races and ethnicities. However, the absolute evil of these people streaming into the country today will make the horrors of the past look like child's play.

108 posted on 02/20/2005 12:47:15 PM PST by MHT
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To: oceanview

Sounds good to me. They may do that.


109 posted on 02/20/2005 12:48:51 PM PST by Snapple
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To: MHT

That's really interesting.


110 posted on 02/20/2005 12:51:09 PM PST by Snapple
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To: MoJo2001
Excuse you! As a Samoan, tattoos are a part of the culture. Obviously, you'd be too offended to ever come over to my house. LOL!

Fine. But the young people I referred to are not Samoan. Tattoos and body piercing are not part of their culture—if anything, they are a statement against their traditional culture.

When I see middle-class American kids emulating gang members in their clothing, their tattoos, their speech, and their entertainments, I wonder what has gone wrong.
111 posted on 02/20/2005 12:51:52 PM PST by Logophile
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To: Happy2BMe

They are just doing the crimes our local criminals are too lazy to do.


112 posted on 02/20/2005 12:52:50 PM PST by FreedomSurge
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To: Happy2BMe; All
ON THE NET...


Google News Search Term: "MARA SALVATRUCHA" (Read More...)

Google News Search Term: "MS-13" (Read More...)

WTOP.com (AP): Fairfax, Virginia - "MACHETE CONTINUES TO BE WEAPON OF CHOICE FOR GANGS" (January 16, 2005) (Read More...)

ABCnews.go.com (Reuters): Tegucigalpa, Honduras - "HONDURAS BLAMES STREET GANGS FOR BUS MASSACRE" (ARTICLE SNIPPET: "The maras are related to Hispanic gangs in Los Angeles.") (December 25, 2004) (Read More...)
EL-UNIVERSAL.com.mx - Wire services: "MARA GANG WORKING AS HIRED GUNS" (ARTICLE SNIPPET: "The Mara Salvatrucha and MS-18 are Central America's largest and most ruthless street gangs, but crackdowns in Honduras and El Salvador drove much of the gangs' membership into southern Mexico, especially in Chiapas, Veracruz and Oaxaca.") (December 15, 2004) (Read More...)
BROWNSVILLE HERALD.com: "BANGLADESHI'S ARREST PROMPTS CONCERN OVER BORDER SECURITY" by Sergio Chapa (ARTICLE SNIPPET: "Federal court records show Fakhrul Islam, age unknown, was arrested Dec. 4 with 13 other undocumented immigrants as they tried to pass through a wooded area east of Brownsville. The records said a man later identified by Border Patrol agents as a member of the Mara Salvatruchas gang was traveling in the same group as Islam. The Central American gang has alleged links to al-Qaida.") (December 10, 2004) (Read More...)
A Discussion on FREEREPUBLIC.com regarding a BROWNSVILLEHERALD.com article: "MARA GANG MEMBER ARRAIGNED AFTER ATTEMPT TO ENTER BROWNSVILLE" (December 8, 2004) (Read More...)

OFFICER.com (NBC4.com): "THREAT REPORTED AGAINST PRINCE GEORGE'S COUNTY POLICE" (ARTICLE SNIPPET: "PALMER PARK, Md. -- Police officials in Prince George's County, Md., say they are taking a very ominous threat against their officers very seriously. Law enforcement officials say they have received tips indicating that a violent street gang known as MS-13 may be planning to ambush and kill police officers.") (Updated November 12, 2004) (Read More...)
SEATTLEPI.com - SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER (AP): Tegucigalpa, Honduras - "HONDURAN OFFICIAL SAYS AL-QAIDA RECRUITING" (Last Updated October 21, 2004) (Read More...)

WASHINGTON TIMES.com: "AL QAEDA SEEKS TIE TO LOCAL GANGS" by Jerry Seper (September 28, 2004) (Read More...)

FBI.gov - Seeking Information: "ADNAN G. EL SHUKRIJUMAH" (ALIASES: "Adnan G. El Shukri Jumah; Abu Arif; Ja'far Al-Tayar; Jaffar Al-Tayyar; Jafar Tayar; Jaafar Al-Tayyar") (VIEW POSTER. Click Here.)
IanLivingston.com - Focus: "ADAN GULSHAIR EL SHUKRIJUMAH" (Read More...)

FOX NEWS.com (AP): Tegucigalpa, Honduras - "AL QAEDA MAY BE TRYING TO RECRUIT HONDURANS" (August 22, 2004) (Read More...)

113 posted on 02/20/2005 12:53:39 PM PST by Cindy
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To: Happy2BMe
New York has always been run by mob rule..
Its just a different mob.. will take some time before they become official like the current mob.. unless the current mob eliminates them.. Pretty much the same for most big American cities.. Serpico where are you.?.. Oh! thats right hes dead..
114 posted on 02/20/2005 1:00:59 PM PST by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole....)
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To: Logophile

Middle class American kids??

And what does a middle class American kid look like? I'm only asking as a chick who was raised middle class in America. I would love to know.

The ghetto look is just as ugly as the Gothic thing. UGH!


115 posted on 02/20/2005 1:03:11 PM PST by MoJo2001 (Operation Easter/Passover For Our Troops begins Feb.14th-Mar.4th---www.proudpatriots.org)
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To: MoJo2001
The ghetto look is just as ugly as the Gothic thing. UGH!

I agree with you.

The "Gothic thing" is creepy. A morbid fascination with sadomasochism, suicide, vampirism, androgyny, and necrophilia does not strike me as a healthy approach to life.

Whenever I encounter young persons who have adopted either the ghetto look or the Gothic "philosophy," I assume that they have serious problems until proven otherwise.
116 posted on 02/20/2005 1:41:32 PM PST by Logophile
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To: Logophile; MadIvan

...clearing throat...


117 posted on 02/20/2005 1:59:31 PM PST by wardaddy (I don't think Muslims are good for America....just a gut instinct thing.)
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To: Snapple

Since you live in VA, got your CCW permit yet?


118 posted on 02/20/2005 2:20:27 PM PST by helper
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To: helper

What is that, a gun permit?


119 posted on 02/20/2005 2:22:17 PM PST by Snapple
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To: LibKill

Where are the Earps when you need them?


120 posted on 02/20/2005 2:23:04 PM PST by A Navy Vet
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To: LibKill
"This needs the old west treatment. Declare all members outlaws who may be killed on sight. No rewards, but no punishment."

The politicians and bureaucrats don't have the cojones to handle this. The cops don't want citizens taking the law into their own hands. I'll almost guarantee you that if it gets bad enough people will step up to the plate and these scum will start disappearing. It won't start in the large cities but in the smaller towns and rural areas first. People are scared of these punks because they are incredibly violent. They are violent because for the most part they are low IQ trash and no one has stood up to them yet.
121 posted on 02/20/2005 2:24:02 PM PST by dljordan
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To: Happy2BMe
Mara Salvatrucha 13 (MS-13) is unfortunately becoming everybody’s problem. This plague that came to Long Island from El Salvador by way of the streets of Los Angeles follows the same migratory patterns as the Salvadoran immigrant community that it preys upon, fanning out across the United States from ethnic enclaves in California.

Well, not ALL of them "fanned out" across the U.S. I've seen guys who look like this one all over L.A. County.

Can someone tell me WHY these gangsters are allowed to remain in America??? I doubt that any of them applied for citizenship.

122 posted on 02/20/2005 2:49:17 PM PST by janetgreen (America needs REAL immigration reform, NOT more "guestworkers".)
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To: Snapple; Travis McGee; wardaddy

Very good points snapple.....your DC chapters are alledged to be the largest in the nation yet your post about the smarter ones is key.

The really dangerous ones can be in brooks brothers camo....

Some links I use:

http://www.knowgangs.com/gang_resources/ms/ms_001.htm

http://www.nagia.org/mara_salvatrucha.htm

http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=68615

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mara_Salvatrucha_(MS,_MS-13)

http://www.policemag.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1228

http://www.fiscalstudy.com/2004-global-photo/36-mara-salvatrucha-gang-in-san-salvador.php

http://www.answers.com/topic/mara-salvatrucha

http://www.stratfor.com/seo/Story.neo?storyId=238334

http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/runforyourlife/journey4.html

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1314357/posts


123 posted on 02/20/2005 2:50:20 PM PST by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet. ©)
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To: MHT

What was the name of the school?


124 posted on 02/20/2005 2:50:27 PM PST by VMI70
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To: Snapple
I work less than a mile from the theater where the machete incident occurred. This gang is nothing more than a bunch of terrorists. They deserve the same fate.
125 posted on 02/20/2005 3:23:29 PM PST by FairfaxVA (SELECT * FROM liberals WHERE clue > 0. Zero rows returned!)
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To: Happy2BMe
Within a few years, it will be commonplace for law enforcement to simply 'eliminate' their adversaries, as opposed to having to deal with the court systems. Adaptation to a virulent opponent is natural selection on a societal level. Once gangs declare open season on all citizens, there is no alternatives left to consider.
126 posted on 02/20/2005 3:36:37 PM PST by Thumper1960 ("It is true that liberty is precious; so precious that it must be carefully rationed."-V.I.Lenin)
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To: Chef Dajuan

Don't forget the Jewish mafia too. They are, in fact, the modern day mafia. Sometimes misnamed as the Russian mafia, most of them are Jewish emigres to the US. Most casino's in the nation are controlled by these thugs. They're very vicious and deadly as the M13 gang members.


127 posted on 02/20/2005 3:57:43 PM PST by TheBrotherhood ("cupido capere et videri gravis" or somesuch.)
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To: Happy2BMe

Shot on sight.


128 posted on 02/20/2005 4:03:38 PM PST by mlmr (The Majority of the Murders Committed Worldwide have been Committed by Leftist Governments..........)
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To: Snapple
Yes, it allows concealed carry of a handgun. VA is a right to carry state. Go to the Virginia State Police web site for a application package. The package is free, the application fee is $100.00 for a 5 year permit.

VA also will give permits to out of state residents, same package and price.
129 posted on 02/20/2005 4:09:45 PM PST by helper
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To: TheBrotherhood

Haha, never heard of a Jewish mofia. Almost sounds like something from Family Guy.


130 posted on 02/20/2005 4:13:04 PM PST by Free and Armed
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To: Happy2BMe
thanks pres bush, clinton and bush for years and years of letting the scum of the earth in... You all sit in the big house with bodyguards while the thuggish trash you let in terrorizes citizens who pay your salaries... Disgraceful!
131 posted on 02/20/2005 4:28:45 PM PST by aspiring.hillbilly
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To: Happy2BMe

Are you trying to scare people with the truth?

It doesn't work on FR. The President wants the borders wide open.


132 posted on 02/20/2005 4:36:22 PM PST by B4Ranch (Over-reliance on experience leads to making the same mistakes with increasing levels of confidence.)
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To: oceanview

You are talking about profiling! Shame on you!


133 posted on 02/20/2005 4:43:09 PM PST by B4Ranch (Over-reliance on experience leads to making the same mistakes with increasing levels of confidence.)
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To: helper

I think I am too emotional to be responsible with a gun.


134 posted on 02/20/2005 5:21:00 PM PST by Snapple
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To: Snapple

Snapple....please, go to a gun store. Take private lessons. I GUARANTEE you, you'll do just fine.


135 posted on 02/20/2005 5:50:08 PM PST by Bradís Gramma (aitch tee tee pea colon 2 slashes dubya dubya dubya dot proud patriots dot org)
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To: DoughtyOne; Snapple; AmericanInTokyo; HiJinx; All
It is our duty to mar or paint over gang grafitti wherever it pops up. I've obliterated three sites in Nashville so far and watch for "reestablishing". So far the punks seem to be confounded that people will fight back.

These messages read like gibberish (even in Spanish) but all had the number 13 prominent in the message. It's our neighborhoods, not their "yards".

136 posted on 02/20/2005 5:52:02 PM PST by NewRomeTacitus (Unrepentent politically-incorrect Nativist who believes America comes first)
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To: NewRomeTacitus

Good for you.

Watch your back. I mean it.


137 posted on 02/20/2005 6:00:55 PM PST by DoughtyOne (US socialist liberalism would be dead without the help of politicians who claim to be conservative.)
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To: hosepipe
Serpico where are you.?.. Oh! thats right hes dead.

I think you're wrong on that one - I saw Frank Serpico was an executive producer of a 2005 film just last week and was glad to see he was still kicking.

138 posted on 02/20/2005 6:05:13 PM PST by NewRomeTacitus (Unrepentent politically-incorrect Nativist who believes America comes first)
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To: DoughtyOne

Heh heh. Like that wrestling boy John Cena says, "They can't see me." Thank you for the warning. I know those scum would love to catch me, but do they know how much I'd love to catch them?


139 posted on 02/20/2005 6:11:23 PM PST by NewRomeTacitus (Unrepentent politically-incorrect Nativist who believes America comes first)
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To: Snapple

Perhaps, but I found carrying made me more responsible and think rather than respond to emotions.

It's also something you don't have to do 24/7, you might like to go out on a nice evening walk, or have to go to the drug store at midnight.

Otherwise, you can continue to live in fear of MS13 or some other gang.


140 posted on 02/20/2005 6:14:20 PM PST by helper
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To: B4Ranch
I first started hearing about 'M13' last June when I was visiting just north of Richmond, VA.

M13 had started their wide use of machetes in broad daylight against their victims.

I believe machetes are now illegal in Virginia.

141 posted on 02/20/2005 6:53:17 PM PST by Happy2BMe (Long ago and far, far away there once was a shining land they called "America" . . .)
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To: Chef Dajuan
"I don't think the Gambinos, Colombos, Genoveses, etc. will stand for this very long...do you?"

=======================================

It doesn't matter. The illegal invasion dwarfs anything 'The Family' ever dreamed of becoming.

Period.

142 posted on 02/20/2005 6:59:21 PM PST by Happy2BMe (Long ago and far, far away there once was a shining land they called "America" . . .)
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To: MoJo2001
"Continued prayers for our country. We need it more than ever. "

==========================================

Amen.

143 posted on 02/20/2005 7:00:48 PM PST by Happy2BMe (Long ago and far, far away there once was a shining land they called "America" . . .)
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To: Tuba Guy
You can see the demons just crawling all over these animals . .


144 posted on 02/20/2005 7:03:46 PM PST by Happy2BMe (Long ago and far, far away there once was a shining land they called "America" . . .)
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To: who knows what evil?
"These savages are more of a threat to Americans than RECRUITING al-Qaeda among their ranks could ever hope to be, and should be dealt with swiftly and harshly."
145 posted on 02/20/2005 7:05:36 PM PST by Happy2BMe (Long ago and far, far away there once was a shining land they called "America" . . .)
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To: Happy2BMe

This is really getting frightening and our prisons are already overcrowded. In my medium sized town of 65 thousand in Texas, we have many Mexican gangs. This past year we were rated either 14th or 18th in high crime rate!!


146 posted on 02/20/2005 7:25:19 PM PST by potlatch (Always remember you're unique. Just like everyone else.)
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To: SheLion

Thanks for the ping!


147 posted on 02/20/2005 8:08:19 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Happy2BMe

Actually I find there is a huge gulf between a criminal cult that worships money and a pseudo-religious one that regards money as a mere tool to fight we "unbelievers". If our alphabet agencies ignore this the scum may come to agree, but infiltrating and magnifying the differences could possibly save many thousands of lives.


148 posted on 02/20/2005 8:16:34 PM PST by NewRomeTacitus (Unrepentent politically-incorrect Nativist who believes America comes first)
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To: Happy2BMe

Bump for later.


149 posted on 02/20/2005 8:48:38 PM PST by Colorado Buckeye (It's the culture stupid!)
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To: HiJinx

bttt


150 posted on 02/20/2005 10:27:40 PM PST by lainde ( ...we are not European, we are American, and we have different principles!")
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