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America's Most Dangerous Gang - MS13 - Violent, Vicious, and Spreading Fast.
PoliceMag ^

Posted on 02/20/2005 10:53:56 AM PST by Happy2BMe

America's Most Dangerous Gang
by Shelly Feuer Domash

Spreading from El Salvador to L.A. and across the United States, Mara Salvatrucha 13 is increasingly well organized and deadly.

Within one hour, two people were found murdered miles apart in suburban Nassau County, N.Y. After an intensive investigation, police officials learned the murders were the work of the violent street gang Mara Salvatrucha 13. It also soon became apparent the gang was sending a bold message to its members and associates. That message: “If you are not loyal, you are dead.”

But there was another message in the brutal slayings for the people of Long Island. And that message was that gang violence had moved into the upper middle class enclaves of the Island, into the kinds of communities where the locals assume that crime is somebody else’s problem.

Mara Salvatrucha 13 (MS-13) is unfortunately becoming everybody’s problem. This plague that came to Long Island from El Salvador by way of the streets of Los Angeles follows the same migratory patterns as the Salvadoran immigrant community that it preys upon, fanning out across the United States from ethnic enclaves in California.

Coming Together

Until recently, MS-13 wasn’t that big a player in East Coast gang culture. The reason for its weak position in the East Coast crime world was obvious: It wasn’t very well organized. MS-13 was comprised of a group of cliques that operated independently of each other.

No more. Law enforcement officials now report that gang members from across the country have come together to unite affiliated groups up and down the East Coast. The leadership for these cliques is now coming from as far away as California and even from El Salvador.

Robert Hart, senior agent in charge with the FBI, says that when individual groups of MS-13 unite, the results can be devastating. “The cliques, instead of operating independently of each other, are beginning to come together,” Hart explains. “The difference is by doing that, obviously you have a much tighter organization, much stronger structures and, instead of having various cliques doing whatever they want, wherever they want, there is one individual who is the leader and is able to control the payment of dues and the criminal acts they engage in. The result is very, very similar to what you would see in what we refer to as traditional organized criminal families.”

Finding Sanctuary

Los Angeles and New York law enforcement and even politicians are aware of the impact of MS-13 on their streets and on their crime statistics. So they’ve taken action. The results are usually not stellar, but at least these cities have recognized that MS-13 is a problem. Unfortunately, the leadership of MS-13 is not stupid. Once the heat comes down hard in L.A. and New York, they head for new turf, choosing Midwestern and Southern and suburban cities where gangs “are not an issue” and local officials and authorities are in denial.

And once MS-13 takes hold in a community, it grows fast. The gang reportedly has some 300 members in suburban Long Island. A few years back it didn’t have any.

Once MS-13 shows up on the radar, some local officials and authorities will take action. In Nassau County, for example, a joint gang task force headed by the FBI and comprised of local police departments, has arrested 16 leaders of MS-13. They were charged with two murders, assault, conspiracy, and firearms violations.

Such investigations aren’t easy because MS-13 has a pretty strident zero-tolerance policy toward anyone who informs the cops of their activities.

Court papers reveal that one of the Nassau County defendants was captured in a secretly recorded telephone conversation detailing how he killed a male victim because he had provided law enforcement officials with information and that he had “put one in his chest and three in the head.” In another recorded conversation, a second defendant said he killed a young female because, in part, she had also provided information to law enforcement.

Fighting Back

The senseless violence of MS-13 has shocked the local citizens of Nassau County, so the Nassau County Executive appointed a “gang czar” to deal with the increasing gang problem.

A seasoned, dedicated officer, the new “czar,” in reality, will find it difficult to accomplish what he has been mandated to do. His department, like many across the nation, is at its lowest staffing levels in recent history, and he has been given no additional personnel or resources to combat the problem. The public was placated by the appointment, but while politicians put Band-Aids on deep cuts, the problem continues to escalate on Long Island.

And Long Island is not alone. Nationally, police departments are dealing with the surge in violence emanating from MS-13 members.

In Charlotte, N.C., 53 gang members were arrested as part of Operation Fed Up, which targeted MS-13 members. Officials in the medium-sized Southern city say MS-13 has been involved in at least 11 murders in the Charlotte area since 2000. And with a membership estimated at 200, MS-13 is by far Charlotte’s largest gang.

Some 400 miles north of Charlotte, the northern Virginia and southern Maryland communities around Washington, D.C., have become MS-13 turf. Local authorities estimate that there are between 5,000 and 6,000 MS-13 members in the metropolitan area.

And where MS-13 goes, violence follows. In July 2003, an 18-year-old federal witness was stabbed to death; last May, a 16-year-old boy had his hands almost completely chopped off with a machete; and a week later a 17-year-old was shot and murdered. All three crimes were tied to MS-13 members.

The rapid increase in MS-13 activity along the corridor between Charlotte and D.C. is simply explained by Det. Tim Jolly, a gang specialist with the Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police Department. The area has the nation’s second highest population of Salvadoran immigrants.

Gang of Chameleons

One of the more unusual aspects of MS-13 when compared to other street gangs is that it is extremely flexible in its activity. While some gangs are only into drugs, MS-13 will do any crime at any time.

Sgt. George Norris, supervisor of the gang unit in the Prince George’s County (Md.) Police Department, says MS-13 doesn’t sling drugs in his jurisdiction. “We see mostly citizen robberies, auto theft, shootings and cuttings, and homicides,” he says, adding that drug sales by MS-13 may be just a matter of time.

Violent and Vicious

When MS-13 moves into a new community it tends to announce its presence with violence. The same can be true when a new leader takes over the local cliques.

Norris says gang members from other areas had once been able to join the new gang by simply being “jumped in.” But now that new leaders have moved into Prince George’s County and consolidated the cliques, the gang’s local culture has become more violent and vicious.

“According to one of our informers, things have changed,” says Norris. “Now in order to get your letters or clique [symbols] tattooed on you, you have to also put in some violent act to show your commitment.”

Cop Killers

And MS-13 violence is not restricted to civilians, rival gang members, and clique traitors; the gang will go after cops. Threats against police officers, known to gang members as “green light” notices, have increased so much in the past few years that the Virginia Gang Association has warned officers in Virginia and states to the north and south to be wary of MS-13 members.

Charlotte-Mecklenburg’s Jolly says he is aware of the threats against police officers in his community and in Virginia. Prince George’s County’s Norris says he’s heard them, too. “If you do something to them, their natural response is, ‘OK, I’m going to kill you,’” he says. “Or at least they talk like they will.”

Norris dismisses some of MS-13’s threats, but that doesn’t mean that officers should take all MS-13 threats lightly. The gang is extremely violent and it has attacked and will continue to attack anyone who gets in its way. That includes law enforcement officers.

Roots of Evil

Named for La Mara, a street in San Salvador, and the Salvatrucha guerillas who fought in El Salvador’s bloody civil war, Mara Salvatrucha 13 was organized in Los Angeles in the late ’80s. At first, the gang’s primary purpose was to defend Salvadoran immigrants from being preyed upon by other L.A. street gangs.

But like any other street gang that was created to defend a particular ethnic group, MS-13 was quickly perverted until its primary purpose was preying upon the Salvadoran community. It also violently defends its turf against any other gang that might seek to slice away a piece of its action.

Gang members sometimes wear blue and white, colors taken from the national flag of El Salvador. They can also sport numerous body and even face tattoos. However, some members are much less visible and therefore much more dangerous.

Recent reports indicate that MS-13 has expanded from California to Alaska, Oregon, Utah, Texas, Nevada, Oklahoma, Illinois, Michigan, New York, Maryland, Virginia, Georgia, Washington, D.C., and Florida. The gang has also been exported back to Central America.

Back Home

It’s estimated that there are 36,000 MS-13 members in Honduras alone. In Honduras, according to a March 2004 report prepared by the Washington, D.C.-based, right-wing think tank the Maldon Institute, MS-13 has, with increasing frequency, resorted to leaving a dismembered corpse, complete with a decapitated head, as a calling card. Recently, according to the report, such a grisly message was left with a note for the Honduran president.

The note is supposed to have stated the gang’s displeasure with an August 2003 law that made it illegal to be a part of a gang. Under Honduran law gang leaders can be sentenced to prison for up to 12 years and rank-and-file members from six to nine years, just for being in the gang. A gang member can be arrested for simply having a tattoo.

El Salvador has also launched a crackdown on MS-13. A police offensive called “Operation Strong-arm” has resulted in the arrest of more than 4,000 gang members.

For MS-13, these are small losses. The gang is nothing if not mobile. When it feels heat in the U.S., it moves to another state. When it feels heat in El Salvador and Honduras, it sets up operations in Mexico.

The Maldon Institute report indicates that MS-13 “appears to be in control of much of the Mexican border and, in addition to its smuggling and contraband rackets, the gang collects money from illegal immigrants that it helps [move] across the border into the United States.”

The ultra-conservative Maldon Institute is known for doomsday predictions when it comes to the U.S.-Mexico border. But there can be no denial that MS-13 is very active in smuggling people, drugs, and guns across the border. And independent reports indicate that many illegal immigrants have been assaulted, robbed, and even raped by MS-13 members.

Mexico is now taking steps to fight back against MS-13. In December, Mexican authorities arrested 224 gang members in response to what they called a threat to national security. Among the arrests were members of MS-13 who were charged with trafficking in drugs and firearms across Mexico and Central America.

Illusion of Cooperation

While some of the Central American countries appear to be cracking down on MS-13, serious problems still exist. And they are being missed by politically correct reporters who want to tout U.S.-Latin American cooperation.

For example, on Long Island, the media was quick to cover an agreement between El Salvador and Suffolk County to share information on MS-13. What the local reporters didn’t cover was a much more serious issue. If these gang members commit serious offenses, they can return home, and there is no extradition agreement. And, of course, they are doing so in increasing numbers.

“I would say that between Honduras and El Salvador, there are seven or eight people we are seeking to take into custody,” says Lt. Dennis Farrell, head homicide investigator for the Nassau County Police Department. “Proportionally, if you take that across the country, the numbers are astronomical, the number of people who have probably fled to these two countries.”

Farrell says that two gang members who his detectives are looking to arrest for two separate murders are now living in the same town in El Salvador. He calls the situation extremely frustrating. “You undertake a very in-depth and comprehensive investigation, pursue all possible leads, build a case, essentially conduct a successful investigation, only to have it thwarted by the fact that after having identified the killer or killers, you are unable, under the present international agreements, to return them to Nassau County to face murder charges.

“Even more than that frustration, how about the injustice and sense of desperation on the part of families who have lost loved ones? Where is the measure of justice? There is really no justice for those families, and absent some reworked or new initiative between our state department and those sovereign states, I don’t see any change in this condition in the foreseeable future,” Farrell adds.

In addition to extradition treaties, many gang investigators believe stricter and more uniform laws are needed here in this country. According to Charlotte-Mecklenburg’s Jolly, one of the reasons MS-13 has migrated to the East Coast is the strict anti-gang laws on the West Coast. He also believes that, with the stricter gang laws in Central America, many MS-13 members may be coming back to the United States illegally.

Long Arms

With the number of MS-13 members growing nationwide (some cliques now even accept non-Hispanic members), and the violence escalating, the future for law enforcement appears grim.

“They adapt to what the police do,” says Prince George’s County’s Norris. “They will change the way they operate, depending on the way things are enforced by the police. If there is no enforcement, they will wear their colors and bandanas because in the communities they are in it is common knowledge and the people fear them, so it is a form of intimidation.

“Once the police recognize and confront them, they will change and wear different colors from the blue and white, no bandana on their head, maybe now in their pocket, and instead of the number 13 they will wear 67 or 76 because it equals 13. They adapt so it is a continually evolving thing.”

While the nation focuses on terrorism, the issue of gang violence has taken a lower priority. But to many, the violent acts of MS-13 members are more of an everyday threat that is being overlooked.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption
KEYWORDS: aliens; dhs; gangs; immigration; islam; latinamerica; leo; m13; marasalvatrucha; mexico; ms13; terrorism; turass; wodlist
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To: Happy2BMe

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A36676-2005Feb18.html

Murder Trial Offers a Rare Look at Gang
Expert Witness Describes Lives Filled With Violence

By Ruben Castaneda
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, February 20, 2005; Page LZ16

A member of the Fairfax County police gang unit testified at a recent murder trial in Prince George's Circuit Court and offered a rare glimpse into the workings of Mara Salvatrucha, or MS-13, the Latino gang with an estimated 3,000 members in Northern Virginia.

(snip)


51 posted on 02/20/2005 11:50:40 AM PST by maggief
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To: Happy2BMe

We don't have an illegal immigration problem. Washington tells us so.


52 posted on 02/20/2005 11:51:04 AM PST by international american (Tagline now fireproof....purchased from "Conspiracy Guy Custom Taglines"LLC)
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To: AmericanInTokyo

No. It is a big problem and it is going to get worse before it gets better because it is hard to catch them and prosecute them. People don't want to testify.

It is like the terrorism. It will get worse until we get good at fighting it. But our police are trying.


53 posted on 02/20/2005 11:51:09 AM PST by Snapple
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To: MoJo2001
My Samoan side of the family has lost 4 boys to gangs.

Oh, MoJo, you know it, I know it, so many of our FReeper friends know it...

When is the human toll going to make a difference in the hallowed halls of Washington?

54 posted on 02/20/2005 11:51:30 AM PST by HiJinx (www .ProudPatriots.org ~ Operation Easter/Passover ~ February 15 - March 4, 2005)
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To: Chef Dajuan

that "mob" only exists in hollywood movies now. its all but gone from the drug business.


55 posted on 02/20/2005 11:51:51 AM PST by oceanview
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To: Chef Dajuan

No such thing anymore...except for internet porn and credit card scams. That's their new biz.


56 posted on 02/20/2005 11:52:50 AM PST by cyborg (http://mentalmumblings.blogspot.com/)
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To: Joe 6-pack; Happy2BMe
celebrating diversity ......

..... the MS 13 way

____________________________________

57 posted on 02/20/2005 11:53:30 AM PST by Tuba Guy (dhimmitude - live it .......... or fight it)
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To: dfwgator

"But they're only here to work." (gag)

Our diversity is our stench, taking us from the melting pot to the chamber pot.


58 posted on 02/20/2005 11:53:56 AM PST by broadsword (You don't deal with a cancer by only dealing with the cells that are painful. Cut them ALL out!)
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To: AmericanInTokyo

Hey, it wouldn't be the first time.

We enlisted the mob to keep East Coast ports free of sabotage during WW2, and Luciano and Genovese aided with the invasion of Sicily by getting messages to their friends in Palermo to assist US Army personnel and harass the Fascisti and the Nazis.

Didn't we also try and contract out to Sam Giancana a plot to have Fidel whacked?


59 posted on 02/20/2005 11:54:03 AM PST by Chef Dajuan (this ain't rocket science, you know. so use your knob! -emeril lagasse)
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To: Snapple
But our police are trying.

That's the problem, we need the Marines, not the police to take care of this problem.

60 posted on 02/20/2005 11:54:28 AM PST by dfwgator (It's sad that the news media treats Michael Jackson better than our military.)
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To: Rome2000
And ya think these gangs move to these areas because exactly this reason. I do.
61 posted on 02/20/2005 11:55:45 AM PST by ezoeni
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To: Snapple

Rudy Giulinai reduced crime and the murder rate in NYC by dramatic levels - not through "prosecution" and "testimony" - but with aggressive policing. the police are not on offense in these sleepy suburbs like Fairfax and Nassau County. if you call them, they come and take the report, otherwise they write traffic tickets all day for the most part.

you need aggressive policing to make a dent in this - shake em down, bust them, stop them in the street and frisk them, and if they pull a gun - shoot a couple of them.


62 posted on 02/20/2005 11:56:06 AM PST by oceanview
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To: dfwgator

Get real. What are you going to do, blow up the high school? Pizza Hut? The Safeway?

You have to have evidence.

You have to educate the community and the kids.


63 posted on 02/20/2005 11:56:58 AM PST by Snapple
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To: Paul_Denton
Second amendment yea, right, try carrying a hand gun without all the proper government paper, paying all the government fees, having an government approved gun and government approved amuntinsion. And only at government approve places. The second amendment is dead.
64 posted on 02/20/2005 11:56:59 AM PST by jpsb
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To: international american

Just doing the crimes native Americans won't do.


65 posted on 02/20/2005 11:58:13 AM PST by jpsb
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To: Happy2BMe

With tats like that,they can't be to hard to spot.


66 posted on 02/20/2005 11:59:03 AM PST by thombo
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To: oceanview

Let me tell you something. We have Al Qaeda cells here. The police are working with the FBI and the Homeland Security. I live 5 minutes from the Pentagon.

They are not writing tickets all day. They are spying on everything.


67 posted on 02/20/2005 11:59:41 AM PST by Snapple
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To: AmericanInTokyo

Great tagline.


68 posted on 02/20/2005 11:59:52 AM PST by international american (Tagline now fireproof....purchased from "Conspiracy Guy Custom Taglines"LLC)
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To: thombo

The smarter ones don't wear the tatoos or the blue and white clothes. You can't go by that.


69 posted on 02/20/2005 12:00:32 PM PST by Snapple
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To: Happy2BMe

MS-13 is flooding into New England...they are all over the north shore of Boston. These savages are more of a threat to Americans than al-Qaeda could ever hope to be, and should be dealt with swiftly and harshly.


70 posted on 02/20/2005 12:00:54 PM PST by who knows what evil? (If arrogance was beauty, New England women would be supermodels!)
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To: Snapple

the average beat cop is not hunting Al Qaeda all day. a few of them might be, perhaps more because of your proximity to the Pentagon. But I can assure you, on long island, they aren't battling terrorism.


71 posted on 02/20/2005 12:02:02 PM PST by oceanview
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To: oceanview

http://www.co.fairfax.va.us/ps/police/police31.htm

Gang education.


72 posted on 02/20/2005 12:02:37 PM PST by Snapple
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To: All
As our Republican local morning conservative talk show hosts says, "Stop the knuckle-dragging pot and pan banging antics like Move America Forward's "Hold Their Feet to the Fire" ILLEGAL immigration protests in Washington, D.C. this coming April. Give the President's Guest Workers a chance."

Surely even the "cheap" labor mainline Republicans will allow citizens to express opposition to this gang. The Rats won't but is "cheap" labor that important to these commerce-above-all-else neo-Rockefeller Republicans?

A little sarcasm but what say the immigrant "rights" industry. Is it screaming Xenophobes!

73 posted on 02/20/2005 12:04:20 PM PST by WilliamofCarmichael (MSM Fraudcasters are skid marks on journalism's clean shorts.)
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To: oceanview

http://www.co.fairfax.va.us/news/2005/05042.htm

See this about an upcoming Gang Summit.

Well, we are fighting gangs and it is in the papers that this Salvadorian gang was seen with Al Qaeda. They are on it in Fairfax.

What you are reading about it is probably coming from the Fairfax Police.


74 posted on 02/20/2005 12:05:49 PM PST by Snapple
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To: oceanview

I say any member of gang like M13- gets a one-way ticket to Gitmo with the other terrorists.


75 posted on 02/20/2005 12:06:11 PM PST by dfwgator (It's sad that the news media treats Michael Jackson better than our military.)
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To: HiJinx

eeeeEE-YUP!


76 posted on 02/20/2005 12:07:43 PM PST by SandRat (Duty, Honor, Country. What else needs to be said?)
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To: oceanview

Fairfax County Office of Public Affairs
12000 Government Center Parkway, Suite 551
Fairfax, VA 22035-0065
703-324-3187, TTY 703-324-2935, FAX 703-324-2010

Feb. 10, 2005

Fairfax County Gang Prevention
Summit Will Be Held on Friday, Feb. 25
On Friday, Feb. 25, community groups, elected officials and county government employees will converge on the Fairfax County Government Center to discuss gang prevention, intervention and suppression. This summit will focus on coordinating existing gang prevention and intervention efforts between county government, schools and community groups.

Sponsored by the Fairfax County Council on Gang Prevention, the talks will be structured around a recommended gang-prevention model. This model, created by the U.S. Department of Justice, offers a structure for coordinating prevention and intervention programs by government and community groups. While other jurisdictions across the country use this model, Fairfax County is one of the first in the region to use it.

Fairfax County Board of Supervisors Chairman Gerald E. Connolly, Fairfax County Police Chief David Rohrer, and Fairfax County Public School Superintendent Jack Dale, Ph.D., will address participants. These officials will highlight the county’s and public schools’ prevention and intervention efforts and the current gang situation.

“Fairfax County is one of the safest communities in the nation. The presence of gangs in our region is the one cloud on the horizon,” said Connolly, who considers the issue one of his top priorities. “Gang prevention is a law enforcement issue, but it is not just a law enforcement issue. We need coordinated, community-based prevention and intervention efforts — and that’s the purpose of this summit. We’re bringing together residents, community organizations and government agencies — many of whom have programs already in place — to talk to each other, coordinate resources and attack this problem from all directions.”

The summit, which will run will held from 8:30 a.m. – 12:30 p.m., is open to members of the public and the media. However, because of space limitations, those interested in participating are requested to register online by Friday, Feb. 18. Visit www.fairfaxcounty.gov/gangprevention/summit.htm to register, or to get more information about the summit. For reasonable ADA accommodations, please contact Captain Amy Lubas at 703-324-8786, TTY 711.

The model presented at the summit is based upon social science research into why youth join gangs. Created by the federal Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention, the model is established on the idea that no single program can end gang violence. Therefore, it addresses prevention, intervention and suppression. Five interrelated components are outlined in the model: mobilizing the community, providing opportunities, social intervention, gang suppression, and organizational change and development.

At the summit, participants also will discuss how the model could be used cost effectively to create new programs or expand existing ones. Programs such as public awareness initiatives, community involvement, law enforcement endeavors and after-school programs will be discussed.

The Fairfax County Coordinating Council on Gang Prevention was established by the Fairfax County Board of Supervisors. The council is responsible for the coordination and oversight of the county’s gang prevention and intervention efforts, and the group reports directly to the Board of Supervisors. The council was founded on the premise that gang prevention requires a community-based approach.

For media inquiries about the summit or the council only, please contact Captain Amy Lubas, acting council coordinator, at 703-324-8786, TTY 711. Members of the media interested in covering the summit are requested to register online, or contact the Office of Public Affairs at 703-324-3187, TTY 711.


77 posted on 02/20/2005 12:08:39 PM PST by Snapple
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To: jpsb

They have no interest in, nor any respect for this country. They are here to get rich by robbery, rape and pillaging. This is just the tip of the iceberg, I believe.


78 posted on 02/20/2005 12:08:50 PM PST by international american (Tagline now fireproof....purchased from "Conspiracy Guy Custom Taglines"LLC)
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To: dfwgator

BTTT


79 posted on 02/20/2005 12:09:53 PM PST by international american (Tagline now fireproof....purchased from "Conspiracy Guy Custom Taglines"LLC)
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To: HiJinx

It will affect the "hallowed" halls of Washington when members of their own families are affected. Until then, it's business as usual.


80 posted on 02/20/2005 12:10:22 PM PST by MoJo2001 (Operation Easter/Passover For Our Troops begins Feb.14th-Mar.4th---www.proudpatriots.org)
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To: Snapple

IMHO

The best way to protect against gangs in your family is to ensure that a FATHER is present in the life of young children. The effects of having a father that is in your face everyday and cares enough to punish you cannot be stated enough.

I'm living proof of this.


81 posted on 02/20/2005 12:12:14 PM PST by MoJo2001 (Operation Easter/Passover For Our Troops begins Feb.14th-Mar.4th---www.proudpatriots.org)
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To: dfwgator

Gangs are now a fact of life in the USA, law enforcement will do NOTHING. Where I live there are a least a dozen gang killings every years and I live in a little town. Also all the local gangs are imported from south of the border. And as we all know the government will not do anything to stop the flow. Seems no price that you and I have to paid is to high as long as the ruling class gets it's cheap labor.


82 posted on 02/20/2005 12:12:16 PM PST by jpsb
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To: who knows what evil?

"MS-13 is flooding into New England...they are all over the north shore of Boston. These savages are more of a threat to Americans than al-Qaeda could ever hope to be, and should be dealt with swiftly and harshly."

He he....the Feds allow massive illegal immigration, and when the individual states cry foul, the Feds say it's a state problem.



83 posted on 02/20/2005 12:12:42 PM PST by international american (Tagline now fireproof....purchased from "Conspiracy Guy Custom Taglines"LLC)
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To: Snapple
I will agree with part of your post. I believe police are trying. But I also believe many local, state and federal politicians up to our Executive Branch are not giving them the potentent, full tools they need, and they are also handicapped in many cases by Democrat-Republican Establishment political correctness/Open Borders Policy/ACLU Excessive Rights for Criminals, and the lack to actually engage in a successful war that pulls together all the resources, in fact the strategic mindset, that we are more than happy as an international military power to utilize in foreign battles but somehow cannot bring ourselves to engage in when terrorism like this is right on our own soil.

I would say that in that sense, your Northern Virginia, just as the other communities mentioned in this thread, will continue to suffer even more illegal immigrant violence by former Central American paramilitaries now operating on US soil, such as Mara Salvatrucha, despite 'how hard the police work'. And that is unfair to both the police and the citizenry.

84 posted on 02/20/2005 12:12:51 PM PST by AmericanInTokyo (Illegal Aliens "Those Wonderful People" in Jail Now Are $1.4 Billion A Year For California Taxpayers)
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To: jpsb

"Seems no price that you and I have to paid is to high as long as the ruling class gets it's cheap labor."

Amen, brother!!



85 posted on 02/20/2005 12:13:43 PM PST by international american (Tagline now fireproof....purchased from "Conspiracy Guy Custom Taglines"LLC)
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To: MoJo2001
The best way to protect against gangs in your family is to ensure that a FATHER is present in the life of young children.

That's great and all that, but this is the real world. How are you going to force fathers to stay with their kids. And I don't think being fatherless should be used as an excuse, this has been thrown around so much, that in essence it becomes a self-fullfilling prophecy. Plenty of children without fathers, don't end up in gangs.

86 posted on 02/20/2005 12:15:00 PM PST by dfwgator (It's sad that the news media treats Michael Jackson better than our military.)
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To: AmericanInTokyo

"I would say that in that sense, your Northern Virginia, just as the other communities mentioned in this thread, will continue to suffer even more illegal immigrant violence by former Central American paramilitaries now operating on US soil, such as Mara Salvatrucha, despite 'how hard the police work'. And that is unfair to both the police and the citizenry."

The police by and large, do their best. They are ignored by DC. How bad will it get before there is a public outcry?
How many innocent people must be robbed, raped, and murdered?


87 posted on 02/20/2005 12:17:10 PM PST by international american (Tagline now fireproof....purchased from "Conspiracy Guy Custom Taglines"LLC)
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To: MoJo2001
Most of them are in safe, gated communities in Bethesda, Chevy Chase, McLean or Northwest D.C., so they aren't going to do jackshit.

And in many a congressional district, it means even more Democrat VOTES, (if one can stand for Open Borders).

Occasionally a Congressman gets mugged on Capitol Hill heading for a townhouse there. But that is your normal, inner city D.C. crime. Nope, unless some Congressmen's immediate family have direct dealings with a crazed, machete-wielding, Maryland driver's license-carrying, Salvadorean illegal alien in good standing in the Maras, hey man, don't expect much to happen to help the rest of us here in "fly over country" who have to put up with this neverending guano.

88 posted on 02/20/2005 12:19:37 PM PST by AmericanInTokyo (Illegal Aliens "Those Wonderful People" in Jail Now Are $1.4 Billion A Year For California Taxpayers)
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To: Happy2BMe

One of these days, they'll have to bring in foreign troops to clean up the gang problem.


89 posted on 02/20/2005 12:21:20 PM PST by philetus (What goes around comes around)
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To: dfwgator

You don't have to force a Dad to stay with his kids. A dad will just do it.

Many military kids have fathers that are constantly away. I can tell you that most military kids aren't out there committing these crimes.

As I stated before, the best way to ensure that your children don't become involved in gangs is to have a father in the "house".

You are correct that many children without fathers grow up without committing crimes. However, it's a tougher road for them without one. Even if they don't have a father, I'm sure many had great role models. If not, then God bless them for living up to the life they were given.


90 posted on 02/20/2005 12:21:41 PM PST by MoJo2001 (Operation Easter/Passover For Our Troops begins Feb.14th-Mar.4th---www.proudpatriots.org)
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To: AmericanInTokyo

Exactly. When harm comes their way, and it will eventually, will the rest of us be around to feel bad for them? I think not.


91 posted on 02/20/2005 12:23:10 PM PST by MoJo2001 (Operation Easter/Passover For Our Troops begins Feb.14th-Mar.4th---www.proudpatriots.org)
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Comment #92 Removed by Moderator

To: MoJo2001

That's the way it's always been. And not just in our own country.


93 posted on 02/20/2005 12:24:22 PM PST by AmericanInTokyo (Illegal Aliens "Those Wonderful People" in Jail Now Are $1.4 Billion A Year For California Taxpayers)
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To: Happy2BMe
Another reason to hate tattoos—they make one look like a violent lowlife. Why do so many high school and university students want to look like gang members?
94 posted on 02/20/2005 12:24:37 PM PST by Logophile
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To: MoJo2001

They will be LONG GONE before that. Probably escaped to New Zealand or Fiji in retirement.


95 posted on 02/20/2005 12:25:21 PM PST by AmericanInTokyo (Illegal Aliens "Those Wonderful People" in Jail Now Are $1.4 Billion A Year For California Taxpayers)
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To: Logophile

Could it be that (c)rap music glorifies gang banging?


96 posted on 02/20/2005 12:26:47 PM PST by dfwgator (It's sad that the news media treats Michael Jackson better than our military.)
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To: itsmyboy

Because that is a crime and our police aren't terrorists.


97 posted on 02/20/2005 12:28:52 PM PST by Snapple
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To: dfwgator
Could it be that (c)rap music glorifies gang banging?

You may have a point. Too much of the popular "culture" (if it can be called that) glorifies criminality.
98 posted on 02/20/2005 12:29:17 PM PST by Logophile
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To: AmericanInTokyo

I'm glad you responded.
Here's something I've wondered about Japan.
I thought I had read somewhere (years ago) that Japan had many labor type jobs that the Japanese wouldn't take. With that, they eventually outsourced most of those jobs. According the article, the Japanese have been paying the price for it ever since. Was that article true? I've always been very curious about it.

Thank you.


99 posted on 02/20/2005 12:30:15 PM PST by MoJo2001 (Operation Easter/Passover For Our Troops begins Feb.14th-Mar.4th---www.proudpatriots.org)
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To: AmericanInTokyo

They don't want to go to New Zealand. They have their own gang issues. The difference? The brown folks ain't shorties like those south of the border. Hehe!


100 posted on 02/20/2005 12:31:45 PM PST by MoJo2001 (Operation Easter/Passover For Our Troops begins Feb.14th-Mar.4th---www.proudpatriots.org)
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