Underwater Arrowheads, Tools Dazzle Maritime Historians (Mi'kmaq - 8,000 YO)

CBC ^ | 2-17-2005

[blam]

Underwater arrowheads, tools dazzle Maritime historians

Last Updated Thu, 17 Feb 2005 15:28:09 EST
CBC News

HALIFAX - Archaeologists are showing off a treasure trove they call one of the most significant discoveries of Mi'kmaq artifacts in Nova Scotia.

Hundreds of arrowheads and tools, some 8,000 years old, were discovered last summer along the Mersey River, near Kejimkujik National Park in the southwest region of the province.

Workers from Nova Scotia Power were doing repairs to generating stations on the river. As water levels dropped in some areas, the riverbed was exposed for the first time since dams were built 70 years ago.

Suddenly hundreds of artifacts appeared in the mud.

"The quantity of material, the quality of material, the age range represented by the material, all is just fascinating for us," said archaeologist Bruce Stewart, who was hired to investigate.

Pottery fragments, spear points, knives and other items were found around 109 ancient campsites.

One barbed harpoon was once used to spear salmon and eels 3,000 years ago, Stewart said.

Since the artifacts were lying on the surface, the RCMP was brought in to control looting. Even the discovery was kept a secret.

"I think this is vitally important," Mi'kmaq historian Daniel Paul said of the find.

"There was a real functioning civilization here when the Europeans began to come here en masse, but the proof has been virtually destroyed. And all of a sudden we are finding the proof."

The Mersey River encampments are once again under water.

The artifacts will be sent to the Nova Scotia Museum once Stewart and his team finishes sorting them.

[blam]

GGG Ping.

[Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)]

Interesting article, thank you. But… One barbed harpoon was once used to spear salmon and eels 3,000 years ago… how do they know this? Maybe it was used to spear rattlesnakes or something. This is where archaeologists lose me. All they have to do is quit while they are ahead rather than rattle on.

[llevrok]

It's a Mi'kmaq, Paddy-wak! Give the frog a loan

Sorry. Old maritimes joke.

[Brilliant]

Maybe it says something like "Acme Salmon & Eel Spear" on it.

[Honcho Bongs]

I agree there isn't much information in this story, but it wouldn't surprise me if the Mi'kmaq's decendants use the same sort of tools today. Here's a link to a short article on the Mi'kmaq that shows one of the barbed harpoons. Look at the illustration of the spear under the heading "food" - looks unique to me. Maybe they were the same back then.

My question would be how they have dated these objects. Are they the same as previous finds that they have dated by their position in soil strata or have they done some sort of carbon dating to establish their age?

They've probably been taking salmon and eels in that area for thousands of years. I doubt it would have changed that much over that geologically "short" time.

[broadsword]

"There was a real functioning civilization here when the Europeans began to come here en masse, but the proof has been virtually destroyed. And all of a sudden we are finding the proof."

LOL! How is tribal, stone-age hunting and gathering a CIVILIZATION? That word is way over-used.

[Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)]

Maybe it says something like "Acme Salmon & Eel Spear" on it.

Ah...so THAT is how they knew!!!

[mad_as_he$$]

I agree but I'm not sure about rattler population in the region.

[BenLurkin]

Interesting.

[Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)]

Thank you for the link…I certainly stand corrected. I will try to be more patient and more careful in my comments next time.

Yes, dating objects has also been a problem with me. That and assigning a lot of things to “religious” beliefs without conclusive evidence. But then again, please correct me if I’m out of line.

[SunkenCiv]

Thanks Blam.

Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on, off, or alter the "Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list --
Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
The GGG Digest -- Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

[SteveH]

LOL! How is tribal, stone-age hunting and gathering a CIVILIZATION? That word is way over-used.

Journalistic license, as applied to the science of archaeology?

[momf]

Thank you for posting the link to the article. It is very interesting.

The harpoon reminds me of one for frog gigging we used back 50 - 55 years ago.

[Starboard]

Maybe it says something like "Acme Salmon & Eel Spear" on it.

---

Or it may have had a caution lable warning affixed to the shaft:

Spear not intended for killing rattlesnakes; misuse could result in serious injury or death.

[Graymatter]

Check out this page: http://www.c14dating.com/k12.html

It has a good non-technical introduction to carbon dating. That's a way of determining the age of something that was once alive (provided it isn't too old).

[Graymatter]

Er...about that link I just gave you. The page claims that the Shroud of Turin is likely a medieval artifact. Whoever wrote the page doesn't know much about the Shroud, and if you'd like to, a good page for that is www.shroudstory.com (First thing you'll see on that page is "New Tests Prove 1988 Carbon 14 Dating Invalid.")

:)

[Swordmaker]

Er...about that link I just gave you. The page claims that the Shroud of Turin is likely a medieval artifact. Whoever wrote the page doesn't know much about the Shroud, and if you'd like to, a good page for that is www.shroudstory.com (First thing you'll see on that page is "New Tests Prove 1988 Carbon 14 Dating Invalid.")

Don't worry too much about the C14 date report on the Shroud on that page... it will take awhile for the knowlege to be spread that the Shroud date test is invalid and even longer for those who wish it to be medieval to accept the invalidity.

Ray Rogers findings DO NOT invalidate the C14 test... in fact he states the tests were accurate for what they tested - a 16th century patch mixed with 1st century material. The general information about C14 testing is still quite good.

[mamelukesabre]

No kidding. I have basically the same reaction whenever I read some NEW IMPORTANT DISCOVERY that supposedly proves native americans were way more superior than we ever imagined.

They never even invented the wheel. no written language, no musical instruments(drums and rattles don't count), no metal crafts, no sailing vessels, textiles included animal skins and not much else....How's that for an advanced "civilization".

[Graymatter]

Thanks, Swordmaker, that's a good point. The headline would better have read, Conclusions Drawn From C14 Testing May Be Invalid. Probably wasn't enough space for that. ;)

In any case, I just can't pass along a link that contains something I consider mischievously untrue, without comment. Like they say---the lie gets halfway 'round the world before the truth gets its pants on!

[elli1]

Old Copper Culture artifacts (4000 B.C.-1000 B.C.) Manitoba

Link

Old Copper Culture artifacts have been recovered in Wisconsin as well.

Several 'native american' cultures in central & South America were extremely skilled in metal arts. Here's one example.

[-=Wing_0_Walker=-]

First I would envy the collection any one of the RCMP has now. Second, no ray guns?

[Cowman]

Or it came with instructions that said, "Stick pointy end in salmon and eels."

[Rebelbase]

"how do they know this? Maybe it was used to spear rattlesnakes or something."

There are no poisonous snakes in Nova Scotia. :-)

[Cowman]

no ray guns?

your wish is my command

[mamelukesabre]

First off, I don't count gold.

But, If you're telling me that there are copper knives and spears in canada from 4000BC, that really would be something impressive and quite shocking...but honestly I don't beleive it, since the pilgrims were shot at with stone arrows in AD1600s. I guess I'll wait and see how well this claim stands up to scientists criticisms.

[Swordmaker]

There are no poisonous snakes in Nova Scotia. :-)

SEE! It was an effective snake spear.

[Natural Law]

Archaeology is a science where where absolute proof is rarely achieved. In the absence of overwhelming evidence and data, hypothesis are put forth and then tested by peer review and further data collection. In this case a tool, similar in size, material and shape to others known to be used for spearing fish, was found next to a waterway with a significant salmon run. The conclusion is pretty obvious.

What is your learned counter-hypothesis or grounds for dismissal?

[Harmless Teddy Bear]

Copper was mined in the UP of Michigan and copper and silver objects have been found in mounds in Ohio dating to well before Europeans arrived.

The problem with copper is that it decays rapidly in damp climate unless something unusual is done to preserve it.

[mamelukesabre]

so why weren't they using copper to kill the english and french?

[Ichneumon]

In this case a tool, similar in size, material and shape to others known to be used for spearing fish, was found next to a waterway with a significant salmon run. The conclusion is pretty obvious.

Additionally, other similar spears could have been found among piles of bones of salmon and eels next to the ashes of a campfire, for instance.

[Harmless Teddy Bear]

Civilizations rise and fall.

The one in the Ohio valley vanished about 1100 AD which was about the time a lot of civilizations vanished. My personal belief is that the little Ice Age caused a drought of epic proportions to hit the Americas. About four major Meso-American civilizations that we know of collapsed at this time.

A lot of knowledge was lost when civilizations fell in Europe, why would you think it would be different in the Americas?

[-=Wing_0_Walker=-]

We need a reincarnation, and fast. Like the Pres better than Kerry (yecht) but a Ronnie he ain't He is trying his own variation of Reaganomics. I am not that positive about Georgenomics. The raised land values, similar to the increases under Accelerated Depreciation etc (supply economics) aren't backed by American Productivity, an American work force or the means of production. In essence, our dollar is nose diving and contrary to the "Return to an Honest Dollar" promised and delivered by Ronnie, Bush will crash the dollar until the means of production comes back to the USA.- IT WON'T UNLESS

Bt way of explanation, offshoring and the balance of payments has brought about the increase in oil, gold and land. The dollar is nose diving. I saw a power washer (Honda) at $997 at Home Depot. Three years ago it was under $500. I think Bush figures an American will say, "Hey I can make that cheaper". He will, but offshore and HQ on a tax sheltered island. Unless the sending of money home by illegals and other immigrants is also curtailed, as well as tax reform to make it profitable to manufacture in the US, the dollar is headed to Yuan status. Just My Opinion. Was PRO Reagan then and still admire the man - his wife on the other hand is a closet nut / Democrat IMHO, of course.

[Antoninus]

"There was a real functioning civilization here when the Europeans began to come here en masse, but the proof has been virtually destroyed. And all of a sudden we are finding the proof."

Sure there was. But I haven't seen much proof to indicate that this 8,000 year old civilization had anything to do with the Mi'kmaqs. In fact, it almost certainly didn't. Who knows who they were?

[Antoninus]

so why weren't they using copper to kill the english and french?

Because, as far as we know, the Mi'kmaqs and the other Eastern Woodland tribes that inhabited eastern North America when the Europeans arrived were stone-age peoples who didn't know metal-working. The people who left the metal implements were probably not even ancestors of the Mi'kmaqs of today. It's a mystery who they were.

There are certain people, both in the media and in the Native American community, though, who just assume that any artifacts found on land occupied by a given tribe at the time of the European arrival MUST have been left by their tribal ancestors. Indeed, considering how nomadic many of the tribes were, it's a ridiculous assertion.

[elli1]

First off, I don't count gold.

The bulk of that burial mask appears to be copper. The Moche worked gold, silver & copper.

'Copper, wood & resin' Moche ceremonial digging stick

[elli1]

Hammered Copper Effigy-Hopewell Culture (100 B.C.-400 A.D.)

Ohio History Central

[mamelukesabre]

"The people who left the metal implements were probably not even ancestors of the Mi'kmaqs of today. It's a mystery who they were."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

The primitives killed them off. THat's my hunch. Not always does the more advanced culture displace the more primitive ones. The greenland vikings dissapeared, and I think they were exterminated. And I really think there were labrador and newfoundland vikings as well that were exterminated.

In the short term, the only technology that matters is making war and if you aren't prepared for that short term threat, you become a short term corpse. Textiles, metal, farming, transport, housing...it's all superfluous to the immediate threat of war. What's more important are experienced individuals that know how to survive, know how to kill efficiently, know how to hide and escape, how to scout and track(especially in the absensce of good maps), and know how to organize teams of brigands. manufacturing and agriculture are worthless assets if they are undefendable.

I think it was here at free republic that I learned that the mormons beleive there were advanced civilizations in south america that rivaled those of the mediteranean at the time of christ, and that after the resurection, christ visited them. But then some time later, they were exterminated by primitives from the jungles.

Who knows, maybe there's something to it. I really don't know where or what their proof is for this story though.

[SunkenCiv]