Libertarian ping.To be added or removed from my ping list freepmail me or post a message here.
Posted on 02/23/2005 2:39:15 AM PST by freepatriot32
A homeschool group in South Carolina is beginning to raise funds to help defend two of its members – a teenage boy and a mother – who were arrested after a confrontation with a plainclothes police officer at a park.
The incident occurred at Simpsonville Park in Simpsonville, S.C. last Wednesday. A group of mothers and children from Upstate Homeschoolers Unlimited were socializing and playing in the park – a common activity for homeschool support groups.
After a call came in to police about someone in the park having a knife, a plainclothes policeman rushed into the picnic shelter where some of the homeschoolers were gathered.
According to parents who witnessed the event, the policeman began shouting at two teenage boys, pushing at least one to the ground. When he went to grab one of the boys, a mother, who at the time was holding another woman's baby, stepped in to stop him, not realizing he was a police officer.
Priscilla Adams and Jan Blanchard were two of the other moms present.
"(The intervening mother) turned to Jan and said, 'Call the police.' That's when he told us that he was the police," Adams said.
The 16-year-old boy was arrested for carrying a concealed weapon, a small hunting knife on his belt, and the mother was arrested for assaulting a police officer, even though witnesses say the man's badge and gun were not in a place where they easily could be seen.
Continued Adams: "The plainclothes officer was incredibly belligerent and angry right from the moment he rushed under the shelter. He could so easily have stopped as soon as he came up to us, announced that he was a police officer and needed to talk to the boy with the knife, but he didn't do any of that. Instead he shouted, shoved, verbally abused, intimidated. He acted so horrible it never occurred to me, or to any of us, that he was a police officer. He just seemed like a crazy man."
At that point, a uniformed officer came on the scene and confirmed that the plainclothes cop was indeed with the Simpsonville Police Department.
"The plainclothes guy told the woman holding the baby to put him down, that she was going to be arrested," Adams said. "I asked him what he was arresting her for since she hadn't done anything wrong. He told me for assaulting a police officer. I protested that she hadn't known he was a police officer. He told me to shut up or I would be arrested too.
"So not only can he arrest a boy for carrying a knife that was not concealed, and charge him with carrying a concealed weapon, not only can he assault a woman holding a baby, then arrest her for assaulting him, but apparently he can arrest people just for arguing with him."
The mother of the boy arrested was in the restroom during the altercation, returning just as her son was placed, handcuffed, into a police car.
Commenting on the action of her friend who tried to intervene, the woman said, "She was driven up to the police station and placed in a cell, all because she protected my son from a strange man."
Continued the mother: "One [uniformed] officer said he was about to draw his weapon. He had already unsnapped it and was pulling it out to draw and aim at my son, because he thought he was about to pull the knife on the plainclothes investigator. This same officer said there was no telling how many people could have gotten killed – in other words, he was prepared to shoot toward the shelter with all the small children around."
According to a report by local TV station WHNS, the plainclothes officer is on administrative leave pending an internal investigation.
"Whether it was an overreaction to a response, we'll find that out when we do the internal affairs thing," Police Chief Charles Reece told the station.
Responding to the parents concern about the reaction of the baby-holding mother, Reece said, "I can't say how I would have reacted. I'm a parent also and I've got children too, and I understand she was trying to protect the child. I understand that."
The police chief says the homeschooling group is welcome at the park and should not be afraid. But the parents say they will not be returning because they are scared of what could happen.
"We've felt very safe there before, and having the police station just beside the park seemed to be an advantage," Adams said. "We felt like nobody too bad would bother our kids with policemen so close by. We never thought it would be the police themselves that would be the frightening ones, the ones who would make our kids feel unsafe, who would make them have nightmares or keep them from even being able to sleep."
Adams told WND there are efforts under way to raise money for the costs of defending the teenager and the mother who were arrested. She also said that while one parent filed an official complaint against the plainclothes officer with the police department, further protests are not planned at this time.
Reece said his department's investigation should be completed by week's end.
Agreed. BTTT
BTT, where is the address to send funds? Did I miss it?
I didn't see it either.
SC ping list needed for more info.
They should SUE, SUE, SUE the bastards. Since when is it illegal to just have a knife? This ain't England you know.
I'm fairly pro-LEO but it's stuff like this, if true as described, that give good cops a bad image.
I just emailed the group that is in the link in the story to see if they are the group that is raising money for the defence when I get a responce I will post it here
I'm guessing if we email at the link provided, we can find out how to help. I'll do it in the morning...
Ok thanks!
Libertarian ping.To be added or removed from my ping list freepmail me or post a message here.
Agreed agreed. BTTT
one for your ping lists ?
It's stuff like patrol cars flying passed me and then five minutes later I catch up with them sitting at a lunch counter that gets me. I thought speed limits were a safety issue.
Who the hell is this cop, Buford T. Justice?
"Plainclothes" means he left his jackboots at home.
We have home schooled for close to 20 years. We used to think nothing of taking off and going to a local park for a noon time picnic. Now, we stay closer to home as it seems more and more of John Q. Public want to get into my business.
We are going on a field trip to the new police station here in town on Friday. Maybe I need to retain an attorney before going?
Actually the local home school community and the LEO community get along very decently right now. My daughter in grad school worked for the city on an intern program last summer and spent the majority of the time in the police station so the chief knows first hand the results of home schooling.
I am sure they will find the officer over-reacted, and fire him immediately...
I don't believe police who act this way are at all atypical, though I'm sure there will be many who disagree with me. I would enjoy seeing a survey regarding police and government employees' attitudes toward state intrusion and gun control, as compared to those of the the public.
His jackboots were under his pant legs.
For some reason, thoughts of BATF and Waco pop up.
Oboy, I'm in big trouble. I just spent a few hours teaching a bunch of 8 year old homeschooled Cub Scouts the basics of using pocketknives. After it was over, I gave them a Scout certificate entitling them to carry a pocketknife at Scout events (as long as it's OK with the parents) It sure is a good thing I live far srom South Carolina or I'd be in jail for encouraging the underage knife carrying.
BTW, I know a guy who almost ended up in jail for a similar thing. Some kid was beating up his son in a park. He went to intervene and was grabbed from behind by a female deputy who he didn't know was there. He didn't realize she was a cop until he had her on the ground and was standing on her neck.
Plainclothes, brown shirt.
There's probably a city regulation against "weapons" in the park. There is here.
I guess that also means that all people who have had some form of martial arts training must then leave their arms, legs and head locked up before going into a public place.
Geez!
Also, leave your #2 lead pencils at home!
And your knitting needles.
The rules provide an excuse for law enforcement to crack down on anyone they feel like harassing. I would guess they went after this group because it included teenagers, not specifically because they were homeschoolers.
Is it illegal to carry a knife? When on earth did a pocket knife become an illegal concealed weapon? This jackbooted thug should be fired from his job without delay.
I worked with quite a few "cops" for 4 years. They are VERY interesting folks. They don't view things the way "normal" folks do. Everything is sinister in their eyes. I guess it comes from what they see 24 hours a day.
Why raise funds? Just go find the sleaziest Edwards-esque lawyer you can and go sue the $h!t out of the PD and officer. Just make sure the lawyer works on commission only.
Not all that long ago, we carried those to school with us. (I'm assuming it was a buck knife) It was a thing that all boys did once our parents thought we were responsible enough to use it properly.
I'll pass this on to the Greenwood-Abbeville homeschooling groups my wife, children and I are involved in. This is of interest as both a homeschooler and a native of Simpsonville.
I don't doubt the Simpsonville PD has some cops fully capable of trampling on liberties such as has been described.
Back in 'the day' as it were - my little buddies and I ran all over the Simpsonville park with pocket knives and hatchets at Cub Scout Day Camp (early 80's). I can only imagine the SWAT team would be moblized if that were to happen today.
SC is insane! They have a 2 inch blade rule.
From their regs:
16-23-405
(1) Except for the provisions relating to rifles and shotguns in Section 16-23-460, as used in this chapter, 'weapon' means firearm (rifle, shotgun, pistol, or similar device that propels a projectile through the energy of an explosive), a knife with a blade over two inches long, a blackjack, a metal pipe or pole, or any other type of device or object which may be used to inflict bodily injury or death.
Hard to even buy a good pocket knife that size.
Damned lucky for the unidentified officer there were no homeschooling fathers around - though it would have been hard on the dad once he found out whom he had just neutralized.
Nail clippers, jump rope, potato salad ...
yeah, after re reading, I wonder if it is a straight knife. Those definitely don't usually come in two inch blades. Also, though I can't find the open carrying of a weapon in SC to be illegal (other than a firearm in the opening sections of the code), I have been told that it is not allowed.
It appears that SC is one of those states that allows only permits for firearms, not edged weapons. Beats me. A good belt knife is a good tool.
boot lace, guitar string, belt, cell phone, vehicle, paint can, rolled up newspaper...
sounds like a vague law to me.
NC is open carry, surrounded by neighbors that don't trust the citizenry, apparently.
"When on earth did a pocket knife become an illegal concealed weapon?"
Article say "hunting knife".
I wondered that myself.
I hope that the officer's evident lack of professionalism also resulted in his writing up the charges poorly as well.
I hate traveling through SC and TN, as neither will allow me to keep my knife on my belt.
SECTION 16-23-460. Carrying concealed weapons; forfeiture of weapons.
Any person carrying a deadly weapon usually used for the infliction of personal injury concealed about his person is guilty of a misdemeanor, ... The provisions of this section do not apply to rifles, shotguns, dirks, slingshots, metal knuckles, or razors unless they are used with the intent to commit a crime or in furtherance of a crime.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Still no mention of open carry.
Ironically, since you can't keep it on your belt, you would have to conceal it under your seat or in your car trunk. Then it really would be concealed. Crazy.
SHHHHH!!!!
So one CAN carry a DIRK/dagger but NOT a hunting knife?
The positive in this awful incident is that the police chief appears to empathise with the homeschoolers. He is not siding exclusively with his plainclothes officer whose behavior was, IMHO, totally out of bounds.
Here in ultra-liberal California, there's a good chance that the police and surrounding community would not be as sympathetic towards the homeschoolers. (A lot of our police officers have been infected with the leftist, PC, "zero tolerance" for butter knives and up bug.)
Prayers that the charges be dropped and the plainclothes officer is severly reprimanded.
Who knows? I couldn't figure out what is and isn't, I suppose a good lawyer might give you an opinion, and you might pay for it. I doubt the officer knows the ins and outs either.
They should make all these laws plain and consistent with reason, whomever "they" are.
A badge, A gun and Steroids are a deadly combination.
Some cops don't need the steroids to be a total egotistical jerk, just the badge and gun!
Maybe he just hates home-schoolers for some reason?
True, generally in the South you get a dose of reasonable consideration in your dealings with the law, unless you offend their sensibilities or otherwise get them entrenched in a position so that they feel they can not let it go.
I doubt I will be moving to CA unless y'all have a revolution out there.
My prayers with these folks too.
Lots of exceptions, though. Public parks, libraries, municipal offices, schools, etc. I don't know what NC's knife rules are ... I guess I should find out before I take the kids to the park with knives, though!
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