Methane released to the atmosphere is mainly caused by flatulence.
I also understand CO2 is a greenhouse gas. It is produced by exhaling and loud talking.
Here is enemy #1 for both greenhouse gases:
Oh, the humanity!
Posted on 02/23/2005 4:41:54 AM PST by spectrout
Listen up. This is very important. The global warming fanatics have fingered rising levels of atmospheric carbon dioxide (CO2), a so-called greenhouse gas alleged to be in the process of shoving the planet into a global microwave and raising sea levels to the point where the world's coastal regions will be submerged.
They blame the rise of CO2, now about 370 parts per million and rapidly climbing, on us evil humans for using fossil fuels, driving SUVs and barbecuing frankfurters on our backyard grills. They ignore the proven fact that over millions of years, every time CO2 levels have risen above 200 parts per million, an ice age has occurred.
Some 19,000 of the world's scientists and experts on climatology have signed declarations saying that blaming rising CO2 levels on mankind is garbage – junk science at its worst – and they insist that all the available evidence proves their contention.
Now comes Robert W. Felix, who in his book "Not by Fire but by Ice" argues persuasively that it is not global warming but ocean warming that is pushing CO2 levels through the roof. Moreover, those skyrocketing levels of CO2 are bringing on a new ice age, which is sitting at our front door right now.
According to Felix, the oceans are warming as the result of widespread underwater volcanic activity, which he thoroughly documents. He adds that "We've forgotten that this isn't the first time our seas have warmed. Sea temperatures also shot upward 10º to 18ºF just prior to the last ice age. As the oceans warmed, evaporation increased. The excess moisture then fell to the ground as giant blizzards, giant storms and floods (Noah's Deluge type floods), and a new ice age began." And he warns, "The same thing is happening today.
(Excerpt) Read more at newsmax.com ...
I really get sick of all the greenies whining about Kyoto and greenhouse stuff. One day it's global warming, then it's global cooling, then warming again. They can't seem to make up their minds. And like posted in your post, they are deliberately ignoring all evidence that contradicts their theory.
So much of modern science seems to function that way. Theory comes first, then the search for evidence to prop up the theory, then the avoidance of any inconvenient evidence which is un-covered.
All these so called scientists just can't admit the earth has natural cycles of heating/cooling.
Guess it's more PC to blame it on those eeeeevil SUVs!
It's got to be a good sign that we have so much time on our hands, the job of surviving has been reduced to such a trivial problem that we can spend gigawatts of mental energy fretting about how nature will make us extinct unless...
What? We start sacrificing maidens again?
Send Earth First! a check every month? Make tofu our official national food?
Elect greenies our leaders?
Wait. Is it that there are tens of thousands of marginally functional people who like to party and invent ways to avoid getting real jobs, and would rather we keep supporting them?
I already have my Save the Gay Handicapped Whales for Jesus sticker on my bicycle.
That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.
Actually I think it's two things:
1) They want government research money so that they can sit at their full salary, $100,000/year, ten hour per week, college teaching/research job, while having a bunch of non-English speaking grad students do their work for them because they are out acting like Ward Churchill, ripping the US a new one.
2) These people can't live without hating something. This is simply the next bandwagon to jump on for hating things/people.
The weather forecasters can’t accurately tell me what tomorrow’s high or low temperature will be, but they can tell me what the temperature is going to be 50 and 100 years from now. Ponder that.
Oh yeah, they are using COMPUTER MODELS, so this global warming BS has to be true. Nod knowingly, curtsy, bow, and genuflect to the computer model oracle. Trash in = trash out.
The crux of the sham is that the science ignorant masses are being led to believe that the complexity of global weather is not only understood, but that it can be accurately modeled!
For example, have the all knowing and all seeing computer models included ALL the effects that perhaps might mitigate a global warming trend? Have these tin foil hat global warming computer model Poly Anna kool aid drinkers considered factors such as if global warming is occurring then the need for heating oil decreases substantially resulting in less pollution?
Kyota protocol – yeah right, this entire global warming thing is nothing more than another extortion attempt by the worlds’ left. This is about money folks. Them taking money out of your pocket and putting it into theirs.
To presume that man has the ability to predict, let alone control the temperature of the earth is not just supreme arrogance, it is stupidity.
On one hand we have the claims from the left, who I KNOW to be unreliable sources of info, and who definitely have their underlying motives that could be driving their arguments --- No progress, business is bad, protect every single inconsequential species etc.
But on the other hand, there seems to be a growing list of evidence. It does not seem to be conclusive, at least not yet. But Average temps are rising, winters are warmer, and so are summers, glaciers are retreating, and warm-weather plants are showing up in cold weather places like the Boundary Waters of Minnesota.
There are two reasons for conservatives not to get ahead of either argument here:
[1] Being proved wrong, would destroy credibiblity,just as being proved wrong destroyed the credibility of the left.
[2] If Global Warming IS Real, doing the Right things about it, whatever they are, is the smart thing to do.
Conservatives need to be smart about this.
To ignore evidence like Alaskan glaciers that are retreating at a rate of 2 feet a year, or red-leaf maples {warm-weather trees} showing up in cold-weather Boundary Waters of Minnesota, is another.
Conservatives please -- go slow on this. Don't get ahead of the evidence. That is the way libs argue. We need to be smarter.
We are. Are you?
When you say If Global Warming IS Real, doing the Right things about it, whatever they are, is the smart thing to do., just what do you think that "smart thing" is?
When you KNOW, please let us know. Right now, I don't think nayone can say just what the "smart thing" really is, even if we were sure that "global warming" were truly real.
There is at least a 50% chance that what most folks might conclude is the "smart thing" would turn out in hindsight to have been the most stupid thing possible. So, what will it be?
Call me skeptical...
But...
We don't have all that long to wait to find out...
Conservatives please -- go slow on this. Don't get ahead of the evidence. That is the way libs argue. We need to be smarter.
Some people are so poor in mind and spirit that they need something greater than themselves to worship, and to fear, that is also politically correct.
We can tolerate that pathology, but we can't afford to cater to irrationality. Our Age of Enlightenment is long past.
Let the ignorant worship volcanoes and tofu, no harm done.
"If Global Warming IS Real, doing the Right things about it, whatever they are, is the smart thing to do."
Did you read the article? My impression is that there is really nothing to do. We have warming, but it is ocean warming caused by volcanic activity. The high levels of CO2 being released are the precursor of a new ice age which have occurred cyclically for millions of years.
I believe our point is that man can have little impact on an engine we do not understand and is vastly larger in its devices than anything we can do. Thus, the left is nutcakes to argue for action, when there is no proof that we are the cause, or could effect any change anyway.
One thing is certain, the left will destroy civilization if given the chance.
----- If Global Warming IS Real, doing the Right things about it, whatever they are, is the smart thing to do. -----
Very few people deny that there is such a thing as "Global Warming".
Where the conflict arises is typically on two points.
1) What is the cause? Human or Natural?
2) What is the solution? Human or Natural?
Since there is overwhelming evidence that earth has gone through multiple heating/cooling cycles well before human civilization or population could be considered a factor, the answer to #1 is inevitably "Natural".
Now, with regard to #2, one has to ask if there is anything we CAN do to prevent this cycling, and even if we could, whether we SHOULD???
I think it would be hugely ironic if we discovered that the changing temperatures are natural, and that manmade "Greenhouse gases" were actually a factor that *slowed* and *stabilized* natural cycling of temperatures. The irony would be most evident if we actually stopped producing them only to see nature whack us extra hard.
We should recognize that GOD has His finger on the dial and we really are small, negligible factors on what is happening in the universe and that we should pay homage to Him and pray for His grace.
Think about it, the Tsunami was just God *barely* touching the dial. Lots worse could happen and there is NOTHING we humans can do to stop it.
The best evidence shows warming trends similar to the Medieval Warm Period around 600 to 800 years ago (comparing 1000 years worth of tree rings from across the northern hemisphere). The glaciers are melting due to the warmup from the Little Ice Age which just ended in the 1800's.
As for the CO2 to warming models, they assume there is a "forcing" effect where increases in CO2 (a weak greenhouse gas) cause increases in water vapor (a strong greenhouse gas). This forcing effect is a hypothesis that has never been proven. In fact there is evidence that warming may cause increases in CO2. For the record, I believe mankind is increasing the CO2 in the atmosphere but that it's a small amount compared to the natural carbon cycle and will end up being rebalanced by nature.
Perhaps you misunderstood my point. Weather is extremely complex and science does not have the sensors, computational tools or a sufficient database to draw any long term conclusions.
What you term as evidence is in fact just a few select data points.
The earth has gone through much more dramatic changes in temperature in its past without the intervention of man. To somehow suggest that man can stop the forces of nature which are in motion, not fixed, is folly. Global warming, cooling, what have you - is a fact of the natural world; we should think about how we will adapt, not go off on some quasi-mystical crusade against technology in the hopes that global temperatures can be held at a fixed point in time.
Ivan
Oh really?
Tea leaves?
Chicken entrails?
Human sacrifice?
Ouija Board?
Skeptical is a force fit here.
Call it gullibility or sarcasm; not sure which.
Methane released to the atmosphere is mainly caused by flatulence.
I also understand CO2 is a greenhouse gas. It is produced by exhaling and loud talking.
Here is enemy #1 for both greenhouse gases:
Oh, the humanity!
HaHa
Methane, a product of decomposition of organic matter.
Another reason to say "Thank you Hollywood!" (for Methane, CO2, Private Jets, Limos, Excessive Electricity Use, Chemical Manufacturing...)
Hollywood, the Purveyors of Global Warming. Oh, the Humanity!
I believe that about sums it up; enough said.
Sky is falling bump.
If you wish to amuse God tell him of your plans.
He has some great analogies, the principle one being that global warming is an article of faith, not fact.
Nowhere in the 28 Articles of the Kyoto Protocols does it claim that anthropogenic CO2 causes Global Warming because to do so would require the data to support the claim and none exists. Global Warming rants are based on the junk science of socialists and doomsday grifters. The Geological Society of America informs us that what liitle climate change has occurred is caused by cosmic rays which ionize hydrogen nuclei in the atmoshere due to changing radiance of the Sun.
>
There was a warming period when the Icelanders settled Greenland --- and then it became much colder, right? And the Greenland settlements were abandoned?
There seems to be much interesting information in the Sagas about this. And of course it had nothing to do with human activity. Unless all that cabbage and pork they ate....
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Gotta be Lake Michigan.
The alarmists claim that was due to changes in ocean currents. That may be partly true, but the warmer temperatures were recorded throughout the northern hemisphere, not just the north atlantic. But you are right that methane is a much more potent greenhouse gas than CO2.
Not so fast. Glaciers are growing around the world, including the United States.
" To put this in perspective, you must realize that the Antarctic Ice Sheet and Greenland Ice Sheets are almost twice as big as the contiguous United States. They're almost 100 times bigger than all of the rest of the world's glaciers put together. In other words, more than 99 percent of the world's glaciers are growing ... and all we hear about are the few that are melting."
Geeezz
That's why I live way down South.
Excellent post. The truth shall make us free.
????
Interesting. I wasn't aware of this. What is the basis for the protocol then?
According to paleontologist Dewey McLean, a good portion of the Deccan Traps was submarine. This would explain why ocean temperatures at the dinosaur extinction rose by some 14° to 22°F. See http://filebox.vt.edu/artsci/geology/mclean/Dinosaur_Volcano_Extinction/index.html
On a related subject, let me ask you. If today's rising carbon dioxide are caused by humans, then what caused the dramatic rise in CO2 levels at the dinosaur extinction?
Research shows that there was "a sudden and dramatic rise" in carbon dioxide in the Earth's atmosphere at the dinosaur extinction of 65 million years ago. A recent report attributes the rise in CO2 levels to an asteroid impact. See http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/2038599.stm
I disagree. I think today's rise in CO2 levels can be attributed to our warming oceans. After all, the oceans are known as a carbon dioxide "sink," especially when the water is cold.
But as the water warms up, it releases CO2 into the atmosphere. This happens in much the same way that a warm bottle of home-brewed root beer will release CO2. And if you give that CO2 no way to escape, the bottle will explode.
We've got it backwards. We've got cause and effect in reverse.
The CO2 is not causing global warming. Instead, our warming oceans are releasing CO2 into the atmosphere.
It's not global warming, it's ocean warming, and it's leading us into an ice age.
I remember a Doris Day song.
"Que Sera Sera"
bump
Actually the accuracy rate of weather forecasting 24 hours ahead is very good. However the further ahead in time you go accuracy begins to drop. When you get to long range forecasts of 7 to 10 days ahead you might as well be flipping coins.
Former Minnesota resident here.
There isn't a growing list of evidence. Its the same arguments, but made more numerous and louder.
Your perception of an increase in average temperature is only a snapshot of the global temperature that is limited by your lifespan. For a discussion of long term trends, I suggest the following link:
http://www.oism.org/pproject/s33p36.htm
Second, most credible environmentalists will admit that the Kyoto protocols will not accomplish what they seek. The exclusion of over half the world's population (China and India, for example) should cause you some concern. Also, natural CO2 removal (ie trees) would make the United States a net consumer of CO2, but this is not allowed in the protocols. Kyoto is simply advancement of socialism.
"Actually the accuracy rate of weather forecasting 24 hours ahead is very good......"
On Sunday at 4 PM, prior to leaving for Albany to drop my son off at his college (a 7 hour round trip), I checked the 12 hour forecast for the NY Thruway. A snowstorm was predicted to start “after midnight”. The snow started big time at 10 PM and I had a heck of a time getting back home.
The relied upon forecast was only for 8 hours into the future and it was off by 25%!
CO2 outgassing is a widely held belief.
I'm not sure if I understand how ocean warming causes an ice age though.
From the article:
"We've forgotten that this isn't the first time our seas have warmed. Sea temperatures also shot upward 10º to 18ºF just prior to the last ice age. As the oceans warmed, evaporation increased. The excess moisture then fell to the ground as giant blizzards, giant storms and floods (Noah's Deluge type floods), and a new ice age began."
The models used in day-to-day forecasting are very limited in dealing with water vapor predictions and if you extend this into long term forecasts, the model error grows exponentially.
I am going by overall accuracy. Accuracy of course varies from locale to locale too. After all how hard would it be to forecast no rain in the Sahara?
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