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The global warming scam
Asia Times ^ | 02.25.05 | Derek Kelly, PhD

Posted on 02/25/2005 12:02:42 AM PST by Dr. Marten

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To: Dr. Marten

bump


51 posted on 02/25/2005 6:29:08 PM PST by nkycincinnatikid
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To: Brian328i; abbi_normal_2; Ace2U; adam_az; Alamo-Girl; Alas; alfons; alphadog; AMDG&BVMH; amom; ...
Rights, farms, environment ping.
Let me know if you wish to be added or removed from this list.
I don't get offended if you want to be removed.
52 posted on 02/25/2005 7:28:24 PM PST by farmfriend ( Congratulations. You are everything we've come to expect from years of government training.)
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To: taxesareforever

The Ol' Archbishop was wrong, eh?


53 posted on 02/25/2005 7:38:00 PM PST by Gondring (They can have my Bill of Rights when they pry it from my cold, dead hands!)
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To: Libertarianize the GOP

ping in case you have not seen this.


54 posted on 02/25/2005 7:38:18 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach (This tagline no longer operative....floated away in the flood of 2005 ,)
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To: TwoWolves

It doesn't matter when he started time or how long he was in existence before time began. What's the point? There was nothing until time began, except God, and that is where this discussion is based.


55 posted on 02/25/2005 10:09:37 PM PST by taxesareforever
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To: Gondring

There are four times as many wrong answers as there are right anzwers when it comes to creation.


56 posted on 02/25/2005 10:12:06 PM PST by taxesareforever
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To: Dr. Marten

bump for a later read


57 posted on 02/25/2005 10:21:26 PM PST by MinorityRepublican
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To: taxesareforever

bttt


58 posted on 02/25/2005 11:17:22 PM PST by rock58seg (The real enemy of good is perfect.)
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To: taxesareforever
There are four times as many wrong answers as there are right anzwers when it comes to creation.


59 posted on 02/26/2005 1:18:13 AM PST by Gondring (They can have my Bill of Rights when they pry it from my cold, dead hands!)
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To: farmfriend

BTTT!!!!!!!


60 posted on 02/26/2005 3:12:06 AM PST by E.G.C.
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To: TigerLikesRooster

Ping!


61 posted on 02/26/2005 6:05:03 AM PST by Dr. Marten
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To: Dr. Marten
Re #61

Thanks for your ping! Interesting stuff.

62 posted on 02/26/2005 6:18:50 AM PST by TigerLikesRooster
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To: Gondring

How come they always say it's the SUV's fault?


63 posted on 02/26/2005 10:42:29 AM PST by taxesareforever
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To: Dr. Marten
The Norse colonies in Greenland even export crop surpluses to Scandinavia.

Global warming alarmists should spend a year trying to grow crops and tend domestic animals amid these Viking ruins in Greenland, and then report back to us about how the global temperature is higher now than it ever has been.


64 posted on 02/26/2005 10:55:46 AM PST by Plutarch
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To: taxesareforever
How come they always say it's the SUV's fault?

Okay, how does this relate to creationism and your claim to which I replied?


65 posted on 02/26/2005 1:28:24 PM PST by Gondring (They can have my Bill of Rights when they pry it from my cold, dead hands!)
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To: Plutarch

Does the concept of global averages versus spot observations actually elude you, or are you being intentionally obtuse?


66 posted on 02/26/2005 1:29:43 PM PST by Gondring (They can have my Bill of Rights when they pry it from my cold, dead hands!)
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To: Gondring

That was a reply in need of an answer? Please enlighten me.


67 posted on 02/26/2005 4:04:41 PM PST by taxesareforever
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To: taxesareforever

bump


68 posted on 02/26/2005 4:11:23 PM PST by Mr_Moonlight
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To: taxesareforever
That was a reply in need of an answer? Please enlighten me

Follow the thread back...Click here or scroll up to #56 for your claim. I responded that I have no idea what you are talking about when you said, "There are four times as many wrong answers as there are right anzwers [sic] when it comes to creation."

69 posted on 02/26/2005 4:17:19 PM PST by Gondring (They can have my Bill of Rights when they pry it from my cold, dead hands!)
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To: taxesareforever
What do you mean by what is the name of my group?

I'd be embarrassed too if I belonged to some wacko cult.

Maybe it's the "Church of Fred Flintstone" or something.

So, who do you espouse to be wiser than the God of the Bible?

No one. He was wise enough to use metaphors and literary devices to tell stories that even imbeciles could understand. SOME imbeciles didn't figure it out, they think the numbers were literal throughout the bible. Those people are called cultists.

Name a Christian group which says the earth is millions of years old.

The Roman Catholic Church and every other real Christian denomination acknowledge that the earth is not 8000 years old, but much much older.

Did the people in the bible ride on dinosaurs? Or just eat them? Did they have those little stone cars like Barney Rubble? Did Fred Flintstone really work on that dinosaurs' back at the quarry? Do you "chosen" ones have these answers? Inquiring minds want to know....

70 posted on 02/26/2005 7:24:43 PM PST by Protagoras (" I believe that's the role of the federal government, to help people"...GWB, 7-23-04)
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To: Gondring

I responded that I have no idea what you are talking about when you said, "There are four times as many wrong answers as there are right anzwers [sic] when it comes to creation."

I was being facetious. What I was alluding to is that it seems as if at least once a week another scientist makes a "discovery" which makes the world older than the last estimate. Or, some bone is discovered that changes the estimation of how old man is. It is almost as if they are playing "Name that tune in ___notes"


71 posted on 02/26/2005 9:56:00 PM PST by taxesareforever
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To: Protagoras

What do you mean by what is the name of my group?

I'd be embarrassed too if I belonged to some wacko cult.

Well you must be embarrassed because I still haven't heard the name of your group.

And by the way, "Chosen" refers to Jesus choosing me or anyone else who believes in Him. If you have a hard spot with that, take it up with HIM.


72 posted on 02/26/2005 9:59:57 PM PST by taxesareforever
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To: Protagoras

I find it interesting that you haven't really had any answers. You have gone into attack mode. I have a problem with your comments claiming an old earth. You say the Bible backs you up. But, does it? I think that you are using modern science to interpret the Bible. If the scientists say that the earth is billions of years old, and they have "proof", then the Bible's days must actually be symbolic and not literal. As a Christian, shouldn't you look to the Bible first? And look at fallible man secondary?

I know that it is hard for people to believe in what we can not see or understand. Science gives people something to hold on to. But, if you start by saying the Bible doesn't really mean 6 days, but each day was millions of years, then what else in the Bible can be re-interpreted using science? I believe the Bible to be the inerrant Word of God. I don't need science to explain it to me.


http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs/1866.asp


73 posted on 02/27/2005 10:22:45 AM PST by bizeemommie
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To: Dr. Marten
"all of New England and all of the Great Lakes area, most of Ohio, Indiana, Minnesota and the North Dakotas, lie under ice sheets hundreds of meters thick. More than 37 million cubic kilometers of ice was tied up in these global sheets of ice. The average temperature on the surface of the Earth is estimated to have been cooler by approximately 6 degrees Celsius than currently. The sea level was more than 90 meters lower than currently."

The watermellons would want this state preserved if that's what the present conditions were.

74 posted on 02/27/2005 10:27:51 AM PST by spunkets
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To: taxesareforever
Well you must be embarrassed because I still haven't heard the name of your group.

You never asked me the name of my denomintion. I belong to a Presbyterian Church.

So your little cult doesn't have a name?

75 posted on 02/27/2005 6:48:17 PM PST by Protagoras (" I believe that's the role of the federal government, to help people"...GWB, 7-23-04)
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To: Dr. Marten

Look there is no global warming, okay? I'm in NJ and it snows here everyday. Last eummer, it only reached 90+ degrees briefly in early June and then we never saw that climate again. Did I mention it snows here everyday?


76 posted on 02/27/2005 6:52:37 PM PST by RepubMommy
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To: bizeemommie
So you are another cult member who says dinosaurs and Jesus were around at the same time?

When DID those pesky little dinosaurs go away?

As a Christian, shouldn't you look to the Bible first?

I do. But you pretend that the bible and man's observations on the earth are mutually exclusive. The interpretation of what the bible says is the sticking point. Some people think that there is only one interpretation, theirs. And they are right, and thousands of years of scholarship by other Christians and Jews is wrong. Against all scholarship and evidence, some whacked out minister in some bizarre little cult is right, and everyone else is wrong. No wonder people end up at Jonestown and similar places.

For every poor fool looking for "a different way", there is some charlatan who is happy to take their money for his "Church of the what's happening now".

77 posted on 02/27/2005 6:57:14 PM PST by Protagoras (" I believe that's the role of the federal government, to help people"...GWB, 7-23-04)
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To: Protagoras

By your responses I would not have thought that you were a member of a Christian church. I am a member of the Lutheran Church, Evangelical Lutheran Synod.

http://www.evluthsyn.org/


78 posted on 02/27/2005 8:37:02 PM PST by taxesareforever
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To: taxesareforever
Lead isotope ratio test.

There are rocks at that 4 billion years old. We can tell because they contain various types of lead that differ in the number of neutrons they contain, of exactly the types we see from the radioactive decay or uranium, in definite amounts. This much type A, this much type B, this much type C. We know the reactions that make each from higher up the chain of elements. The ratios between them change with time, because some of the higher up items in the chains leading to those end types are more stable than others, and hold things up for some routes more than other routes, through the list of intermediate stages.

If we look at the amount of A vs the amount of B and hypothesize "this came from decay of uranium", we can calculate from the rates of decay we see, what the implied age of the sample is. But one such ratio could be just a coincidence. So we check it - what about the ratio of A to C? Gives another date. Happens to be the same date, about. OK, maybe that is a coincidence - so we check it. We look at the ratio of B to C. That gives a third date, a third age for the same sample. Bang on the other two. Every time. Rocks brought up from deep strata, off in podunk, that nobody could possibly know or care about (in Australia e.g.). 4 billion years three ways, every time.

Now, maybe that is some truly elaborately conceived initial condition put their on purpose. But it sure as heck ain't a coincidence. And what imaginable process goes out of its way to fiddle with three tuned ratios of amounts of atomic varieties of lead, differing by a few extra neutrons, buries the result under acres of rock at the ends of the earth, then goes around doing the same thing everywhere? I mean, is it supposed to be a prank of the gods, or what? Or did something rejigger the laws of physics to make radioactive decay happen differently in the past, just for kicks? Unless you think so, and there is literally no earthly reason to think so, there are rocks billions of years old.

79 posted on 02/27/2005 9:25:57 PM PST by JasonC
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To: JasonC

And what imaginable process goes out of its way to fiddle with three tuned ratios of amounts of atomic varieties of lead, differing by a few extra neutrons, buries the result under acres of rock at the ends of the earth, then goes around doing the same thing everywhere?

The same Process that created the human body. And, by the way, why do we keep getting updated age of earth or age of bones? Talk about fiddling, consider the following in the case of the ordinary bee:
In 3 days the egg of the queen is hatched
It is fed for 9 days (3x3)
It reaches maturity in 15 days (3x5)
The worker grub reaches maturity in 21 days (7x3)
And it is at work 3 days after leaving it's cell
The drone matures in 24 days (8x3)
The bee is composed of 3 sections-head and two stomachs
The two eyes are made up of about 3,000 small eyes,
each (like the cells of the comb)having 6 sides (2x3)
Underneath the body are 6 (2x3)wax scales with which
the the comb is made
It has 6 (2x3)legs. Each leg is composed of 3 sections
The foot is formed of 3 triangular sections
The antennae consist of 9 (3x3) sections
The sting has 9 (3x3) barbs on each side.
Coincidence? Not if you believe what the God of Bible is capable of doing.
The procedure you quote should be good from square one and not need to be "readjusted". But then again, these readjustments are done by humans who are always looking to make grand discoveries in order to elevate their status in the scientific field. ("The fool says in his heart, there is no God")


80 posted on 02/27/2005 11:05:40 PM PST by taxesareforever
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To: Protagoras
So you are another cult member who says dinosaurs and Jesus were around at the same time?

I never said that. The dinosaurs you talk of were destroyed in the flood. That pesky little flood that killed every living thing. It lasted 40 days. But, since a day is only symbolic I wonder how long the flood really lasted? sarcasm off/

I don't pretend to believe. I do believe. God and man's observations don't have to be exclusive. But, if man's observations don't line up with what the Bible says than I go with God. I think that if you look, there are many Jewish and Christian scholars that believe creation happened just as the Bible says, and the world is only thousands of years old. Just because you can't wrap your mind around it doesn't mean it didn't happen or it isn't so. Why must men put a limit on God's power?

I am not going to debate this anymore, because it is obvious that you will not change my mind, and I will not change yours. First time I have been told I was in a cult, though. That is always fun.

But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise. 1 Corinthians 1:27
81 posted on 02/28/2005 5:12:45 AM PST by bizeemommie
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To: taxesareforever

By you response I thoght you were a member of a church even more whacked out than that cult. Although it would be hard to find one more whacked out.


82 posted on 02/28/2005 6:08:06 AM PST by Protagoras (" I believe that's the role of the federal government, to help people"...GWB, 7-23-04)
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To: taxesareforever

83 posted on 02/28/2005 6:19:46 AM PST by Protagoras (" I believe that's the role of the federal government, to help people"...GWB, 7-23-04)
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To: taxesareforever
I don't call it a cult, but I do call it Christianity.

Nothing in the Christian Bible speaks of the age of the earth. The Jewish Bible does, but not the Christian one. Do you eat pork? Do you carry out animal sacrifices on the alter?

84 posted on 02/28/2005 6:42:36 AM PST by FreedomCalls (It's the "Statue of Liberty," not the "Statue of Security.")
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To: taxesareforever
Name a Christian group which says the earth is millions of years old.

I'm a Baptist and my church does not take a stand on the age of the earth. "Render unto Caesar those things that are Caesar's and render unto God those things that are God's." My church deals with the salvation of my soul, not scientific doctrine. That's for the scientists. My faith remains strong.

85 posted on 02/28/2005 6:45:58 AM PST by FreedomCalls (It's the "Statue of Liberty," not the "Statue of Security.")
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To: bizeemommie
I believe the Bible to be the inerrant Word of God.

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/inconsistencies.shtml

Just a sampling:

NU 25:9 24,000 died in the plague.
1CO 10:8 23,000 died in the plague.

1KI 9:28 420 talents of gold were brought back from Ophir.
2CH 8:18 450 talents of gold were brought back from Ophir.

1KI 16:6-8 Baasha died in the 26th year of King Asa's reign.
2CH 16:1 Baasha built a city in the 36th year of King Asa's reign.

1CH 3:19 Pedaiah was the father of Zerubbabel.
ER 3:2 Shealtiel was the father of Zerubbabel.


86 posted on 02/28/2005 6:55:01 AM PST by FreedomCalls (It's the "Statue of Liberty," not the "Statue of Security.")
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To: Dr. Marten
The author has not read all of the circular reasoning from our global warming alarmists... global warming = ice age For a great example of this see the "well researched" enviro-epic "The Day after Tomorrow". There is no ground to stand on in this debate. Like John Kerry the leaders of this hoax have claimed proof from every possible direction.
87 posted on 02/28/2005 7:34:28 AM PST by hford02 (I have to rig my quota of black box voting machines for the 2006 midterms.)
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To: Protagoras

By you response I thoght you were a member of a church even more whacked out than that cult.

And what response would have led you to think that?


88 posted on 02/28/2005 12:35:58 PM PST by taxesareforever
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To: taxesareforever

89 posted on 02/28/2005 12:38:56 PM PST by Protagoras (" I believe that's the role of the federal government, to help people"...GWB, 7-23-04)
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To: FreedomCalls

Nothing in the Christian Bible speaks of the age of the earth. The Jewish Bible does, but not the Christian one. Do you eat pork? Do you carry out animal sacrifices on the alter?

Wow! Nothing like reinventing the Bible. If you were to study the Bible you would realize that Jesus Christ satisfied ALL the sacrifices in the Old Testament by this suffering and death.

Nothing in the Bible speaks of an unborn embryo either. So I guess you consider pro-choice a logical choice.


90 posted on 02/28/2005 12:41:19 PM PST by taxesareforever
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To: Fredgoblu
the temperature on our planet has an awful lot to do with that thing in the sky that we call the Sun!

Only surface temperature. Earth radiates more heat than it receives from the sun.

91 posted on 02/28/2005 12:41:26 PM PST by RightWhale (Please correct if cosmic balance requires.)
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To: taxesareforever
If you were to study the Bible you would realize that Jesus Christ satisfied ALL the sacrifices in the Old Testament by this suffering and death.

What does eating pork have to do with Jesus' sacrifice and death? Are you saying that because of his sacrifice we no longer have to worry about cleanliness and dietary laws? Do you follow the strictures of Leviticus or not? If it's the unerring mandated word or God, then why do you ignore His commands?

Nothing in the Bible speaks of an unborn embryo either.

Yes it does. Read Romans 13:9.

92 posted on 02/28/2005 4:23:05 PM PST by FreedomCalls (It's the "Statue of Liberty," not the "Statue of Security.")
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To: FreedomCalls

What does eating pork have to do with Jesus' sacrifice and death? Are you saying that because of his sacrifice we no longer have to worry about cleanliness and dietary laws? Do you follow the strictures of Leviticus or not? If it's the unerring mandated word or God, then why do you ignore His commands?

Welcome to the real world. Do you really think that you are judged by Christ on cleanliness and dietary laws? If you do, you do not accept the belief that Christ's suffering and death was the cure for the law in the Old Testament. Check out Romans 10:4-13.

As for Romans 13:9 referring to an embryo,I did not see the word embryo there. Are you now basing the killing of an embryo by referring to another portion of Scripture which you have not provided? How unique. Scripture proving Scripture and not science proving Scripture.


93 posted on 02/28/2005 7:45:53 PM PST by taxesareforever
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To: farmfriend; calcowgirl; All

"Global Warming" -- MORE "PROOF" !!!

"A person in Sapporo stands beside a snow sculpture of Nagoya
Castle. Heavy snow since December has killed 61 people across
Japan, making it the deadliest winter in nearly two decades,
with most of the victims elderly people who slipped shoveling snow
off their roofs."
(AFP/File/Toru Yamanaka)

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/050228/photos_sc_afp/050228122655_1yvoinjm_photo0&e=8&ncid=1756

"...deadliest winter in nearly two decades." (!!!)

Note: Emphasis added, but no editing needed - the text is straight from Yahoo. (Click the link !!!)

   

94 posted on 02/28/2005 10:06:28 PM PST by Seadog Bytes ("The love of liberty is the love of others; the love of power is the love of ourselves."-Wm. Hazlitt)
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To: Seadog Bytes

If you look real hard you can see Al Gore looking out one of the windows.


95 posted on 03/01/2005 10:04:38 PM PST by taxesareforever
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Greenland Ice Cap Is Melting, Raising Sea Level
Source: The Associated Press
Published: Jul 20, 2000 - 04:05 PM Author: By Paul Recer
Posted on 07/20/2000 14:37:50 PDT by Ms. AntiFeminazi
http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3977712e1941.htm


96 posted on 04/02/2006 1:43:39 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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oldies:

Global warming doubles rate of ocean rise
Eurek Alert | 11.24.05 | Carl Blesch
Posted on 12/31/2005 9:28:17 PM EST by Coleus
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1550023/posts


97 posted on 11/02/2006 5:50:34 AM PST by SunkenCiv (Dhimmicrati delenda est! https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: Dr. Marten
It's nice to read a little common sense once in a while. I just wish the Lefties out there could stop the fear mongering and lies and actually look at all the science involved. Maybe listen to a few Climatologists.

They tell us Kyoto is the only way to save the planet. I don't understand how Western Countries continuing to pollute at their current rate, and paying "thrid world" countries, and china, billions of dollars to continue to pollute at their low rates, is going to help anything.

The reason the Environment issue is being forced down our throats at this time is because if we institute Kyoto now, when the cooling phase starts in 2012-2015 due to the reduction of sun spots, the lefties will claim they were right all along and Kyoto was the way to fix worlds problems. It will also be around the same time that China would be expected to join, but since things will be running so well at that point, I guarantee you china will be allowed to abstain for a further substantial amount of time.

I agree we have environment problems, but Kyoto, and the Global Warming proaganda is not going to help them. In Canada and the USA we need to clean up our water, clean up smog, and clean up other air pollution that is causing terrible asthama and allergies.
98 posted on 01/25/2007 11:17:44 AM PST by gralph17
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To: Protagoras
ok if the earth is only 10 thousand yrs old . please explain dinosaurs when there's evidence like plateosaurs 200million yrs ago ? just a question.
99 posted on 09/16/2007 11:42:19 AM PDT by djominous
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Well, call me a real cinic, but I dont believe ANYBODY, the author of this post of the scientists and environmentalists know anything at all..

I am a statistician, and unless you have a lot, and I mean a lot of data without any assumptions you cannot really prove anything.

The government is so keen to jump on this as its just a way of making more and more tax money. The most grating thing is that all of the “uneducated” people buy into this tosh and accept “green taxes” as a good thing. There are alternative fuels in abundance that produce less Co2 and are replenishable, however OPEC buy all the patents to prevent new entrants into their market so they can price fix oil even more.

My global warming prediction is as follows:

Tax on fuel goes to $8 (£4) per litre within 10 years on the back of oil shortages and green tax.
A new replenishable fuel will be brought out as people get past breaking point, this fuel will be taxed at $6 (£3) per litre and we will all gobble it up as its so much cheaper. But in the end the goverments and OPEC will rake the money in. Its got nothing whatsoever to do with climate.

If it was really that big a problem, do you not think embargo’s would be placed on Chinese and Indian products unless they reduce their Co2 output.

didnt I hear that Cows make more tonnage of Co2 than motors cars in the UK ? and we have a very small agriculture industry too !!!


100 posted on 10/07/2007 11:11:56 AM PDT by Skeete
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