The Bris will take place next week.
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Posted on 02/26/2005 5:16:19 PM PST by Babwa
The national news media is abuzz with a story about the possible link between the tragic death of an infant Jewish boy from herpes and his circumcision. At the same time, the media has not fully reported on the fact that circumcision could save millions of lives from the scourge of AIDS.
The problem is that circumcision is in the Bible, which makes it a serious violation of the religion practiced by the majority in academia and the mainstream media - secular fundamentalism. They have stood by while millions died and continue to die. How differently they value human life than Judaism and the Judeo-Christian tradition.
(Excerpt) Read more at towardtradition.org ...
MOHEL: People compose yourselves. (Shouting as the struggle ends) This is a bris. We are performing a bris here, not a burlesque show. This is not a school play! This is not a baggy pants farce! This is a bris. An sacred, ancient ceremony, symbolizing the covenant between God and Abraham... or something. (The Mohel opens his bag to start the process but drops it and his instruments fall out. People attempt to help him out) No! Don't touch it! Don't touch a thing!
ELAINE: Ok.
MOHEL: (muttering to Jerry).. I coulda been a kosher butcher like my brother. The money's good. There's a union, with benefits. And, cows have no families. You make a mistake with a cow, you move on with your life... Anyway.
MEDICAL BENEFITS FROM CIRCUMCISION
http://www.geocities.com/WestHollywood/Park/6443/Circumcision/circumcision.html
Read the part under "Anti-circumcision lobby groups" to see what kind of people are behind such efforts.
And the same hysterical folks--many who have sexual identity problems among them--lie about the "AMERICAN ACADEMY OF PEDIATRICS: Circumcision Policy Statement," the Abstract of which begins, "Existing scientific evidence demonstrates potential medical benefits of newborn male circumcision;..."
http://aappolicy.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/pediatrics%3b103/3/686
The balance of evidence leans toward the benefits of circumcision, and there certainly is not enough reasonable (as opposed to hysterical rants) evidence against it to suit neo-Nazis and homosexual activists by outlawing it.
I'm not sure that the words "kiss" and "circumcision" belong in the same book, much less the same sentence.
Keep the tip.
Your comment was spinning around in my head as I - inexplicably - clicked into this thread...
The circumcision tradition should continue, but metzizah b'peh is next to insanity today.
There's a job opening at the circus.
Circumcising elephants.
Pay isn't much, but you get BIG tips.
Didn't this guy know he had herpes??
Guess I'm having a problem in understanding the infant died of herpes. The mental vision I'm having is not pleasant.
Wow. No kidding. Health considerations entirely aside, that's just asking for trouble.
My two sons had circumcisons. It's healthier.
Pardon my ignorance, but wouldn't you have to have an active sore to transmit the virus?
Yes.
Circumcising elephants.
Pay isn't much, but you get BIG tips.
They use them to make Magic Wallets.
Rub it, and it turns into a suitcase.
Thought so - I wonder what this guy was thinking, sucking on babies' weenies with a cold sore in his mouth.
***At the same time, the media has not fully reported on the fact that circumcision could save millions of lives from the scourge of AIDS. ***
Keeping your penis out of your buddies butt and his out of yours could save millions of lives also. The media also doesnt say much about abstinence.
I find it very hard to believe, but it is a real ceremony. In these modern times, I don't see much use for it.
Advertisement by a hospital:
Wanted, person to work and train in the baby ward.
Pays 40 skins a week, plus tips and a real chance to get a head.
Agreed! With all due respect to tradition, I'm glad my nephew's bris was of the modern variety.
I'll take my chances intact.
I didn't mean to wrongly condemn the guy if the babies were infected another way. Still, in this day and age, I'm not real comfortable with the practice, especially since it's not clear that it's halachically mandated.
That site was last updated in 1999. Much evidence has come out since then that shows how beneficial it is to leave the protective foreskin intact (as well as the benefits for marital relations... :-)
Additionally, it has been discovered that babies who were circumcised are much more sensitive and fearful of pain of later vaccinations.
How about letting the kids choose for themselves when they get older whether they want to mutilate their bodies or not?
Metzitzah b’peh is a specific form of metzitzah where the mohel uses his mouth to draw off the excess blood. B’peh is translated as "in the mouth." Before you jump to the wrong conclusion and contrary to the ridiculous and baseless attacks by enemies of circumcision, there are no hidden sexual undertones or convoluted theories of barbaric blood-sucking associated with this very quick and otherwise unappealing procedure or any other aspect of Judaism.
Yowza!!!!!!
It's a true sickness in a country where "reproductive" and "privacy" rights trump even a parental notification for surgery as with abortion.
The so-called "hygiene benefits" have been debunked. A properly washed uncircumcised penis is plenty hygienic.
The recent claims about AIDS being harder to spread due to circumcision is a non-sequitur. If neither partner has AIDS, if condoms are used, if abstinence is practiced... It's harder to beat your wife if you have no arms, that doesn't mean we remove them at birth. The circumcision permanently alters the sensations because of the removal of tissue and nerve endings, it can cause serious damage if not done with great skill.
These days it's a cosmetic thing for vain men, for their sexually revolutionized women. But it's also a means of control. The Jewish practice comes from the ancient notion that a circumcised penis will help keep a man inside his marriage. That a boy will grow up easier to control the vestiges of his wayward genetic inclinations. In this case, children contracted herpes, one even died because of Jewish practice where drawing of blood is required. Often a straw is sucked on to produce the blood but there is also a practice where the mouth is used directly.
It's heinous perversion masked as religious tradition.
We must fight to end this barbaric practice done to our male offspring. It is entirely unnecessary, deemed as such by modern medicine with a $400-500 price tag, for the overwhelming majority. Only those who find their foreskin is not developing sufficiently for it to be safely and comfortably retracted during adolescence need to have it addressed, perhaps by surgical means to restore proper function.
I beg to differ. Some reasonable people do not think Circumcision is necessary or beneficial and not all are from fringe groups. There has been a move in the last ten years not to circumcize. The American Academy of Pediatrics does not recommend routine circumcision. Some Jews don't recommend or do it. Whether it is any more protective than routine hygiene is debateable.
I am not going to engage in an argument about this, just wanted to point out that people differ, reasonable people differ.
You're efforts to slander "anti-circumcision" lobbyists against this Judeo-based barbarism is repugnant. Circumcision is a scandalous practice no free, thinking, sovereign human being with rights to life and liberty, endowed by his Creator, should accept nor practice on his sons.
And even with the presence of HIV, the risk of transmission is increased with circumcision. From HIV and circumcision: new factors to consider (SEXUALLY TRANSMITTED INFECTIONS, Volume 79: Pages 495-496, December 2003.) (Please see original for source citations):
Circumcision has some little known effects that may promote rather than deter HIV infection. The human foreskin has physiological functions designed to protect the human body from infection. The sub-preputial moisture contains lysozyme10—an enzyme that attacks HIV.11 Circumcision destroys this natural protection.The groups trying to blame intact foreskins for the AIDS problems of Africa are ignoring science to advance their own leftist agenda. Those who piggyback on them to further their goal of continuing infant mutilation are just as bad--the same category as those who make millions from abortions (mercenary "medical" practicioners).
Circumcision removes erogenous tissue,12 desensitises the penis,13 changes sexual behaviour, and makes males more likely to engage in unsafe sex practices.14 Circumcised males, therefore, are less willing to use additionally desensitising condoms.5
Male circumcision produces hardened scar tissue that encircles the shaft of the penis. The scar scrapes the inside of the partner’s vagina during coitus and, therefore, may enhance the transmission/reception of HIV. A programme of mass circumcision would expose African males to unsafe genital cutting,4 would destroy the natural protection of the foreskin,10 would not be effective against iatrogenic unsafe health care,4 would divert scarce medical and social resources from measures of proved effectiveness,5 and, therefore, is likely to increase the transmission of HIV.5
The proportion of HIV infection attributable to heterosexual intercourse has been placed at 90%.9 Gissellquist and Potterat now estimate the proportion attributable to heterosexual intercourse at only about 30%8 —only a one third of the previous estimate. [my emphases]
I watched my first son's circumcision and was so appalled by this barbaric practice that I became an vocal anti circumcision advocate. When my first Grandson was born my daughter was against him being circumcised but her husband overruled her. I insisted that he be in the room while his son was circumcised. My second Grandson is intact as made by God. Parents should watch to see the horrible pain they inflict upon hours old babies. This is a barbaric practice that should be relegated to medical history books for future generations to shake their heads over.
A little over the top are we?
Repugnant, scandalous, heinous perversion
Gimme a break
You practice standard 21st century American hygiene, right? You've passed that knowledge to your sons, yes? Then they get no benefit from circumcision.
They do get a loss of sensation, potential for the glans drying out and so forth. You put them at risk for sheer vanity; they are still at risk for sexually transmitted and urinary tract infections.
How dare you make this life altering decision involving their most personal and private parts? The decision should be left to them when they are old enough, mature enough to electively, responsibly decide to have this irreversible cosmetic procedure performed. Informed consent about their own bodies, their very own foreskins. What's wrong with leaving them as God or nature intended?
I am not going to argue with either of you. Circumcision is a ceremony performed on the 8th day. Few children can speak a work by this date. If it seems perverse of unnecessary for you, don't do it, and insist that it not be done to your children. As for me and my religion, we will practice it. (Our Mohel was a surgeon from a local hospital. He brought his equipment to our home for the ceremony. He was paid $100 as a charity, he would not have accepted a fee for this as he considered it a Mitzvah, (a gift). No mouth contact, it is considered barbaric to modern Jews, hospital antiseptic procedures please.
The Bris will take place next week.
FRmail me to be added or removed from this Judaic/pro-Israel ping list.
WARNING: This is a high volume ping list
I'm frankly aghast that so many "conservatives" don't take this issue seriously. It's about liberty, life, basic truths, being secure in your person, being a caretaker of a new human life not some sad devotee of an unenlightened, savage and ignorant tradition.
I am not arguing considering it pointless. I am just watching and noting the rhetoric.
Congratulations on your new grandson!!
On topic: my eldest was circumcised, but I was just horrified at how painful it seemed. The rest of my boys are not. If, when they are older, they want to have it done, I will allow it and pay for it (if they are still at home). I just cannot bring myself to do that again without them consenting.
How about letting the kids choose for themselves when they get older whether they want to mutilate their bodies or not?
Since I remember absolutely nothing about it, I think I am happy with the decision my parents made. Thats my opinion though.
As for letting them choose when they get older...Have you seen some of these people walking around with more holes and jewelery sticking out of their heads, than you would find in a jewelery store? You are right, whats one more mutilation?
Let's face it, any and all of these discussions are meaningless to us because we will NEVER stop doing circumcisions, G-d forbid, because we want to do His will.
I have 10 grandsons, not to mention six sons, two son-in-laws and one husband. All of them were circumcised as infants and experienced no trauma. If the mohel is skilled, it is very quick and there is very little blood, and much less painful than the same procedure performed on an older child or an adult.
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