Are we fools led by liars? (THE EU CONSTITUTION EXPLAINED)

No one would be happier than I if Sweden got booted out of EU.

We were fooled by our politicos to enter. The referendum campaign 1994 was fought under false pretenses. Most Swedes are definitely not enthusiastic "Europeans". Our euro referendum 2003 showed what the majority really thinks about the EU. Economically and in many other ways we would do much better outside EU.

ScaniaBoy

Here are some views posted at the BBC:

Apparently in a recent poll here, nine out of ten people said they had no idea about the contents of the EU's constitution. That says it all really.
Marcus, Madrid

Reports throughout Europe show that nearly 90% of the Spanish population had never actually read the charter and had no idea what it contains. Further, the number of Spaniards that voted was 20% less than those that voted in Iraq. This is not a ringing endorsement, even if the "yes" vote had a large majority. Kind of dispels the notion of the European public "being more informed" than Americans. A constitution that has 500 pages?! Europe could have borrowed all of the eleven pages America needed for its constitution and have been done with it.
John Willard, Atlanta, Georgia USA

In the UK, I feel that our politicians and media are seriously letting us down, and failing to uphold the most basic tenet on which democracy is based. I follow the news and current affairs with reasonable regularity and yet, until I clicked on the link below, I had no idea what the contents of the EU Constitution are. I didn't even know what basic principles it is based on. None of our politicians have, to my knowledge, offered any information or informed debate on what the EU Constitution means, and the press offer only shallow, sensational jingoism. In this light, abstention from voting, though entirely non-constructive, is the only informed decision one can make.
N Rhodes, Leicestershire, UK

Holtz
JeffersonRepublic.com

"....to cut off American export to European countries that were not following France’s advice – nothing American."

I see nothing wrong with the free market ;-).
The US also have history of protecting its steel industry... not so?

I think that is not helpful to mix up "anti-americanism" with business...

The French (EU) actions based not on anti-american feelings, but they want to develop their own industry...

Or you think that the US have a license forever for manufacturing airplanes (and other high tech goods) for the whole world?

Or you think that the US have a license forever for manufacturing airplanes (and other high tech goods) for the whole world?

Of course not. But then Boeing isn't subsidized by the state. Nor are we telling other countries not to buy "French" or Euro. We'll compete in the global marketplace , Oh, and before you use the argument;Awarding military contracts to Boeing is not subsidization so don't bother going there.

In these fork-in-the-road times for the UK, I find myself wondering about several things.

1. I have heard that the proposed constitution trails in opinion polling in the UK, but that most are undecided. Is there a significant chance UK voters will approve it?

2. Are there any other countries where it is likely to fail?

3. In that past, when referendums haven't gone the EU's way, they've just held them again until they get the result they want. If the UK votes no, what happens? Does the superstate proceed without the UK? Do they just try again? Does the integration process stop?

No one knows the answers for sure, but I would be interested to hear what people think.

I have heard that the proposed constitution trails in opinion polling in the UK, but that most are undecided. Is there a significant chance UK voters will approve it?

I think chances are slim - not only are the Tories opposed, but the far left is too, they regard it as some sort of capitalist dodge. My response is, "Um, whatever you say, comrade."

Are there any other countries where it is likely to fail?

Poland and Denmark. Maybe Sweden.

In that past, when referendums haven't gone the EU's way, they've just held them again until they get the result they want. If the UK votes no, what happens? Does the superstate proceed without the UK? Do they just try again? Does the integration process stop?

Back to ye olde drawing board, probably. Even the left-leaning Economist had a cover saying, "What to do with the European Constitution" and showing a rubbish bin. Another alternative is that a "two speed Europe" develops, with a core of states, like France and Germany, that decide to integrate further, leaving us out of it. Which suits me.

Regards, Ivan

Ciao Scaniaboy,

That's why I would suggest a 2/3 majority to get in (and also to get out)... as opposed to weathervane feelings.

I can understand why countries of true democratic tradition, (although Sweden is so PC, I wonder if she can still be called a democracy) aren't at all pleased by a United Europe. Don't misunderstand me, I see nothing at all wrong with that choice.

What's wrong is trying to sit on two saddles. Either in or out, either you accept the Euro, or out. In raw and dirty politics money is where your heart is. If the Germans could sacrifice their proud Mark, then the British should do the same with the Pound.

Though the changeover was hell, I'm fairly happy with the Euro. I like going to France, Austria, Germany with the same money in my pocket. I imagine that a New Yorker likes to go to Michigan without having to stop in a wechselstube.

Now with the Islamic threat, who knows what's better? Probably each country on its own with heavily guarded borders. Wouldn't want too much of Rotterdam or Malmo or Marseilles traveling freely to Florence.

Ideally, without murderous religions and ideologies, my rule of thumb is: whatever's good for children and lovers.

Two kids of any nationalities will always play (even if their dads might hate each other) and there will always be Romeo and Juliet stories. The world is already united, only humans separate it.

But factor in terrorism / Islamic demographics and everything changes.

Ciao

“…you think that the US have a license forever for manufacturing airplanes (and other high tech goods) for the whole world?”

I think that if a country’s private industry would like to buy a Boeing plane or an Airbus plane, it should be up to the country and the company. I do not think the France should threaten them with a promise to delay their EU membership - although I think this threat would be a blessing.

Again look at recent history, a few years back France and Germany threaten Turkey against allowing US troop to invade Iraq through their lands. These recent action of the EU dictating to member states and non-member states is more reminiscent of the old U.S.S.R. then anything representing a free Europe.

This constitution of the EU, do the Europeans voting for it know what it entails? Do they know if they will be financial contributors or recipients? Will the EU use military force to hold the signers in the union? Who will give power (the people or an electoral system like America)? Will the smaller states have rights or will they be rolled over by France and Germany? Who will benefit, who will pay? …Are the people even reading the document before voting for it? …500 pages, the people need to study it, not just read it!

Why aren’t Europeans asking these questions? I think the EU is spreading anti-American propaganda to keep the people busy while their country’s culture, values, freedoms and tradition are striped away and voted for by an ignorant population. Good luck fools!

Holtz
JeffersonRepublic.com

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