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Andalusian Muslims Recall Painful Mass Exodus
IslamOnline.net ^ | February 27, 2005 | By Al-Amin Andalusi

Posted on 03/01/2005 6:55:46 AM PST by concrete is my business

After more than five centuries, Muslims of Al-Andalus (now Spain) still mark every year in anguish the mass exodus of their ancestors by Spanish authorities to North Africa.

The Moriscos, the name given to Muslims who were living in Spain after the fall of the last Muslim stronghold of Granada in 1492, were subjected to an array of persecution, torture, mass killings, forced conversions to Christianity, the notorious Spanish Inquisition and mass exodus that started in February 1502.

Today, up to four million grandsons of the Moriscos are living in North African countries like Morocco, Algeria and Tunisia.

“They used to commemorate every year these painful memories to keep the agonies of their forebears vivid,” Moroccan historian Bin Azouz Hakim, a specialist in the history of the Moriscos, told IslamOnline.net Sunday, February 27.

Morsicos’s descendants in Morocco, who are concentrated in cities like Tangier, Fes, Marrakesh and Rabat, mark every year the fall of Granada and Al-Andalus, which was regained in 1492 by Spanish troops in the long process known as the Reconquista under the Catholic monarchs Isabella I of Castile and Ferdinand II of Aragon.

The descendants, many of whom still have Spanish surnames, mark the anniversary with symposiums, Andalusian music and shows portraying the sufferings of their ancestors.

The northern city of Shafshoun, which was built by the Moriscos when they were forced to Morocco, still have the Moriscan aura with its Andalusian architecture and traditional Moriscan costumes.

“Apology”

In 2002, Hakim sent a message, inked by an elite of Moriscos, to Spanish King Juan Carlos asking for a public apology to the descendants.

The message, however, fell on deaf ears.

Hakim; nevertheless, sent another message to the king, asking him to explain why he rejected his call while he apologized to the Jews in a visit to Israel in 1992 for the mass exodus from Al-Andalus.

“I think because we don’t have a powerful lobby like the Jews, who make the best use of the past to get financial gains,” Hakim said.

“But the Muslims only want a moral compensation and that’s why, ironically, Spain is adamant,” he added.

The expert also opposed a Moroccan mediation effort to get the much-hoped apology.

“It is an inalienable right to the Moriscos. It makes no sense that the Spanish king had apologized to the Jews of what is now Israel, who have nothing to do with the Sephardim (the Jews of Al-Andalus), while is reluctant to say sorry to the Moriscos’s descendants.”

After an absence of almost 500 years, the Adhan (call to prayer) and the muezzin’s cry of 'Allahu akbar' (God is greatest) rang on July 10, 2003, from the minaret of the Great Mosque of Granada.

The site of the mosque was bought 22 years ago, when it was still a small plot of farmland squeezed between a convent and a church on the crest of the Albaicin, the last Muslim quarter of Granada.


TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: africa; europe; europeanmuslims; islam; morocco; muslim; spain; spainishmuslims
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An apology is now an "inalienable right"!
1 posted on 03/01/2005 6:55:47 AM PST by concrete is my business
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To: concrete is my business

Delusional doesn't begin to cover it. Maybe they should apologize for ravaging and occupying Spain.


2 posted on 03/01/2005 7:00:43 AM PST by sheik yerbouty
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To: concrete is my business
Morsicos’s descendants in Morocco, who are concentrated in cities like Tangier, Fes, Marrakesh and Rabat, mark every year the fall of Granada and Al-Andalus, which was regained in 1492 by Spanish troops in the long process known as the Reconquista under the Catholic monarchs Isabella I of Castile and Ferdinand II of Aragon.

Note the word "Reconquista". What the muslims conveniently fail to report is that long before they were forced out of Andalusia, they first overran it! They were invaders to begin with.

How much one remembers is a function of how one wants to look.

3 posted on 03/01/2005 7:00:49 AM PST by snarks_when_bored
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To: concrete is my business

Next thing ya know they will have Brodder Sharpton and Jessie Jackass over there demanding reparations.


4 posted on 03/01/2005 7:01:21 AM PST by GaltMeister (The only time a Democrat should be allowed in the White House is to visit the President.)
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To: concrete is my business

What happened to the Spaniards that the Moors slaughterd? Do they get an apology? How about the Austrians that Seuliman slaughtered when he invaded? Would Native Americans have to apologize to Spain and England if they drove them back into the Atlantic?


5 posted on 03/01/2005 7:01:29 AM PST by massgopguy (massgopguy)
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To: concrete is my business

Should have marched them off a cliff.


6 posted on 03/01/2005 7:02:02 AM PST by Piquaboy (22 year veteran of the Army, Air Force and Navy, Pray for all our military .)
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To: concrete is my business

We, the people of Spain, apologize for not kicking your sorry butts out of our country sooner.

Sorry, best I could do.


7 posted on 03/01/2005 7:02:04 AM PST by L98Fiero
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To: concrete is my business

This is a good subject to put forth for discussion, and it should include the full history of the moors (and later otto's) and their activities in europe......hopefully, as europe realizes they are under the 3rd wave of the assault from these people, they will deal with it appropriately again (as in "exodus" and WWI). Call it anything you want, but nothing less worked both times previously, why on earth would it now?


8 posted on 03/01/2005 7:03:08 AM PST by Vn_survivor_67-68
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To: concrete is my business
Apologyze to the conquering hordes?

The jews were not conquerers. What these people want is the benefit of the advancement of western cultures without any of the efforts, sacrifices, wars that went with it. Spain would have been a backwater had it not been for movements like the Rennaissance, the Enlightenment and the re-conquista.

I am tired of revisionists telling me that during Spain's Islamic period, there was an incredible surge in the sciences, culture, etc. This naive arguement can only be surmised as long as muslims were in charge, when they were not, they had a nasty habit of fighting and killing all the time!

Anyhow all this is moot since spaniards will not stand up for their nation and in two generations, muslims will be the largest minority there. Bye Bye Andalucia it was nice for a while!

9 posted on 03/01/2005 7:04:46 AM PST by bubman
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To: concrete is my business
After the Moslems take over Spain, Will it take the Spanish 500 years to kick them out again?
10 posted on 03/01/2005 7:04:52 AM PST by HuntsvilleTxVeteran (Rush agrees with me 98.5% of the time!)
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To: concrete is my business
"....After more than five centuries....."

Get over it already, you bunch of medieval neanderthals.

11 posted on 03/01/2005 7:05:26 AM PST by DoctorMichael (The Fourth Estate is a Fifth Column!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
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To: concrete is my business

Let me sum this up: "We, the descendents of the muslim hordes who invaded your lands, are angry that you reconquered your lands and evicted us to the dungheap that is known as North Africa. In the spirit of the worldwide Jihad currently exploding all over the world we will villify you to justify horrible acts of terror. P.S. We spit on the grave of El Cid."


12 posted on 03/01/2005 7:07:31 AM PST by ExpatGator
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To: concrete is my business
Apologize?

Me cache en los Moros!

13 posted on 03/01/2005 7:09:41 AM PST by Don Carlos (Me cache en los Moros. (Ancient Spanish curse))
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To: sheik yerbouty

LOL :P


14 posted on 03/01/2005 7:10:24 AM PST by Constantine XIII
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To: concrete is my business
Funny how muslims forget how they treated the infidels when the conquered the Christian lands of Spain, France, the Balkans, Turkey, Syria, Jordan, Greece, Lebanon, etc...

From: Islam's War Against The West-U. S. has fought Islamic terrorism before - The Barbary Pirates zianet.com ^ | zianet.com

In the fourteenth century, Eastern Europe was invaded by the Islamic armies of Emir Murad I. They destroyed everything in their path, and forcibly converted or killed all that stood in their way. Of those who refused to convert to Islam, the women were first raped and then sold into slavery, along with their children. The men not killed on the battlefield were castrated and blinded to make them docile slaves. Many Christian cities, along with their inhabitants, were burned to the ground by the invaders. The Turks nailed some 12,000 Serbians to crosses in mockery of their Christian Faith.

The Islamic invasion of Eastern Europe seemed unstoppable until 1389, when they reached the Kosovo Plain, in Serbia. Under the Serbian Prince Lazar, some 77,000 Christian knights and soldiers made a vow to one another and to Christ to die rather than "convert or die" under Islam. Upon hearing of the death of the Prince, a group of knights, outnumbered two hundred to one, charged through the enemy lines to the center of the enemy camp and killed the Emir.

Though they were themselves decimated, the Serbs killed so many Islamic soldiers that the Islamic advance into Europe was halted. This battle is considered by many Christian historians to be the single greatest sacrifice of Christian martyrs killed in a single day. Serbia remained in Muslim hands until the 19th century.

In 1453, after many years of resistance, Constantinople was finally conquered by the Ottoman Empire. Forty years later, in 1492, Islamic forces were finally defeated in Spain by the Christians, with legendary leaders such as "El Cid". Four hundred years of warfare between Muslim and Christian might help explain the Spanish intolerance for religious "heresy" exemplified in the Spanish Inquisition, and their forceable conversion of natives in the New World.

Meanwhile, Islam contined to expand in the East when the Turks, under their leader Suleiman the Magnificent, marched across the Danube River to defeat the Hungarians at the Battle of Mohacs, in 1526. Within three years they were at the gates of Vienna.

In 1529, in his treatise "On War Against the Turk," Martin Luther exhorted the rulers of Europe to put aside their petty rivalries and unite against the threat posed by Islam. He said that self-defense against the Muslim "abomination," who he called "blasphemers against Christ," was a divinely ordained application of the sword.

"Doubtlessly they know better than I how cruelly the Turk treats those whom he takes captive. He treats them like cattle, dragging, towing, driving those that can move, and killing on the spot those that cannot move, whether they are young or old."

Luther's call for unity was answered by an alliance of German, Austrian and Polish forces, which ended the siege of Vienna in 1529, that same year. With the death of Suleiman in 1566, Ottoman expansion ended for a time, until 1683, when they began the second Seige of Vienna. After they had forced a breach in the city walls, they were only able to occupy parts of the city for several weeks before being expelled by an alliance of European forces. Peace was finally established with the Peace of Karlowitz, signed in 1699, which gave the Ottoman Empire Macedonia and the Balkans, and Austria the provinces of Hungary and Transylvania.

Throughout these centuries of conflict between Christian and Muslim, besides the perils of land travel, any Christian Crusader or pilgrim who sailed the Mediterranean to the Middle East risked capture and enslavement by Muslim pirates. Among those captured was St. Vincent de Paul and Miguel de Cervantes, the author of Don Quixote. Both of these famous men, and many lesser ones, were ransomed over the course of centuries by the Roman Catholic Religious Order of Trinitarians.

15 posted on 03/01/2005 7:11:28 AM PST by 2banana (My common ground with terrorists - They want to die for Islam, and we want to kill them.)
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To: concrete is my business

Spain should never apologize for the Reconquista.


16 posted on 03/01/2005 7:13:53 AM PST by Thorin ("I won't be reconstructed, and I do not give a damn.")
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To: concrete is my business

Not mentioned is the fact that they had actually been permitted to stay after the fall of Granada, and in fact did stay for quite some time. They were permitted to practice their religion and kept their property - most of them were small farmers or artisans. However, as usual, other Muslims arrived from abroad and stirred up the locals, resulting in several gruesome and bloody attacks on Christian communities in the southern Mediterranean part of Spain. Finally, when a plot was discovered to seize parts of the coast, the king ordered all Muslims to leave.


17 posted on 03/01/2005 7:14:05 AM PST by livius
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To: concrete is my business
Andalusian Muslims Recall Painful Mass Exodus

Unless these people are 500+ years old, none of them are "recalling" anything described here.

Today, up to four million grandsons of the Moriscos are living in North African countries like Morocco, Algeria and Tunisia.

Yes, where some of them would go on to do things like wage a terror war of their own (at least in Algeria) and force out the pieds noirs. This was only 40-50 years ago but the French are "recalling" and whining about it far less than Muslims whine about "Andalusia". Why is that?

“They used to commemorate every year these painful memories to keep the agonies of their forebears vivid,” Moroccan historian Bin Azouz Hakim, a specialist in the history of the Moriscos

That sure sounds healthy!

In 2002, Hakim sent a message, inked by an elite of Moriscos, to Spanish King Juan Carlos asking for a public apology to the descendants. The message, however, fell on deaf ears.

For one thing, Juan Carlos had nothing to do with it, nor did anyone else living in Spain today.

18 posted on 03/01/2005 7:14:26 AM PST by Dr. Frank fan
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To: DoctorMichael
"Get over it already, you bunch of medieval neanderthals."

Right On! Inferior people with an an inferior cult belief system.

19 posted on 03/01/2005 7:14:26 AM PST by Wurlitzer (I have the biggest organ in my town {;o))
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To: L98Fiero

The Spanish surrender monkeys have already lost Andalusia to the muslims, with a birth rate of 1.17 versus a zero growth rate of 2.1 the Sapnish will be populated with a muslim majority by 2050 if not sooner. The european spanish population will decline by 40 percent (40 million to under 25 million) by 2050 and the muslim numbers swell from a around a million to over 27 million due to a birth rate of 6 and EU immigration policies.


20 posted on 03/01/2005 7:15:33 AM PST by reluctantwarrior (Strength and Honor, just call me Buzzkill for short......)
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To: reluctantwarrior

I understand a similar situation is present in France as well. Euro-weenies, indeed.


21 posted on 03/01/2005 7:18:06 AM PST by L98Fiero
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To: sheik yerbouty

"Maybe they should apologize for ravaging and occupying Spain."

Exactly my thought. Since when are repelled invaders owed an apology from the people who kicked them out of their country?!

I guess China and Korea need to apologize to Japan for kicking its soldiers out.

We need to apologize to England, of course.

I would say France needs to apologize to Germany, too, but I'm quite sure that's already happened.


22 posted on 03/01/2005 7:18:26 AM PST by MeanWestTexan
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To: bubman

Spain IS a backwater.


23 posted on 03/01/2005 7:20:18 AM PST by johnb838 (Need some wood?)
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To: L98Fiero

It's even more pronounced in France by 2040 the muslims will be the majority, the netherlands will also go in 2040 or even 2038 depending on which pop. rate is cited.


24 posted on 03/01/2005 7:22:42 AM PST by reluctantwarrior (Strength and Honor, just call me Buzzkill for short......)
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To: concrete is my business
The Spanish should require an apology from the Moriscos. They are the ones who invaded Spain to begin with. sheesh... what a bunch of whining butt munchers.
25 posted on 03/01/2005 7:23:13 AM PST by monday
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To: sheik yerbouty

The Spaniels surrendered. Hadn't you heard ?


26 posted on 03/01/2005 7:24:29 AM PST by Eric in the Ozarks
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To: Vn_survivor_67-68

Here Here!!!!!!!!!!


27 posted on 03/01/2005 7:25:29 AM PST by bperiwinkle7 ("In the beginning was the Word.....")
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To: concrete is my business

It's been 500 freaking years; GET OVER IT ALREADY!!!!!!!!;)


28 posted on 03/01/2005 7:25:47 AM PST by Frank_2001
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To: Vn_survivor_67-68

Here Here!!!!!!!!!!


29 posted on 03/01/2005 7:27:01 AM PST by bperiwinkle7 ("In the beginning was the Word.....")
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To: bperiwinkle7

sorry sorry!


30 posted on 03/01/2005 7:27:52 AM PST by bperiwinkle7 ("In the beginning was the Word.....")
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To: concrete is my business

It's been over 500 years, get over it.


31 posted on 03/01/2005 7:28:10 AM PST by NeoCaveman (Putting the UN first makes you a UNamerican....)
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To: Vn_survivor_67-68
It is a very interesting subject. Unfortunately, Islam Online uses it to take a gratuitous kick at the Jews (as usual).

The "inalienable right" to an apology could be from the Jesse Jackson School of Rights. :)

32 posted on 03/01/2005 7:30:38 AM PST by concrete is my business (keep your friends close and your enemies even closer)
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To: concrete is my business
An apology is now an "inalienable right"!

The coat of arms of one of the branches of our family tree has seven fish on it. Each fish represents an Islamic Moor killed in combat by our ancestor during the Reconquista.

In 711 AD, the Muslims invaded the Iberian Peninsula and destroyed the ancient and then Christian society of much of Hispania. The Great Mosque at Cordoba was built over the rubble of a Christian church the Muslim completely destroyed. The Christian survivors fled behind the mountain strongholds of Asturias and Galicia and later embarked on the 800 year Reconquista to reclaim the land of their ancestors from the Muslim invader.

The Muslims do not apologize for 711 AD so why should they get an apology for 1492?

33 posted on 03/01/2005 7:37:45 AM PST by Polybius
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To: reluctantwarrior

It's not just Spain, most of Western Europe has the same problem.

They could've persued a more balanced immigration policy by ethnicity, but they opted not to.

If you import a lot of Orientals they take over your neighborhood shopping center to sell ethnic goods. OK, so I can't get meatball & pasta, but I can live with curry shrimp fried rice.

If you import a lot of Muslims, they have many children and take over your country, declare Islamic Republic and impose the Sharia. Nope, can't live with that.


34 posted on 03/01/2005 7:45:28 AM PST by s_asher
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To: MeanWestTexan

TROP is a cult of mass delusion, it would appear.


35 posted on 03/01/2005 7:46:16 AM PST by sheik yerbouty
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To: concrete is my business

I guess we'll have to apologize to the NAZIs for running them out of France. And maybe India can apologize to the Macedonians for turning back Alexander's armies...


36 posted on 03/01/2005 7:46:31 AM PST by gridlock (ELIMINATE PERVERSE INCENTIVES)
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To: Eric in the Ozarks

Only the old cockers..


37 posted on 03/01/2005 7:46:48 AM PST by sheik yerbouty
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To: Constantine XIII

If it is that painful, they should put some panties on that!


38 posted on 03/01/2005 7:48:02 AM PST by sheik yerbouty
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To: L98Fiero
We, the people of Spain, apologize for not kicking your sorry butts out of our country sooner.
---Sorry, best I could do.

How about this: We're really sorry about kicking your butts 500 years ago, and we're going to be really, really, really sorry 500 years from now about the butt kicking we're giving to you today.

39 posted on 03/01/2005 7:54:56 AM PST by gridlock (ELIMINATE PERVERSE INCENTIVES)
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To: concrete is my business
After more than five centuries, Muslims of Al-Andalus (now Spain) still mark every year in anguish the mass exodus of their ancestors by Spanish authorities to North Africa.

Tell you what--you can have Spain back the same day you give us back Turkey, Syria, Egypt and Libya. Funny, you never see articles about the "anguish" the Greeks must still feel over the conquest of Constantinople in 1453. Maybe it's time for the Turks to render them an apology, after which they can apologize to the Bulgarians, Romanians, Serbians, Croatians, Austrians, Hungarians, Kurds, Armenians, etc. etc. etc.
40 posted on 03/01/2005 7:58:27 AM PST by Antoninus (In hoc signo, vinces )
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To: concrete is my business

The Jews didn't deserve to be kicked out. The Muslims did. Hence the apology.


41 posted on 03/01/2005 8:10:45 AM PST by Defiant (This tagline has targeted 10 journalists intentionally, that I personally know of.)
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To: concrete is my business
The Moriscos, the name given to Muslims who were living in Spain after the fall of the last Muslim stronghold of Granada in 1492, were subjected to an array of persecution, torture, mass killings, forced conversions to Christianity, the notorious Spanish Inquisition and mass exodus that started in February 1502.

GOOD.

42 posted on 03/01/2005 8:16:05 AM PST by Centurion2000 (Nations do not survive by setting examples for others. Nations survive by making examples of others)
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To: concrete is my business
“It is an inalienable right to the Moriscos. It makes no sense that the Spanish king had apologized to the Jews of what is now Israel, who have nothing to do with the Sephardim (the Jews of Al-Andalus), while is reluctant to say sorry to the Moriscos’s descendants.”

FOAD you pushy creep. Get lost. Go back to the pit that spawned you

43 posted on 03/01/2005 8:30:05 AM PST by dennisw (Seeing as how this is a .44 magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world .........)
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To: livius

yes! this is exactly the kind of revealed history we need to shed light on the muslim hypocrisy!

Links! Would love to compile a webopedia of links on this important historical period.


44 posted on 03/01/2005 9:29:59 AM PST by CGVet58 (God has granted us Liberty, and we owe Him Courage in return)
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To: concrete is my business
“They used to commemorate every year these painful memories to keep the agonies of their forebears vivid,” Moroccan historian Bin Azouz Hakim, a specialist in the history of the Moriscos, told IslamOnline.net Sunday, February 27.

Vayan al carajo. Ustedes perdieron.
45 posted on 03/01/2005 9:31:56 AM PST by aruanan
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To: concrete is my business
Holy @*@&#^%#&!(*! !!!

513-year-old muslims!
More details please?

46 posted on 03/01/2005 9:48:31 AM PST by Publius6961 (The most abundant things in the universe are ignorance, stupidity and hydrogen)
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To: concrete is my business
After more than five centuries, Muslims of Al-Andalus (now Spain) still mark every year in anguish the mass exodus of their ancestors by Spanish authorities to North Africa.

The Spaniards did a really lousy job, or mohamed here might be exaggerating a wee tad?

I thought the expulsion was total. No exceptions.

When did any of them sneak back in to complain about being expelled 500+ years ago?

47 posted on 03/01/2005 9:51:19 AM PST by Publius6961 (The most abundant things in the universe are ignorance, stupidity and hydrogen)
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To: Publius6961
I thought the term was "moros" but what the hay... "seafood" is close enough...

Mahometan BUMP!

48 posted on 03/01/2005 10:06:12 AM PST by Publius6961 (The most abundant things in the universe are ignorance, stupidity and hydrogen)
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To: concrete is my business
“I think because we don’t have a powerful lobby like the Jews, who make the best use of the past to get financial gains,” Hakim said.

They are comparing events that happened 500 years ago to events that happened only 60 years ago.

49 posted on 03/01/2005 10:36:11 AM PST by nosofar
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To: concrete is my business
Let's see. I my memory of history serves me right, the muslims invaded Europe, took over Spain and were at the very gates of Paris when the Spaniards finally got tired of their nonsense and proceeded to kick their posteriors back to wherever they came from.
What kind of whiny nonsense is this, to demand an apology from Spain?! Europe should demand an apology from the muslim world for the depredations they have put up with -over the centuries.
50 posted on 03/01/2005 10:58:48 AM PST by ArmyTeach (Pray daily for our troops.)
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