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GANG LAND
Michelle Malkin ^ | Mar. 02, 2005 | Michelle Malkin

Posted on 03/02/2005 8:34:04 AM PST by JustAnotherSavage

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To: WindOracle; Sirc_Valence; All

FBI Crime Alert Most Wanted from Jan/Feb 05

http://www.fbi.gov/mostwant/alert/castaneda.htm

http://www.fbi.gov/mostwant/fugitive/jan2005/jancooper.htm

http://www.fbi.gov/mostwant/fugitive/feb2005/febmartinez.htm

http://www.fbi.gov/mostwant/fugitive/feb2005/febboureima.htm

http://www.fbi.gov/mostwant/fugitive/feb2005/febricaforte.htm

http://www.fbi.gov/mostwant/fugitive/feb2005/febvillareal.htm

http://www.fbi.gov/mostwant/fugitive/jan2005/janmontejo.htm

http://www.fbi.gov/mostwant/fugitive/jan2005/janechouafni.htm

http://www.fbi.gov/mostwant/fugitive/jan2005/janpasha.htm

http://www.fbi.gov/mostwant/fugitive/jan2005/janrosas.htm

http://www.fbi.gov/mostwant/fugitive/jan2005/jansolovyev.htm

http://www.fbi.gov/mostwant/fugitive/jan2005/janreyes.htm


101 posted on 03/03/2005 10:26:14 AM PST by JustAnotherSavage ("We are all sinners. But jerks revel in their sins." PJ O'Rourke)
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To: hushpad
Thanks. My first reflex response would be that the warm bodies crossing the border during the past 10 years or so have created the radical changes we see in Americas culture today, therefore we can not address our culture without addressing the border issue first.

No, I think it is exactly the other way around. At some point we reached a national consensus that securing the borders just wasn't important. After all, unless you live in the southwest, it might not seem like a very big deal to you. At the same time, self-interested voices were gearing up to make it seem like a positive good.

Our problems is bad speech, and the bad thinking that leads to it. The traditional American solution to bad speech is normally more speech, but that does not apply to some issues, which are easily managed by shutting down one side of the argument.

That's why I say that as long as people are thinking in terms of physical borders, and walls, and warm bodies they are mistaking the sympton for the cause.
102 posted on 03/03/2005 10:38:49 AM PST by SalukiLawyer
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To: SalukiLawyer

" After all, unless you live in the southwest, it might not seem like a very big deal to you."

Did you read the articles at the beginning of this thread?


103 posted on 03/03/2005 10:44:22 AM PST by JustAnotherSavage ("We are all sinners. But jerks revel in their sins." PJ O'Rourke)
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To: JustAnotherSavage
Did you read the articles at the beginning of this thread?

Yes, sir, I did. So it talks about New York and Chicago. I don't think illegal immigration is going to resonate with Blue State voters in the metropolitan areas, and those of us who have chosen to be rural Americans are largely spared the immediate problems associated with illegal immigration and gangs.

There are a lot of reasons I don't live in the big city. Crime is one of them. Anyway, I was just offering speculation why illegal immigration isn't such a big issue to force our political leaders to deal with it. That reason must be that they know their actions regading it won't substantially erode the voting support of their base.
104 posted on 03/03/2005 10:54:28 AM PST by SalukiLawyer
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To: FBD; Peach

This may be a good one to support.




Join Lars Larson ..... Hold Their Feet to the Fire
2005 April 23-28, 2005 Washington D.C.

A National Drive For Immigration Reform Come to Washington, DC and tell Congress in person what you have been telling them over the phone and in letters and faxes.

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You will be joining Roger Hedgecock from San Diego, along with other top rated radio talk show hosts from around the country. Here are a few questions to ask yourself: Are you ready to stop whining about immigration reform? Are you ready to do something about it? Will you get off the couch and get to work? The time for complaining is over....the time to rise up is long overdue...the time for action is NOW!!! ________________________________________________________________________ OPTIONS: (priced per person based on double occupancy) • Hotel George on the Hill – Land package from $925 per person • Hotel near Metro entrance – Land package only – from $815 • Single room add $500 on Capitol Hill and $450 for near Metro entrance • Triple and quad room rates quoted on request • If you want to make your own air and hotel reservations and just participate in the rest of the events the price is $240 per person • If you want to participate in lobbying events & banquet only, pay $185 per person All prices are based on availability upon receipt of check Airfare is not incuded. The estimated cost is $286 for round trip airfare for two from Portland (PDX) to Reagan International (DCA). For exact pricing, go to www.orbitz.com or www.travelocity.com. Space is Limited!

Go to www.kxl.com for complete details, or call our Feet to the Fire travel agent, Sandy Carver Travel at 619-338-0098 or (toll free) 866-929-0098.


105 posted on 03/03/2005 10:55:31 AM PST by JustAnotherSavage ("We are all sinners. But jerks revel in their sins." PJ O'Rourke)
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To: SalukiLawyer

" So it talks about New York and Chicago. "

First article: "As I've been reporting in previous columns and on the blog, the most notorious criminal alien gang on the scene is Mara Salvatrucha/MS-13. They're on the border, in the suburbs, and now...in our national forests. Earlier this week, I spoke with Siskiyou County, Calif., sheriff Rick Riggins, who has uncovered massive marijuana farms in our federal forests . Riggins reports that the Mexican Mafia and MS-13 paraphernalia have been discovered on the scene."

Second article:
Today Siskiyou county Sheriff Rick Riggins and Captain Mike Murphy presented a slide show and details of Marijuana growing operations on federal forest land as a warning to residents of the dangers of happening across one of these farms. These operations are spearheaded by various Latino gangs, one being the powerful, well armed MS-13 gang that began in El Salvador. Sheriff Riggins stated that his biggest problem in combating this scourge is his office being labeled, "racist".

On Sept. 11, 2004, one such farm was busted by the Sheriff with help from BLM and the forest service netting thousands of plants and several Mexicans who either held green cards or were awol from the Mexican military and in this country illegally. These raids are no simple task as the terrain is nearly insurmountable and usually remote, however one growing operation was within 2 miles of the city limits of Etna, California. Resources are limited in such small counties, with little help from federal officials, even though this organized criminal enterprise has been going on in these mountains for many years. Homeland Security says such operations are not their concern.

The gangs are back this year getting ready for next falls harvest to be distributed across the US. Their supplies and equipment will be brought in from the cities and deliveries to replenish them are undertaken at night every few weeks. The farms are guarded at all times.

Slides of the “camps” complete with a “hooch” for living were shown. Huge pits are dug, one big enough for an SUV, for garbage and waste. The trees are cut or skinned to pile “moats” around the farms to camouflage them. Black irrigation pipe is buried for miles to get water to the plants. The environment on our national lands is being degraded by these operations, destroying habitat and watershed purity.

We saw the AK-47’s, axes, shovels, a . 22 rifle with the name “ Los Pleves” scratched on the stock. We saw notebooks of the growers with markings of MS-13 and a drawing of a Lexus that one “immigrant” intended to buy with the drug profits.

Most of the farms appear to be run by the same organizations mostly through the Mexican Mafia year after year. Though a few are busted, a substantive dent has not been made and they know they can operate here more safely and profitably than in Mexico and there is no worry of getting the product back into the states.

Across the border in Oregon, the story is the same. The Sheriffs of Jackson, Josephine and Klamath County work together to find the farms and arrest the perpetrators. All have been Mexican so far, most with green cards. These same gangs also brew Methanphetimine to finance their organized crime activities during off season.

We do not need yet another “guest worker” program to supply dangerous gangs with recruits. We need to find out why these people were ever allowed in this country in the first place and how to keep more of them out.

COMING TO A RURAL COMMUNITY NEAR YOU!


106 posted on 03/03/2005 10:58:56 AM PST by JustAnotherSavage ("We are all sinners. But jerks revel in their sins." PJ O'Rourke)
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To: SalukiLawyer
That reason must be that they know their actions regading it won't substantially erode the voting support of their base.<<<

I think this statement is right on. Thats why Republicans have my vote, but have lost all voluntary donations to the party. I was hoping to gather a lot of of together to further the "no border control, no money" petition, but see post #105 - looks worthy.
107 posted on 03/03/2005 11:05:11 AM PST by hushpad
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To: JustAnotherSavage
We need to find out why these people were ever allowed in this country in the first place and how to keep more of them out

We know the answer to the first question. They were allowed in because the benefits they bring to certain interests outweight the political downside in society more interested in other things.

As for "how to keep more of them out," there is no political party willing to even run the idea up the flagpole to see how many Americans would wake up, wipe the drool off their chins and and even consider whether or not to salute.

I respect your views, but I respectfully submit you're wasting your time on this issue. It is not a political issue, and will not become a political issue because there are no politicians who will risk the fallout of taking a stand on an issue where they can be so easily linked to marginalized ideas. At the best you will get vague expressions of concern, maybe the establishment of a commission, and some window-dressing reform.
108 posted on 03/03/2005 11:09:50 AM PST by SalukiLawyer
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To: JustAnotherSavage; Peach; Travis McGee; skeeter; HiJinx; blackie; Marine Inspector; F16Fighter; ...

PING:
A NATIONAL DRIVE FOR IMMIGRATION REFORM in D.C.
April 23- 28, 2005

This is Roger Hedgecock's event.

http://www.rogerhedgecock.com/travel_current.html

A NATIONAL DRIVE FOR IMMIGRATION REFORM-
Hold Their Feet to the Fire XI with Roger Hedgecock - April 23- 28, 2005


109 posted on 03/03/2005 11:21:23 AM PST by FBD ("A nation without borders is not a nation." -- Ronald Reagan)
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To: FBD
HEDGECOCK/MALKIN IMMIGRATION REFORM BUMP!
110 posted on 03/03/2005 11:26:50 AM PST by F16Fighter
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To: FBD

Thanks for getting that information for us, FBD!


111 posted on 03/03/2005 11:28:06 AM PST by Peach (The Clintons pardoned more terrorists than they ever captured or killed.)
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To: F16Fighter

Please keep that info posted on all illegal immigration related threads, thanks!


112 posted on 03/03/2005 11:28:29 AM PST by FBD ("A nation without borders is not a nation." -- Ronald Reagan)
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To: Peach

you're welcome, FRiend.

Regards


113 posted on 03/03/2005 11:29:17 AM PST by FBD ("A nation without borders is not a nation." -- Ronald Reagan)
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To: FBD; F16Fighter; All

Poll still up!!

Do you believe giving legal status to illegal aliens working on U.S. farms encourages more illegal immigration?

Yes 91% 4319 votes
No 9% 411 votes
Total: 4730 votes

http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/lou.dobbs.tonight/


Snip from last night's program:



DOBBS: That brings us to the subject of our poll tonight. "Do you believe giving legal status to illegal aliens working on our nation's farms would encourage more illegal immigration? Yes or no?" Cast your vote at loudobbs.com. We'll have the results later in the broadcast.

Taking a look now at some of your thoughts. Betty Blair in Kerrville, Texas, "Why should the Mexican government take care of its own citizens by creating jobs for them when they've got a neighbor like the United States that will do it for them? The immigrants come and work in America and send the money back to their families in Mexico. The Mexican government doesn't have to do anything to provide for its own. They are even looking to the United States to put these folks on Social Security and provide for them."

Bill in Warren, Michigan, "CAFTA will, much like NAFTA, cause Americans to lose their jobs, make CEOs richer and add another nail into the coffin of the middle class."

Paul King of Meadville, Pennsylvania. "No more free trade agreements as we in America have been subjected to, until they become fair to the American worker."

We love hearing from you. Send us your thoughts at loudobbs.com.


114 posted on 03/03/2005 12:22:15 PM PST by JustAnotherSavage ("We are all sinners. But jerks revel in their sins." PJ O'Rourke)
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To: F16Fighter; FBD; All

Check this out. The gangs are using the web!


Thursday, March 03, 2005
Gangs Staking Out Turf on the Web- From Mercury News
By Crystal Carreon, Mercury News

Sal Rojas was working on his computer science degree when he created BrownPride.com to celebrate Latino culture. His site quickly evolved into a popular forum for urban expression, showcasing mural art, music and fashion.

But it has also become the target of ``high-tech taggers'' and ``cyberbangers.''

As authorities crack down on gang activity on the streets, self-proclaimed gangsters are going online, turning portions of Web sites -- such as BrownPride.com -- into virtual turfs where rivals exchange threats and ``throw up'' their numbers and neighborhood names under the anonymity of the Internet.

``You create something for good, but people twist it,'' said Rojas, 32, whose site's message board has been overrun by suspected Norteños and Sureños.

Law enforcement officials across the country have noticed the surge in suspected gang members using the Internet to glorify the lifestyle and, in some instances, recruit. Just as some gangsters tag buildings with spray paint, these online taggers leave their mark in cyberspace. But, given the anonymous nature of the Web, authorities admit it is nearly impossible to gauge whether a posting, blog or Instant Message comes from actual gang members or wannabes.

Los Angeles police detective Chuck Zeglin first noticed the phenomenon four years ago, and estimated then that about a third of the thousands of gang-related Web sites were operated by the Crips, Bloods, Norteños and Sureños, and members of various Asian and other gangs. He now believes that number is growing as Internet access becomes ubiquitous and increasingly mobile.

``Gangs are definitely keeping up with the technology of the times,'' said Jared Lewis, director of Know Gangs, a Wisconsin-based firm that offers training and resources on gangs to police agencies. ``This is a new generation of gangsters.''

Bowing to pressure from police, Internet providers have shut down several of the more notorious gang sites in recent years, Lewis said. So ``cyberbanging'' has moved to other sites such as BrownPride.com; vidaenelvalle.com, which bills itself as the ``Latino Voice of the San Joaquin Valley'' offering sports highlights, news and feature stories, among other content; and Northern-Ridaz.com, which features new releases from Bay Area rap artists.

But law enforcement officials acknowledge that much of the cyber-traffic remains under the radar of police, including gang detectives in the tech-savvy Bay Area.

Lt. Phan S. Ngo, of San Jose's gang investigations unit, said his officers are aware of purported gang activity online but do not regularly monitor the Internet for clues. It's not a priority, because officers have not come across any instances of gang-related violence in San Jose that stemmed from a Web site, he said.

Traditional gang investigations usually involve tapping phone lines or surveillance of certain neighborhoods. Seizing computers is seen more often in cases of Internet fraud (news - web sites) or sex-related crimes against children -- not gangs.

But Lewis believes that by not looking online officers could miss spotting clues to gang violence.

Lewis, a former Modesto police officer, said he read message boards on a rapper's Web site to help solve a gang homicide in 2001. The site piqued his interest after he spotted familiar city street names and monikers that were later linked to murder suspects.

Last May, vitriol exchanged between members of two rival gangs in an Internet chat room led to a street brawl in a Dallas suburb.

Gabe Morales, author of ``Varrio Warfare: Violence in the Latino Community,'' said his Web page, www.angelfire.com/biz4/stopvarriowar/gps.html, doesn't have a chat room or guest book because he doesn't want to be tagged by gang members. He suspects the majority of cyberbanging is done by unsupervised teenagers at home or school. Parents, he said, are often computer illiterate and are largely unaware of what their children are doing online.

``These kids are computer-savvy,'' he said. ``They may be better equipped with a keyboard than with an aerosol can. It's a freedom of speech thing, but it's not positive.''

``Clowner,'' whose e-mail address includes the number 13 -- for Sureños -- recently posted a message laced with expletives on a Web site originally intended to showcase Latino art and music.

``Yeah, I shout out for the hood,'' he told the Mercury News in an e-mail. ``It's family, and I hate red.''

He explained that he had been in a fight at school with someone dressed in red and went online to continue the challenge.

``Clowner'' posted his message on a board that also talked about the recent preliminary hearing for suspected Norteños Malik Alayube and James Ortega, who is the youngest person tried as an adult for murder in Santa Clara County history. The two teenagers allegedly killed two rival gang members at an East San Jose Jack in the Box last year. The posting denigrated Ortega and Alayube, mentioning a rival gang: ``Blue ragin here in San Jose. It's Sur X3 . . . Evil side of So Jo!''

Another posting praised drive-by shootings: ``Click, click, bang, bang puro Norte.''

Rojas, a Web master based in Orange County, said he was bothered that his site -- created to inspire and empower -- now hosts a scrolling log of gang challenges. He shut down a live chat room about six months ago after the popular feature -- which had sparked romances and friendships -- had degenerated into a ``hate fest,'' mostly between Norteños and Sureños.

``I wish everyone had the opportunity to study and go to college . . . but we're caught up in the daily struggle,'' he said of some of his site's visitors. ``They hate without even knowing the reason why they hate.''


http://gangwar.com/blog/


115 posted on 03/03/2005 1:44:46 PM PST by JustAnotherSavage ("We are all sinners. But jerks revel in their sins." PJ O'Rourke)
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To: SalukiLawyer

"At the best you will get vague expressions of concern, maybe the establishment of a commission, and some window-dressing reform."

Thank you for giving a reasoned response and yes, you are correct so far as our "leaders" go. However, you'll be surprised how many of them are going to get voted out in 2006. This may not be affecting your life, consider yourself lucky, but the rest of the citizenry is sick of it.
Thankfully there are only a few who look at this situation the way you do. The people of this country have changed the "status quo" before and they'll do it again.



116 posted on 03/03/2005 2:04:24 PM PST by JustAnotherSavage ("We are all sinners. But jerks revel in their sins." PJ O'Rourke)
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To: Peach

Amen. Dont ya hate it when people seem to shoot down someones desire to help fix something without first giving it a chance? I think Laura Bush is only saying that for years now boys have been left behind and now she's trying to change that in the schools and hopefully the future of the boys will be better. I wish her luck and pray for her success so that the boys will think better of themselves and strive for better things for themselves.


117 posted on 03/03/2005 2:23:34 PM PST by cubreporter (I trust and admire Rush. He has done more for this country than he will ever know. God bless him.)
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To: cubreporter

Hey, I wish her all the luck in the world and sincerely hope she NEVER has to come face to face with the kind of gangs Michelle Malkin is talking about here. It's just really sad that the President or his circle doesn't seem to know or care that there are armed FOREIGN gangs living in our national forests terrorizing the local CITIZENS to death.

It's about priorities. Theirs are not the same as the average US citizen's. I have no idea if it's ignorance or apathy. I can't imagine what it is.


118 posted on 03/03/2005 3:32:26 PM PST by JustAnotherSavage ("We are all sinners. But jerks revel in their sins." PJ O'Rourke)
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To: JustAnotherSavage
THE TEETH OF THE TIGER by Tom Clancy

pgs 58-57 (touched up)

"So?" Ernesto asked.

"It was interesting," Pablo replied, lighting a Dominican cigar.

"What do they want of us?" his boss asked.

"Mohammed began by talking about our common interests and our common enemies."

"If we tried to do business over there, we would lose our heads," Ernesto observed. With him, it was always business.

"I pointed that out. He replied that theirs is a small market, hardly worth our time. They merely export raw materials. And that is true. But he can help us, he said, with the new European market. Mohammed tells me that his organization has a good base of operations in Greece, and with the demise of international borders in Europe that would be the most logical point of entry for our consignments. They will not charge us for their technical assistance. They say they wish to establish goodwill only."

"They must want our help very badly," Ernesto observed.

"They have their own considerable resources, as they have demonstrated,jefe. But they seem to need some expertise for smuggling weapons in addition to people. In any case, they ask little, and they offer much."

"And what they offer will make our business more convenient?" Ernesto wondered.

"It will certainly make the Yanquis devote their resources to different tasks."

"It could create havoc in their country, but the political effects could be serious..."

"Jefe, the pressure they put upon us now can scarcely get worse, can it?"

"This new norteamericano president is a fool, but dangerous even so." "And so, we can have our new friends distract him, jefe," Pablo pointed out. "We will not even use any of our assets to do so. We have little risk, and the potential reward is large, isn't it?"

"I see that, but, Pablo, if it is traced to us, the cost could be serious."

"That's true, but again, how much additional pressure can they put on us?" Pablo asked. "They're attacking our political allies through the Bogota government, and if they succeed in producing the effect they desire then the harm to us will be very serious indeed. You and the other members of the Council might become fugitives in our own land," the Cartel's intelligence chief warned. He didn't have to add that such an eventuality would take much of the fun out of the immense riches the Council members enjoyed. Money has little utility without a comfortable place to spend it. "There is an adage in that part of the world: The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Jefe, if there is a major downside to this proposal venture, I do not see it."

"You think I should meet with this man, then?"

"Si, Ernesto. There should be no harm. He is more wanted by the gringos than we are. If we fear betrayal, then he should fear it even more so, shouldn't he? And in any case, we will take proper precautions."

"Very well, Pablo. I will discuss this with the Council with a recommendation that we hear him out," Ernesto conceded. "How difficult would it be to set up?"

"I would expect him to fly through Buenos Aires. Surely he knows how to travel safely [...] Speaks English like an Englishman, and that is a passport all its own."

"Through Greece, eh? Our product?"

"His organization has used Greece as a sally port for many years. Jefe, it's easier to smuggle our product than a group of men, and so on first inspection their methods and assets seem to be adaptable to our purposes. Our own people will have to examine them, of course." "Any idea what his plans for North America might be?"

"I did not ask, jefe. It does not really concern us."

119 posted on 03/03/2005 3:39:48 PM PST by Sirc_Valence (I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those that threaten.. my brother)
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To: JustAnotherSavage

Well, I think her goal is to get the kids while they are younger BEFORE they choose to join a gang. I would hope she nor me nor you or anyone ever comes in contact with bad gangs like Michelle is talking about.


120 posted on 03/03/2005 3:42:21 PM PST by cubreporter (I trust and admire Rush. He has done more for this country than he will ever know. God bless him.)
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To: cubreporter

"I would hope she nor me nor you or anyone ever comes in contact with bad gangs like Michelle is talking about."

They're within 10 miles of me. What do you think my odds are? Too many of us have already been shot at. I moved here because my former state/neighborhood had been turned into an illegal barrio.

Read the second article after Michelles. They are all over No. Calif. and So. Oregon. We are real breathing human beings here putting up with this. There's more articles in the thread. I promise you'll learn something. Homeland security says it's not their problem. There is one DEA agent within 500 miles. Sometimes they'll let the forest service help the sheriff cut down a crop. I should say dig up the crop. The feds insist on each plant having a root ball on the end, because it's easier to count. The feds will prosecute the arrests. We have a federal government full of paper pushers and campaign hacks.


121 posted on 03/03/2005 3:55:16 PM PST by JustAnotherSavage ("We are all sinners. But jerks revel in their sins." PJ O'Rourke)
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To: JustAnotherSavage
...Shortly thereafter, while being interviewed by the Atlanta Police, Pasha was told that he was being charged with murder. Upon hearing this news, Pasha excused himself to use the restroom and was not seen again

In late 2000, Pasha was arrested in Brooklyn, New York, and was returned to the state of Georgia. He was then diagnosed with medical problems and the charges against him were dismissed. In October of 2003, information was received that Pasha's medical condition had been misdiagnosed...

Is this guy (the 4th one from the bottom) some kind of magician/hypnotist?

122 posted on 03/03/2005 4:07:28 PM PST by Sirc_Valence (I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those that threaten.. my brother)
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To: JustAnotherSavage

Wow. Well I hope you and your family and your neighbors stay safe.


123 posted on 03/03/2005 5:14:32 PM PST by cubreporter (I trust and admire Rush. He has done more for this country than he will ever know. God bless him.)
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To: JustAnotherSavage

People thought the Mafia was a problem – until the Colombians showed up.
People thought the Bloods and Crips were a problem until…
Our home grown bad guys are comparatively benign compared to what we are getting from the 3rd World.


124 posted on 03/03/2005 5:21:50 PM PST by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink.)
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To: JustAnotherSavage
I doubt "warm and fuzzy" will solve anything in gangland.

Get this guy on the case! HAHAHA!

125 posted on 03/03/2005 5:24:51 PM PST by Future Snake Eater (The plan was simple, like my brother-in-law Phil. But unlike Phil, this plan just might work.)
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To: R. Scott

"Our home grown bad guys are comparatively benign compared to what we are getting from the 3rd World."

It's been interesting listening to and talking to several sheriffs. On TV tonight one of them said if the public had any idea how bad this situation is they'd be stunned. They don't have time to deal with our own nutcases because the illegal/foreign element is taking all their resources.


126 posted on 03/03/2005 6:51:18 PM PST by JustAnotherSavage ("We are all sinners. But jerks revel in their sins." PJ O'Rourke)
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To: JustAnotherSavage

FTAH


127 posted on 03/03/2005 10:27:54 PM PST by Robert Lomax
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To: JustAnotherSavage
… if the public had any idea how bad this situation is they'd be stunned.

There are times when ignorance is bliss.
128 posted on 03/04/2005 2:35:19 AM PST by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink.)
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To: occutegirl
I wonder if they try to do that with like a lawnmower or a weed-eater... naaaaa.
129 posted on 03/05/2005 10:47:20 PM PST by TLI ( . . . ITINERIS IMPENDEO VALHALLA . . . . . .)
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