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GANG LAND
Michelle Malkin ^ | Mar. 02, 2005 | Michelle Malkin

Posted on 03/02/2005 8:34:04 AM PST by JustAnotherSavage

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To: JustAnotherSavage; NewRomeTacitus; wardaddy; FITZ; JackelopeBreeder; Squantos; dennisw; FBD; ...
Amazing. I just have to break in and post.

We are under attack by a virtual insurgent army of terroristic criminal alien invaders, and the Whitehouse breaks its promise, and refuses to fund even a pitiful 2,000 more Border Patrol agents.

Amazing times we are living in. And one question is, will this forum even allow this discussion to take place in full, without deleting links to specific terroristic threats made by the Voz De Aztlan, such as those posted in reply #47?

I hope that FR has grown up in the past couple of weeks, and will not stifle this debate, which directly impacts national security.
51 posted on 03/02/2005 11:47:50 AM PST by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: EdReform; Carry_Okie; farmfriend; All

This may be a "pro-pot" site, but it has some more info on the subject:

The Pot Farms of Sequoia

By Benito Ortiz, Pacific News Service. Posted March 1, 2005.

Growers using national parks to illegally cultivate marijuana often recruit undocumented farmhands to work their fields – and let them take the rap when they're caught.

This piece was translated by Miguel A. Báez and Mónica Monroe, and originally appeared in Noticero Semanal.

Sequoia National Park authorities have found at least 40 marijuana fields in the last two years. Last year, five undocumented Mexican immigrants were arrested in one of the fields, according to a National Park Service investigator who did not want to be identified.

"About 95 percent of the people who grow marijuana in this park are illegal aliens," the agent said. "The illegals just work in the fields but the people who really run them are first- and second-generation Mexican Americans who recruit these illegals, promising them $15,000 cash and sometimes more to grow marijuana for just four months," he said.

These undocumented immigrants are among a group of unemployed day laborers who can be found outside large hardware and construction stores in the San Joaquin Valley, waiting for someone to hire them for a day's work. Many of them used to work in the fields of the Central Valley.

"Some of them don't even know they were hired to grow marijuana until they get to the park," the agent said.

But the land owners don't keep their promises to the field workers. Many undocumented farmhands never see their money, either because they get arrested before getting paid or because their bosses disappear with all the drugs, the agent said.

Nearly all the marijuana that has been found and confiscated was grown near rivers or streams on the hillsides. Between 10,000 to 20,000 marijuana plants are grown on each field, whose average size is about one acre. Walking through these areas is difficult because of the roughness and inaccessibility of the land. The vast vegetation of pine trees, oak trees, bushes and other plants provide these fields with shade and protection. This makes the authorities' job harder. Even with the use of helicopters, finding marijuana fields in the Sequoia National Park is not easy.

How Growers Operate

Growing marijuana in the Sequoia National Park has become a highly sophisticated process.

"Obviously there are more people behind this and they are the ones that pay for all of this," the agent said. "We have learned that the people in charge have connections with cartels in Mexico. These cartels send highly trained people to teach the undocumented immigrants how to grow marijuana, and how to find the perfect area for the fields," he added.

The irrigation system in nearly all the fields is sophisticated; a drip system provides water to each plant through a hidden underground irrigation pipes installed in rivers, or under running water coming from the mountains. Water is pumped uphill through pipes that are activated by solar timers.

"They start growing marijuana between March and April," said Richard Thiel, one of the park's employees.

The undocumented immigrants recruited to grow marijuana live in the fields during the four months it takes the plants to grow.

"They live in tents and have drinking water and bathrooms," the agent said. "Besides the workers, there are also one or two armed men," said the agent. These guards don't work in the fields; they just watch the workers to make sure they don't run away and watch for outsiders.

"Every ten days people come to bring them food, fertilizers and pesticides," said the agent said. Sometimes the suppliers don't come for many days and the workers have to go for days without eating. Many of the people who bring supplies to them are women with children, probably to deter the authorities, according to the investigator.

"But these women, knowing that what they are doing is wrong, ignore the fact that they could also be arrested, in addition to having their car confiscated and their children taken away," the investigator said.

How Authorities Operate

"It is a crime to take food and leave it by the side of the road," said the agent in charge of the investigation. The crime is even worse when weapons, fertilizers and pesticides are brought into the park.

Currently, the Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA) is investigating one of the suppliers with the goal of finding the leaders of the operation.

"As long as we're just arresting the ones who grow marijuana in the park, we're not going to solve the problem," the investigator said. "We are going directly for the people at the top."

"There are forest rangers that are trained to lead investigations, detentions and also to continue with the investigations after the arrests are made," he said. To make the search of the marijuana fields more effective, the park authorities are now using a tracking system, utilizing new and different tactics.

"We will install electronic sensors, satellite detectors and other innovative techniques that have been designed in the last few years," the agent said.

Meanwhile, some groups are trying to make growing marijuana in national parks a federal crime.

"We are trying to charge the detainees with federal crimes and not just for illegal violations, especially since Sequoia Park is a national park under the protection of the federal government," the agent said.

Punishment and sentences

"Planting and growing marijuana in national parks is a crime punishable by up to 20 years in federal prison and a charge of conspiracy that can add five to 10 years," said Alexandra Picavet, public information officer of the National Park Service of the U.S. Department of Interior, assigned to the Sequoia National Park.

"And if there are charges of firearm possession, this adds 10 more years to the original sentence," Picavet said. She added that the suppliers that are arrested for conspiracy can be sentenced to five to 10 years in prison, in addition to having their car confiscated and losing custody of their children.

Nobody knows exactly when Sequoia National Park started to be used to grow marijuana, but authorities estimate that this has been going on for many years. The discovery of the first field at the beginning of 2001 was purely coincidental, according to Thiel.

Thiel said that one day a forest ranger noticed water flowing out of the ground on one of the park's many small trails. He started to investigate and discovered that the water was coming out of a leak in an underground pipe.

"He tried to tear it out of the ground but the pipe was much longer than he first thought so he continued tearing it out of the ground until he came to a huge marijuana field," Thiel said. "For his own security, and also as to not alert anyone nearby, he immediately left to alert the authorities," he said.

Hikers have also found fields in the park that they reported to authorities. Other than confiscating drugs, authorities had confiscated an AK47, shotguns, pistols and .22 caliber rifles.

Meanwhile, the remains of fertilizer and pesticides that the marijuana growers are using have started to cause ecological problems in the forests after they mix with the river water, according to Picavet.

"This is a problem that, if not prevented immediately, can with time cause irreversible harm to plant and animal life in the park," she said.
http://www.alternet.org/drugreporter/21385/


52 posted on 03/02/2005 11:49:54 AM PST by JustAnotherSavage ("We are all sinners. But jerks revel in their sins." PJ O'Rourke)
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To: Travis McGee; holdonnow

"Amazing times we are living in. And one question is, will this forum even allow this discussion to take place in full, without deleting links to specific terroristic threats made by the Voz De Aztlan, such as those posted in reply #47?

I hope that FR has grown up in the past couple of weeks, and will not stifle this debate, which directly impacts national security."

I wondered if that site on post 47 would be allowed. It's always good to take a look at the other "side".

I find it amazing that American citizens on US soil are threatened by FOREIGN ORGANIZED CRIME.


53 posted on 03/02/2005 11:57:12 AM PST by JustAnotherSavage ("We are all sinners. But jerks revel in their sins." PJ O'Rourke)
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To: hushpad

Just call your congressmen at their offices if you don't want to write.

But we do need to do something and an organized freep isn't a bad idea at all. Just don't know how to go about it.


54 posted on 03/02/2005 11:57:14 AM PST by Peach (The Clintons pardoned more terrorists than they ever captured or killed.)
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To: Peach

"But we do need to do something and an organized freep isn't a bad idea at all. Just don't know how to go about it."

If you figure it out, let me know and I'll do what I can, not sure FR would sanction such.


55 posted on 03/02/2005 12:02:56 PM PST by JustAnotherSavage ("We are all sinners. But jerks revel in their sins." PJ O'Rourke)
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To: Peach

Just call your congressmen at their offices if you don't want to write.

But we do need to do something and an organized freep isn't a bad idea at all. Just don't know how to go about it.<<<


I have written (and personally called) my congressman and the Governors office. Sorry you misunderstood me. I was actually talking about some sort of organized Freep. (See what I mean about not being able to "write", meaning I have a hard time putting ideas into words.)

Is anyone on this thread interested in an organized freep or written campaign about withholding voluntary donations until we are actually heard?


56 posted on 03/02/2005 12:05:50 PM PST by hushpad
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To: hushpad

I'm in.


57 posted on 03/02/2005 12:09:38 PM PST by JustAnotherSavage ("We are all sinners. But jerks revel in their sins." PJ O'Rourke)
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To: JustAnotherSavage

Yep, sometimes you have to hold your nose and read what creeps like the Aztlaners are saying, if only for their intell value in determining coming threats.

The see-no-evil "Ostrich Defense" is pretty stupid.


58 posted on 03/02/2005 12:11:23 PM PST by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: TheForceOfOne

Call Halliburton or one of its subsidiaries, Kellogg Brown & Root, maybe? That would make the leftie-liberals just NUTS.


59 posted on 03/02/2005 12:13:26 PM PST by alloysteel ("Master of the painfully obvious.....")
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To: JustAnotherSavage

I saw it alright.


60 posted on 03/02/2005 12:17:23 PM PST by international american (Tagline now fireproof....purchased from "Conspiracy Guy Custom Taglines"LLC)
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To: 1_Inch_Group; Calpernia

ping


61 posted on 03/02/2005 1:08:45 PM PST by JustAnotherSavage ("We are all sinners. But jerks revel in their sins." PJ O'Rourke)
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To: JustAnotherSavage

I have no clue about gangs, or anything related to them first hand. All I know I get from the media. I'm NO expert.

But again we have a boarder issue where Bush (although we love him) is doing the political thing and trying to ride both sides of the fence. CRACK DOWN MR. PRESIDENT! The Latino community will cry, the liberals will have something to scream about, but it's the right thing to do. The Mexican boarder is a security issue. Subtly downplaying it is not in our nation’s best interest.

I see this as a political issue purely. From a technical and tactical perspective I see no real challenge in sealing up the boarder. With modern sensor technology, aircraft, ground vehicles, NVGs/Thermals, barrier options…… it should be possible to seal off this area. We can do this even without resorting to draconian methods. I don’t think it would even take such a large effort to do. Just no one (Including our Bush) is willing to touch this issue.

Red6


62 posted on 03/02/2005 1:38:46 PM PST by Red6
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To: Vaquero

".it aint worth the few votes."

It certainly isn't, but the politico's seem to be staking all on that idea.

By the way, with a green card, one can vote in local elections. I don't know what would be keeping them from voting in national elections once they have a ballot.


63 posted on 03/02/2005 1:43:45 PM PST by JustAnotherSavage ("We are all sinners. But jerks revel in their sins." PJ O'Rourke)
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To: JustAnotherSavage

bump


64 posted on 03/02/2005 1:55:05 PM PST by Calpernia (Breederville.com)
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Comment #65 Removed by Moderator

To: hushpad
They pay no attention.

I donated to the BC04 campaign this year. I turned down the RNC and every time they called, I told them why (mainly because they withdrew funds from Tim Michels at a critical point in the campaign, based on polling, and then ineffectively returned a small portion late in the campaign when polling showed Tim still had a chance...too little, too late and the PR on the w/drawal hurt him). Flash forward to last week and I get the ranch photo of W and Laura, addressed to me, thanking me for my RNC contributions.

To make it worse: my campaign donations came from a couple of different checking accounts and one credit card. All 3 are in slightly different variants of my legal name. During the campaign, I noticed that I was getting 3 different copies of each campaign spiel(I got 3 separate photos each time they were sent and 3 Christmas cards, etc). I purposely sent the donation requests back (with no money), pointing out they were from the same person and that they needed to merge their mailing lists by address to conserve resources.

None of it made a dent. I think it is all automated. We have much more $$ than the Donks and I still get requests for money to all 3 names at the same address.
66 posted on 03/02/2005 2:01:59 PM PST by reformedliberal
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To: reformedliberal

"None of it made a dent"


It will when enough people do it. Many folks are changing their registrations to "independent". Pols do notice when their numbers go down.


67 posted on 03/02/2005 2:07:29 PM PST by JustAnotherSavage ("We are all sinners. But jerks revel in their sins." PJ O'Rourke)
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To: EdReform

It's airing on Sunday.


68 posted on 03/02/2005 2:55:50 PM PST by HiJinx (www .ProudPatriots.org ~ Operation Easter/Passover ~ February 15 - March 4, 2005)
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To: JustAnotherSavage
Another dynamite post and thread mon.

Your post #47 should be required reading for the uninitiated.

This MS13 gang most likely has ties in with other Marxist revolutionary gangs in Central and South America, who also use drugs to finance their revolutionary activities. Don't be surprised if thugs such as Hugo Chavez funnel money to groups such as MS13 to instigate social instability in this country. Now who are Chavez's silent partners?...well thats another story too.

This is one reason why I say that the immigration issue is part of a much bigger global agenda.
69 posted on 03/02/2005 3:41:16 PM PST by Dat Mon (will work for clever tagline)
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To: Dat Mon
"This is one reason why I say that the immigration issue is part of a much bigger global agenda."

There is hardly an aspect of our lives that the problem isn't touching by now. From healthcare and social security to our very safety and sovereignty.
70 posted on 03/02/2005 3:46:43 PM PST by JustAnotherSavage ("We are all sinners. But jerks revel in their sins." PJ O'Rourke)
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To: JustAnotherSavage; 1_Inch_Group; 2sheep; 2Trievers; 3AngelaD; 4.1O dana super trac pak; 4Freedom; ..
Click to see other threads related to illegal aliens in America
Click to FR-mail me for addition or removal

Anyone even remotely connected with the Minuteman Project needs to see this, and get the word out...

71 posted on 03/02/2005 4:25:30 PM PST by HiJinx (www .ProudPatriots.org ~ Operation Easter/Passover ~ February 15 - March 4, 2005)
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To: HiJinx; All

Malkin's article also appeared here today:

http://www.jewishworldreview.com/michelle/malkin030205.php3

She also has on her website this little tidbit:

AT LEAST WE CAN KEEP UNDOCUMENTED COWS OUT
By Michelle Malkin · March 02, 2005 05:01 PM

AP reports, "Border Not Reopening to Canadian Cows Yet:"

A federal judge Wednesday blocked the reopening of the U.S. border to cattle and expanded beef imports from Canada because of mad-cow fears.

The U.S. Department of Agriculture had planned to reopen the border on Monday. But after a U.S. livestock group objected, U.S. District Judge Richard Cebull granted a temporary order preventing the action.

R-CALF United Stockgrowers of America, based in Billings, had argued that the USDA plan would pose a risk to both consumers and U.S. cattle producers. The organization asked the judge to block the reopening until its lawsuit is heard.

The group's attorney, Cliff Edwards, told the judge that it would be "insane" to allow the import of cattle from a country that has already reported two new cases of mad cow disease this year.


72 posted on 03/02/2005 4:31:56 PM PST by JustAnotherSavage ("We are all sinners. But jerks revel in their sins." PJ O'Rourke)
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To: HiJinx

An AC-130 gunship could clear out those camps quickly.


73 posted on 03/02/2005 5:29:04 PM PST by SAMWolf ("This Tagline has been removed by U.S. Customs")
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To: SAMWolf

The sheriffs are able to spot many of the farms from the air, but don't have the manpower to go in and clear and arrest most of them. If we were to "drop" something on them, the enviros would just go nuts, but you should see what happens to the terrain with these growing operations. They will enter a heavily forested area and skin all the trees on the lower parts, to save the protective canopy. The land is skinned of all vegetation. It's a mess.


74 posted on 03/02/2005 5:38:42 PM PST by JustAnotherSavage ("We are all sinners. But jerks revel in their sins." PJ O'Rourke)
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To: JustAnotherSavage

bttt for later


75 posted on 03/02/2005 6:02:24 PM PST by 4.1O dana super trac pak (Stop the open borders death cult)
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To: Peach
How about writing some letters to the editor, calling your local police department, writing letters to Congress, etc.

Many people have been doing that on a regular basis for several years. The White House and most Senators and Reps don't bother to respond. They talk about homeland security in TV photo-ops, but they don't practice what they preach.

Funny thing is, they're not living with the mess like those of us in the border states are.

76 posted on 03/02/2005 6:18:59 PM PST by janetgreen
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To: JustAnotherSavage

USA TODAY is allowed on a link-only basis. Thanks.


77 posted on 03/02/2005 6:39:22 PM PST by Lead Moderator
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To: Dad yer funny

there will be a certain % that will play this/us like a violin


78 posted on 03/02/2005 6:43:55 PM PST by Dad yer funny
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To: HiJinx; JustAnotherSavage
We are being warned. Now what...wait until people die from attack on our U.S. Soil until someone in DC notices "Houston, we have a problem?"

Does this not constitute as "terrorism?"

God help the Border Patrol, Minute Men, and the local ranchers around Tombstone, and protect them on April 1st.

79 posted on 03/02/2005 6:53:26 PM PST by kstewskis (you've got to have a mind before you lose it...)
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To: alloysteel
I think a state by state contracted border patrol, bid on by security based companies who receive the contracts funded by a tax shared by all tax payers and supplemented by grants from the Federal Government by roll backs on funds designated for the "No Child Left Behind Act" or other areas where funds could be transfered for better use in order not to increase Federal tax. The security companies would be performance based and subject to loss of contract if requirements are not met. Companies that perform well in other states will be allowed to bid on contracts for other states. The current Border Patrol would concentrate on legal points of access for more thorough searches and background checks with no reduction in manpower, only redeployment. No taxes obtained for border security will be allowed transfer or borrowing against, and surplus funding will be used for future contracts or returned to tax payers as tax relief.
80 posted on 03/02/2005 6:55:29 PM PST by TheForceOfOne (Social Security I thought pyramid schemes were illegal!)
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To: Lead Moderator

Thank you!


81 posted on 03/02/2005 7:09:51 PM PST by JustAnotherSavage ("We are all sinners. But jerks revel in their sins." PJ O'Rourke)
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To: JustAnotherSavage

You're welcome.


82 posted on 03/02/2005 7:11:17 PM PST by Lead Moderator
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To: Peach

>>What would you like the White House to do?<<

ENFORCE THE IMMIGRATION LAWS!


83 posted on 03/02/2005 8:11:03 PM PST by B4Ranch
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To: Peach; JustAnotherSavage

Hi Peach.

Good to see your always polite and positive posts.

I heard there is going to be a rally in DC by a bunch of syndicated talk show hosts later on this month, (on illegal immigration)

Roger Hedgecock is in charge of it, I believe.

Regards


84 posted on 03/02/2005 8:18:28 PM PST by FBD ("A nation without borders is not a nation." -- Ronald Reagan)
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To: JustAnotherSavage

http://aztlan.net/salvatruchas_vs_minutemen.htm

Mara Salvatruchas to take on
the Minutemen vigilantes
by
Ernesto Cienfuegos
La Voz de Aztlan

Los Angeles, Alta California - March 1, 2005 - (ACN) It looks like there is going to be a "showdown at OK corral" on April 1st in Tombstone, Arizona. A high level leader of the Mara Salvatruchas, Ebner Anivel Rivera-Paz, has issued orders, from federal prison, to members of his extremely violent organization to teach the Minutemen vigilantes a lesson they will never forget, La Voz de Aztlan has learned.

The Mara Salvatruchas (MS-13) are a consequence of USA policies in Central America and are just another example of "the chickens coming home to roost". Its members are the sons of immigrants from El Salvador and other Central American countries that were forced to flee because of the CIA instigated war during the Reagan Administration that completely destroyed the physical, economic, social, religious and cultural infrastructure of the region. MS-13 was founded in Los Angeles by the offspring of the immigrants for protection. Later, many of the members were deported back to Central America where they expanded their operations and joined up with former members of the Farabundo Martí National Liberation Front (FMLN).

Today, the Mara Salvatruchas have grown immensely in numbers and their network has expanded through Mexico all the way to Canada. The extremely violent group controls large portions of the drug, stolen vehicle and immigrant smuggling operations along the US/Mexico border and will not put up with clowns like the Minutemen vigilantes. The amateurish Minutemen may be in for a big surprise on April Fools Day and on the subsequent days that they plan to patrol the border with Mexico in Arizona. The Mara Salvatruchas are known to cut the "testicles" of their enemies and feed them to their vicious dogs. Other times they have cut the heads off their opponents to play football soccer with them. These are not people to mess around with.

There is a good probability that very few cowardly Minutemen vigilantes will show up on April 1st in Tombstone, Arizona. The principal imbeciles organizing the event are known to be mere loudmouths. The morons think that they will be just having "some fun in the sun" hunting down defenseless Mexican migrant workers but instead may meet up with the devil himself. Satan has a very warped sense of humor and April 1st would be an excellent day to express it.


85 posted on 03/02/2005 8:38:59 PM PST by occutegirl ("She is too fond of books, and it has turned her brain." ~ Louisa May Alcott)
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To: occutegirl
A high level leader of the Mara Salvatruchas, Ebner Anivel Rivera-Paz, has issued orders, from federal prison,

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! He's in the can!

The Mara Salvatruchas (MS-13) are a consequence of USA policies in Central America

BOO HOO! The poor pity party victim, Boo Hoo Hoo!

MS-13 was founded in Los Angeles by the offspring of the immigrants for protection.

Guess they had to protect themselves against . . . other hispanics? Too much west coast sun? What a load.

The extremely violent group controls large portions of the drug, stolen vehicle and immigrant smuggling operations along the US/Mexico border

Gosh, mom would be proud, eh? Real family values, right?

There is a good probability that very few cowardly Minutemen vigilantes will show up on April 1st in Tombstone, Arizona. The principal imbeciles organizing the event are known to be mere loudmouths.

Why yes! About 500 to 1,000 "cowardly" Minutemen volunteers, to be exact. The principal "imbecile" that originated the idea of such a group vacation is a Viet Nam Vet, U.S.M.C. Marines are, in fact, known to speak in loud clear tones. Mr. ebner would be well advised to not refer to combat veteran marines as "mere."

86 posted on 03/02/2005 9:37:18 PM PST by TLI ( . . . ITINERIS IMPENDEO VALHALLA . . . . . .)
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To: TLI

The Mara Salvatruchas are known to cut the "testicles" of their enemies and feed them to their vicious dogs.


Just doin' the jobs Americans won't do.


87 posted on 03/02/2005 10:15:00 PM PST by occutegirl ("She is too fond of books, and it has turned her brain." ~ Louisa May Alcott)
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To: Peach

What would you like the White House to do?


Doind something about ILLEGAL immigration would be a real good start.


88 posted on 03/02/2005 11:09:44 PM PST by conshack
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To: EdReform; Cindy; JustAnotherSavage; Peach; TheForceOfOne; alloysteel; HiJinx
I heard that Fox News is having a special program on gangs. It's supposed to be hosted by Newt Gingrich. Can anyone confirm? I didn't find it listed on their web site.

Yeah EdReform. As HiJinx pointed out, it will air on Sunday, at 9pm ET. I started a thread on it, but I'll just link it here.

JustAnotherSavage gave me the heads up on this Michelle Malkin thread.

89 posted on 03/02/2005 11:43:32 PM PST by Sirc_Valence (I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those that threaten.. my brother)
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To: janetgreen

It is not just the border states anymore, my friend, but I feel for ya down there.


90 posted on 03/03/2005 12:31:25 AM PST by WindOracle
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To: B4Ranch
--->>What would you like the White House to do?<<
---ENFORCE THE IMMIGRATION LAWS!
91 posted on 03/03/2005 12:36:18 AM PST by WindOracle
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damn, that sucked.. will know better next time

(note to self, never use an image on angelfire)


92 posted on 03/03/2005 12:38:07 AM PST by WindOracle
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To: FBD

Hi, FBD. I hadn't heard that ... about the talk show hosts. That will be interesting to listen to and I'll try to keep track of it and will "see" you on that thread probably :-)


93 posted on 03/03/2005 1:55:16 AM PST by Peach (The Clintons pardoned more terrorists than they ever captured or killed.)
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To: JustAnotherSavage

I'm in.

Good. Now, we need someone with a better writing ability than I have. A personal note from me to a representative or the RNC is one thing, a lucid, well written demand is quite another.


94 posted on 03/03/2005 6:09:55 AM PST by hushpad
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To: hushpad

I'm in the middle of several projects, but will work up a letter IF we can get more interest than just you and I.


95 posted on 03/03/2005 8:52:59 AM PST by JustAnotherSavage ("We are all sinners. But jerks revel in their sins." PJ O'Rourke)
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To: JustAnotherSavage

I'm in the middle of several projects, but will work up a letter IF we can get more interest than just you and I.<<

Good deal. I know several folks personally that are interested, who have their own "individual" campaigns going like I do. They are not members of FR, but I'll try and get them on line.

I'm sure we can convince quite a few that there are strength in numbers - United We Stand. . .


96 posted on 03/03/2005 9:37:33 AM PST by hushpad
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To: hushpad
Just call your congressmen at their offices if you don't want to write.

With all due respect, I believe there is no political will to address this. There is no culturally accepted vocabulary to even discuss this issue. People who are concerned about this issue will continue to be be marginalized, and any other good work they might do will be discredited and undone.

There are winning issues and losers. This is a loser within the time-frame of the possibility of an effective political response. By his actions, I believe President Bush has demonstrated he understands this, and is devoting his political capital to other priorities.

In any event, I respectfully invite you to consider whether numbers of warm bodies crossing the border is the problem, or a radical change imposed upon our culture is the real problem. The highest wall in the world will not make a bit of difference until we face that issue.
97 posted on 03/03/2005 9:45:54 AM PST by SalukiLawyer
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To: SalukiLawyer
In any event, I respectfully invite you to consider whether numbers of warm bodies crossing the border is the problem, or a radical change imposed upon our culture is the real problem. <<

Thanks. My first reflex response would be that the warm bodies crossing the border during the past 10 years or so have created the radical changes we see in Americas culture today, therefore we can not address our culture without addressing the border issue first.

I have great respect for President Bush, but his priority should be to protect this Country. I am still open to another viewpoint, but the one I have was a long-time coming and practically everyone I know feels the same as I do, and not all of us are in the same choir.

Thoughts?
98 posted on 03/03/2005 9:59:24 AM PST by hushpad
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To: JustAnotherSavage

BUMP


99 posted on 03/03/2005 10:18:08 AM PST by Dante3
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To: Dante3; All

FYI

FYI


PEW'S ILLEGAL ALIEN SURVEY
By Michelle Malkin · March 03, 2005 12:00 PM

The Washington Post reports on an interesting survey of Mexican illegal immigrants:

Most Mexican illegal immigrants want to remain in the United States indefinitely, but a majority would be willing to return to Mexico within five years under a temporary guest worker program being considered by the Bush administration, according to a survey released yesterday.

The survey by the Pew Hispanic Center showed that nearly three-quarters of undocumented workers would accept a temporary worker status that required them to return to Mexico. That included 68 percent who said they wanted to live in the United States "as long as I can" or for "the rest of my life."

The survey of nearly 5,000 Mexican nationals was called the first of its kind by Roberto Suro, the center's director. It was conducted at Mexican consulates in Los Angeles; New York; Chicago; Atlanta; Dallas; Fresno, Calif.; and Raleigh, N.C., over six months as immigrants applied for a Mexican identity document....

Several observations:

- As several people quoted in the article point out, the survey findings call into question whether, under Bush's amnesty plan, so-called guest workers would really go back home after their period of "temporary" employment ends.

-The "Mexican security document" referred to above is the Matricula Consular card. You may recall that last fall congressman David Drier stated that Matricula Consular cards "are not available to illegal immigrants." As I pointed out at the time, this is hooey. The Pew Hispanic Center knows this. Presumably, that's why they surveyed Matricular Consular card applicants--because anyone who applies for the card is almost certain to be here illegally.

- The article cites Census data on the number of Mexican illegal aliens living in the U.S. Unfortunately, Census data seriously undercount the number of illegal aliens (see here).
TrackBack

www.michellemalkin.com


100 posted on 03/03/2005 10:21:23 AM PST by JustAnotherSavage ("We are all sinners. But jerks revel in their sins." PJ O'Rourke)
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