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Report from Canada (FR mentioned positively in a national Canadian newspaper)
March 3, 2005 | self

Posted on 03/03/2005 11:13:24 AM PST by proud American in Canada

The fallout from Paul Martin’s decision not to participate in the ballistic missile defense program has been massive. I’m not sure Paul Martin knows what hit him.

The loony leftists aside, average Canadians are upset with the Liberal government and very, very concerned that this decision is going to directly impact them in the pocketbook, given that 80% of Canadian exports are sold to the U.S. market and that tourism here depends heavily on American visitors.

Many here suspect that the decision yesterday of a Montana judge not to reopen the U.S. border to Canadian beef would have turned out differently had Martin not double-crossed George W. Bush. The Canadian beef industry has been devastated by the closed border and may not survive if the border remains closed indefinitely.

The newspapers are full of supportive letters written by average Canadians and some have called the White House to express their disgust with Martin.

Also, the news media has ripped into Martin. 90% of the coverage has been highly critical of the substance of the decision and of the way he handled it, both here in Canada and in reporting it to the United States.

Yesterday’s National Post, a conservative paper, devoted two full pages to how not participating in BMD will adversely affect relations with the United States.

The first page, headlined, “From Texas, Ohio, New York and Boston, Americans ask one question of our Prime Minister: Why?” was devoted to reprinting editorials from U.S. newspapers.

Like many newspapers across the States, this page reprinted the infamous “Canadian Free Riders: Don’t Worry About Missiles; The Yanks Will Save Us” opinion piece from the Wall Street Journal (a subscription is required to read that at www.wallstreetjournal.com).

The second was a scathing piece from The Boston Herald, “Give Martin the Putin Treatment.” The original may be found here:

http://news.bostonherald.com/opinion/view.bg?articleid=70259

The third, entitled “The John Kerry of the North,” was from The Plain Dealer. The original may be found here:

http://www.cleveland.com/search/index.ssf?/base/opinion/1109413890261900.xml?oxedi

Finally, the Post also reprinted Freeper DH’s essay. DH owns a Texas company and has decided to no longer sell his products to Canada. He articulates his reasons why here:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1352592/posts

The Post also featured a copy of DH’s “No sales to Canada” website page:

http://www.weldtron.com/general/Canada.htm

Finally, the second page was devoted to lengthy and perceptive pieces by Claire Hoy (“Betraying a Great Friend”) and Andrew Coyne, “The U.S. is in No Mood for this Nonsense”

I could not find a link to Hoy’s article, but Coyne’s article may be found here;

http://andrewcoyne.com/2005/03/us-is-in-no-mood-for-this-nonsense.php

Even left-leaning newspapers—including the Globe and Mail and the ultra-liberal Toronto Star--are criticizing Martin, whose government is demonstrating profound ineptness regarding its relationship with the U.S.

For example, today, the new ambassador to the U.S., Frank McKenna, opined that the refusal to participate in BMD is a “direct result” of softwood lumber and beef trade disputes:

http://www.canada.com/national/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=e049e880-097d-4f69-a083-03d5a1138553

Oh really? If that’s why Martin came to his decision, it comes as news to Canadians, as Martin has never explained his position or allowed a parliamentary debate on this issue, as he had promised he would.

A recent national COMPAS poll reports that 54% of Canadians are against missile defense. However, this number is misleading. To better understand the situation, you have to break it down by province. Then you learn that amazingly, despite the liberal bias of most of the Canadian news media and the fact that not one politician has tried to make the case for joining BMD, 53% of Canadians outside of Quebec support it. It’s the 75% of Quebeckers who do not support it that skew the national poll.

In short, this debacle has all the makings of a situation where this minority government could come crashing down. The opposition could call an election and make the case that joining missile defense is a good idea and that in once again poking a stick in Uncle Sam’s eye, Paul Martin has seriously damaged the livelihood of average Canadians. A resounding Liberal defeat would go a long way to demonstrating to Americans that Canadians support them.

Unfortunately, we haven’t heard a peep from the Conservative leader, Stephen Harper, who appears to have been whisked away to an undisclosed location.

Is he, like Martin, aiming to appease Quebec? No one knows because he has apparently vanished, but one thing is certain--Canadians were stunned by this decision.


TOPICS: Canada; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: bmd; canada; missileshield; paulmartin
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If you know any Canadians or others who would be interested in this, please pass it along.

I want people to know that the average Canadian feels very upset about this. They support the Americans and are upset about the fact that apparently Quebec has a veto power over Canadian foreign policy.

1 posted on 03/03/2005 11:13:26 AM PST by proud American in Canada
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To: Clive; NorthOf45; Do not dub me shapka broham

a "Canadian reaction to Paul Martin's decision" ping


2 posted on 03/03/2005 11:16:18 AM PST by proud American in Canada
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To: hawkaw

I thought you might be interested in this. :)


3 posted on 03/03/2005 11:17:27 AM PST by proud American in Canada
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To: youngtory

Canada ping...


4 posted on 03/03/2005 11:18:00 AM PST by proud American in Canada
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To: goldstategop; Pokey78; SheLion

a "trying to get the word out" ping.

Please ping any Canadian freepers you know.


5 posted on 03/03/2005 11:20:13 AM PST by proud American in Canada
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To: proud American in Canada
The loony leftists aside, average Canadians are upset with the Liberal government and very, very concerned that this decision is going to directly impact them in the pocketbook, given that 80% of Canadian exports are sold to the U.S. market and that tourism here depends heavily on American visitors.

The senate voted today to continue the ban on canadian beef.
6 posted on 03/03/2005 11:21:28 AM PST by Righty_McRight ("Rescue those being led away to death; hold back those staggering toward slaughter" Proverbs 24:11)
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To: proud American in Canada

There's a Canada ping? I'd join.

We Canadians are being mislead on the issue by CBC and the star. That poll will drastically change with education.


7 posted on 03/03/2005 11:21:37 AM PST by Clypp
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To: DH

DH, you were mentioned in a national Canadian newspaper!

Your Freeper essay was also discussed on talk radio here.

Canadians are very concerned and upset with Martin's decision.


8 posted on 03/03/2005 11:22:00 AM PST by proud American in Canada
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To: Clypp; Clive

I believe Clive has the Canada ping list. :)

Yes, Canadians are being misled. It's sad.

Where is Stephen Harper!? It seems to me this is an ideal opportunity for him to educate people.


9 posted on 03/03/2005 11:23:38 AM PST by proud American in Canada
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To: proud American in Canada

Any Canadians in a position to comment on the passivity of the Conservatives?


10 posted on 03/03/2005 11:24:24 AM PST by Truth29
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To: Righty_McRight

"The senate voted today to continue the ban on canadian beef"

They did?! Oh no... I knew that they had the votes to do it but I didn't realize they had actually voted.

They should have tested ALL the animals at the very beginning of this thing and gotten done with it.


11 posted on 03/03/2005 11:24:50 AM PST by proud American in Canada
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To: Truth29

I would love to know why Stephen Harper has been AWOL here.

The only issue that he has taken a strong stand on is gay marriage, and while I agree with him on that, it's a losting issue in Canada. It will not get him elected up here.

He needs to step aside and let someone else take over.


12 posted on 03/03/2005 11:26:50 AM PST by proud American in Canada
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To: proud American in Canada; DH

pAiC, did the paper reprint just DH's essay, or also the web addy of the essay? Did they reprint the comments?

DH, goodness you've created quite a storm, good on ya. Also, I passed your website onto my friend who own's the fabrication welding shop, he's looking into your catalog of equipment. I hope my comments didn't get posted in a national Canadian newspaper...


13 posted on 03/03/2005 11:33:45 AM PST by JerseyHighlander
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To: proud American in Canada
I was all set to say some very nasty things about the Canadians but reading the replies here I won't. I feel sad for them.

Don't worry Canada we'll save your butts if a nuke shows up in your sky, after all some 3 year old in Vancouver didn't make such a dumb decision.

But that proud strong ally that forced its way ashore in Normandy is obviously gone. Such a shame. There's a lesson for Americans there I hope we learn.

14 posted on 03/03/2005 11:35:30 AM PST by An Old Marine (Freedom isn't Free)
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Comment #15 Removed by Moderator

To: proud American in Canada
I've never understood why a certain percentage of Canadians hate America so much anyway. No other country in the World benefits from a geographical neighbor as much as Canada does from the U.S.

Perhaps these malcontents would feel better if Canada bordered Russia, North Korea or China.
16 posted on 03/03/2005 11:37:51 AM PST by reagan_fanatic ("Darwinism is a belief in the meaninglessness of existence" - R. Kirk)
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To: An Old Marine

"But that proud strong ally that forced its way ashore in Normandy is obviously gone. Such a shame."

It really is. It is very, very sad.

Thank you for your post and for your service.


17 posted on 03/03/2005 11:41:22 AM PST by proud American in Canada
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To: JerseyHighlander; DH

They reprinted only the essay and said that it was "from Freerepublic.com." The conservative talk radio host also mentioned FR and read DH's essay on the air, as I mentioned.

No, they didn't print the comments.

It's funny because I was going to pass along DH's thread to the conservative talk radio host last week but got sidetracked.

So, I think the Canadian news media surfs FR.


18 posted on 03/03/2005 11:46:44 AM PST by proud American in Canada
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To: reagan_fanatic

"I've never understood why a certain percentage of Canadians hate America so much anyway."

I don't either but it gets OLD very quickly when you live up here.

My husband and I lived for ten years in the States and a few weeks ago I said, "if you had to listen day in and day out to comments about how Canadians were stupid warmongering bastards," etc., you'd get sick of it pretty fast."


19 posted on 03/03/2005 11:48:45 AM PST by proud American in Canada
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To: proud American in Canada

Please put me on the Canadian ping list.I am unfortunately canadian having to watch this country implode,one stupid liberal policy after another.
Who is DC?
Is the National POst really conservative? I used to subscribed and then cancel,we only kept the local paper for the sports,ie hockey,but now there is absolutely no reason to get the paper, the news are at least 3 days old and so distorted,its frightening.
I get my news here,and enjoy FOx news now.


20 posted on 03/03/2005 11:50:27 AM PST by northernlightsII
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To: SnoopyDog

"Why was it that the countries that could fire missiles over Canada to the USA were not warned to not do it?"

I listen to these leftists and I can answer for them:

Because Canada has no enemies. No one would ever think of shooting at such a friendly, morally superior, tolerant, peace-loving nation. ;)


21 posted on 03/03/2005 11:51:22 AM PST by proud American in Canada
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To: proud American in Canada

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1355261/posts?page=1


22 posted on 03/03/2005 11:52:53 AM PST by NorthOf45
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To: proud American in Canada

The FR community appreciates your summary thread here. Thanks for putting this post together.


23 posted on 03/03/2005 11:54:37 AM PST by JerseyHighlander
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To: northernlightsII; Clive

I think Clive has the Canadian ping list, so Clive, please put NL2 on it.

NorthernLights, you're right, the Post isn't as conservative as it used to be. They never should have let Mark Steyn go.

DH is a Texas Freeper who owns a company and decided to no longer sell to Canada. Here's the website: www.weldtron.com.


24 posted on 03/03/2005 11:55:12 AM PST by proud American in Canada
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To: NorthOf45

Thanks for the link!

I wish he'd be out giving speeches, though, and really hammering Martin. I think it's a winning issue and if he would educate people on the significance of what has happened, he might be able to take this government down, as it deserves.


25 posted on 03/03/2005 11:57:47 AM PST by proud American in Canada
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To: JerseyHighlander

Thank you, JerseyHighlander! :)


26 posted on 03/03/2005 11:58:29 AM PST by proud American in Canada
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To: proud American in Canada

Since the Post published the article I have received hundreds of emails and over 150 phone calls.

I was shocked when the ratio of sincere Canadians who were conservative and agreed with what I was doing outnumbered the liberals and fruitcakes about 9 to 1.

In both emails and phone calls, two words kept coming up over and over again. The words ASHAMED and EMBARRASSED!

We thought we had it bad with the Clintons, these conservatives are living in hell!


27 posted on 03/03/2005 12:02:41 PM PST by DH
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To: captcanada; CanadianBacon

I saw your screen names and thought you might be interested in this--discussing the reaction of Canadians to Martin's decision.


28 posted on 03/03/2005 12:03:02 PM PST by proud American in Canada
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Comment #29 Removed by Moderator

To: Great Dane


Mad politician Disease ping


30 posted on 03/03/2005 12:08:10 PM PST by DTA (Mr. Bush, tear down this ICTY scam!)
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To: DH

Wow, your action is getting some coverage now, huh? Good on ya. I believe in the original thread I referred to it as a lose-lose situation. It looks like it is tending more towards a win-win situation ... drawing attention from both sides of the border.


31 posted on 03/03/2005 12:08:45 PM PST by NorthOf45
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To: DH

Wow! That is an amazing response. I'm happy to hear it.

I've also forwarded this thread to Lowell Green, the man who discussed your essay on the air.

You deserve at a cyber-round of applause for this!

Although the American in me hopes that George Bush doesn't give Martin the time of day from here on in, I do feel very bad for the Canadian people.


32 posted on 03/03/2005 12:09:49 PM PST by proud American in Canada
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To: SnoopyDog

I love trains, too. Have a great trip! :)

FRegards... :)


33 posted on 03/03/2005 12:11:23 PM PST by proud American in Canada
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To: All

Well, I've been ignoring my kids while working on this post :) so I will take a break from the computer for a while and check back later.


34 posted on 03/03/2005 12:15:16 PM PST by proud American in Canada
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Comment #35 Removed by Moderator

To: proud American in Canada

I guess that, now, Canadians are beginning to see why their government wants to take away their guns! Unarmed people are not citizens, they are subjects!


36 posted on 03/03/2005 12:34:40 PM PST by Highest Authority
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To: proud American in Canada

Thanks. Please add me to any Canadian ping list you have.


37 posted on 03/03/2005 12:45:01 PM PST by captcanada
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To: DH

Please add my name to the list of embarassed and ashamed.As a canadian I have witnessed the gradual slide of our country into the grips of the leftist elites that purport to tell all of us what to do and think on every subject.Yet despite the overwhelming weight of biased liberal media,(there is no such thing as conservative talk radio here and Fox News is only a few weeks old) there remains a majority of canadians who regard the americans truly more as family than foreigners and are truly concerned by the current state of relations between our 2 countries.
Please be aware also that there exists within our country strong ideological differences and the West,(Manitoba to BC) has only elected a handful of liberal candidates in the last few elections.
The liberal base is in population dense Ontario and Quebec.
Ontario's reasons to vote liberal are still a bit of a mystery to me,but Quebec votes liberal for 2 reasons:1)older more conservative voters choose the liberals because historically they were the party that faught off all the separatists attempts to make Quebec a sovereign state.(maybe a little like the jewish voters that remain democrat to this day because of FDR)
2) a large segment of the Quebec economy and business depends on the incredible amount of patronage dolled out by the federal liberals in the province.
Finally all liberal policies are aimed at placating anybody in Quebec that wouls possibly vote separatist (Bloq Quebecois).That party is socialist to the extreme in all aspects, so basically canadian policies have been made in Canada for the last 30 years with only one objective in mind hoe to placate Quebec and get enough seats from that province to control parliament,and so far they have been able to do it to the detriment of the country itself.
Soory for the long post and our boring politics.


38 posted on 03/03/2005 12:47:17 PM PST by northernlightsII
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To: reagan_fanatic
I've never understood why a certain percentage of Canadians hate America so much anyway.

If one could whack off the right side of Canada . . . the "lefties" as it were . . . all of Quebec and a pinch of Ontario who believe they're a geographically-challenged suburb of Paris . . . you'd find we're not hated. LOL. If a frog had wings . . .

One need only to understand this to understand why liberals of ALL Nationalities hate us . . .

Liberals have never found ANY cause worth fighting for. Sure, they'll sling their purses now and then and whack you on the rump with their pink parasols when they get a nostril out of joint . . . but if a country is actually willing to . . . GASP!!!!! . . . kill and be killed for a cause or belief, they might as well be Martians to a Liberal.

Liberals have no moral compasses. There is no line drawn in the sand. EVERYTHING is negotiable to a Liberal and those who WILL NOT negotiate with terrorists or WILL NOT negotiate their sovereignty away are to be loathed by the Elitist, Know-It-All Jacques ChIRAQ-wannabes.

They're convinced they're the ONLY Enlightened Species in the Northern Hemisphere and the only ones they're willing to kill are . . . the TRULY Innocent . . . the UNBORN.

Liberalism in today's environment is a Mental Disease, especially taking into account the Yo-Yo's leading their movement. Like So-Dumb Insane, one can not negotiate with today's Liberal. One must chop it's head off . . . either literally or figuratively and, lately, sadly, I'm starting to change my preference for a particular method.

39 posted on 03/03/2005 1:14:25 PM PST by geedee (You're a Patriot when a half-masted Old Glory makes you grieve, and Old Hillary makes you heave.)
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To: proud American in Canada; Great Dane; Alberta's Child; headsonpikes; coteblanche; Ryle; ...

-


40 posted on 03/03/2005 1:17:51 PM PST by Clive
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To: Righty_McRight; proud American in Canada; northernlightsII; DH; Highest Authority; JudyinCanada; ...
I just heard the announcement on the 710 WOR hourly news bulletin.

From my perspective, this entire BSE imbroglio is a public health scare run amok.

The number of BSE-infected cows-outside of the United Kingdom-is so statistically negligible as to be virtually nonexistent.

And-to the best of my knowledge-there has yet to be confirmed case of Cruetzfeld-Jacob Syndrome that can be traced back to someone who has never lived in, or traveled extensively within Great Britain.

What's even worse than this needless public hysteria is the fact that this issue is tailor made for the eco-fascist terrorist squads, who are using this as yet another weapon in their vast arsenal of anti-human propaganda.

The whole question of missile defense is chimera.

Like so many other decisions made by this feckless, vacillating prime minister, it is guided more by political expediency than by any sort of common sense or immutable moral tenets.

Believe me, if there were an operational anti-ballistic missile defense, Martin et. al., would be the first ones to beg for its protection.

-good times, G.J.P. (Jr.)

41 posted on 03/03/2005 1:19:17 PM PST by Do not dub me shapka broham
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To: proud American in Canada

Excellent synopis..thanks..Is Harper perhaps heeding the old political maxim to leave your opponent alone when he's busy committing suiciode?


42 posted on 03/03/2005 1:21:44 PM PST by ken5050 (The Dem party is as dead as the NHL..)
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To: northernlightsII; proud American in Canada; DH

Don't feel bad. I understand how you feel from personal experience. My own brother lives in Quebec and we're at 180° when it comes to politics.

I made my opinions very clear. The liberal cabal is "the" sworn enemy of freedom and the West. This is something I'll fight all my life and he better not get in the way.

Liberals tend not to respect others' wishes and keep yapping until they get leveled.

We don't talk politics anymore and we haven't visited in years. It's a shame to be rough with my older brother but this is how the cookie crumbles.


43 posted on 03/03/2005 1:21:55 PM PST by melancholy
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To: DH
As I told you the other day . . . I'm proud to know a fellow Texan who has the cojones to back up his beliefs with actions.
44 posted on 03/03/2005 1:22:10 PM PST by geedee (You're a Patriot when a half-masted Old Glory makes you grieve, and Old Hillary makes you heave.)
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To: proud American in Canada

Is quebec the most populous province in Canada?


45 posted on 03/03/2005 1:24:39 PM PST by Righty_McRight ("Rescue those being led away to death; hold back those staggering toward slaughter" Proverbs 24:11)
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To: DH

Many Canadians are deeply ashamed and embarrassed at the appalling behavior of successive Liberal governments since the foul Trudeau assumed power.

Unfortunately, our slide into euro-socialism may only be reversible if Quebec separates.


46 posted on 03/03/2005 1:29:55 PM PST by headsonpikes (Spirit of '76 bttt!)
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To: melancholy

I grew up in Quebec and lived through the first referendum.While living there there was no question that as a conservative(philosophically not the party) against separation you had to support the federal liberals.They were the only option.
I've lived in BC for 25 years now and I see the country in a totally different way, but my parents who live there and are very conservative and strong federalists still will only consider the Liberals as their choice because they still see the debate as which party will protect us from the separatists.
Theyy really don't grasp that the Liberals are really alienating a whole section of the country so severely thet thr real separatist threat will likely come from the west ie Alberta.


47 posted on 03/03/2005 1:32:36 PM PST by northernlightsII
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To: ken5050; geedee; melancholy; Clive
It's a distinct possibility.

Whatever strategy he's pursuing, he should continue, since it's infinitely more effective-or at least, appears that way to the lay observer-than the tactics employed by his predecessor, Stockwell Day.

Hopefully, we'll be able to bid farewell to the Liberals before too long.

48 posted on 03/03/2005 1:35:02 PM PST by Do not dub me shapka broham
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To: proud American in Canada
It certainly caught this pro-Canadian American by surprise. It may very well be that all those trade issues are involved, but if so it's customary to give some indication that that's the case or the action is useless.

Clarification, I am sure, is forthcoming, whether the decision is rescinded or not. I would hope that it wasn't merely a sop to the notoriously short-sighted Quebecois. Criticizing the U.S. for acting in a unilateral fashion is fine, but then forcing us to do so makes no sense at all.

49 posted on 03/03/2005 1:48:55 PM PST by Billthedrill
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To: proud American in Canada

The Conservative Convention is next week. I am sure this will be a hot topic.


50 posted on 03/03/2005 1:52:31 PM PST by albertabound (It's good to beeeee Albertabound.)
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