Click it or ticket! -page
Okay, I'm an idiot. I don't get it. Is that a seatbelt reference? -teeny
It is a reference to government intrusion on personal decisions. It also qualifies as a reference, for the term "nanny state", to which you posted...
Posted on 03/03/2005 3:22:46 PM PST by RKBA Democrat
As the gaggle of gun enthusiasts with their assorted handguns sitting openly on their hips dined on hamburgers and chicken tenders at the Fuddruckers restaurant in Annandale, Victor Castellon's eyes grew wide with concern.
"I've got to be careful with these guys because they've got guns," he said, sitting at a nearby table with his girlfriend. "It's like the old West." Castellon was observing members of the Virginia Citizens Defense League, an organization that believes gun owners have the right to carry their guns anywhere — including restaurants like Fuddruckers that serve alcohol.
Under Virginia law, carrying a concealed firearm in a bar or restaurant where alcohol is served is illegal, even if the gun owner has a permit to carry a concealed weapon. But anyone may "open carry" handguns in those establishments, just so long as the gun is visible. Restaurants and bars may post signs stating firearms are prohibited, but few establishments have done so. Two weeks ago, a House of Delegates committee killed a bill that would have prohibited restaurants that offer mixed drinks from serving people who are lawfully carrying firearms. The bill, SB 759, had been unanimously approved by the Senate in late January. "My constituents don't want to walk into a restaurant that serves alcohol and see people carrying guns," said Sen. Janet Howell (D-32), the bill's sponsor. "I've had dozens of e-mails from people who are both angry and frightened about open carrying."
THE GUN-CARRYING members of VCDL resent the implication that they and other Virginia gun owners are not responsible enough to carry their weapons in bars and restaurants.
"I think it's kind of a bizarre thing," said Jim Snyder, VDCL's vice president who lives in eastern Fairfax County. "Why shouldn't a person carrying a gun be able to enjoy a meal? They need to target the bad guys. That law targets the good guys."
VCDL members and other Fairfax County residents who routinely open carry say they are law-abiding citizens merely exercising their Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms. "We carry guns for self defense," said Philip Van Cleave, the group's president and a software designer. "They're for life and death situations." VCDL has roughly 2,000 members and represents Virginia's 111,000 concealed-carry permit holders, 16,000 of whom reside in Northern Virginia.
LAST JULY, 13 members of Virginia Citizens Defense League openly carried their handguns at Champps Americana Restaurant in Reston. The manager called in Fairfax County police officers, who incorrectly believed it was illegal to carry firearms in an ABC-licensed establishment.
That incident drew national attention to the gun-carrying phenomena in Northern Virginia that continues on an almost weekly basis. Three weeks ago Fairfax County police were called to the Red Robin Restaurant in Chantilly after a group of gun owners entered with their guns visible on their hips. They had just finished target practice at a nearby shooting range. But usually other restaurant patrons either do not notice or simply assume they are undercover law enforcement officers, they said.
"It's still a problem for us sometimes, but most people don't even seem to care," said Rudolph DiGiacinto, a Fairfax gun enthusiast and legal researcher who was present at the Champps and Red Robin incidents. "We're open carrying legally." When they carry their firearms openly at restaurants, they say they are careful to never drink alcoholic beverages. "We don't want to make ourselves targets for law enforcement," said Mike Stollenwerk, a Fairfax County resident who carried a visible 9-mm Beretta at Fuddruckers the other night. Virginia Citizens Defense League's top legislative goal is to allow concealed-carry permit holders to bring their hidden guns into bars and restaurants.
HOWELL'S BILL was defeated by the House Committee on Militia, Police and Public Safety. Del. Chap Petersen (D-37), one of only two Northern Virginia lawmakers on the committee, said Howell's bill and the proposed lifting of the concealed-weapon restaurant ban both boil down to a balance between the restaurant owner's right to a safe establishment and the gun owners' right to bear arms.
"There needs to be some meeting of the minds between the two groups," he said. "I do believe that restaurant owners should know who on their property has firearms." Petersen, who voted against killing Howell's bill, said it and other gun control measures resulted in little change during this year's General Assembly session. But Dave Yates, a Virginia Citizens Defense League member and a Mount Vernon computer programmer disagreed. He said the defeat of stiffer gun control measures marked a victory for handgun owners. "After everything that got thrown at us, after all the dust had settled, we lost no ground," said Yates, as he walked out of Chinese food restaurant in Chantilly on Friday night, openly carrying one of his favorite semi-automatic pistols.
(Disclaimer: I am not in fact advocating prejudice toward blacks.)
PC police got a hold of you?
Totally disagree with all points made.
I hear there's an especially vicious gang near the Maryland border called "the DNC."
VCDL Ping. I have been busy lately, but hopefully I'll do a better job of keeping an eye on the VA gun related articles.
Click it or ticket!
Your attitude makes me nervous... why tell the manager you were skeered, other than to escape paying for your meal. Open carry makes a lot more sense. It lets the bad guys know they must behave, or be tested! Methinks they would probably find another place to do their thing!
I live in WV, and am licensed to carry here. I rarely do, except when in the woods. I think I will find out their dining schedule, since VA is reciprical with WV, and join the comraderie and fun...
Migraine,
The key thing to understand about the situation in Virginia is that gun owners are NOT PERMITTED to carry concealed in restaurants that serve alcohol.
If you see it as "in your face," or "chip on shoulder," remember that the problem is not with the gun owners, but with the law itself.
I'm sure that most folks in Virginia would prefer to be discreet with their defensive firearms, but the law doesn't allow it of them while they're out to eat.
If some gun-phobic legislator has a problem with it, they need to introduce a bill to repeal the silly prohibition on concealed carry in restaurants and get it passed.
Bingo! When the "Shall-Issue" law passed in 1995, the anti's inserted the language to prohibit concealed carry in restaurants that serve alcohol. Open carry remains legal.
So, if you have a CHL and want to go out to eat, you have two options:
- open carry, or - leave the pistol at home, or in your vehicle.
Personally, I prefer the first choice.
Perhaps you'd find this essay to be an enlightening insight into your own psyche:
Raging Against Self-Defense: A Psychiatrist Examines The Anti-Gun Mentality
About a year ago I received an e-mail from a member of a local Jewish organization. The author, who chose to remain anonymous, insisted that people have no right to carry firearms because he didn't want to be murdered if one of his neighbors had a "bad day". (I don't know that this person is a "he", but I'm assuming so for the sake of simplicity.) I responded by asking him why he thought his neighbors wanted to murder him, and, of course, got no response. The truth is that he's statistically more likely to be murdered by a neighbor who doesn't legally carry a firearm1 and more likely to be shot accidentally by a law enforcement officer.2How does my correspondent "know" that his neighbors would murder him if they had guns? He doesn't. What he was really saying was that if he had a gun, he might murder his neighbors if he had a bad day, or if they took his parking space, or played their stereos too loud. This is an example of what mental health professionals call projection – unconsciously projecting one's own unacceptable feelings onto other people, so that one doesn't have to own them.3 In some cases, the intolerable feelings are projected not onto a person, but onto an inanimate object, such as a gun,4 so that the projector believes the gun itself will murder him.
I submit that your condescending use of the term "strut," and your irrational nervousness, says more about you, than anyone who is forced by law to carry openly in a restaurant.
Click it or ticket! -page
Okay, I'm an idiot. I don't get it. Is that a seatbelt reference? -teeny
It is a reference to government intrusion on personal decisions. It also qualifies as a reference, for the term "nanny state", to which you posted...
What a fool.
Personally, I think the federal gubmint should be involved in national defense and securing our borders. That is about it. I want a pure return to state's rights.
No worries mate.
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