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Neighbor, other man charged in slaying of Jersey City family
PhillyBurbs ^

Posted on 03/04/2005 2:14:06 PM PST by Selkie

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To: Fred Nerks; jan in Colorado
"I'd like to make one thing perfectly clear: The motive for these murders was robbery. This was a crime based on greed, the desperate need of money," DeFazio said.

Freddie and Jan, I am only an amateur detective. But why would a robber inflict such violence on all members of the family. Aren't robbers more like businessmen in regression (i.e. the goal is the money...let's get in, get the money, and get out quickly).

Beating the whole family so that they are unrecognizable...isn't that a special artform. That must take at least an hour extra.

Please, tell me where I am wrong!

401 posted on 03/08/2005 5:07:41 PM PST by Dark Skies ("The sleeper must awaken!")
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To: Dark Skies
DS,

You are NOT wrong. This was no robbery. The sheer violence of the murders indicates extreme hatred. Simple robbers would not have taken the time to torture and kill the entire family.

This was the work of muslims who were mad because this family was converting muslims to Christianity. I don't care what anyone says. The facts in this case speak volumes.

Anyone who denies this is nothing but a liar or a muzzie apologist/enabler.
402 posted on 03/08/2005 5:22:33 PM PST by appalachian_dweller (Psalms 55:22 - Cast thy burden upon the LORD, and he shall sustain thee)
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To: appalachian_dweller

"Anyone who denies this is nothing but a liar or a muzzie apologist/enabler."

... and anyone who thinks that they KNOW this based on the unsuported and conflicting statements of relatives of the victims is playing the fool.

The ONLY evidence that we know of from official sources is the video tapes of the perps using the stolen ATM card.


403 posted on 03/08/2005 5:28:00 PM PST by RS (They'll get my warped sense of humor when they rip it from my cold, dead neurons...)
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To: appalachian_dweller; Fred Nerks; USF; jan in Colorado
This was the work of muslims who were mad because this family was converting muslims to Christianity.

I think the history books will read, "It was in the 21st century that amateur detectives (some with solid police credentials), like the bloggers before them, started correcting and, indeed, directing the course of criminal investigations."

404 posted on 03/08/2005 5:28:13 PM PST by Dark Skies ("The sleeper must awaken!")
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To: RS
RS, you are an apologist and an enabler.

Many of the facts of this horrendous act are published and well known. Correlate this with what is being taught in the mosques in this country and things become clear.

The sleeping sheeple may buy your apologist excuses, but those of us who are watching the muslims know what's really going on.

Go peddle your apologist/enabler tripe elsewhere. We're not buying that trash here.
405 posted on 03/08/2005 5:40:27 PM PST by appalachian_dweller (Psalms 55:22 - Cast thy burden upon the LORD, and he shall sustain thee)
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To: Dark Skies

We can't tell you nuthink! We are just little old ladies and bloggers with bad teeth, some of us are bald, we sit here all day in our jammies, drinking coffee, making bigoted statements because we are illiterate, xenophobic bigots who get their information from rednecks, from conspiracy theories, everything we think and write is based upon our unreasonable hatred of the poor immigrant refugees because they are different, they eat different food and dress funny. We wanna country that don't let no steenkin immigrants in here. Why would you ask us if we think you might be wrong?
Do I have to put sarc. after this, or not?


406 posted on 03/08/2005 5:41:55 PM PST by Fred Nerks (Understand Evil: Read THE LIFE OF MUHAMMAD. Link on my Page. free pdf.)
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To: appalachian_dweller

Here is the latest news. McDonald has rolled over on Sanchez in order to obtain lesser charges...........

JERSEY CITY - Records of a telephone call between the two men charged in the slaying of an Egyptian family corroborate a detailed admission by one of them, authorities said Monday.

The confession by Edward McDonald and records of his phone call to former prison buddy Hamilton Sanchez in the hours before the killings were enough for prosecutors to charge Sanchez in the Jan. 11 massacre, authorities said.

Prosecutors are still counting on evidence being processed at the FBI forensics lab in Washington to cement their case.

Hair and fiber samples taken from inside the home Hossam Armanious shared with his wife and two daughters should place the two alleged killers there, said John Conway, an FBI spokesman.

Authorities recovered a gun, which they believe was used to subdue the family, hidden in McDonald's apartment during a raid Thursday morning, DeFazio said. They also found distribution quantities of high-grade "hydro" marijuana, he said

One thing that authorities have figured out is that McDonald seriously miscalculated the bounty that awaited him inside the Armanious residence, DeFazio said.

"They thought that they were going to hit the jackpot," DeFazio said. "These guys, they had it in their head that there was going to be more cash there."

At one point, the pair piled up all the jewelry they found inside the home but decided against taking it, the prosecutor said.

McDonald told investigators that he and Sanchez stabbed the family to death during a push-in robbery after the youngest daughter recognized McDonald as her upstairs neighbor, according to authorities.
http://www.northjersey.com/page.php?qstr=eXJpcnk3ZjczN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk2MDYmZmdiZWw3Zjd2cWVlRUV5eTY2NjMxMzcmeXJpcnk3ZjcxN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXkz


It appears that this may turn out to be a case of In flagrante delicto afterall.
Im reminded why I'm for the Death Penalty.
I just think they should bring back drawing and quartering murderers like this.


407 posted on 03/08/2005 5:43:57 PM PST by Selkie (Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go.)
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To: Fred Nerks

Fred, thanks for putting up that link on your homepage. I'll be doing some reading later.


408 posted on 03/08/2005 5:44:05 PM PST by appalachian_dweller (Psalms 55:22 - Cast thy burden upon the LORD, and he shall sustain thee)
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To: appalachian_dweller

Hey, I'm pleased you found the link and decided to read the book. It's not only profoundly well researched but it's told in a simple honest way without any sensationalism.


409 posted on 03/08/2005 5:46:57 PM PST by Fred Nerks (Understand Evil: Read THE LIFE OF MUHAMMAD. Link on my Page. free pdf.)
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To: appalachian_dweller

"RS, you are an apologist and an enabler."

You are a liar - I am aplogizing for noone and enabling nothing.

"Many of the facts of this horrendous act are published and well known."

I noticed that you have not chalanged the FACT that many of the well known and published "facts" conflict with each other and come from relatives of the victims.

Did you know that the police have reported that the knives used were the victims own ? How does that fit with a ritualized premeditated slaughter by "muzzies" ?

http://www.njjewishnews.com/njjn.com/021705/njajc.html

"Jersey City resident Hossam Armanious, his wife Amal Garas, and their two young daughters, 15-year-old Sylvia and eight-year-old Monica, were found stabbed to death with knives from their own home — leading police to doubt that their murders were premeditated."


410 posted on 03/08/2005 5:52:33 PM PST by RS (They'll get my warped sense of humor when they rip it from my cold, dead neurons...)
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To: All

KIN MARVEL AT CALM N.J. SLAY SUSPECT

By DOUGLAS MONTERO and CYNTHIA R. FAGEN

March 7, 2005 -- Upstairs neighbor and murder suspect Edward McDonald kept his cool whenever relatives talked about the vicious unsolved slayings of four members of an Egyptian family in their New Jersey home, a relative said yesterday.
"We'd hang out together after the fact, and he never acted like anything had happened," said the 65-year-old granddad of McDonald's wife, Stephanie Torres.

Torres would often discuss the highly publicized cold-blooded murders with McDonald during family get-togethers.

I'd say, I hope they catch the people who did this — but I never imagined it would be him.

"Whatever he did, he did, and he has to deal with it. I am just shocked and hurt," he said, asking that his first name not be used.
http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/40828.htm


411 posted on 03/08/2005 5:52:40 PM PST by Selkie (Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go.)
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To: Selkie

Thanks for the info Selkie. I'm still not convinced that these drug users did this.

I can't dismiss the threat from the PalTalk website. The MO fits with muslim hate, not drug user greed. Most drug users (I used to be one so I know first hand) would rather rob an empty house.

Something still doesn't fit. I think it's a cover up. If I'm to believe that these two idiots did this, I'll also have to believe that Vince Foster really did kill himself.


412 posted on 03/08/2005 5:55:13 PM PST by appalachian_dweller (Psalms 55:22 - Cast thy burden upon the LORD, and he shall sustain thee)
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To: Fred Nerks
You're crazy...I never said I don't like muslim women...I think they are cute, particularly when they wear thongs under those burkas.

I can't help it that Allah is an angry goddess who hates human women. Just for the record...I don't like Allah and I do like cute Islamic women. And I treat them better than Allah and Moe...so there!

Here is my new girlfriend. And she says duckhead to Moe and Allah and Howlin...and she says..."dang, my thong is soooo tight."

413 posted on 03/08/2005 5:57:26 PM PST by Dark Skies ("The sleeper must awaken!")
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To: Selkie

"Im reminded why I'm for the Death Penalty.
I just think they should bring back drawing and quartering murderers like this. "

EXACTLY !

The law forbids "cruel AND unusual punishment"

... that says to me that we can make it cruel as long as we use it all the time !

Thanks for the post Selkie...


414 posted on 03/08/2005 5:57:28 PM PST by RS (They'll get my warped sense of humor when they rip it from my cold, dead neurons...)
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To: appalachian_dweller

Vince Foster didn't kill himself? Next, you're going to tell me Commerce Secretary Brown's death was an aviation accident...and he just happened to have a .45 caliber wound in his skull.


415 posted on 03/08/2005 5:59:38 PM PST by ApesForEvolution (I just took a Muhammad and wiped my Jihadist with Mein Koran...come and get me nutbags.)
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To: Selkie

Hair and fibre samples. Fine. Forensic evidence is what I wanted to hear. Now comes the question, why did it take so long? The neighbour was questioned when the bodies were found. How long does it take to find and analyse hair and fibre samples?
Notice, the statement includes the qualification "should place the two alleged killers there."
Should?
Truly, the ways of criminal investigations remain a complete mystery to me.


416 posted on 03/08/2005 6:00:37 PM PST by Fred Nerks (Understand Evil: Read THE LIFE OF MUHAMMAD. Link on my Page. free pdf.)
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To: RS

>> knives from their own home <<

I don't care where the knives came from. This was the work of muslims.


417 posted on 03/08/2005 6:00:42 PM PST by appalachian_dweller (Psalms 55:22 - Cast thy burden upon the LORD, and he shall sustain thee)
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To: Fred Nerks

Truly, the ways of criminal investigations remain a complete mystery to me.>>>

In New Jersey at least.
Things here don't always follow logical progressions.
LOL.


418 posted on 03/08/2005 6:02:52 PM PST by Selkie (Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go.)
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To: Fred Nerks
Hair and fibre samples.

Well, that let's me off the hook...I ain't a Brit or an Ozzie (we call it fiber here in the Sud)...and well, hair...hehehe...it ain't mine. Let me check the cat.

419 posted on 03/08/2005 6:08:02 PM PST by Dark Skies ("The sleeper must awaken!")
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To: Dark Skies

I was sorta hoping for DNA samples from under the victims fingernails, but you can't have everything, I guess...


420 posted on 03/08/2005 6:10:49 PM PST by Fred Nerks (Understand Evil: Read THE LIFE OF MUHAMMAD. Link on my Page. free pdf.)
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To: Fred Nerks
I wonder if the FBI is still involve...this whole thing is giving off smoke.

The authorities aren't telling the truth and I don't blame them. They are deflecting attention as best they can (not very well however).

There was a surplus of anger in this killing. Robbery is not the prime mover. Deep seated anger...either misdirected or accurately directed.

But anger is the key.

421 posted on 03/08/2005 6:17:11 PM PST by Dark Skies ("The sleeper must awaken!")
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To: Dark Skies

"But anger is the key."

I'll try it in aussie-speak. Two drop-kicks with form, a history of dealing, they are tenants of a migrant family that is doing quite well financially, hard working, active in community affairs; the rent is high, they are both short of money and they hate immigrants. Of course they are angry, someone else has what they believe they deserve, a nice home and a family. Who did one of them owe money to? How desperate might he have been to repay a loan, what might the penalty have been for not settling this outstanding debt? Was the money owed to a drug supplier? Ouch!
Meanwhile the family is threatened by muslims on a website, the perps were I believe, regular visitors to the family, perhaps the father made the threats known to one of the perps and presto...what a perfect opportunity, we can rob them and sit tight, we don't have to run and draw attention to ourselves, the cops are going to blame you know who anyway...so the worse the bodies look, the less likelyhood there is that the murders will appear to have been part of a robbery. Hey, I could do this all day. I wish I had never heard of it. Let the cops have at it.


422 posted on 03/08/2005 6:44:13 PM PST by Fred Nerks (Understand Evil: Read THE LIFE OF MUHAMMAD. Link on my Page. free pdf.)
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To: Fred Nerks; jan in Colorado; USF
Freddie...you could be right. I don't know that kind of anger...the kind of anger the neighbor might have felt rather haphazardly toward his former landlord.

I can imagine it does exist. But (Occam's Razor), it just seems too damn convenient.

Could be...but my personal jury is still out.

423 posted on 03/08/2005 6:51:55 PM PST by Dark Skies ("The sleeper must awaken!")
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To: Dark Skies

Mine too. But there's nothing haphazard about jealousy and envy. Neither about facing retribution for an unpaid debt to a 'wholesaler' ...


424 posted on 03/08/2005 7:07:32 PM PST by Fred Nerks (Understand Evil: Read THE LIFE OF MUHAMMAD. Link on my Page. free pdf.)
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To: Fred Nerks
But a wholesaler of what...must be drugs...the brain must have been invaded...or emptied so that it could have been invaded by darker things.

The battering of faces beyond recognition. That takes time...that takes energy.

425 posted on 03/08/2005 7:21:02 PM PST by Dark Skies ("The sleeper must awaken!")
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To: Dark Skies

"The battering of faces beyond recognition."

That worries me. It worries me because I don't know, offhand, just where that statement came from nor who made it.


426 posted on 03/08/2005 7:25:14 PM PST by Fred Nerks (Understand Evil: Read THE LIFE OF MUHAMMAD. Link on my Page. free pdf.)
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To: Fred Nerks
OK Freddie...this isn't Dark Skies...he's asleep...this is Freckles the cat.

One of the daughters was said to have been recognized not by her face but by other means (body marks...tattoos).

Freckles, meow, indeed!

427 posted on 03/08/2005 7:28:33 PM PST by Dark Skies ("The sleeper must awaken!")
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To: Dark Skies; Fred Nerks
>>>But why would a robber inflict such violence on all members of the family.<<<

I wish I could give you an answer to that DS. This case doesn't make sense. When the facts come out, it still won't make sense. How do you make sense of the slaughter of a family in cold blood?

"But evil men and impostors will proceed from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived" 2 Timothy 3:13

The only answer I can come up with is evil!

428 posted on 03/08/2005 7:31:47 PM PST by jan in Colorado (The peace of God, which surpasses all comprehension,shall guard your hearts and your minds in Christ)
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To: Dark Skies

My cat, Rastus said to tell you that maybe the man who did it hated children. There are people like that...


429 posted on 03/08/2005 7:32:31 PM PST by Fred Nerks (Understand Evil: Read THE LIFE OF MUHAMMAD. Link on my Page. free pdf.)
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To: Fred Nerks
Freckles says to Rastus...Baloney...Adults don't hate children ...they only hate themselves and their own childhoods. Odds point toward Islamic hatred.

Will be back after visit to litter box.

Freckles

430 posted on 03/08/2005 7:37:09 PM PST by Dark Skies ("The sleeper must awaken!")
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To: Dark Skies

Actually you are right on the mark, a "simple"robbery would have been a lot neater-likely with no dead bodies

A druggie would be VERY quick and VERY dirty, with the pistol or other firearm muffled by a pillow, or less likely, a silencer. Druggie stuff is NOT thought out, but driven by the need to Get the moeny, eliminate any witnesses, and get the hell outta dodge. It strikes one as more than passing strange that the so-called suspects waited 3 days to use the ATM card--and then made no attempt whatsoever to hide their features Some places, namely the WaWa chain of convenience stores---rarely have cameras trained on the ATM machines. Druggies know that much--hide their features, and these did not do so.

THIS, OTOH, was PERSONAL. A point was being made for those willing to see and listen to heed. As of now, that lesson is not being heeded by many in the Jersey City prosecutors office.


431 posted on 03/08/2005 8:05:54 PM PST by swordfish71 (Tagline? What is "Tagline"?)
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To: swordfish71
S-Fish...a cut to the bone.

I would expect no less.

DS

432 posted on 03/08/2005 8:19:13 PM PST by Dark Skies ("The sleeper must awaken!")
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To: Dark Skies
I don't know that kind of anger...

The extreme passion... the hatred shown towards the victims is very troubling to me too.

It's pretty personal when you can feel the other end of the piece of metal you're holding twisting inside the body of a child.

Sick animals.

433 posted on 03/09/2005 11:15:57 AM PST by USF (I see your Jihad and raise you a Crusade )
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To: swordfish71
Druggie stuff is NOT thought out, but driven by the need to Get the moeny, eliminate any witnesses, and get the hell outta dodge.

You're missing the point that these weren't just typical drug users wanting quick cash to fulfil their immediate need... one was busted with a whole pound of coke last time they were caught.

Not only does this indicate they were likely distributing, but also it means that guy was deeply in debt when he was let out onto the street again.

434 posted on 03/09/2005 6:59:18 PM PST by Gondring (They can have my Bill of Rights when they pry it from my cold, dead hands!)
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To: All

SLAY SUSPECT'S
Grandfather of his 'wife' faces charges in Maine
Friday, March 11, 2005
By Michaelangelo Conte
Journal staff writer
One of the men charged with murdering the Armanious family was part of an interstate crack dealing group led by the grandfather of the woman he was living with, drug officers in Maine said yesterday.

The grandfather, 65-year-old Victor "Papo" Torres, of Jersey City, was charged with drug trafficking in Auburn, Maine, this week, but investigators say they do not believe he was involved in the Armanious murders.

When Edward McDonald, 25, was arrested last week and charged with four counts of felony murder for the Armanious killings, he had been living on Charles Street, in the Heights, with Stephanie Torres, the granddaughter of Victor Torres.

Victor Torres has a long criminal record in New Jersey, officials said, adding that his brother killed multiple family members on Palisade Avenue decades ago and his son was convicted of manslaughter after killing a man on Ogden Avenue.

Stephanie Torres, the mother of two of McDonald's children, has no criminal record, according to Special Agent Gerry Baril of the Maine Drug Enforcement Agency and Hudson County Prosecutor Edward DeFazio

A wedding announcement for Torres and McDonald appeared in The Jersey Journal in 2002, though DeFazio said Torres told investigators the two are not married.

McDonald spent time in federal prison on drug charges stemming from an arrest in Maine in 2001, and DeFazio said that arrest was related to the Torres family drug trafficking there.

"If you look at the crimes that Victor Torres has been convicted of, what just happened with the family there in Jersey City with McDonald looking for money to buy crack, one could certainly draw the analogy that these folks are dangerous and have a propensity for violence," said Special Agent Gerry Baril of the Maine Drug Enforcement Agency.

"The connection between the girl he was living with shows a relationship and up here in Maine he was hooked up with another member of the Torres family."

"Apparently, the federal conviction of Edward McDonald was related to his activities with the Torres family in Maine."

The investigation that led to McDonald's arrest in Poland, Maine, in 2001, "associated him with members of the Torres family from Jersey City, suspected of importing and distributing cocaine and crack cocaine in the greater Lewiston-Auburn area," Baril said.


435 posted on 03/12/2005 12:10:10 AM PST by Selkie (Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go.)
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