Carly's Way (Hungarian Immigrant Engineer Describes HP Under Carly)

MIT Technology Review ^ | 4 March 2005 | Michelle Delio

[HolgerDansk]

I snuck out of Hungary in 1973, one week after I was told that if I ever wanted to advance as an engineer, I would have to join the Communist Party.

Being a good party member was far more important than your skill level, and so my boss was a man who had been a pig farmer. After decades spent raising hogs, he suddenly was supervising dozens of machinists, most of whom had engineering degrees and had built bridges and buildings until we were reassigned to "practical and useful" work -- making parts for factory machines.

Working for Carly Fiorina reminded me of my days working for that farmer. I remember the first time she walked into the Hewlett-Packard labs. She said that our new company slogan was "Invent." Then she told us that the technology industry would never again be as exciting and profitable as it was in the '90s. That we'd all need to grow up now and face that fact. [snip]

[HolgerDansk]

As someone who has worked in corporate research (for DEC) in the computing industry, this guy's comments are spot on. The reality is that the great majority of practical innovations in use throughout the world originated in the United States, and that innovation has driven the US economy since WWII.

Until now.

The Clinton Administration killed off the bulk of government technology research funding ("corporate welfare", don'tcha know), while the current generation of Harvard MBAs views research as a double negative -- unpredictable and long-term. Since research is a 3-5 year pipeline at a minimum, nobody noticed at first. Well, the pipeline is now empty, which is a big reason we're losing the computing industry to overseas competitors.

[HolgerDansk]

Ping

[Just mythoughts]

DEC those were the good old days....

[Windsong]

Research is always a gamble. Sometimes it pays, sometimes it doesn't, and when it doesn't, companies often die a quick death.

[Excuse_My_Bellicosity]

Sounds just like the career path for media reporters. Join the Democrats or go nowhere in your career.

[hedgetrimmer]

Thanks for posting.

[KarlInOhio]

Now Fiorina's on the short list of people considered to head the World Bank. It looks like time to make some long term investments in gold, guns and groceries.

[Doohickey]

This article is so true of many companies, no matter what industry they're in. They forget what made them successful in the first place. Innovative products has been replaced with innovative marketing and packaging.

There's nothing wrong with making a buck, but make money NOW with little or no future vision is not sustainable.

[seadevil]

My guess is that in a hundred thousand or so garages around this country, another Bill Gates or Paul Allen or Steve Jobs is puttering around with something. The question isn't, "Will it happen?"....but rather, "What will be the affects when it does happen?"

[HolgerDansk]

Research is always a gamble.

True; however, it's part of maintaining a technology company. Hoping that your tech company won't need research is the strategic equivalent of holding your breath underwater in the hopes of evolving gills.

[Blueflag]

Three MALE co-workers of mine who left HP had very negative things to say about Carly's leadership, or alleged leadership and mgmt style.

It was all very touchy feely. They *really* cared.
It was very feminized.
Decisions were less important than communication and collaboration.
Efforts and intentions were rewarded more than outcomes and results.
It was also at the same time very Machiavellian (full of back-stabbing and comments made about you after the meeting was over.)

... AND they perceived it was a great place to be an ambitious female, not male.

[Extremely Extreme Extremist]

I knew this Fiorina chick had some Hillarynesque tendencies. Watch as when the Queen make her presidential run she'll nominate Fiorina as her economic advisor or something.

[Windsong]

One can see this a lot in the video game world, where the suits will say "release the game next month, or lay off half your staff". End result: a game that sucks. This happened with a company called Ion Storm who closed its doors last month because their top two franchises, Deus Ex 2 and Thief: Deadly Shadows, were released *way* before they were ready. The fans weren't pleased, to say the least.

[HolgerDansk]

The question isn't, "Will it happen?"....but rather, "What will be the affects when it does happen?"

It won't happen without the other half of the equation, namely money. With VCs distracted by the prospects of overseas investing (China) and the easy money to be made by funding outsourcing efforts, it's a real challenge right now. And, VCs don't fund research.

[Clemenza]

Now Fiorina's on the short list of people considered to head the World Bank.

Shades of another "successful failure" by the name of Robert McNamara.

[evolved_rage]

And the competition's patent lawyers. I believe its common practice for a "so-called" tech partner with deep pockets to build a fence of patents around the original patent, thus restricting the original inventor. I saw it happen by big Asian companies--ba$tards!

[12 Gauge Mossberg]

Wow, powerful article. And it really sums up America as a whole.

Where are the risk-takers, the innovators, the can-doers? They've been replaced by PC-pushers, the group-thinkers, government handouts, and those who keep saying America's best days are behind us.

[Lead Moderator]

To prevent duplication, please do not alter the heading. Thanks.

[TheSpottedOwl]

To me, this rabid fixation on short-term profits is a bigger threat than outsourcing -- it is killing our ability to make astonishing things.

Great article. I never thought about the R&D part. I bought a HP Pavillion pc back in 2001. Worst pile of junk I've ever owned. 6 hard drives had to be replaced within a 2 year period. An HP for pete's sake. Term papers were lost :( I bought an eMachine this time.

The love of money is the root of all evil...

[yarddog]

I don't intend for this comment to be anti-feminist but there is not way to avoid it.

I have only had one female supervisor who did a good job, (she was very good btw), and I have noticed that women too seem to prefer a male supervisor.

The sexes are not all good at the same thing. Women do some things better and men other things. Management is one of them.

[mollynme]

HP ping

[TheSpottedOwl]

It was also at the same time very Machiavellian (full of back-stabbing and comments made about you after the meeting was over.)

Definitely feminized, and I'm a woman. I'm pretty far down on the employment food chain, but I know that when you have some types of women running the show...it's hell.

[HuntsvilleTxVeteran]

I agree
Too many companies that were started by engineers are taken over by bean counters.
The bean counters can raise profits in the short term but hurt the company in the long run.

[NewHampshireDuo]

DEC those were the good old days....

I was at DEC 1977 to 1994. The last few weren't so great but the first dozen or so were wonderful.

[Wonder Warthog]

"I have only had one female supervisor who did a good job, (she was very good btw), and I have noticed that women too seem to prefer a male supervisor."

Well, I have thus far only had one female supervisor, and she was the most incompetent manager I have ever seen (this was in R&D of a major chemical company). She knew neither technology nor management.

[Mr Ramsbotham]

I bought a HP Pavillion pc back in 2001. Worst pile of junk I've ever owned. 6 hard drives had to be replaced within a 2 year period. An HP for pete's sake.

Yeah, but aren't those cases snazzy?

Term papers were lost :( I bought an eMachine this time.

Out of the fire, into the frying pan.

[JCEccles]

Efforts and intentions were rewarded more than outcomes and results.

Can you imagine Fiorina as a World War II battlefield general conversing with Patton?

"George you're too hard on the men. You don't care enough for their self-esteem and you've made no efforts to fully integrate gays and transvestites into your strategy and plans. As a result, you're not getting the full rich diversity of efforts and ideas that would make you successful. In my army division everyone's a winner. If one soldier gets a silver star they all get silver stars because we realize that success is not an individual achievement. And we don't judge heroism or achievement by hills taken, machine gun nests taken out, or number of enemy killed. The mess hall soldier who prepares a thoughtful and colorful centerpiece for the mess hall table is just as important as the soldier who single-handedly takes out a platoon of German infantry. The mess hall soldier's efforts are no less heroic just because he doesn't spill gallons of blood. He brings happiness and joy to others with a splash of color and whimsy, and that's heroic in a special way. I'm warning you, George, you're not going to win any battles until you learn to engage the 'inner children' of your men and make them all feel important and valued for their good intentions irrespective of results."

[yarddog]

The good one we had was middle aged, heavy set and real good natured. She sort of had a Mother complex but could give orders with no trouble.

All of the bad ones were the petty, hysterical type, just looking for someone to do something wrong, even if it were minor.

Of our male supervisors, maybe 2/3 were good ones. A couple of the good ones were extraordinarily good. All the good ones were at least slightly tough but always fair minded.

[Grampa Dave]

A quick and easy description of Carly's leadership would a Politically Correct Caretaker.

The healthcare and electronics industry is loaded with Carly's of all 3 sexes. When, they get into control of a company, they destroy the research pipelines, drive away the creative people, punish the 10% who bring in 90% of the sales/business. Then, they reward the politically correct maggots hired and promoted to carry out this self destructive strategy.

In a few years, most of the good people have left the company. The company drops from market and research leadership to a me too. If allowed to stay after 5 years, the company permanently becomes a me too company.

We have seen the same thing happen in the CIA, State Department, FBI, Justice Department and other Federal and state departments. The Clintoons put in their hand picked losers to head these departments. The hand picked losers hired thousands of anti America losers, interested in pushing the PC line instead of the original mission of the department.

[Wonder Warthog]

"The good one we had was middle aged, heavy set and real good natured. She sort of had a Mother complex but could give orders with no trouble."

Well, the old gal I'm talking about was similar. The only problem was that her orders weren't connected to any form of knowledge or rational thought.

[JCEccles]

A quick and easy description of Carly's leadership would a Politically Correct Caretaker

Or, rather, a politically correct undertaker.

[Dat Mon]

This article is right on the money...it epitomizes just ONE thing wrong with the technology industry in this country, and highlights why Long TERM technology trends are what is important.

Carly's attitude in fact is symptomatic of the attitudes of many Harvard MBA trained types in management who lead technical companies and who don't themselves have a technical background...there seems to be an underlying animus, perhaps borne out of the realization that they cant do what their geeky engineering staff does.

The fact is that a technical career is no longer seen as a legitimate high paying profession by society as a whole, in contrast to the legal profession. Our failure to maintain parity in our educational system with the rest of the world in training future scientists and engineers is further proof of that.

American graduate schools have become the exclusive domain of people not born in this country, many of which now return after graduate school to their native countries to innovate. The recent trend, IMO, also shows more and more cutting edge IEEE papers coming out of foreign university research programs.

You can also blame high tech guest worker bills which have destroyed the free market labor supply and demand for native American technical people.

You can also blame our tax and regulatory systems. Anyone price liability insurance lately? Our legal system is making it very very hard for the small Wozniak - Jobs garage shop Apple computer model to be replicated.

All told...large American leading edge tech companies are increasingly migrating high tech design facilities to Ireland, Scotland, India, Israel...as well as the ubiquitous China.

And all we are told in response to this by financial, political, and legal types is that all is well...

[mac_truck]

Carly was a marketing person put in change of engineers, a person who cared nothing about the art and beauty of technology. She just wanted saleable stock to bring to market.

The irony for Carly is that HP did not increase its share price as a result of her tenure there.

[Lessismore]

The Clinton Administration killed off the bulk of government technology research funding ("corporate welfare", don'tcha know), while the current generation of Harvard MBAs views research as a double negative -- unpredictable and long-term.

Actually, the Clinton Adminstration expanded government technology research funding. It started the Advanced Technoloby Program, it changed the name of "Defense Advanced Research Programs Administration" to "Advanced Research Projects Administration" and encouraged more industrial research, and it promoted Cooperative Research and Development Agreements for joint research between government and industrial labs.

ARPA is back to DARPA, ATP has been killed, and I think that CRADAs have been scaled way back under the Bush Adminstration.

[rahbert]

Unlikely since Carly is a Republican..

[Rummyfan]

Ahhh DEC..... we used to have so many VAXes and Micro VAXes.... where are they all now?

I didn't think I would live to see the day when DEC, HP, and now AT&T no longer existed as corporations. Where's Ken Olsen now?

[cloud8]

> Carly's attitude in fact is symptomatic of the attitudes of many Harvard MBA trained types in management who lead technical companies and who don't themselves have a technical background...

Tell me about it! The B-school clown to whom our company was entrusted boasted, boasted that he hadn't written any code in 10 years, and that he wasn't about to learn about ours. The company went under within 10 months.

Women *can* make effective CEOs. Martha Stewart, for example (passing over the recent unpleasantness). Carly just wasn't one of them.

[Rummyfan]

They're still out there. It can't be stopped, not by frauds like Carly Fiorina nor any others.

[Enterprise]

"Carly was a marketing person put in change of engineers, a person who cared nothing about the art and beauty of technology."

Affirmative action.

[Rummyfan]

I have only had one female supervisor who did a good job, (she was very good btw), and I have noticed that women too seem to prefer a male supervisor.

I have worked for two female program managers in the last ten years. One was the best manager I have ever worked for I would not hesitate if I ever have the opportunity to work for her again. The other was the worst micromanaging, lot-of-work-and-effort-with-no-value-to-the-program and loss of productivity manager I have ever experienced. Bottom line, there are good women managers and there are bad women managers just as with the male counterparts.

[dennisw]

bttttt

[Rummyfan]

"Carly was a marketing person put in change of engineers, a person who cared nothing about the art and beauty of technology."

A marketing / management type, from the school of thought that managenment is management, and it's not really necessary for one to know intimately the business or technology one is managing. Carly was a huge departure from Messrs Hewlett and Packard, two of the original garage-guys, forerunners to Jobs and Gates.

[walden]

Ah, DEC. The only computer I ever truly loved was a VAX. Those were the days . . . (sigh)

;)

[cp124]

Unlikely since Carly is a Republican..

So is Susan Collins, Olympia Snowe, and John Mccain. What does being Republican mean anymore?

[Enterprise]

Bill Gates recently said that American High Schools are obsolete. I think it goes higher than that. With people like Fiorina ruining companies, business will start thinking that "higher" education is also obsolete.

[Dat Mon]

"The B-school clown to whom our company was entrusted boasted, boasted that he hadn't written any code in 10 years, and that he wasn't about to learn about ours."

Perfect illustration of a bad management attitude!

Right now, in terms of the management - engineer employer relationship, its a buyers market, and many management types are taking advantage of it.

I know of one manufacturing engineer for a major Fortune 500 company who was advised...no make that ordered...to train or 'instruct' their Chinese counterpart in everything they had accumulated over their career in knowledge, experience, production tuning techniques, personal tricks of the trade...everything that made them an exceptional performer....just give it away.

The manager directed the employee in this with a cavalier attitude that spoke volumes.

[mikenola]

All told...large American leading edge tech companies are increasingly migrating high tech design facilities to Ireland, Scotland, India, Israel...as well as the ubiquitous China.

And yet all the really cool stuff still seems to come from this country , doesn't it?

The Soviet Union produced many more highly skilled engineers, and PhDs per capita than America, yet not one significant techological advance came from them. Why?

America's strength is our creativity and dynamism. It's not about who manufactures the microchips anymore. It's about who makes those microchips do new and interesting things.

None of America's apparent competitors can even come close to us in the rate of new ideas. That's something that's difficult to quantify in things like the number of engineering students, etc.

Let the Chinas and Taiwans mass produce the small electronics; we don't need to. Their cultures are just not conducive to coming up with ideas like Google, Ebay, Dell, Microsoft, Walmart, Yahoo, etc.

As long as America has the lions share of new ideas, our economy will still be on top.

[Dat Mon]

"And yet all the really cool stuff still seems to come from this country , doesn't it?"

Read the quote you referenced from my post, and juxtapose it with your statement above.

I'm afraid you're missing the point.

I'm referring to American companies who are increasingly doing their high tech design overseas using foreign engineers, using foreign based subsidiaries.

Do some research on Ireland, and the high tech sector.

[Richard Kimball]

Agreed. I do have to comment that many of these ideas came from German scientists brought to the US after WWII. I was looking at some of the captured German designs for aircraft, and we are still using them in the most recent designs. I don't think it's anything but Divine Intervention that made Hitler pull so many military tactical blunders.

MBAs and lawyers will destroy this country. Corporate CEOs have devasted many companies. Gates, Jobs, and the Waltons are some of the few people running corporations that care about the long-term success of the company. Many CEOs run from company to company, generating short-term gains while gutting the underlying structure that made the company successful. I don't think Carly could have wrecked HP more effectively if she had been on a search and destroy mission. However, she spouts the new world socialist MBA BS that the financial press loves, and poses well with her arms crossed while standing in front of tech looking devices. In short, she's the perfect empty skirt for a non-thinking press.