9/11: Debunking The Myths [Popular Mechanics examines evidence and consults experts]

PopularMechanics ^ | March 2005 Cover Story | Editors of PM

[fight_truth_decay]

PM examines the evidence and consults the experts to refute the most persistent conspiracy theories of September 11.

For background on this investigative feature, please click here.

FROM THE MOMENT the first airplane crashed into the World Trade Center on the morning of September 11, 2001, the world has asked one simple and compelling question: How could it happen?

Three and a half years later, not everyone is convinced we know the truth. Go to Google.com, type in the search phrase "World Trade Center conspiracy" and you'll get links to an estimated 628,000 Web sites. More than 3000 books on 9/11 have been published; many of them reject the official consensus that hijackers associated with Osama bin Laden and Al Qaeda flew passenger planes into U.S. landmarks.

Healthy skepticism, it seems, has curdled into paranoia. Wild conspiracy tales are peddled daily on the Internet, talk radio and in other media. Blurry photos, quotes taken out of context and sketchy eyewitness accounts have inspired a slew of elaborate theories: The Pentagon was struck by a missile; the World Trade Center was razed by demolition-style bombs; Flight 93 was shot down by a mysterious white jet. As outlandish as these claims may sound, they are increasingly accepted abroad and among extremists here in the United States.

To investigate 16 of the most prevalent claims made by conspiracy theorists, POPULAR MECHANICS assembled a team of nine researchers and reporters who, together with PM editors, consulted more than 70 professionals in fields that form the core content of this magazine, including aviation, engineering and the military.

In the end, we were able to debunk each of these assertions with hard evidence and a healthy dose of common sense. We learned that a few theories are based on something as innocent as a reporting error on that chaotic day. Others are the byproducts of cynical imaginations that aim to inject suspicion and animosity into public debate. Only by confronting such poisonous claims with irrefutable facts can we understand what really happened on a day that is forever seared into world history.--THE EDITORS

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[fight_truth_decay]

I posted the PM story as a comment within another FR article earlier today; but thought Popular Mechanic's findings might deserve its own thread and/or discussion.

CLAIM: No fighter jets were scrambled from any of the 28 Air Force bases within close range of the four hijacked flights. "On 11 September Andrews had two squadrons of fighter jets with the job of protecting the skies over Washington D.C.," says the Web site emperors-clothes.com. "They failed to do their job." "There is only one explanation for this," writes Mark R. Elsis of StandDown.net. "Our Air Force was ordered to Stand Down on 9/11."

Flight 175's Windows CLAIM: On Sept. 11, FOX News broadcast a live phone interview with FOX employee Marc Birnbach. 911inplanesite.com states that "Bernback" saw the plane "crash into the South Tower." "It definitely did not look like a commercial plane," Birnbach said on air. "I didn't see any windows on the sides."

Intercepts Not Routine CLAIM: "It has been standard operating procedures for decades to immediately intercept off-course planes that do not respond to communications from air traffic controllers," says the Web site oilempire.us. "When the Air Force 'scrambles' a fighter plane to intercept, they usually reach the plane in question in minutes."

Widespread Damage CLAIM: The first hijacked plane crashed through the 94th to the 98th floors of the World Trade Center's 110-story North Tower; the second jet slammed into the 78th to the 84th floors of the 110-story South Tower. The impact and ensuing fires disrupted elevator service in both buildings. Plus, the lobbies of both buildings were visibly damaged before the towers collapsed. "There is NO WAY the impact of the jet caused such widespread damage 80 stories below," claims a posting on the San Diego Independent Media Center Web site (sandiego.indymedia.org). "It is OBVIOUS and irrefutable that OTHER EXPLOSIVES (... such as concussion bombs) HAD ALREADY BEEN DETONATED in the lower levels of tower one at the same time as the plane crash."

"Melted" Steel CLAIM: "We have been lied to," announces the Web site AttackOnAmerica.net. "The first lie was that the load of fuel from the aircraft was the cause of structural failure. No kerosene fire can burn hot enough to melt steel." The posting is entitled "Proof Of Controlled Demolition At The WTC."

Seismic Spikes CLAIM: Seismographs at Columbia University's Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory in Palisades, N.Y., 21 miles north of the WTC, recorded the events of 9/11. "The strongest jolts were all registered at the beginning of the collapses, well before falling debris struck the earth," reports the Web site WhatReallyHappened.com.

A columnist on Prisonplanet.com, a Web site run by radio talk show host Alex Jones, claims the seismic spikes (boxed area on Graph 1) are "indisputable proof that massive explosions brought down" the towers. The Web site says its findings are supported by two seismologists at the observatory, Won-Young Kim and Arthur Lerner-Lam. Each "sharp spike of short duration," says Prisonplanet.com, was consistent with a "demolition-style implosion."

Further Claims: with FACTS-DEBUNK DEBUNK DEBUNK.

"Because of more questions being posed by conspiracy theorists to PM after the online article, the editors of PM said they may do a follow-up article. Conspiracy theories were said to be coming from the "Far Far Far Left" and the "Far Far Far Right", reports a PM editor on Art Bell's radio show (03.06.05)."

Freeper, DugwayDuke, in posts #14 and #15 also lends some insight into the identity of these Far Far Far Right groups who once walked the hallowed halls of FR and probably still do.

[fight_truth_decay]

*PING*

[Dad yer funny]

ping for after supper,...like dessert

[seadevil]

I read that article (on a Delta flight, no less...lol). It was an outstanding article. But no matter what evidence is brought forth, the black-helicopter crowd (by the way, now that Bubba isn't in office, I guess they all landed for maintenance) will still be there. It's amazing to me that some people's lives are so devoid of anything meaningful that they'll do or say almost anything to feel important or to justify a pre-conceived notion; to the point of abject stupidity.

[Publius6961]

"There is NO WAY the impact of the jet caused such widespread damage 80 stories below," claims a posting on the San Diego Independent Media Center Web site (sandiego.indymedia.org).

It is to cry when seeing how total morons, ignorant of even the most rudimentary elements of science, chemistry, mechanics, dynamics, fluid mechanics, statics and physics, can make absolute claims like this one.

Why is it that doofuses who know the least say it the loudest?

[G.Mason]

The lumens emitted from these theories are so brilliant that even with sunglasses on I am blinded.

I must, therefore, give this to my brother for study, as he, being a member of The Flat Earth Society, will be able to see it.

[LS]

As a caveat, let me say I know that a hijacked jet hit the Pentagon---we have Barbara Olsen's cell phone records if nothing else to prove it---and that there is one very bad photographic sequence of a Pentagon security camera that captures a tiny partial glimpse of the plane.

I am just surprised that a public building like the Pentagon, especially on a day when other big landmarks were attacked, was not more photographed. I can't see any reason why people who might have photos or film of the plane wouldn't come forward, but it just seems weird that there weren't more photos of that plane. Again, NOT a conspiracy theory, just an observation. I know we only had one film of the first aircraft that hit the WTC, and that only by accident of a couple of French filmmakers with the FDNY. It just seems odd that some events in history are photographed to death and others just aren't.

[saquin]

I think it's just that there were a heck of a lot more people around the area of the WTC than there were around the Pentagon.

[Diana in Wisconsin]

"It just seems odd that some events in history are photographed to death and others just aren't."

Try this site. It's the most complete one I've found of all the news related to 9/11. Talk about a day that was photographed to death! http://www.september11news.com/

[armymarinemom]

ping

[TomB]

I am just surprised that a public building like the Pentagon, especially on a day when other big landmarks were attacked, was not more photographed. I can't see any reason why people who might have photos or film of the plane wouldn't come forward, but it just seems weird that there weren't more photos of that plane. Again, NOT a conspiracy theory, just an observation. I know we only had one film of the first aircraft that hit the WTC, and that only by accident of a couple of French filmmakers with the FDNY. It just seems odd that some events in history are photographed to death and others just aren't.

How many pictures are there of the FIRST impact of the WTC? A couple? And that was in the most photographed city in the world at an altitude that made it sure it couldn't be missed. The only reason there are so many pictures of the SECOND impact is because people were already looking that way.

Likewise, there was no reason for anyone to be pointing a camera at the Pentagon at that time, not to mention the plane came in at treetop level so even if there were people with cameras, they didn't have time to snap the shot.

Honestly, it really isn't that hard to understand.

[LS]

Thanks. Good site.

[LS]

Actually, I think there is only one video shot of the first plane impact on the WTC. Maybe the Pentagon isn't the object of a lot of tourists' shots, but you'd think it would be, along with the WH, Congress, and the memorials. Or maybe there isn't a good place from which to get a still pic of the Pentagon. I just thought it odd, and it wouldn't surprise me if, like in the JFK assassination, years after the fact people came forward with other photos.

[Ethan_Allen]

The Perplexing Puzzle of the Published Passenger Lists

'....Alleged Hijackers
On September 27, the Associated Press released a story about the hijackers. The version that I read, published in the ATLANTA JOURNAL-CONSTITUTION, referred to these men as alleged hijackers. I shall do the same. I located this article by using www.daypop.com. Daypop is the most complete archive of recent news stories onthe Web. Daypop allows you to search for stories that are up to four weeks old. I searched for "passenger list" and "hijackers." Daypop produced three pages of links -- not that many. Almost all of these links were to the same AP story, which was published by numerous on-line news sources. Here is the version I used.

http://www.accessatlanta.com/ajc/terrorism/nation/0927hijackerlist.html

The headline reads: "FBI releases updated list of alleged hijackers." Above the headline is a link that says, "Click here to see 19 suspected hijackers." I clicked it. A large box popped up. It took a while for the photos to appear. There are 19 photos, along with names. The names appear to be Middle Eastern -- Arabs. Most of the men look like Arabs, although a few might pass as Mexicans. Only one of them looked vaguely like a European. They are divided into four lists, according to which flight they are said to have boarded. ****There were five men on American Airlines Flight 77, five on AA Flight 11, five on United Airlines Flight 175, and four on UA Flight 93 -- the flight that crashed in Pennsylvania.....'

'...Let's go to American Airlines Flight 77. This plane crashed into the Pentagon.

*** We are told that 64 people were on board. **** I count 56, including 6 crew members. There is no explanation offered for the absence of 8 names. **** There is no Arab name on this list. Something is definitely wrong here....'

AMERICAN AIRLINES FLIGHT 77 PASSENGER LIST
American Airlines Flight 77, from Washington to Los Angeles, crashed into the Pentagon **** with 64 people aboard. [I ONLY COUNT 56 - Ethan Allen]

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/trade.center/victims/AA77.victims.html

No Arabs on Flight 77
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=++no+arabs+on+flight+77

I'm waiting to hear your explanation. There must be one.

[Ethan_Allen]

'I am just surprised that a public building like the Pentagon, especially on a day when other big landmarks were attacked, was not more photographed. I can't see any reason why people who might have photos or film of the plane wouldn't come forward, but it just seems weird that there weren't more photos of that plane'

FILM OF PENTAGON CONFISCATED 911
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=FILM+OF+PENTAGON+CONFISCATED+911

[Ethan_Allen]

'Healthy skepticism, it seems, has curdled into paranoia. Wild conspiracy tales are peddled daily on the Internet, talk radio and in other media. Blurry photos, quotes taken out of context and sketchy eyewitness accounts have inspired a slew of elaborate theories: **** The Pentagon was struck by a missile;...'

Hey, I'm with Rumsfeld:

RUMSFELD SAID MISSILE HIT PENTAGON
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=+RUMSFELD+SAID+MISSILE+HIT+PENTAGON

Sounded to me like it came from the south. Loud, low, fast, and whiny. Since I had already been forewarned that something would happen in September, I immediately thought missile, even as I was standing in front of the TV watching the towers burn. Some people closer to the Pentagon said the plane (?) they saw was silent. I've read reports that depleted uranium was in the air for about a week.

I don't know exactly what happened that day, but count me as one who does NOT believe the official story.

[ncpatriot]

Art Bell had a guy from PM on his show last night talking about this.

[fight_truth_decay]

years after the fact people came forward with other photos. That was a subject adked on the Bell show. The PM editor responded that some of the "evidence" may have been withheld for investigative purposes, as in any crime investigation; and may be released in a couple years.

[fight_truth_decay]

Many more conspiracy theories will be in the next report, if one is done, reported the editor of PM on the Bell show.

[traumer]

Good reading... will continue later - it's rather long :o)

[TomB]

OK, you just said that there was only one shot of the first WTC impact. I don't think there is any doubt that the WTC were one of the most photographed spots in the city, and yet no film of it. Meanwhile, we have one less shot of the pentagon, something I've never taken a picture of on my many trips to DC (except from the Washinton Monument), and yet you find that strange. Like I asked, how would this picture have been taken? The plane came over the treetops, so there was no chance to follow the path of the plane. I just don't understand the confusion.

[TomB]

Yea, you can't trust those damn neocons......

.....or can you?

[foolscap]

Many more conspiracy theories will be in the next report, if one is done, reported the editor of PM on the Bell show

That was really a good show last night. When Art started off he talked about all the people who had contacted him before the show to give him grief about having the author on the program. I belong to message board and the people were upset also before the guy had even had a chance to speak and they talked endlessly about what a rag Popular Mechanics is for publishing their report.

I am amazed how many people buy into all this conspiracy stuff. It would have taken thousands of people to pull off the conspiracy they are talking about. They don't seem to get that you can't have a secret conspiracy involving that many people and keep it a secret. I wonder what these people think with. It certainly isn't their brains. They must have very unhappy lives if they believe that the government is so terribly all powerful they force their own citizens into planes to kill them on a whim. Of course these people also read a lot from DU so that proves they are miserable, unhappy people. The crap that passes for news on DU is mind boggling. It's disgusting when you hear their stuff parroted around the internet on other boards as though it is fact. DU is a case of the internet at it's worst.

[EternalVigilance]

The plane that impacted the Pentagon hit on the side AWAY from the Potomac, DC and the Mall.

That no one other than the lone security camera photographed it doesn't surprise me in the least.

Perhaps if it had hit from a different angle, towards the Mall, some tourist or somebody might have gotten a shot. And then again, maybe not...

[fight_truth_decay]

Thomas R. Olmsted, M.D. ......"So, I sent a FOIA request to the AFIP and asked for an expedited response. Fourteen months later, a few US soldiers dead, many Iraqi civilians pushing up daisies, and I finally get the list. Believe me that they weren’t a bit happy to give it up, and I really have no idea why they choose now to release it."

"No Arabs wound up on the morgue slab. However, three ADDITIONAL people not listed by American Airline sneaked in. I have seen no explanation for these extras. I did give American the opportunity to “revise” their original list, but they have not responded."

"The new names are: Robert Ploger, Zandra Ploger, and Sandra Teague. The AFIP claims that the only “passenger” body that they were not able to identify is the toddler, Dana Falkenberg, whose parents and young sister are on the list of those identified."

"The satanic masterminds behind this caper may be feeling pretty smug about the perfect crime, but they have left a raft of clues tying these unfortunates together. Stay tuned for part two for a much closer look of the cast of characters on this ill-fated flight."------- http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=870."

Autopsy List Flight 77

ambrosepaul, betruyeneneh, boothmary jane, brownbernard, burlingamecharles, calleysuzanne, caswellwilliam, charleboisdavid, clarksarah, cottomasia, debeuneurejames, dickensrodney, dillardeddie, drozchuck, edwardsbarbara, falkenbergcharles, falkenbergzoe, fergusonjames, flaggdarlene, flaggwilson, gabrielrichard, grayian, hallstanley, heidenbergermichelle, jackbryan, jacobysteven, judgeann, kellerchandler, kennedyyvonne, khannorma, kincaidkaren, leedong, lewisjennifer, lewiskenneth, mayrenee, menchacadora, newtonchristopher, olsonbarbara, ornedoruben, penningerrobert, plogerrobert, plogerzandra, raineslisa, reubentodd, sammartinojohn, simmonsdiane, simmonsgeorge, soppermari-rae, speismanrobert, steuerlenorma, taylorhilda, taylorleonard, teaguesandra, whittingtonleslie, yamnickyjohn, yanceyvicki, yangshuyin, zhengyuguag,

See also: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/steveseymour/pentagon/pentagon.htm

[TomB]

It doesn't matter one bit. As you can see from some of the responses to this thread, people can take strange occurrences or "coincidences" and turn them into a complete gubmint conspiracy.

The cognitive dissonance demonstrated eerily resembles the kind you find debating people who don't believe we landed on the moon.

[fight_truth_decay]

On September 27th, the FBI published photos of the “hijackers” of Flight 77:

American Airlines #77 Boeing 757
8:10 a.m. Departed Dulles for Los Angeles
9:39 a.m. Crashed into Pentagon
Khalid Almihdhar,Majed Moqed,Nawaf Alhazmi,Salem Alhazmi,Hani Hanjour.

www.fbi.gov/pressrel/penttbom/aa77/77.htm

http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=870

"Meanwhile, back at the ranch, the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology (AFIP), does a miraculous job and identified nearly all the bodies on November 16th 2001.

"The AFIP suggest these numbers:189 killed, 125 worked at the Pentagon and 64 were “passengers” on the plane. The AA list only had 56 and the list just obtained has 58. They did not explain how they were able to tell “victims” bodies from “hijacker” bodies. In fact, from the beginning NO explanation has been given for extra five suggested in news reports." [Excerpt]

[isom35]

did anyone ever tell CNN reporter Jaimie Mcintyre ?

http://thewebfairy.com/911/pentagon/27_1-mcintyre.swf

[EternalVigilance]

No kiddin'...

[Ethan_Allen]

interesting.....

I went to the link you gave:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/steveseymour/pentagon/pentagon.htm

It started to come up, and then flashed to:

'http://www.vialls.com/pentagon/pentagon.htm

Not Found
The requested URL was not found on this server.

Apache Server at vialls.com'

Do you know what's up with that? What were you trying to say?

[LS]

Dunno. I'm in Washington a little, and there's always people with cameras and video cams. Just seems odd, that's all. Nothing conspiratorial. Just one of those odd quirks of history.

[Ethan_Allen]

'NO explanation has been given for extra five suggested in news reports." [Excerpt]'

'Khalid Almihdhar,Majed Moqed,Nawaf Alhazmi,Salem Alhazmi,Hani Hanjour.'

Here is the flight manifest and autopsy report for Flight 77

http://www.sierratimes.com/03/07/02/article_tro.htm

Where are the hijackers' names?

[ReignOfError]

**** There is no Arab name on this list. Something is definitely wrong here....'

The CNN page you linked to is not a passenger manifest. It's a list of victims, clearly labeled as such. I don't see anything wrong with not listing the murderers among the victims.

[fight_truth_decay]

Yes.. now flashes but then links to http://www.vialls.com/
-Joe Viallis.

Pentagon Attack Plane Was An El Al Lookalike
Flights 77 and 1862 both had "vanishing" wings (finally captured it). Showed Photos of El Al crash sites in comparison to the Pentagon--both were suggested to have vanishing wings.

[Stultis]

Hey, I'm with Rumsfeld:

RUMSFELD SAID MISSILE HIT PENTAGON

Oh, brother. Is this really the kind of lame b.s. that makes you a "skeptic" (read, "moonbat conspiracy loon")? That passing remark by Rumsfeld is what you put up against the missing plane, the dead passengers, the cellphones calls including from Barbara Olsen, etc?

Here's what Rumsfeld said:

http://www.defenselink.mil/transcripts/2001/t11182001_t1012pm.html

They [find a lot] and any number of terrorist efforts have been dissuaded, deterred or stopped by good intelligence gathering and good preventive work. It is a truth that a terrorist can attack any time, any place, using any technique and it's physically impossible to defend at every time and every place against every conceivable technique. Here we're talking about plastic knives and using an American Airlines flight filed with our citizens, and the missile to damage this building and similar (inaudible) that damaged the World Trade Center. The only way to deal with this problem is by taking the battle to the terrorists, wherever they are, and dealing with them.

And this is supposed to be a Freudian slip revealing a vast conspiracy that disappeared a plane and its passengers and launched a missile at the Pentagon?! Why couldn't it be a simple reference to the use of passenger jets as missiles? Assume a minor transcription error and Rumsfeld was saying this directly. The statement is also more sensible in syntax and in context with this minor change:

Here we're talking about plastic knives and using an American Airlines flight filed with our citizens, and as the missile to damage this building

In any case it took me all of three minutes (just with google, I don't have Lexus-Nexis) to come up with a similar and unequivocal usage by Rumsfeld just a few months later:

http://www.defenselink.mil/transcripts/2002/t02032002_t0203abc.html

Rumsfeld: Well, anyone who looks at the techniques of taking American airliners filled with Americans and taking box openers and capturing crews and turning those airplanes into missiles and driving them into buildings and killing thousands of people, we know roughly the effect of that.

[ReignOfError]

Actually, I think there is only one video shot of the first plane impact on the WTC. Maybe the Pentagon isn't the object of a lot of tourists' shots, but you'd think it would be, along with the WH, Congress, and the memorials. Or maybe there isn't a good place from which to get a still pic of the Pentagon. I just thought it odd, and it wouldn't surprise me if, like in the JFK assassination, years after the fact people came forward with other photos.

http://www.defenselink.mil/photos/Sep2001/010914-F-8006R-006.html

That's a defense department aerial photo of the damage to the pentagon. It looks like the only places to get a clean shot of that side of the building is from the Pentagon grounds, from the air or from the highway (I-295?).

[Stultis]

The cognitive dissonance demonstrated eerily resembles the kind you find debating people who don't believe we landed on the moon.

I think they're actually some of the same people. IIRC one of the main figures involved in producing that stupid documentary about the moonlandings being faked is also a leading light among the 911 "skeptics".

[fight_truth_decay]

AFIP Autopsy List Flight 77 is what I pulled up as above. The links worked at the time I posted. Then they got crazy. Try googling without using the phrase "no Arabs on flight 77". That forms an opinion before the search and narrows the playing field. Not that you are doing that but an "unintentional tagged phrase" is limited to a certain mindset of results.

This conspiracy "junk" is tiring. I would go into mental fatique if I worked on this very long!

[fight_truth_decay]

[Tommyjo]

Would you say that face to face with Lt. Col. Steve O'Brien or his crew. Lt. Col O'Brien was the commander of the C-130 that witnessed the airliner crash into the Pentagon

Link

[investigateworld]

I agree a conspiracy this large would never secede, especially when the MSM hates Dubya. But I too have a problem with the debris field in front of the Pentagon. I saw the debris field from the Aeromexico crash in the early eighties, (Cerritos, CA) and it was hugh.

(Pssst any Lotto numbers?)

[ActionNewsBill]

I don't know exactly what happened that day, but count me as one who does NOT believe the official story.

I agree. There are too many things that just do not make sense.

[Keith in Iowa]

I posted the PM story as a comment within another FR article earlier today; but thought Popular Mechanic's findings might deserve its own thread and/or discussion.

In case you missed this:

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell: Debunking the 16 most prevalent 9/11 myths
	Posted by BurbankKarl On News/Activism 03/05/2005 5:20:41 PM CST · 42 replies · 1,599+ views Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell ^ | 3/5/05 | me Tonight's Show Research editor for Popular Mechanics magazine, Ben Chertoff, will discuss the 16 most prevalent claims made by conspiratorial theorists regarding 9/11 and how the staff of Popular Mechanics debunked each of them.

[TMSuchman]

These wacko theroies will cont. to come forth while there are wackos up on the short wave radio,[ie Dave VonKliest, and others...] I know that they have the freedom to be as stupid as they want to be,




Come on guys get a grip on life. There are more pressing issues than what happened on 9/11!


IMHO this is ZOT worthy!
I am just about to summon forth the KITTIES!

[Springman]

You don't know the truth!!!!

Pres. Bush 43, [May God Bless him], had his father, Bush 41[May God Bless him], steal a B-70 out of the Dayton Air museum, make sure the hijackers got to the right cities.

Then they were both out of DC and NYC. How strange was that!!!

I guess you know what I should post here, S/OFF!!

[TomB]

I think they're actually some of the same people. IIRC one of the main figures involved in producing that stupid documentary about the moonlandings being faked is also a leading light among the 911 "skeptics".

Words cannot begin to describe the hatred I have for these people who, you know, are only "asking questions". For some incredibly stupid or dishonest reason, they need all the information tied up into a nice little package with a pretty bow on top of it, or they'll declare it "questionable".

And then our opponents from DU and lefty blogs will link to this thread to show how crazy we are.

[ActionNewsBill]

Words cannot begin to describe the hatred I have for these people who, you know, are only "asking questions".

Why all the hatred? If these folks are wrong about what they say, then why not let them make fools of themselves.

For some incredibly stupid or dishonest reason, they need all the information tied up into a nice little package with a pretty bow on top of it, or they'll declare it "questionable".

When the OKC Murrah Center was blown up, there were plenty of FReepers who asked the same questions that these folks are asking, and still are to some extent. That goes for TWA Flight 800 as well.

The only difference is that it was Bill Clinton in office at the time and not GW Bush.

Are we all just supposed to take things at face value simply because we have a Republican President?

[Ethan_Allen]

'The CNN page you linked to is not a passenger manifest. It's a list of victims, clearly labeled as such. I don't see anything wrong with not listing the murderers among the victims.'

Oh, I see, guilty until proven innocent, particularly if you're Arab.

'...By now you have probably heard that many of the “hijackers” named by the FBI are alive and well. The Information Times, an on-line publication, reported that Saudi Arabia's Foreign Minister Prince Saud Al-Faisal told the Arabic Press after meeting with President George W. Bush on Sept. 20: "It was proved that five of the names included in the FBI list had nothing to do with what happened."

According to The Orlando Sentinel, the Saudi Arabian embassy confirmed that four of the five mentioned by Al-Faisal -Saeed Alghamdi, Mohand Alshehri, Abdul aziz Alo mari and **Salem Alhazmi**-are not dead and had nothing to do with the heinous terror attacks in New York and Washington. (source: Christopher J. Petherick - American Free Press....'

http://www.sierratimes.com/03/07/07/article_tro_flight77.htm

I can still remember an America when you were INNOCENT until PROVEN GUILTY, and the VICTIMS included those FALSELY ACCUSED.

[Stultis]

I don't know exactly what happened that day, but count me as one who does NOT believe the official story.

I agree. There are too many things that just do not make sense.

What is with you people? Hijacking airplanes and flying them into buildings (the "official" story) "do not make sense," but invocations (however noncommittal) of vast and byzantine conspiracies that would be required to eliminate the planes, and the passengers, and/or involve other factors like bombs and missiles do? On what planet?

[Stultis]

[sound of goalposts moving...]

So you concede that there aren't missing passengers after all?