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BREAKING: The Secret to Man's Aggression: in His Finger?
Reuters/Bilogical Psychological ^ | Fri Mar 4, 2005 04:04 PM ET | By Alison McCook

Posted on 03/06/2005 9:28:26 AM PST by sully777

NEW YORK (Reuters Health) - How long a man's second finger is relative to his fourth finger appears to predict whether he is prone to be physically aggressive toward others, according to a new study by researchers at the University of Alberta, Edmonton, Canada.

But it's not finger length that causes aggression, study author Allison A. Bailey warned in an interview.

She explained that the important factor is the male hormone testosterone. Fetuses are exposed to various levels of this hormone in the womb, and research shows that men who were exposed to higher levels tend to have shorter second fingers, relative to their fourth fingers. "More testosterone, relatively longer ring finger," co-author Dr. Peter L. Hurd told Reuters Health.

Men with shorter second fingers were probably exposed to more testosterone in the womb, and this may cause them to be more prone to physical aggression later in life, Bailey explained. "More testosterone in the womb predicts more physical aggression in men," she told Reuters Health.

Alternatively, both testosterone exposure and finger length may be influenced by a "deeper third variable," Hurd noted. Regardless, the study shows that "events in the womb can have subtle effects on children's personality," Hurd added.

This is not the first study to link the ratio between a man's second and fourth fingers to his personality, Bailey noted. Previous reports have found that men with smaller ratios - meaning, their second finger is much smaller than their fourth - tend to do better in sports, and are perceived as more dominant and masculine by women.

However, other research has shown that men with smaller second-to-fourth finger ratios are at higher risk of autism and immune deficiency.

To investigate how finger ratios match up with physical aggression, Bailey and Hurd measured the finger ratios in 298 psychology students, and asked them to complete a questionnaire measuring aggression.

The questionnaire measured four types of aggression, Bailey noted: physical ("if someone hits me, I hit back"), anger ("I flare up quickly"), hostility ("I am often eaten up by jealousy"), and verbal ("I tell my friends when I disagree with them").

The researchers found that shorter second-to-fourth finger ratios predicted proneness to physical aggression, but not other types of aggression, and only in men, not in women.

In general, men had smaller finger ratios than women, the authors report in the journal Biological Psychology.

Bailey cautioned that these findings only link a shorter finger ratio to a tendency toward physical aggression, and do not show that men with shorter ratios are actually more aggressive. "Somebody might never have acted on anything," she said.

Moreover, behavior is influenced by many other factors, Bailey added. Finger ratios are "just one piece of the puzzle," she said.

SOURCE: Biological Psychology, March 2005.


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: aggression; breakingfinger; males; thefinger
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I never knew fingers signified aggression.

"That man is angry at the oil cans. Stay away from the oil cans." --Steve Martin in The Jerk

1 posted on 03/06/2005 9:28:27 AM PST by sully777
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To: sully777

I give this story the finger.


2 posted on 03/06/2005 9:31:44 AM PST by isthisnickcool (This space for rent.)
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To: sully777
since when is a finger story breaking news?

SMACKS YOU OVER THE HEAD WITH A ROLLED UP NEWSPAPER

3 posted on 03/06/2005 9:33:15 AM PST by stuck_in_new_orleans
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To: sully777

Okay, are you supposed to look at your hand palm up or down, to count the fingers?


4 posted on 03/06/2005 9:33:28 AM PST by Husker24
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To: sully777

Discuss.

5 posted on 03/06/2005 9:33:36 AM PST by martin_fierro (< |:)~)
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To: sully777

He hates cans!


6 posted on 03/06/2005 9:34:36 AM PST by nuconvert (No More Axis of Evil by Christmas ! TLR)
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To: martin_fierro

I strongly suspect the opposable thumb set them up.


7 posted on 03/06/2005 9:35:49 AM PST by Tijeras_Slim (This ain't no party, this ain't no disco, this ain't no fooling around.....)
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To: sully777

I'd say, if he gives you the finger, he's probably mad.


8 posted on 03/06/2005 9:36:25 AM PST by nuconvert (No More Axis of Evil by Christmas ! TLR)
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To: Husker24

"Okay, are you supposed to look at your hand palm up or down, to count the fingers?"


The comparison is between the forefinger and the ring finger.


9 posted on 03/06/2005 9:37:06 AM PST by punster
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To: sully777
Not "Breaking News" and already posted.


10 posted on 03/06/2005 9:37:39 AM PST by CaptSkip
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To: sully777

11 posted on 03/06/2005 9:38:36 AM PST by Tuba Guy (Imagine Hillareah in the White House and BJ in the UN.....they do)
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To: CaptSkip

Wait. I'm developing the appropriate response to the ALREADY POSTED NOT THIS KIND OR THAT KIND OF NEWS thread nazis.

ARRRRRRRGHHHHHHHH. -- Howard Dean


12 posted on 03/06/2005 9:40:46 AM PST by sully777 (It's like my momma always said, "Two wrongs don't make a right but two Wrights make an airplane.")
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To: sully777
My bad, here... The Secret to Man's Aggression: in His Finger?
13 posted on 03/06/2005 9:45:31 AM PST by CaptSkip
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To: Tuba Guy

I thought that was BillyJeff's hand gestures during the announcement that he looked and looked but couldn't give a middle-class tax cut in 1993-94. Instead (starts this gesture) we're raising gas taxes and other "revenue enhancements" so we can get through this fiscal hole.


14 posted on 03/06/2005 9:46:50 AM PST by sully777 (It's like my momma always said, "Two wrongs don't make a right but two Wrights make an airplane.")
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To: sully777
"Wait. I'm developing the appropriate response to the ALREADY POSTED NOT THIS KIND OR THAT KIND OF NEWS thread nazis.

ARRRRRRRGHHHHHHHH. -- Howard Dean


Please don't be pissed. Please SEARCH before posting, and consider what is truly a "Breaking News" item, and what is not. Read guidelines for posting...no biggie.
15 posted on 03/06/2005 9:49:55 AM PST by CaptSkip
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To: sully777
Perhaps we should do the measurement of all newborn males. That way we can identify potential aggressors, label them as such, and chronically medicate them so as to initiate a new more feminine non-aggressive brave new world.

The social scientists Strauss and Gelles, whose studies show that in cases of domestic violence that the physical violence is initiated 50% of the time by the woman, are examples of aggressive troublemakers who should be among the FIRST to undergo compulsory measurement and medication.

Sarcasm off.
16 posted on 03/06/2005 9:53:32 AM PST by Bushforlife (I've noticed that everybody that is for abortion has already been born. ~Ronald Reagan)
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To: CaptSkip

"Wait. I'm developing the appropriate response to the ALREADY POSTED NOT THIS KIND OR THAT KIND OF NEWS thread nazis.

ARRRRRRRGHHHHHHHH. -- Howard Dean

Please don't be pissed. Please SEARCH before posting, and consider what is truly a "Breaking News" item, and what is not. Read guidelines for posting...no biggie.



Breaking news was a jab AAAAARRRRRRGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! (hey that feels good) AAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRHHHHH!!!!!!!WOBBLE WOBBLE WOBBLE WOBBLE (wiping spit from sides of mouth)


17 posted on 03/06/2005 9:55:41 AM PST by sully777 (It's like my momma always said, "Two wrongs don't make a right but two Wrights make an airplane.")
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To: CaptSkip

I'm taking a shower.


18 posted on 03/06/2005 9:57:41 AM PST by sully777 (It's like my momma always said, "Two wrongs don't make a right but two Wrights make an airplane.")
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To: Bushforlife

-Perhaps we should do the measurement of all newborn males. That way we can identify potential aggressors, label them as such, and chronically medicate them so as to initiate a new more feminine non-aggressive brave new world.-

No need for sarcasm labeling. This is the scary truth.


19 posted on 03/06/2005 9:58:11 AM PST by AmericanChef
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To: punster
The comparison is between the forefinger and the ring finger.

How can you be certain? They keep making reference to the second and fourth fingers. The forefinger by definition is the first finger.

The nut who carried out the study based it on tests of psychology students. This is an aberrant, crazy section of the general population.

It's a stupid article anyways about a stupid study probably funded by my money approved by stupid bureaucrats.

20 posted on 03/06/2005 9:58:41 AM PST by LoneRangerMassachusetts (Some say what's good for others, the others make the goods; it's the meddlers against the peddlers)
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To: Lazmataz

J.C. picture ping


21 posted on 03/06/2005 9:59:10 AM PST by G.Mason ("If you are broken It is because you are brittle" ... K.Hepburn, The Lion In Winter)
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To: sully777

Wood-shop teachers were excluded from this study, I hope.


22 posted on 03/06/2005 10:02:53 AM PST by hollywood (Stay on topic, please.)
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To: AmericanChef
Surely you don't mean to imply that the widespread administration of psychotropic medications to young males for "hyperactivity" [a trend which is largely forced on parents by the female administrators/teachers in our public schools most of whom are graduates of Universities in which feminist dogma is accepted as truth] is part of a trend to eliminate troublesome behaviors such as maleness?
23 posted on 03/06/2005 10:06:29 AM PST by Bushforlife (I've noticed that everybody that is for abortion has already been born. ~Ronald Reagan)
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To: sully777

I smell doo doo!


24 posted on 03/06/2005 10:07:21 AM PST by xander
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To: sully777
"More testosterone, relatively longer ring finger,"

2nd, 4th, ring finger. Which fingers are the talking about?

25 posted on 03/06/2005 10:09:18 AM PST by RightWhale (Please correct if cosmic balance requires.)
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To: RightWhale
2nd, 4th, ring finger. Which fingers are the talking about?

"A new study shows that the shorter his index finger is relative to his ring finger, the more likely he is to be physically aggressive." -- from this OTHER article.

26 posted on 03/06/2005 10:13:45 AM PST by FreeKeys ("Journalists ... almost always screw up science stories." -- Charley Reese)
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To: sully777

Breaking my finger?


27 posted on 03/06/2005 10:15:34 AM PST by mhx
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To: mhx

Actually I find this story interesting. There is also evidence regarding toe lengths, ear lengths.


28 posted on 03/06/2005 10:33:52 AM PST by Beowulf9
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To: LoneRangerMassachusetts

Think "digit" instead of finger and you can follow it (with the thumb being the first digit).


29 posted on 03/06/2005 10:47:50 AM PST by totherightofu
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To: sully777
I'm taking a shower.

I'm not sure from your #17 and #18, but I guess we're still friends???

After a few years, and lots of advice from veterans, I've learned to search with multiple terms, before posting.
30 posted on 03/06/2005 10:56:48 AM PST by CaptSkip
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To: sully777

Here in Boston, a/k/a Bozotown, you can tell an aggressive male (or female) by the length of the middle finger they are aiming in your direction.


31 posted on 03/06/2005 11:17:19 AM PST by Lunkhead_01
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To: Beowulf9

I've discovered from this story that I'm prone to become violent and am probably going to kill someone. I guess you learn something new every day.


32 posted on 03/06/2005 11:17:29 AM PST by mhx
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To: stuck_in_new_orleans
You have a good point. The first time this story surfaced was about two years ago. The press is always a sucker for a very simple (apparent) explanation for a very complex situation. This is just another example of that tendency.

Congressman Billybob

Latest column, "Death in a Courtly Manner"

33 posted on 03/06/2005 11:21:58 AM PST by Congressman Billybob ("The truth is out there." Yep, it's on the Internet, but it takes digging, and common sense.)
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To: sully777

Hmmmm, I think this theory is about as right as the one that says "The size of a man's shoe is equal to the size of his....." ahem, well you know.


34 posted on 03/06/2005 11:25:44 AM PST by CitizenM
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To: CitizenM

feet?


35 posted on 03/06/2005 5:21:25 PM PST by xander
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To: totherightofu; LoneRangerMassachusetts

Are people that do Chisenbop 5 or 50 times more likely to have this trait?


36 posted on 03/06/2005 5:30:21 PM PST by sam_paine (X .................................)
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To: sam_paine
Are people that do Chisenbop 5 or 50 times more likely to have this trait?

Note to file. Are Korean Chisenboppers more likely to figure piano keying or calculate earned income from picking pockets? I see math and manual dexterity in both. One's bad the other's not. Start measuring the fingers!

37 posted on 03/06/2005 6:59:36 PM PST by LoneRangerMassachusetts (Some say what's good for others, the others make the goods; it's the meddlers against the peddlers)
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To: sam_paine
Are people that do Chisenbop 5 or 50 times more likely to have this trait?

Note to file. Are Korean Chisenboppers more likely to figure piano keying or calculate earned income from picking pockets? I see math and manual dexterity in both. One's bad the other's not. Start measuring the fingers!

38 posted on 03/06/2005 6:59:37 PM PST by LoneRangerMassachusetts (Some say what's good for others, the others make the goods; it's the meddlers against the peddlers)
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To: sully777

Not too long ago, the length of this digit was supposed to indicate a prediliction toward homosexuality... too short: gay... long: you like girls. Now it's aggression... busy finger.


39 posted on 03/06/2005 11:29:04 PM PST by Swordmaker (Tagline now open, please ring bell.)
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To: sully777

Giving the Finger

Before the Battle of Agincourt in 1415, the French, anticipating victory over the English, proposed to cut off the middle finger of all captured English soldiers.  Without the middle finger it would be impossible to draw the Renowned English longbow and therefore be incapable of fighting in the future.

This famous weapon was made of the native English Yew tree, and the act of drawing the longbow was known as "plucking the yew" (or "pluck yew").

Much to the bewilderment of the French, the English won a major upset and began mocking the French by waving their middle fingers at the defeated French, saying, "See, we can still pluck yew!  "PLUCK YEW!"

Since 'pluck yew' is rather difficult to say, the difficult consonant cluster at the beginning has gradually changed to a labiodental fricative 'F', and thus the words often used in conjunction with the ne-finger-salute are mistakenly thought to have something to do with an intimate encounter.  It is also because of the pheasant feathers on the arrows used with the longbow that the symbolic gesture is known as "giving the bird."

And yew thought yew knew everything.


40 posted on 03/06/2005 11:34:00 PM PST by april15Bendovr
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To: LoneRangerMassachusetts

Finger #1 is the thumb.


41 posted on 03/06/2005 11:34:05 PM PST by The Red Zone
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To: xander
I smell doo doo!

It's on your finger.

made you look!

42 posted on 03/06/2005 11:37:11 PM PST by Hank Rearden (Never allow anyone who could only get a government job attempt to tell you how to run your life.)
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To: Swordmaker

Not too long ago, the length of this digit was supposed to indicate a prediliction toward homosexuality... too short: gay... long: you like girls. Now it's aggression... busy finger.



So what your saying is that long fingers (and big hands) indicate more than aggression? LOL


43 posted on 03/06/2005 11:39:17 PM PST by sully777 (It's like my momma always said, "Two wrongs don't make a right but two Wrights make an airplane.")
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To: LoneRangerMassachusetts

What is the meaning if the piano player likes to "choke up" on the white piano keys (i.e. press them well in between the black keys, close to the backboard). I do this, and I never noticed it was distinctive until someone commented to me about it. Due to leverage, the keys require more force to press back there, but that's what I like.


44 posted on 03/06/2005 11:41:31 PM PST by The Red Zone
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To: Tijeras_Slim

It's a conspiricy I tell ya! Frisk the bladder and the spleen, their hidden sumthin, I can smell it!


45 posted on 03/06/2005 11:47:52 PM PST by KingofQue
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To: sully777

The Jerk----one of the greatest movie comedies EVER!
---don't remember the thing about the oil cans, though,
my favorite line in the movie is when the tough motorcycle daredevil "Patty Bernstein" tells Navin she will try to guess his weight, so she clutches his butt with both hands, and feels around, and at length, he laughs and says "WOW! You're really trying to be accurate!"


46 posted on 03/06/2005 11:49:03 PM PST by willyboyishere (q)
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To: april15Bendovr

SO why do the Brits put two fingers in the shape of a V (fingernails pointing towards you) and gesture upward intensely?


47 posted on 03/06/2005 11:50:27 PM PST by sully777 (It's like my momma always said, "Two wrongs don't make a right but two Wrights make an airplane.")
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To: willyboyishere

The Jerk----one of the greatest movie comedies EVER!
---don't remember the thing about the oil cans, though,
my favorite line in the movie is when the tough motorcycle daredevil "Patty Bernstein" tells Navin she will try to guess his weight, so she clutches his butt with both hands, and feels around, and at length, he laughs and says "WOW! You're really trying to be accurate!"



LOL
It's the beginning of the movie where Martin finds a job at a service station, pumping gas. There was a crazy sharp shooter firing at Steve Martin after picking him randomly in a phonebook. He kept missing Steve and hittting the oil cans. At first, Martin thinks the cans are defective because they spring leaks but soon realizes the sharp shooter is firing at him which prompts Steve's quick-witted response, "That man is angry at the oil cans. Stay away from the oil cans."


48 posted on 03/06/2005 11:58:41 PM PST by sully777 (It's like my momma always said, "Two wrongs don't make a right but two Wrights make an airplane.")
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Comment #49 Removed by Moderator

To: sully777

And the whole discussion on finger length ratio can be rendered moot with one careless rip on the table saw.


50 posted on 03/07/2005 12:30:05 AM PST by meadsjn
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