Posted on 03/06/2005 3:07:44 PM PST by smokeyb
In case you have failed to notice, this happens quite often with some posters on this great forum.
Indeed, I notice, and anyone can click on my recent posts to see the ones that play that game ALL the time.
Those are just the ones I'm allowed to refute. --
There are another whole class of 'authorities' here at FR that are virtually unrefutable.. If you debate with them a bit too vigorously, -- you are deemed a disrupter, and banned.
Though I never brought it up I am a degreed economist, BA and MA, hardly self-touted. Though it doesn't mean I know shiite at least let's be accurate. Thus, there is SOME authority there certainly not as much as those who speculate about all the miracles to be expected from this scheme: miraculous price declines while production increases, ability to discount the obvious effects of long term financing, pretenses that the clear effects of adding a massive price increase don't exist, ability to ignore the effects on people with fixed incomes, poohing poohing transitional impacts, a completely distorted view of how prices are established, a completely distorted view of how the income tax affects prices and several others.
I didn't ask you or anyone to give my point credence without examination but refute it if you can.
Imports are charged the same sales taxes as any domestic sale so that prescription is already being done.
We could just carve a slice out of their arm too each time they purchase something it pain is such a great teacher.
These savings are wildly overstated and will not amount to as much as claimed since state income taxes will still be in effect, local income taxes will still be in effect and thus, require the same degree of administrative oversight. There will be a need for a bureaucracy to handle the rebates some have mentioned. There will be a need for enforcement of the law and tracking of the "not taxed purchases" allowed. Why wouldn't everyone just incorporate themselves, form a business and avoid the sales tax?
Laffer is an advocate of SUPPLY side economics.
The total TAX burden is nowhere close to 45% that figure can only be reached by including the costs of regulation which will be unaffected by a tax law change. And even then it is a stretch.
I have been discussing only income taxes because of the claims about the income tax being an element of the cost structure of products. Since I do not dispute the contention that the other taxes ARE part of that structure and do believe that wrt them prices could be lowered by shifting to a sales tax I have ignored them.
The extremists who shill this abominable Sales Tax are nothing but conartists peddling poisonous snake-oil.
Oh my, time to clean the lunch off my screen ;O)
lOL, I really do have to give up eating and trying to read these threads at the same time. Makes for a terrible mess occasionally.
Sorry but I didn't bring up anything about myself and your dragging in my profile is no indication that I did.
Since I have mainly asked questions about this plan and expressed doubts about some of its advocate's contentions there really hasn't been much to refute. Accepting those claims on faith is hardly a refutation of anything however.
This plan will go nowhere in any case once people realize they will be paying a 40% sales tax in some locales and their tax bills will go through the roof. My questions will be the least of your concerns.
BTW my entire career has been spent dealing with financial matters which means my concerns and questions are entirely legitimate. It will take much more than a few semi-relevent posts to allay them.
No answer to that legitimate question I see.
Glory be.. One of FR foremost economists has the solution for everyone if this abominable tax passes.
Incorporate yourself as a BS factory, and claim that your product is fertilizer.
Everything you need to keep pumping out the crap will be tax free.
No answer to that legitimate question I see.
Only an economist of your stature would claim that such a tax avoidance scheme is "legitimate".
-- Whatta joke you've proved yourself to be.
Since you have now (I appreciate your modesty in not doing so up to now) enlightened us as to your professional credentials, I would consider it a favor if you would be kind enough to also enlighten us as to just how YOU would propose we extricate ourselves from this communist inspired mess called the progressive income tax in which we currently find ourselves entangled.
Yes I do know I'm on target. I am an American and a Patriot. America means everything to me and I will take on anyone that trys to destroy Her. Thanks for coming back to me on this and I hope we comment to each other again.
Do you practice being dense or is it second nature or is being deceptive just too irresistible?
I asked a legitimate QUESTION I didn't say the activity was legitimate. You, even you, know that such a scheme would be turned to as soon as the realization that big savings would result from it.
Economists rarely ask or propose such schemes in any case that is the role of accountants.
I have no good way of doing this short of massive re-education of the people so that they want it be done. This would require the complete reform of the educational establishment and the reduction of the power of the RATmedia to a manageable level.
The reduction of rates from confiscatory to merely obscene is the best first step though and Bush is doing that.
Certainly the rich will pay more under any scheme even the FT since they buy more than the poor and I agree with you that progressive income taxes are unfair and after a certain point is reached counterproductive.
Because 'incorporating yourself' would be a BS tax dodge. Illegal on its face.
No answer to that legitimate question I see.
Only an economist of your stature would claim that such a tax avoidance scheme is "legitimate".
-- Whatta joke you've proved yourself to be.
I asked a legitimate QUESTION I didn't say the activity was legitimate.
Do you practice being dense or is it your second nature to be deceptive? I answered both your question & your claim that it was "legitimate".
You, even you, know that such a scheme would be turned to as soon as the realization that big savings would result from it. Economists rarely ask or propose such schemes in any case that is the role of accountants.
Exactly. -- Your question was one worthy of a second rate shyster bean counter, not of the 'economist' you tout yourself to be.
Very good! We now have a base from which to work.
How would you characterize a person who was subject to an outside agency's ability to lay, and enforce, an APRIORY claim to the fruits of his labor?
Your ignorance can be forgiven since you probably don't see these phony incorporations as I do with regularity.
PAI's legal philosophy "Oh, we don't have to worry about it since it is illegal."
I would characterize them as typical citizens of modern industrial states. In our particular case they are citizens which either wanted or agreed that their legislators could enact such laws.
As it stands right now only half the population pays ANY income taxes. So right away there are half whom any change will negatively impact.
I do not disagree with either of those statements and do not think that they disagree with my much more bold characterization. I simply call them slaves for that is exactly what they are regardless of whether they themselves realize that to be their condition or how they came to such condition.
As it stands right now only half the population pays ANY income taxes. So right away there are half whom any change will negatively impact.
That is true and certainly part of the problem with this communist mess called the progressive income tax. It is DESIGNED to foment class warfare!
You have admitted that you don't have a solution to the current mess but continue to snipe at those who offer a solution. Why is that?
The fairtax certainly isn't perfect. NO tax will ever be perfect but I submit that the Fairtax bill, if implemented as it is currently written, would put the vast majority in this country MILES ahead of their current state and would say the same thing even if I accepted the notion that retail prices would not change at all under that scheme which I don't in fact do.
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