Skip to comments.PM Sharon: Jews Will Continue to Live and Pray in Hevron
Posted on 03/07/2005 2:29:56 PM PST by Nachum
(IsraelNN.com) Prime Minister Ariel Sharon responded this afternoon to the attack near Hevron's Cave of the Patriarchs.
Sharon said that Jews will continue to live in Hevron and pray at the Tomb of the Patriarchs. He said the attack was "an attempt to harm Jewish freedom of worship" and that he would stand by every person's right to pray there. He also said that the attack only strengthened Israel's insistence that the PA fight terrorism.
The Prime Minister made the statements at the beginning of a Likud faction meeting.
The difference would be that the Palestinians could persona non grata individuals for cause. So you'd have a much more peaceful population less prone to inciting their neighbors.
The current situation in Hebron is unsustainable, if peace is a goal. The settlers there now are extremists, many of whom want the whole town evacuated of Arabs. This attracts the Arab fanatics.
It's Hebron - not Hevron
Abraham, Sarah & Isaac (all purported to be buried there).
Remember, Abraham was the father of Ishmael (where the Arab nations began) - with a handmaiden. Abraham was also the father of Isaac (where the Jewish nations continued) - with Sarah [his wife].
While the muslims honor Abraham as the father of their nation - they also believe Ishmael is the TRUE HEIR of all that GOD promised to Abraham in the Bible (but they don't believe in the Bible you understand) - just in the inheritance. And .. according to Jewish law (and Abraham was Jewish), the eldest son receives all of the father's goods. So Ishmael heirs believe they are entitled to everything.
If people would just check their maps - they will find that the area from the Nile to the Euphrates IS FULL OF ARABS.
That's why the city of Hebron is so populated by Arabs. It's also why all the Arabs want to push Israel into the sea - and why the Arabs claim that Israel STOLE the Arabs' land.
This is why we have such hatred for Israel still today - 4000 years they have been hating the people of Isaac. And .. the media wonders what America did to incite the terrorists .. we didn't .. it was incited 4000 years ago.
The idea that the son of a slave girl would have precidence over the son of a wife in inheritance matters would only happen in Islamic societies where they condone "temporary marriages" which are basically prostitution contracts.
WARNING: This is a high volume ping list
WARNING: This is a high volume ping list
You're exactly correct. And .. this is why it has been so easy to convince the Arab nations that they are the rightful heirs.
Point of information:
The anglization of the Hebrew name for the city "Hevron" is actually closer to the true sound than "Hebron". The middle consonant sound is a Vet, which makes the consonant sound of a V.
Now you can continue with your propaganda.
The Bible calls it "Hebron" - and that's good enough for me.
And .. it's not propaganda - it's what the Bible says - and I didn't write it - so you can take up your complaint with GOD.
The Bible is written in Hebrew. You go learn it.
It's pronounced "CHeVron" in original Hebrew ("CH" being the back-of-throat sound), not HEEB-rone.
It's also written in Greek!
What's with the arguing over the pronunciation - I was only commenting on how it was spelled in the article.
Call me a stickler :)
The Arabs want the whole region evacuated by Jews. To hell with the Arab gutter. After 9/11, their true face came forth! What's the real difference between "moderate " Arabs and fanatics? A little patience?
The New Testament was written in Greek. The Old Testament was written in Hebrew.
You are correct!
HEVRON IS CORRECT. UNFORTUNATELY IDIOTS DONT KNOW HOW TO TRANSLATE THE ORININAL HEBREW.
Immenently practical (final) solution.
I suggest that we apply your precedent to all of Jerusalem. All Arabs will be granted consular status centered on the confines of the dome of the rock (not one inch more). Any Arab could be ejected as "persona non grata" for cause (not hard to come by). Of course they'd need a passport to leave the Dome of The Rock.
And any Arab who threw a rock from the Temple Mount could (and should) be shot on sight as a terrorist.
Yes, its all the Israelis fault.
David Wilder, the leader of the community, is not an extremist. Have you ever met anyone from Chevron (nod to Nachum's correct pronunciation)?
Are you reading The New Yorker again? Your equivalency arguments don't stand up to the facts. Are you aware that the Jewish citizens of Hebron are shelled daily. They dont respond in kind. Might that daily shelling contribute to their wanting the Muslims out, seeing as peaceful coexistence does not appear to be a Muslim trait?
What explains the slaughter of the Hebron Jewish community in 1929? Why are you an apologist for terrorists who kill unarmed women and behead children?
Cafferata later testitifed:
"On hearing screams in a room I went up a sort of tunnel passage and saw an Arab in the act of cutting off a child's head with a sword. He had already hit him and was having another cut, but on seeing me he tried to aim the stroke at me, but missed; he was practically on the muzzle of my rifle. I shot him low in the groin. Behind him was a Jewish woman smothered in blood with a man I recognized as a[n Arab] police constable named Issa Sherif from Jaffa in mufti. He was standing over the woman with a dagger in his hand. He saw me and bolted into a room close by and tried to shut me out-shouting in Arabic, "Your Honor, I am a policeman." ... I got into the room and shot him."
Thank you, but I have already spent 3 years studying the PERSON WHO WROTE THE BIBLE - and not the scribes who wrote it down on paper. I'm more interested in learning how GOD thinks. I just have a different focus of study.
I have studied the life of Paul somewhat because of his evangelism.
What a thoughtful thing to say - I'm sure those who labored so long and faithfully to help the world understand what GOD had to say are very appreciative of your words.
I'll admit that mysticism doesn't agree with me.
Tell me, though, what was the prevailing religion in Tarsus during the time that Paul was reported to have been there?
Abraham was Babylonian
True Jews are descendants of Judah, one of the twelve patriarchs of Israel.
Hmmmm? Can you point me to chapter and verse for that information that Abraham was a Babylonian?
Several religions and races were Babylonian, just as several were Roman later on. Babylonia covered a lot of ground and several peoples. Abraham was a true, monotheistic, Hebrew believer.
Judah was Abraham's great-grandson. As for the "lost tribes," no one has enough substantial evidence to know where ancient Assyria scattered them to, although some claim to have spiritualist/mystical knowledge of that. People of only one religion but of several races keep the Torah, as unchanged as they can, word-for-word, as far as I know.
The Bible states that Abram was born at "Ur of the Chaldees"
Chaldea was located in the southern portion of Babylon.
As for the chapter and verse . . . I'm tired. I'm going to sleep.
The cave itself has protected status by treaty already. It does not seem to stop the Arabs though. What good is more paperwork?
...The current situation in Hebron is unsustainable, if peace is a goal. The settlers there now are extremists, many of whom want the whole town evacuated of Arabs. This attracts the Arab fanatics.
I think you have your head on backwards this morning. While calls to drive the Jews out of the area are common in the media from the Arabs, the Jews themselves have never spoken of driving the Arabs out of the area. I find it also humorous to call the Jews "settlers" in a town that they have lived in for 4000 years. How long do you have to live some place to not be a "settler"? Seeing that the population of Hebron in Jews is fairly consistent, and the population of Arabs in the last 50 years has boomed to well over 50 times its original size it is pretty clear that the Arabs are settling in the area in vast numbers.
As you guessed it is not about peace, it is about genocidal fantasies of the Arabs. I would think for peace's sake, letting the Hebrews live in Hebron and the Arabs return to Arabia would be the best, and obvious course of action. After all, the illegal immigrants of the Arab population in Israel have built twice as many settlements as the Israeli's in Israel.
Are you seeing the pattern yet? Or are you still addicted to the Arab propaganda?
Although, technically, in Biblical Hebrew the vet probably wasn't a vet but a soft "b" -- a sound that doesn't exist in English, but can be approximated as "bh." Just like the vav was a "w," the dalet was a cross between a "d" and a hard "th" (as in "though," not a soft "th" as in "thrift") etc.....
That's fine - I'm not too lazy to look it up! It's in Genesis 11:31
However the Lord brought Abram out of his land and his family and then in Genesis 14:13 - GOD calls him - Abram the Hebrew! In Chapter 15 - GOD made a covenant with Abram - and renamed him Abraham - so I guess he was no longer a Babylonian.
It's also in Genesis 15:18 where GOD tells Abram - HE will give him and his heirs all the land "from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates."
So .. the Israel/Arab conflict is about that piece of land which is so rich in oil - a land dispute between the families of 2 half-brothers.
On the next episode of "South Park," Eric becomes an expert on Mideast policy when he shoves a Koran up his butt and craps it out of his mouth.
Looks to me that the author of Genesis merely refered to the fact that Abraham dwelt in Hebron - Hevron - CHeVron.
That is the first time the word Hebrew is used in the bible and it's context is used to denote one who dwells in, or is from Hevron.
That doesn't make Abraham a Jew.
There have been two major massacres and Hebron, in 1929 and 1994. In 1929, there were Arab heroes who risked their lives to hide Jews. In 1994, there were Israeli heroes who risked their lives to help the Arab victims. In the wake of both, the people of the victims were arguably treated worse than the people of the perpetrators. The paralells are strong, and one cannot appreciate the situation there without understanding both.
It's a highly charged situation and a place where "disengagement" makes even more sense than it does anywhere else. Perhaps later, the city can move on in the spirit of those who tried to help their neighbors in 1929 and 1994.
But as long as some on both sides lionize the perpetrators without sanction, that time is a ways away.
I suggest that we apply your precedent to all of Jerusalem. All Arabs will be granted consular status centered on the confines of the dome of the rock (not one inch more). Any Arab could be ejected as "persona non grata" for cause (not hard to come by). Of course they'd need a passport to leave the Dome of The Rock.Al Aqsa mosque predates the Dome. I expect the Mount to end up under Pali control, with the border drawn precisely to give the Western Wall to Israel. At that point, thrown rocks become an international incident. If the Palestinians want to be a grownup nation it is on them to prevent it.
And any Arab who threw a rock from the Temple Mount could (and should) be shot on sight as a terrorist.
What a surprise: ARABS KILL JEWS AGAIN AND YOUR SOLUTION IS TO MOVE THE JEWS OUT.That particular bunch, yes. Just as it doesn't make sense to let a colony of Hamas sympathizers live in Tel Aviv.
You support "transfer", don't you?
Mar. 7, 2005. Shortly before 9:00am, an Arab terrorist sprayed gunfire at Israelis standing at the entrance to the Machpela Cave, the tomb of the Biblical Patriarchs in Hevron. Four people were injured including a Border Guard soldier who sustained serious wounds.
Feb. 26, 2005. An Arab woman attempted to stab a border policeman with a knife in Hebron. The woman was shot and seriously wounded. The border policeman was not hurt in the incident.
April 25, 2004. A border policeman was killed and three others were injured by shots fired at their vehicle near Hebron.
Feb. 27, 2004. An Israeli couple were gunned down by terrorists as they drove on the Hebron-Beersheba road between Eshkolot and Sansana on Friday night. The two are survived by their two-year-old daughter, Michelle.
Sept, 26, 2003. Two Israelis were murdered, including a baby girl, and two others wounded in a shooting attack on the settlement of Negohot, near the city of Hebron. An Islamic Jihad terrorist, recently released from Israeli prison, carried out the attack.
Aug. 19, 2003. A suicide bomber a Muslim religious leader from Hebron blew himself up on board a bus in Jerusalem, killing 22 people and wounding 136, many of them children and babies.
June 8, 2003. An Israeli was killed when two Palestinian gunmen opened fire on him near the Machpela Cave in Hebron. Earlier in the day two Palestinian terrorists shot and wounded a border police officer in the same area.
May 17, 2003. A husband and his pregnant wife from Kiryat Arba were murdered on Saturday night when a suicide bomber blew himself up next to them as they walked in Hebron's Gross Square.
Mar. 7, 2003. A married couple from Kiryat Arba was killed and eight people were wounded Friday night by armed terrorists who infiltrated into the settlement.
Jan. 17, 2003. Palestinian terrorists killed an Israeli in his home in an isolated encampment north of Kiryat Arba,as he, his wife, and five children were eating their Shabbat evening meal. Ozeri's five-year-old daughter and two guests sustained light-to-moderate wounds.
Dec. 27, 2002. Two Palestinian gunmen infiltrated into the settlement of Otniel south of Hebron Friday night, killing four Israelis (including 2 soldiers) and wounding six. Three soldiers were lightly wounded in a later gunbattle with one of the terrorists. The gunman sprayed the dining room with bullets and threw hand grenades at the diners.
Dec. 12, 2002. Two soldiers, a man and a woman, were killed in Hebron by arab snipers.
Nov. 15, 2002. Palestinian gunmen opened fire and tossed geenades on a group of Israelis leaving Friday night prayer services in the Jewish Quarter of Hebron. Border Policemen and soldiers were gunned down as they responded to the gunfire. Twelve people were killed and 15 wounded.
Oct. 8, 2002. 1 person was killed and 3 were wounded (1 critical, 1 very serious) when shots were fired from a passing car south of Hebron.
Sept. 23, 2002. An Israeli man was killed and his three children were wounded (one seriously) in a shooting attack near the Cave of the Patriarchs, close to the Avraham Avinu neighborhood in Hebron.
June 11, 2002. Three students from a Kiryat Arba junior high school suffered moderate-to-serious wounds when a bomb exploded as they left the Sde Kalev agricultural plot near the village of Bani Naim, southeast of Hebron.
April 27, 2002. At least two terrorists, wearing IDF uniforms including flak jackets, infiltrated the settlement of Adora near Hebron yesterday and murdered four Israelis, including a five-year-old girl. They also wounded seven others, including the girl's mother and brothers.
Oct. 3, 2001. Terrorists shoot two women at Hebron Succot celebration.
Aug. 23, 2001. Palestinian sniper shot and wounded Tzviel Meshulam, 11, and his brother Matanel, 21, as they stood on the porch of their Beit Schneerson apartment in Hebron. One bullet passed through Matanel's hand and hit Tzviel's chest.
July 12, 2001. Two Israelis killed near Kiryat Arba.
Mar. 21, 2001. Palestinian snipers shot 10-month-old Shalhevet Tehiya Pass in the head as she was in her mother Uriya's arms and moderately wounded her father Yitzhak, 24, in the legs as they stood at the entrance to the Avraham Avinu neighborhood.
More moral equivalency. I guess with that outlook you believed John Kerry - that US policy was to commit atrocities and war crimes in Vietnam making the US military the equivalent of the Viet Cong.
Using your moral logic, if one man (Dr Goldstein) with a previous history of helping Arabs, acting alone and spontaneously, losing it, is the same as a deliberately incited, mob attack including police action (Hebron Arabs in 1929), then Kerry must have been correct.
And what sanction does one seek for the perpetrator of the equivalent massacre of 1994? I assure you all (where all = 1) are dead.
Wilder can sound reasonable because he is reasonable. Does that mean every last man, woman and Jewish Hebron child is reasonable? By your gold standard of one man = labeling all, every single person would have to be above reproach or be labeled fanatics. Unfair standard.
Double moral standards applied deleteriously to Jews/Israelis has a specific meaning which I am sure does not apply to you. So maybe you want to rethink your faulty comparisons.
Moshe Givati made remarks about a singular event where one child was killed by Jewish gunfire. Again not the same. He also had very positive things to say about Dr Goldsteins conduct towards Arabs prior to the tragic episode.
Saying some Israelis, even those who may be soldiers, are hostile to Jewish Hebronites is like quoting Noam Chomsky on the Bush administration. All sound and fury signifying nothing.
Gee, your whole list is after the Oslo Accords that brought peace to the area. Before then, the Arabs did not have police control in Hebron. Could it be, that giving Israel's land to Arabs brings war not peace?!
Could it be, that the old war dog Sharon is going to start the worst war in Israel's history, with a road map?
Eric has been an expert in Mideast policy since his daddy Arafat produced him.
I support throwing the bastards out of the country that did not come from here. That is 80% of them. The ones that take up arms against the legitimate government, Israel I support prison for them, and the ones that kill people in terrorist attacks I support public execution. Towns that harbor terrorist attacks I support carpet bombing.
Jenin, Ramallah should simply not exist at this point.
Frankly I support carpet bombing Syria, Iran, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and all countries that field terrorist army's. A hostile attack on a civilian target is an act of war that should be answered with massive response.
They were given atonomous control of over 90% of their population in a peace gesture on the path of making them free in a State of their own. They took that overly generous gesture and used it to try and kill the ones that gave them the gift because they wanted it all, and the Jews dead to boot. The Arabs simply lost all legitimate claim to the land when they fostered an insurrection of war crimes from that land when it was given over to their control. Now they are nothing but criminals that declared war on a greater foe. And in the end, they WILL pay a very high price for that. It is the way of history, those who poke sharp sticks at dogs on leashes, tend to rue the day when the leash breaks. The dogs do not forget the laughes, the injury, the taunts. And one day, when they go to far and the dog must defend its life, they get torn up bigtime.
Isaiah 14:29 is their day, it is the prelude to the complete destruction of the Arab Leagues holdings in the Land of Israel as God promised it. Read Isaiah 15-19. City after city after city gone, all in one evening. Damascus is included in the list. But then Damascus is inside the old borders of Israel.
Cling to your retoric, because when the boat sinks, your lead life preserver will show its true value.
First of all, Chomsky is not reflective of Americans as a whole. Yet in Israel, the majority rather clearly favors disengagement. Two of the four biggest parties support it fully (Labor and Shinui), as does a majority of the largest party (Likud). Polls consistently show major support for it among the Israeli population. The concept really isn't in question, though the methods are.
Secondly, while there are of course many differences between the First and Second Hebron Massacres, they are similar events in their impact. The first massacre's participation was more widespread. The second is far more recent, within the memory of most people in the region. The first involved some police action, the second was by a uniformed military officer in uniform carrying a military weapon. The first was general, the second quick and designed for maximum impact (imagine a suicide bombing on a major holiday in a major synagogue). More people died in the first, but were it not for one gutsy Palestinian armed with only a fire extinguisher, that might not have been the case.
Leaving aside how he managed to get into the Cave, Goldstein's massacre could have been dismissed as the actions of a lone nut. The reaction has been more problematic. Yes, the overwhelming majority of Israelis condemn what he did. But those who do not have been tolerated far more than those who lionize suicide bombers. Not many suicide bombers have de facto shrines at their gravesites, or markers lauding their deed. The fact that this is allowed says much.
Unless one is willing to completely blow off the Palestinians as meaningless (which neither the US nor Israel is willing to do), their impressions must be considered...and the Second Massacre had just as big an impact on them as the First has on Israeli citizens. Put bluntly, it was about as bad as they can imagine. The only thing worse would be an attempt to destroy the Haram-al-Sharif mosques...and that has been attempted too.
Disengagement makes sense, as anyone who's ever tried to break up a fight between members of two different groups knows. That's why President Bush has pushed so hard for it. While it's going to start in Gaza, if there ever was a place that needs it, it's Hebron. Keeping the most virulent members of both groups in each other's faces can only lead to continuing trouble.
Isaiah 14:29 is their day, it is the prelude to the complete destruction of the Arab Leagues holdings in the Land of Israel as God promised it. Read Isaiah 15-19. City after city after city gone, all in one evening. Damascus is included in the list. But then Damascus is inside the old borders of Israel.In other words, you support precisely what the Palestinian rejectionists support, only aimed in the opposite direction.
No, in other words, I read the Bible. It is what WILL happen after all the politicians make "peace".
What I support is Israels right to an independant State, without all the looser nations dictating how and why they can fart.
What I support is Israels right to an independant State, without all the looser nations dictating how and why they can fart.So the United States is a "looser nation"?
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