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Beware of Back-Door Gun Registration Scheme, Group Says
GOPUSA ^

Posted on 03/09/2005 6:07:17 AM PST by Happy2BMe

Beware of Back-Door Gun Registration Scheme, Group Says By Susan Jones CNSNews.com Morning Editor March 9, 2005

(CNSNews.com) -- Being on a terrorism watch list does not mean you really are a terrorist -- and therefore, your right to buy or own a gun should not be infringed, Second Amendment supporters say.

But FBI Director Robert Mueller, Sen. Frank Lautenberg (D-N.J.) and gun control groups disagree.

In testimony before Congress on Tuesday, Mueller said lawmakers "ought to look at what can be done" to prevent people on the government's terrorism watch list from buying guns.

His comments followed the release of a government report showing that more than 40 people included on a terrorism watch list were allowed to buy guns last year.

According to the audit by the Government Accountability Office, 35 people on the government's terrorist watch list legally bought guns in the United States between Feb. 3 and June 20, 2004. Twelve more people on the list were allowed to buy guns between July 1 and Oct. 31 of last year.

But none of those people had been charged with, or convicted of, any crime, said the Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms.

By law, convicted felons, illegal aliens and people declared mentally ill are not allowed to buy guns. Being included on a terrorism watch list may invite more scrutiny, but it does not automatically disqualify someone from legally buying a gun.

"How does somebody's name get on one of those lists? How is it removed?" asked CCRKBA Chairman Alan Gottlieb. The government does not discuss details of its terrorism watch list, which reportedly includes some 50,000 names.

But Sen. Frank Lautenberg believes anyone included on the government's terrorism watch list should be treated differently when it comes to gun purchases.

The New Jersey Democrat says he will introduce a bill requiring the National Instant Check System (NICS) to retain records of gun purchases by "watch-listed" people for at least ten years. Current law requires the FBI to destroy gun-purchase applications within 24 hours of approval.

But current law is "aiding and abetting terrorists," Lautenberg was quoted as saying on Tuesday. "Lots of times you can't uncover the data you need in 24 hours."

CCRKBA said Lautenberg is using the GAO report -- which he requested -- in an attempt to advance his gun control agenda.

"In Sen. Lautenberg's warped view, anyone who buys a gun is a suspected terrorist," said CCRKBA Chairman Alan Gottlieb. He believes Lautenberg is looking for a way to "justify a back-door gun registration scheme."

That way, if he ever gets his gun control bills through Congress, "he will know where to go to collect" all the guns, Gottlieb said.

According to CCRKBA, the GAO report shows that the NICS system works, but Sen. Lautenberg is trying to say it doesn't -- "so he can demand that we keep records on people who may have broken no laws."

CCRKBA said the American Civil Liberties Union would be in "hysterics" if Lautenberg's proposal to keep records on law-abiding Americans involved anything other than gun purchases.

CRKBA Executive Director Joe Waldron said no system is completely fool-proof: "Even if we adopted all of the gun controls Frank Lautenberg has ever advocated, we would only disarm honest citizens, not criminals or potential terrorists, and he knows it."

According to USA Today, the terrorism watch list officially is known as the Violent Gang and Terrorist Organization File, and it includes everyone from actual terrorist suspects to their relatives, neighbors and co-workers.


TOPICS: Extended News
KEYWORDS: aclu; banglist; constitution; guncontrol; secondamendmendment
"The New Jersey Democrat says he will introduce a bill requiring the National Instant Check System (NICS) to retain records of gun purchases by "watch-listed" people for at least ten years. Current law requires the FBI to destroy gun-purchase applications within 24 hours of approval."
1 posted on 03/09/2005 6:07:24 AM PST by Happy2BMe
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To: Happy2BMe
According to CCRKBA, the GAO report shows that the NICS system works, but Sen. Lautenberg is trying to say it doesn't -- "so he can demand that we keep records on people who may have broken no laws."

Anybody REALLY think this lists aren't already being kept in violation of the law
2 posted on 03/09/2005 6:10:41 AM PST by uncbob
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To: Conspiracy Guy; Quix; dennisw; SJackson; MeekOneGOP; TrueBeliever9; Geist Krieger; JohnHuang2; ...
'BACK DOOR' GUN REGISTRATION SCHEME - ping.

==============================================

Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

3 posted on 03/09/2005 6:13:25 AM PST by Happy2BMe (Government is not the solution to our problem, government *IS* the problem.)
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To: uncbob; SJackson; dennisw; Salem; F15Eagle; Boazo; Grampa Dave

In 1928, five years before the rise of Hitler, Germany's freely elected government enacted a "Law on Firearms and Ammunition." This law required anyone who owned a firearm, or who wanted to own a firearm, to make themselves known to the authorities. Anyone who wanted to purchase a firearm had to get a "Firearms Acquisition Permit." If you needed ammunition, you had to get an "Ammunition Acquisition Permit." When you wanted to go hunting, you had to get an "Annual Hunting Permit." Every firearm that changed hands professionally had to have a serial number and the maker's or dealers name stamped into the metal. "Proof of need" was made a condition for issuance of all licenses, not just the carry permit. Mandatory prison sentences were imposed on anyone who professionally sold or transferred a firearm or ammunition without a license. Truncheons and stabbing weapons were subject to the same licensing requirements as firearms, in terms of their manufacture and sale.

As a result of the 1928 Law, all firearms and firearms owners were registered! To take firearms from anyone they distrusted, the Nazis simply did not renew permits. Under the law, their privately created law, the Nazis could now easily confiscate all firearms and ammunition from any, or all, selected groups. The gun law of 1928 had served the Nazis well. It made almost all law abiding firearms owners known to the authorities. The 1928 law on firearms and ammunition helped the Nazis to destroy democracy in Germany, by disarming the law abiding majority, whom they feared.

---------------

"This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration!Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow us into the future" - Adolph Hitler, 1935

---------------

Adolph Hitler's Nazi Weapons Law of 1938 ,specifically outlawed firearms ownership, by Jews and Gypsies and anti-Nazi opposition successfully eliminating 13,000,000 of his foes.

---------------

4 posted on 03/09/2005 6:17:00 AM PST by Happy2BMe (Government is not the solution to our problem, government *IS* the problem.)
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To: Happy2BMe
Thanks...just added to Today's Toons 3/10/05.


5 posted on 03/09/2005 6:18:49 AM PST by pookie18 (Clinton Happens!)
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To: Happy2BMe

"This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration!Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow us into the future" - Adolph Hitler, 1935

I think that's a false quote.


6 posted on 03/09/2005 6:19:25 AM PST by OXENinFLA
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To: Joe Brower; neverdem; Conservative Goddess

ping...


7 posted on 03/09/2005 6:20:02 AM PST by OXENinFLA
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To: Happy2BMe

My first question: how do I know I'm on a watch list and how do I appeal if I am? YET....we let all sorts of scumbags cross our borders.....go figure....


8 posted on 03/09/2005 6:22:56 AM PST by NRA1995 ("Yew jes' go and lay yore hand on a Pittsburgh Steelers fan & Ah think yer gonna fin'lly understand")
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To: Happy2BMe
This thread has just added to the FreeRepublic "bang list" (firearms interest list) by adding the keyword "banglist".

Any time a firearms-related thread is created on FreeRepublic, please be sure to add the "banglist" keyword to it so that interested FReepers don't miss it.

Let Freedom Ring,

Gun Facts v4.0!

Click the pic to go to the Gun Facts v4.0 download page!

9 posted on 03/09/2005 6:23:27 AM PST by Joe Brower (The Constitution defines Conservatism.)
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To: Happy2BMe
A lesser known Gun Nut!



"If there's guns in the house, make sure some are yours."

Conspiracy Guy
10 posted on 03/09/2005 6:26:37 AM PST by Conspiracy Guy (Reading is fundamental. Comprehension is optional.)
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To: OXENinFLA

Regulations Against Jews' Possession of Weapons

11 November 1938

With a basis in §31 of the Weapons Law of 18 March 1938 (Reichsgesetzblatt I, p.265), Article III of the Law on the Reunification of Austria with Germany of 13 March 1938 (Reichsgesetzblatt I, p. 237), and §9 of the Führer and Chancellor's decree on the administration of the Sudeten-German districts of 1 October 1938 (Reichsgesetzblatt I, p 1331) are the following ordered:

§1
Jews (§5 of the First Regulations of the German Citizenship Law of 14 November 1935, Reichsgesetzblatt I, p. 1333) are prohibited from acquiring, possessing, and carrying firearms and ammunition, as well as truncheons or stabbing weapons.  Those now possessing weapons and ammunition are at once to turn them over to the local police authority.

§2
Firearms and ammunition found in a Jew's possession will be forfeited to the government without compensation.

§3
The Minister of the Interior may make exceptions to the Prohibition in §1 for Jews who are foreign nationals.  He can entrust other authorities with this power.

§4
Whoever willfully or negligently violates the provisions of §1 will be punished with imprisonment and a fine.  In especially severe cases of deliberate violations, the punishment is imprisonment in a penitentiary for up to five years.

§5
For the implementation of this regulation, the Minister of the Interior waives the necessary legal and administrative provisions.

§6
This regulation is valid in the state of Austria and in the Sudeten-German districts.

Berlin, 11 November 1938
Minister of the Interior
Frick

11 posted on 03/09/2005 6:28:31 AM PST by Happy2BMe (Government is not the solution to our problem, government *IS* the problem.)
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To: MOJOMAN

ping


12 posted on 03/09/2005 6:29:24 AM PST by Happy2BMe (Government is not the solution to our problem, government *IS* the problem.)
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To: Happy2BMe

http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcbogus.html


13 posted on 03/09/2005 6:30:29 AM PST by OXENinFLA
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To: OXENinFLA

OK, thanks.


14 posted on 03/09/2005 6:31:43 AM PST by Happy2BMe (Government is not the solution to our problem, government *IS* the problem.)
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To: Happy2BMe

I should have said falsely attributed to Adolf Hitler.


15 posted on 03/09/2005 6:32:08 AM PST by OXENinFLA
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To: OXENinFLA
Gun Control

We Need Government Control Not Gun Control

  "The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subject races to posses arms.  History shows that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by doing so." -Adolph Hitler 1938 

  The 1938 Nazi law barred Jews from businesses involving firearms. On November 10. 1938 -- one day after the Nazi party terror squads (the SS) savaged thousands of Jews,  synagogues and Jewish businesses throughout Germany -- new regulations under the Weapons Law specifically barred Jews from owning any weapons, even clubs or knives.
Gun Control's Nazi Connection

  We should NEVER forget that Lenin, the Communist Revolutionist, was an agent of the GERMAN government. What is not commonly known is that Stalin murdered nearly 6 million Jews during the World War II period, as did Hitler. 
Mind Control Techniques, U.S. Military Officers--Shackled by U.N. Forces

  One has only to learn what really happened to the Christians in Rwanda between April and July of 1994 to imagine what may lie in store for Christians here in America at some time in the not-too-distant future. After the Christian Tutsis had been disarmed by governmental decree in the early 1990s, Hutu-led military forces began to systematically massacre the defenseless Christians. The massacre began in April 1994 and continued until July 1994. Using machetes rather than bullets, the Hutu forces were able to create a state of abject fear and terror within the helpless Christian population as they systematically butchered hundreds of thousands of them. The Population Control Agenda

  Several elements of historical and operational continuity between the development of fascism prior to World War II and its resurgence over the last several decades. Comparing American scientific racism of the 1920s and 30s with current thinkers of that school... the profound influence of the American social legislation spawned by that racism on the Nazi racial laws that were the pretext for the Third Reich's extermination programs... the American 'prosecutorial' staff at Nuremberg who helped to exonerate numerous Nazi war criminals and who subsequently participated in the cover-up of President Kennedy's assassination... a possible fascist connection to the gun-control movement (Note: It is indeed curious that the American Psychiatric Association initially contained over 2,000 German 'immigrant' members following World War II. The APA also was/is involved in GUN CONTROL lobbying.- Branton), as well as a possible connection between that movement and the assassination of President Kennedy... the resurgence of Fascism in Italy and Germany stemming from the fascist elements left in place in these countries as a result of the laxness of individuals such as the American Nuremberg staffers. (Additional Note on the above - From the www.buildfreedom.com website we read: "A principle player in the 1974 foundings of both HCI [then called the National Council to Control Handguns] and the NCBH [National Coalition to Ban Handguns, now renamed the Coalition Against Gun Violence] was Ed Wells, who was A 25-YEAR VETERAN OF THE COVERT OPERATIONS DIVISION OF THE CIA... There was also a fund raiser for NCBH hosted by the man Nixon appointed as CIA Director, William Colby... HCI spokesman Greg Risch -- incredibly -- admitted that "SURE THERE ARE A LOT OF CIA PEOPLE IN IT [HCI]", and also stated that there are quite a few "EX-CIA WHO DONATE TO US."  David Emory's Talk Radio (On NAZIs)

  "Waiting periods are only a step. Registration is only a step. The prohibition of private firearms
is the goal"--(Janet Reno)

 

Here's a question for anti-gun people:

"Would you be willing to put a sticker on your car window or the front door
of your house saying 'I am an anti-gun person--there are no guns in this
[car/house]'"


16 posted on 03/09/2005 6:32:43 AM PST by Happy2BMe (Government is not the solution to our problem, government *IS* the problem.)
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To: Happy2BMe
But Sen. Frank Lautenberg believes anyone included on the government's terrorism watch list should be treated differently when it comes to gun purchases.

I wonder if Senator Laughingstock believes that anyone included on this watch list should be treated differently when it comes to applications for financial aid, or when it comes to admission to colleges, or when it comes to buying and registering a motor vehicle, or when it comes to getting a driver's license. (Probably not, eh.)

17 posted on 03/09/2005 6:36:52 AM PST by VRWCmember
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To: Happy2BMe
<> The Laut wants to introduce gun control registration in the guise of fighting terrorism. A clever tactic. What it basically comes to is whether the government trusts its own citizens. The gun banners say they must be vigilantly watched. Of course the true enemies of thse United States would never punctiliously obey a law designed to deter them from illegal acts. Quick question for The Laut and his comrades: how many laws did Mohammed Atta and his fellow terrorists break on 9/11? Mind you, they didn't even have guns to hijack the planes - gun control laws were next to useless in stopping them from committing their terrorist mayhem!

(Denny Crane: "Sometimes you can only look for answers from God and failing that... and Fox News".)
18 posted on 03/09/2005 6:37:42 AM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: Happy2BMe

I wonder, are those on the watch list allowed to ride buses, trains, and especially aircraft? Are they allowed to buy boxcutters and fertilizer? Wouldn't it be easier to just deport them?


19 posted on 03/09/2005 6:38:48 AM PST by wingnut1971
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To: NRA1995
My first question: how do I know I'm on a watch list and how do I appeal if I am? YET....we let all sorts of scumbags cross our borders.....go figure...

It is my understanding that the gum't can get a tip about someone. Thegum't guys then go into the home of the alleged whatever, snoop around, and leave, without bothering to say they came by to visit. They can leave surveillance devices in your home and on your cars (in addition to the ones the auto makers are installing for them), and if they wish, they can even wisk you away to a secret location, and hold you, without an attorney, for an unspecified period of time. Did I miss anything in my understanding?

We live in a Brave New World!

1

A SQUAT grey building of only thirty-four stories. Over the main entrance the words, CENTRAL LONDON HATCHERY AND CONDITIONING CENTRE, and, in a shield, the World State's motto, COMMUNITY, IDENTITY, STABILITY.

The enormous room on the ground floor faced towards the north. Cold for all the summer beyond the panes, for all the tropical heat of the room itself, a harsh thin light glared through the windows, hungrily seeking some draped lay figure, some pallid shape of academic goose-flesh, but finding only the glass and nickel and bleakly shining porcelain of a laboratory. Wintriness responded to wintriness. The overalls of the workers were white, their hands gloved with a pale corpse-coloured rubber. The light was frozen, dead, a ghost. Only from the yellow barrels of the microscopes did it borrow a certain rich and living substance, lying along the polished tubes like butter, streak after luscious streak in long recession down the work tables.

"And this," said the Director opening the door, "is the Fertilizing Room." ...

"We don't need no thougth control..."


20 posted on 03/09/2005 6:41:26 AM PST by pageonetoo (You'll spot their posts soon enough!)
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To: pageonetoo

Credit owed to Aldous Huxley, and Roger Waters...


21 posted on 03/09/2005 6:46:20 AM PST by pageonetoo (You'll spot their posts soon enough!)
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To: Happy2BMe

Thanks for the ping!


22 posted on 03/09/2005 6:51:03 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: wingnut1971

Even more to the point, are any of them pilots or have access to terrorist weapons like airplanes and Rider trucks? Shouldn't they be excluded from those activities before asking for their guns?


23 posted on 03/09/2005 6:51:14 AM PST by Arkie2
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To: Happy2BMe; OXENinFLA
Hi All-

"...This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration! Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow us into the future - Adolph Hitler, 1935..."


The statement attributed to Adolf Hitler is absolutely FALSE and was never made. Firearms enthusiasts must stop spreading this incorrect story. Why this fictional quote is seen over, and over, and over is beyond me.

The people who are really knowledgeable about this vile murderous maniac and his attitudes towards firearms can be visited at Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership for a complete and thorough background.

~ Blue Jays ~

24 posted on 03/09/2005 6:54:15 AM PST by Blue Jays (Rock Hard, Ride Free)
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To: Blue Jays; OXENinFLA
OK, thanks.

However, the same precedent used in 1938 bears a striking resemblence to the one used in 2005.

It's still gun control that is not in favor of the private citizen and still will not prevent or delay terrorists from obtaining weapons.

25 posted on 03/09/2005 6:58:22 AM PST by Happy2BMe (Government is not the solution to our problem, government *IS* the problem.)
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To: Happy2BMe
Context is everything. Remember when Bill Clinton was president, Janet Reno was AG, Morris Dees and the SPLC were directing public policy and the NRA was considered by many in positions of power to be a "seditious" organization?

Remember when Rush Limbaugh was blamed for the Oklahoma City bombing? Remember when the term "patriot" was used by the left as a slur akin to "potential terrorist"?

This is a far more complicated issue than it may seem. A change in the political wind could put a lot of polifical dissenters of all stripes on the watch list.

26 posted on 03/09/2005 7:19:58 AM PST by Kenton ("Life is tough, and it's really tough when you're stupid" - Damon Runyon)
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To: Happy2BMe

bump


27 posted on 03/09/2005 7:22:27 AM PST by kimosabe31
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To: Kenton
Watch lists are as safe as the people who keep them.

Do you trust the government to do this? What is the government changes to a new regime you don't like. What then?

28 posted on 03/09/2005 7:30:44 AM PST by Happy2BMe (Government is not the solution to our problem, government *IS* the problem.)
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To: OXENinFLA

Thanks for the ping!

De Facto registration .......precisely why I don't have a carry permit. I find my grant of authority in the 2nd Amendment.


29 posted on 03/09/2005 7:38:17 AM PST by Conservative Goddess (Veritas vos Liberabit, in Vino, Veritas....QED, Vino vos Liberabit)
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To: Conservative Goddess
De Facto registration .......precisely why I don't have a carry permit. I find my grant of authority in the 2nd Amendment.

Well Said!

30 posted on 03/09/2005 7:44:12 AM PST by Fiddlstix (This Tagline for sale. (Presented by TagLines R US))
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To: uncbob

Exactly. The records are kept, so in effect we already have registration.


31 posted on 03/09/2005 8:32:31 AM PST by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: OXENinFLA

Did Hitler ban gun ownership?
....see below.
http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mhitlergun.html


32 posted on 03/09/2005 8:46:55 AM PST by Smartaleck
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To: Happy2BMe
Mueller said lawmakers "ought to look at what can be done" to prevent people on the government's terrorism watch list from buying guns

Well, if there's enough information that they are terrorists, they should be in jail, where they won't be buying any guns. If not, and they are citizens, then leave them the FReep alone, in full Passion of their rights. If they are foreigners, deport them, since that takes a whole lot less evidence than convicting someone in a court of law.

33 posted on 03/09/2005 9:09:57 AM PST by El Gato (Activist Judges can twist the Constitution into anything they want ... or so they think.)
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To: Blue Jays; Happy2BMe; OXENinFLA; Smartaleck

Thanks for that info, on the false quote.
How about this one below, by Himmler; do you know if this is a verifiable and true quote?

"Germans who wish to use firearms should join the SS or the SA - ordinary citizens don't need guns, as their having guns doesn't serve the State." -–Heinrich Himmler


34 posted on 03/09/2005 9:17:24 AM PST by FBD ("A nation without borders is not a nation." -- Ronald Reagan)
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To: Happy2BMe

Here is what Hitler really said:

"The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subject races to possess arms. History shows that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by doing so." (Adolph Hitler)


35 posted on 03/09/2005 9:24:21 AM PST by FBD ("A nation without borders is not a nation." -- Ronald Reagan)
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To: FBD; Blue Jays; Happy2BMe; OXENinFLA; Smartaleck
#34 and #35.

Thanks for clearing that up FBD. I don't need a link for it - I know they said (and did) it.

36 posted on 03/09/2005 10:12:42 AM PST by Happy2BMe (Government is not the solution to our problem, government *IS* the problem.)
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To: El Gato; FBD
We both know the government doesn't need to 'register' citizens to protect them.

If the government was serious about the protection of Americans from terrorism and foreign enemies, they would close the Mexican border.

37 posted on 03/09/2005 10:14:51 AM PST by Happy2BMe (Government is not the solution to our problem, government *IS* the problem.)
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To: FBD

I believe that quote is legit.


38 posted on 03/09/2005 10:43:21 AM PST by coloradan (Hence, etc.)
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To: Happy2BMe
Hi All-

You're not kidding about our porous Mexican border...it's absolutely absurd down there. Who knows who is streaming across on a daily basis. My personal preference is to run two parallel fences along the border 400 meters apart. The ground between the two fences would be filled with landmines.

Large, illuminated, bright, reflective, black-on-yellow, multi-lingual signs could be placed at quarter-mile intervals:

*** ATTENTION / DANGER ***

You are approaching the border of the United States of America. The fenced area contains landmines which will result in death when triggered. For your safety, use authorized border crossing areas only.

We would still welcome properly-documented visitors, but they would need to cross at appropriate areas. Illegal aliens would only need to see two or three of their countrymen blown to smithereens before they got the point that the fenced territory must be honored. At the same time, the fences would prevent hikers, animals, and other innocents from accidentally being killed.

Use of this technique would drastically cut the costs associated with maintaining our southern border. Dangerous night patrols wouldn't be as critical since sensors could simply advise a central station that a fence had been crossed...then it is a matter of replacing the spent landmine. People would be fairly warned, so I think the number of lives saved (compared to casualties from starvation, thirst, bandits, etc.) would be greatly reduced. Just tell me if I'm being totally cold-hearted here.

~ Blue Jays ~

p.s. Sorry for the slight thread hijacking... Those foreign visitors coming to our country through the authorized points of entry should NOT be allowed to bring firearms either...unless they're specifically going on a hunting vacation or entering a shooting competition.

39 posted on 03/09/2005 11:18:36 AM PST by Blue Jays (Rock Hard, Ride Free)
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To: Blue Jays
It's a mess. I just don't want the government to use the war on terrorism as a premise to rob Americans of their Second Amendment rights.

Much stranger things have happened.

(My tagline.)

40 posted on 03/09/2005 11:23:06 AM PST by Happy2BMe (Government is not the solution to our problem, government *IS* the problem.)
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To: coloradan

thanks. I was pretty sure it was.


41 posted on 03/09/2005 11:41:33 AM PST by FBD ("A nation without borders is not a nation." -- Ronald Reagan)
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To: OXENinFLA

"This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration!Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow us into the future"-Adolph Hitler 1935 'Berlin Daily' (Loose English Translation) April 15th, 1935 Page 3 Article 2 by Einleitung Von Eberhard Beckmann - "Abschied vom Hessenland!"


42 posted on 03/09/2005 4:27:06 PM PST by Camel Joe (Proud Uncle of a Fine Young Marine)
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