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Judge says DCF can't intervene in Terri Schiavo case
Associated Press ^ | March 10, 2005 | Mitch Stacy

Posted on 03/10/2005 12:22:56 PM PST by amdgmary

TAMPA, Fla. (AP) -- A judge ruled Thursday that the state's social services agency cannot delay the removal of the feeding tube keeping brain-damaged Terri Schiavo alive.

The Department of Children & Families had asked for a 60-day delay in the removal of the feeding tube, now scheduled March 18. The agency said it wanted time to investigate allegations of abuse and neglect by the woman's husband, Michael Schiavo.

But Circuit Judge George W. Greer ruled that the agency's attempt to get involved at this point was inappropriate and "appears to be brought for the purpose of circumventing the court's final judgment ... in violation of the separation of powers doctrine."

Michael Schiavo's attorney had criticized the last-minute attempt by DCF to get involved, saying that it was engineered by Gov. Jeb Bush and others in the state government who support the plight of her parents who are trying to keep her alive.

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Michael Schiavo has gotten a court order to remove the feeding tube, contending that his wife told him she wouldn't want to be kept alive artificially. A 1990 heart attack cut off oxygen to her brain for five minutes, leaving her in what the court has ruled is a vegetative state with no consciousness. She breathes on her own but depends on a tube in her abdomen for food and water.

But her parents doubt she had those end-of-life wishes and are trying to block removal of the feeding tube.

The judge's ruling was another major blow to Bob and Mary Schindler, who have fought their son-in-law in court for nearly seven years over their daughter's fate. They dispute that she is in a persistent vegetative state, saying she laughs, cries, interacts with them and tries to speak when they visit her at her hospice.

The DCF said it wanted to investigate accusations against Miachel Schiavo - who is her legal guaridan - that included denying his wife some medical treatment and therapy, isolating her in her room with the blinds closed, failing to fix her broken wheelchair and failing to file timely guardianship plans.

In his order, Greer noted that those and many other allegations have been investigated in the past and failed to yield any evidence of abuse and neglect by Michael Schiavo.

Other than trying to appeal judge's decisions that have gone against them this week, the Schindlers will look again to the state Legislature and perhaps the U.S. Congress for help. Both bodies have bills in the works that lawmakers say could save Terri Schiavo's life.

In Tallahassee Wednesday, a House committee approved a bill requiring doctors to provide nutrition and hydration to incapacitated patients who didn't leave an advance directive. It still needs approval from two more committees before facing the full House.

Bush, who has said he would do anything within his power to save Terri Schiavo, supports the bill.

The governor in October 2003 pushed a law through the Legislature authorizing him to resume the woman's artificial feedings six days after the court stopped them. The law subsequently was ruled unconstitutional by the state Supreme Court.

On Tuesday, U.S. Rep. Dave Weldon and U.S. Sen. Mel Martinez, both Florida Republicans, introduced legislation in Washington that could give the Schindlers access to federal courts in the effort to save their daughter's life. Their bill requires that incapacitated people who don't leave advance directives have attorneys appointed to give the case a full review before artificial life support is terminated.


TOPICS: Front Page News; News/Current Events; US: Florida
KEYWORDS: dcf; euthanasia; florida; georgefelos; govjebbush; greermurderer; judgegeorgegreer; michaelschiavo; nocerebralcortex; pureevil; satanslittlehelpers; schiavo; schiavodcf; schiavomedical; sicsempertyranis; terrischiavo
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1 posted on 03/10/2005 12:22:57 PM PST by amdgmary
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To: amdgmary

They're HELL-bent on MURDERING TERRY BTTT!


2 posted on 03/10/2005 12:24:05 PM PST by ApesForEvolution (I just took a Muhammad and wiped my Jihadist with Mein Koran...come and get me nutbags.)
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To: Ohioan from Florida

Terri Ping!!


3 posted on 03/10/2005 12:24:27 PM PST by Jersey Republican Biker Chick (Never play leapfrog with a unicorn!)
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To: All; floriduh voter; Scoop 1; phenn; pc93; Ohioan from Florida; cyn; tutstar; Republic; ...

Ping. Judge Greer strikes again.


4 posted on 03/10/2005 12:25:23 PM PST by amdgmary (Please visit www.terrisfight.org & www.theempirejournal.com)
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To: amdgmary

UN-EFFIN-believable


5 posted on 03/10/2005 12:26:24 PM PST by tiredoflaundry (My quaker parrot can talk, can Your honor student fly?)
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To: amdgmary

Judge Greer has got to go!! Something has to be done before it is too late to save Terri. If the Legislature takes too long poor Terri will not live to see her law enacted.


6 posted on 03/10/2005 12:26:41 PM PST by Jersey Republican Biker Chick (Never play leapfrog with a unicorn!)
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To: amdgmary

Fasten your seat belts . . .

No way DCF is going to let Greer kill Terri while serious allegations of abuse/neglect/exploitation go unanswered.

No way!!! Only one solution: PROTECTIVE CUSTODY!!


7 posted on 03/10/2005 12:26:44 PM PST by Saundra Duffy (Save Terri Schiavo!!!)
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To: amdgmary
appears to be brought for the purpose of circumventing the court's final judgment ... in violation of the separation of powers doctrine

Did he channel this from some ancient spirit, or is he just divine, and omniscient in his observations?

Mr. Greer is apparently afflicted with delusions of grandeur: he thinks he's God.

8 posted on 03/10/2005 12:27:21 PM PST by Regulator
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To: amdgmary
Their bill requires that incapacitated people who don't leave advance directives have attorneys appointed to give the case a full review before artificial life support is terminated.

If the same judge does the appointing, I am not sure this would be a big help to Terri. Still praying for miracles here. Hope DCF goes for protective custody - and SOON.

9 posted on 03/10/2005 12:29:29 PM PST by knittnmom
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To: All

Man! Can't something be done about this judge? Who's over him, and WHY is he doing ALL the rulings????


10 posted on 03/10/2005 12:30:42 PM PST by jackibutterfly
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To: amdgmary

This judge is on some kind of mission.


11 posted on 03/10/2005 12:30:46 PM PST by mlc9852
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To: amdgmary

Jeb needs to let the judge know if he gets away with this legally that he will be arrested for first degree murder.


12 posted on 03/10/2005 12:32:40 PM PST by microgood
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To: Saundra Duffy
The solution to this has always been in the Florida legislature. Not endless motions and appeals. Not last minute interventions by state agencies.

In the legislature.

They wrote the law. They can change it.

13 posted on 03/10/2005 12:32:58 PM PST by Dog Gone
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To: Saundra Duffy

I hope DCFS take Terri into protective custody right now! We need to pray that they do! God I hope they do and pray they do take her into custody! Unbelieveable!!!!!!!!!!!


14 posted on 03/10/2005 12:33:48 PM PST by Halls
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To: Dog Gone

Exactly.


15 posted on 03/10/2005 12:35:03 PM PST by Area51 (Illegal Immigration: 20 Million Mexicans can't be wrong.)
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To: Regulator

re: delusions of grandeur

Having followed this case pretty closely for these many years and watched this moron at work I'm convinced it's more a matter of delusions of adequacy! I'll be if you looked back in this judge's high school yearbook the caption under his photo would read "Seldom right, but NEVER in doubt." I pray for this lady and her family, all they have ever wanted for her was an honest shot at rehab for her. If there was ever a case of neglect, this is it. She went for years without even having her teeth brushed. The husband denied her physical therapy at even the most minimal level. This man (these men?) want Terri dead way too badly.


16 posted on 03/10/2005 12:38:46 PM PST by jwpjr
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To: amdgmary

Why is this judge still on the bench?


17 posted on 03/10/2005 12:39:15 PM PST by shekkian
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To: amdgmary

"appears to be brought for the purpose of circumventing the court's final judgment ... in violation of the separation of powers doctrine."


Greer, you criminally incompetent moron. Of course it is to circumvent your assinine ruling. However, instead violating the "separation of powers" it actually affirms them. If Governor Bush lets this Bozo get away with this, judical tyranny will rule forever in Florida. Terri has become the Dred Scott of Florida.


18 posted on 03/10/2005 12:39:25 PM PST by Sola Veritas (Trying to speak truth - not always with the best grammar or spelling)
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To: 80 Square Miles
Their bill requires that incapacitated people who don't leave advance directives have attorneys appointed to give the case a full review before artificial life support is terminated.

What "artificial life support" is Terri on, other than a food tube? I am scared I know what the answer is.

19 posted on 03/10/2005 12:40:32 PM PST by Fudd (Never confuse a liberal with facts.)
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To: Dog Gone

they also wrote the law that added feeding tubes as "artificial means" and that is the law that gave the Judges the power to order her death...they need to repeal that law!


20 posted on 03/10/2005 12:43:08 PM PST by ruoflaw
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To: amdgmary
"appears to be brought for the purpose of circumventing the court's final judgment ... in violation of the separation of powers doctrine."

When does appearing before the court constitute circumventing it? If it does, thousands of lawyers are circumventing courts this very moment!
21 posted on 03/10/2005 12:46:57 PM PST by The Great Yazoo (The husbands of the talkative have a great reward hereafter.)
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To: ApesForEvolution
But Circuit Judge George W. Greer ruled that the agency's attempt to get involved at this point was inappropriate and "appears to be brought for the purpose of circumventing the court's final judgment ... in violation of the separation of powers doctrine."

Greer: "They are trying to seperate me from my powers. I said the bitch is gonna DIE and I meant it. NO ONE WILL STOP ME."

Michael Schiavo's attorney had criticized the last-minute attempt by DCF to get involved, saying that it was engineered by Gov. Jeb Bush and others in the state government who support the plight of her parents who are trying to keep her FROM BEING MURDERED.

22 posted on 03/10/2005 12:48:07 PM PST by UCANSEE2
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To: Dog Gone
They wrote the law. They can change it.

It also states the person has to be PVS. There have been advances in testing but Greer will not allow new tests. The question is, why?

23 posted on 03/10/2005 12:49:14 PM PST by DJ MacWoW (Life support. canned, frozen or fresh, it's good for you!)
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To: mlc9852

I consider this judge to be the personification of evil. More so than the "husband".

Why? Because however wrong and bad, the husband-in-name only has an active and personal motivation. Greer's motive is trivial and impersonal.


24 posted on 03/10/2005 12:50:58 PM PST by From many - one.
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To: jackibutterfly
I don't know why it isn't obvious. Check all the connections between The Attorney General, the Judge, the Hospice, the donations to his campaign, his lack of filing proper papers to become a judge, his blatant ignoring of evidence which counters the judgement he made years ago.

He set the proposals up so Terri could never win.

Basically, unless someone came up with a treatment that would REVERSE HER BRAIN DAMAGE (which, appears impossible), THEN SHE MUST DIE. That is the bottom line, you can read it for yourself in the judge's abstract.

It is NOT OK if she exists at the current level. He had determined she is NOT AWARE, even though everyone who has no benefit from her death says she is.

Michael is being supported by ORGANIZED CRIME in Florida. There, I said it. Check for yourself. See why the doctor who originally signed the DEATH WARRANT for TERRI, is a DR. GAMBONE.

25 posted on 03/10/2005 12:53:27 PM PST by UCANSEE2
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To: amdgmary

Count-down to murder.


26 posted on 03/10/2005 12:54:03 PM PST by Old Professer (A man's conscience is like his garden, it is his and his alone to tend.)
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To: All

I am correct in understanding that all Greer can do is refuse to delay execution day.

He can't stop the DCF from investigating.


27 posted on 03/10/2005 12:54:39 PM PST by Madeleine Ward
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To: ruoflaw
Despite the savaging that Judge Greer takes here every day on every thread related to Terri, he basically is following the law as it is written. While it's certainly possible to dispute his finding of fact that Terri is in a vegetative state, there was no shortage of doctors testifying that she is. Ultimately he was the finder of fact on that issue and now he is applying the current Florida law as it is written.

The problem isn't the judge; it's the law and always has been. It's completely and easily fixable.

28 posted on 03/10/2005 12:55:16 PM PST by Dog Gone
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To: From many - one.

JINO Greer + HINO Schiavo = MURDERERS x 2

Despicable pieces of satanic excrement. May they get no peace or happiness in this life and may they both burn in hell in the next.


29 posted on 03/10/2005 12:56:07 PM PST by Polyxene (For where God built a church, there the Devil would also build a chapel - Martin Luther)
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To: Old Professer

Yes


30 posted on 03/10/2005 12:56:27 PM PST by ruoflaw
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To: amdgmary

the judge will be removed in a straight-jacket, I think.


31 posted on 03/10/2005 12:57:39 PM PST by the invisib1e hand ("remember, from ashes you came, to ashes you will return.")
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To: Dog Gone

I believed that Terri's Law was legal


32 posted on 03/10/2005 12:58:48 PM PST by ruoflaw
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To: amdgmary

I can not even begin to grasp what kind of pain Terri's parents must be going through.

Michael Schiavo......I challenge you to a duel you POS MF!!!!!!!!!

I want to be the one who stamps your ticket straight to hell!!!!!!!

(No penguin for this post)


33 posted on 03/10/2005 1:00:38 PM PST by Niteranger68 ("I am not a conservative because I am successful; I am successful because I am a conservative.")
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To: All

State Attorney should have Greer, Schiavo, and Felos arrested for attempted murder.

Cuz thats what it is.


34 posted on 03/10/2005 1:00:43 PM PST by Stopislamnow (Islam sucks.)
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To: amdgmary

WOW! This SOB is set on his way...IN OTHER WORDS he's flipping you all the bird down in FL!! What say you?!!


35 posted on 03/10/2005 1:02:35 PM PST by RoseofTexas
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To: Madeleine Ward
I am correct in understanding that all Greer can do is refuse to delay execution day.

He can't stop the DCF from investigating.

Terri's body is part of the investigation. Greer has ordered, at Schiavos insistence, that she'll be cremated immediately after her death. No funeral. That will effectively stop the investigation.

36 posted on 03/10/2005 1:04:36 PM PST by DJ MacWoW (Life support. canned, frozen or fresh, it's good for you!)
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To: amdgmary

" Michael Schiavo has gotten a court order to remove the feeding tube, contending that his wife told him she wouldn't want to be kept alive artificially ."

Assuming that Terri, at some point, did say- " Oh, I never want to be hooked up to machines."
Which is a common sentiment expressed by young people, without illness, who have no concept of what it means to fight for one's life.
How can the husband and Judge Greer know that Terri did not change her mind or never really believed that sentiment, but, just said it to go along with the crowd ?
If Terri really believed that she would not want to live unless she was supported by machines ( and a feeding tube is not a machine ) she would have signed a Living Will.
If Terri was completely non responsive-flat EEG,no response to pain or any stimuli, unable to breathe on her own- she would be in a vegetative or comatose state.
From the videos I have seen, poor Terri looks no different than many brain damaged children, stroke victims and patients suffering severe brain trauma .
Perhaps the Judge should visit some rehab facilities and see first hand what can be accomplished with dysphagia therapy and PT.
Is Schiavo also claiming that Terri said she wouldn't want to have rehabilitative therapy ?
If seems that if only Terri could swallow, the husband and Judge would be thwarted.
The Schaivo case is like watching a slow mo snuff film , with the blessings and assistance of the court.


37 posted on 03/10/2005 1:06:20 PM PST by Wild Irish Rogue
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To: RacerF150

I must say, if I were Terri's parents I would kill her husband. I would shoot the SOB and take my chances in hell and prison but by God, I would see him dead first!!


38 posted on 03/10/2005 1:07:33 PM PST by 4everontheRight ( "I'm learning to dread one day at a time" --- Charlie Brown)
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To: UCANSEE2

No, I know the whole story - I just can't figure out how this judge can get away with this. Is there NO accountability??? This judge can do whatever he wants?? In America??? This is horrifying; sickening! Someone has to be able to stop him. What do we do???


39 posted on 03/10/2005 1:07:53 PM PST by jackibutterfly
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To: DJ MacWoW

anybody know where this goes from here?


40 posted on 03/10/2005 1:08:41 PM PST by pollywog (Psalm 121;1 I Lift my eyes to the hills from whence cometh my help.)
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To: ruoflaw
I believed that Terri's Law was legal

I hoped it was legal, but I didn't think it was. And if I didn't think it was, I was certain that the Florida courts would take an even dimmer view of it. So that ruling came as no surprise to me, or the overwhelming number of legal commentators who opined on it at the time.

I don't know what possessed the Florida legislature to attack the problem in that manner. Surely they have legal counsel who could warned them that this probably wouldn't fly.

All they have to do is eliminate artificial feeding and hydration from the applicable code. Clearly constitutional. Case over.

41 posted on 03/10/2005 1:09:54 PM PST by Dog Gone
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To: Dog Gone

No, Dog Gone - The problem IS the judge. WHY is HE the ONLY one who can make ALL the rulings, and WHY does he strike down ALL motions (and they're reasonable) by the parents??? Why won't he allow tests, why is Terri in a hospice (of which he has connections), why does he not recuse himself, why does he allow Michael to be her guardian, etc, etc. It's so in-your-face, and blatant that he's going to do whatever HE wants. This is so unbelievable!


42 posted on 03/10/2005 1:12:03 PM PST by jackibutterfly
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To: Wild Irish Rogue
What I don't understand is, why should a verbal statement that may or may not have taken place, be the concrete for which this case stands?? Whose to say Terri made this statement? Obviously her husband is a lying scumbag....why should his word be taken as gospel?

I sure would hate to be Michael Schiavo on Judgment Day. Man! That one is gonna sting!
43 posted on 03/10/2005 1:12:23 PM PST by 4everontheRight ( "I'm learning to dread one day at a time" --- Charlie Brown)
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To: Wild Irish Rogue
Assuming that Terri, at some point, did say- " Oh, I never want to be hooked up to machines."

Also consider that in 1990, a feeding tube was not classed the same as a ventilator or respirator. It was only included, in Florida, in 1999.

If seems that if only Terri could swallow, the husband and Judge would be thwarted.

Judge Greer won't take that chance. He's ruled twice that Terri is not to be fed by mouth.

44 posted on 03/10/2005 1:14:02 PM PST by DJ MacWoW (Life support. canned, frozen or fresh, it's good for you!)
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To: pollywog
anybody know where this goes from here?

DCF has not yet said what they'll do.

45 posted on 03/10/2005 1:14:58 PM PST by DJ MacWoW (Life support. canned, frozen or fresh, it's good for you!)
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To: Dog Gone

>The problem isn't the judge; it's the law and always has been. It's completely and easily fixable.<

Let's hope the Florida legislature gets off its collective duff and fixes it.


46 posted on 03/10/2005 1:17:38 PM PST by Darnright (No matter how sick a person is, he is and will always be a man, never becoming a vegetable or animal)
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To: Dog Gone
"Despite the savaging that Judge Greer takes here every day on every thread related to Terri, he basically is following the law as it is written."

And he is NOT following the law as it is written. The law states that the person must be PVS (which means no response at all) for the guardian to have the feeding tube removed. Greer has ruled that Terri is PVS, even despite the evidence (which he refuses to look at or dismisses) to the contrary. He even REFUSES to let her have additional tests - why?? Where is the harm? And he has never been to see her to find out for himself what her condition is. AND, to top it off, he won't allow ANY videos or pictures to be taken of Terri - which would prove that she isn't PVS. What the He!! is he doing???? And you say WE are savaging HIM? He's an absolute monster and deserves to be "savaged"!

47 posted on 03/10/2005 1:19:49 PM PST by jackibutterfly
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To: Dog Gone

What about her husband not filing proper paperwork as far as bieng her guardian? I'm not sure of the details but that's what I've read. And he has reversed his decisions several times so I don't see how he's following the law.


48 posted on 03/10/2005 1:21:02 PM PST by mlc9852
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To: 4everontheRight

I'd easily got to jail for my kids if their life was hanging on the balance and I could do something about it, but that is just me!


49 posted on 03/10/2005 1:21:40 PM PST by Halls
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To: pollywog

I have no idea. If DCFS doesn't take Terri into protective custody I fear Terri will die sometime in the next couple weeks.


50 posted on 03/10/2005 1:22:33 PM PST by Halls
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