Posted on 03/10/2005 10:44:32 PM PST by BurbankKarl
Dan Gillespie never thought he'd have to look so hard for work.
When the Seattle-area resident left the Air Force in 1980, he earned a computer science degree and enjoyed 20 years of steady work. He saved enough money to buy his wife's childhood home last year.
Three months later, he was laid off.
Gillespie, 53, hasn't found a job since. Even the corner store won't hire him. He and his wife sold the house last month.
"The computer jobs are gone," he said. "So what's next? We can't all move into gene splicing."
Long-term unemployment, defined as joblessness for six months or more, is at record rates. But there's an additional twist: An unusually large share of those chronically out of work are, like Gillespie, college graduates.
The increasing inability of educated workers to quickly return to the workforce reflects dramatic shifts in the economy, experts say. Even as overall hiring is picking up and economic growth remains strong, industries are transforming at a rapid pace as they adjust to intense competition, technological change and other pressures.
That means skilled jobs can quickly become obsolete, while others are outsourced. Educated workers are increasingly subject to the job insecurities and disruptions usually plaguing blue-collar laborers, but various factors make it even harder for some educated workers to get back into the workforce quickly. Though a college education is still one of a worker's best assets, it's no guarantee that a worker's skills will match demands of a shifting job market.
The number of long-term unemployed who are college graduates has nearly tripled since the bursting of the tech bubble in 2000, statistics show. Nearly 1 in 5 of the long-term jobless are college graduates.
(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...
ping
The American nightmare.
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Or perhaps the American way and American prosperity.
"Even the corner store won't hire him."
I don't know about that statement. He probably just doesn't want to work for what a store would offer. Can't really blame him, but to say he couldn't get a job at a store, doesn't sound right.
I know an older guy who got laid off and went to truck driving school. He makes good/decent money now. Bartenders also make decent bucks compared to working at a convenience store. Even buying a bunch of lawn mowers and hiring a bunch of unskilled laborers to start a lawn service might work. I would imaging a person just needs to think outside the box to get by in a pinch.
So then the older folks -- except those who are extremely talented -- move into the service industry.
Good point. Let's hope and pray this family comes back better than before, in true American style. Nevertheless, the childhood home is gone.
<><
Here's Dan's letter to the Seatlle Times
Monday, September 13, 2004, 12:00 A.M.
Letters to the editor
Work cut out for us
Continue shipping jobs to other countries or turn the boat around
Editor, The Times:
I take exception to Collin Levey's "Kerry's coercive economic patriotism threat to U.S. firms, global prosperity" (Times guest column, Sept. 9), regarding John Kerry's plans to bring jobs back to America.
Levey supports sending our jobs overseas for the sake of corporate profits. However, here are some facts that I would like to remind her of: 2 million lost jobs. George Bush is the first president since Herbert Hoover not to have created a single job during his first term. Here's an example close to home: Microsoft employs 2,000 workers in India.
I am a programmer/analyst, and I've been out of work for six months. And I'm not alone. It's clear what they think of us when an assistant to Bush campaign spokesman Terry Holt offered, "Why don't they get new jobs if they're unhappy — or go on Prozac" (overheard by a Reuters news service reporter). Just another punch in the gut for American workers from Bush-Cheney.
I think we need to change the direction of this boat before it sinks.
— Dan Gillespie, Tacoma
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/text/2002033730_monlets13.html
The "service industry"....such as greeter at WalMart? Yikes!
P.S. You may have to get yourself some new friends and lovers, kiddo!
<><
Greeter, taxi driver, waiter, etc.
(My friends and lovers suit me, since I am always alarming and rarely charming).
Without "corporate profits" how does a company survive? On "corporate losses"?
This is a typical liberal news article; big on anecdote, but short on facts. What kind of degree did he have? What field was he working in, and how much actual experience did he possess? Is he in good health? Does he have mental problems? What's the job situation in the particular area where he lives? Why hasn't he tried to retrain himself? "We can't all go into gene splicing," is a mindless, cynical, defeatist statement that doesn't account for the endless variety of opportunities in other fields that the dynamic U.S. economy makes available to those willing to exploit them.
When people use the term "corporate profits," as if it soils their mouths to say it, you can be sure they have a particular agenda.
Unfortunately, I have seen many similar situations where someone with a college degree isn't able to get a basic service job such as at the "corner store" during tough times. I think those hiring either think the person won't stay, are intimidated or jealous of the college degree, or think the person is after a management job. The only area where I have seen someone who is overqualified find it easy to get hired is in manual labor jobs (such as painting, window installation or road work). But even there, sometimes illegal laborers will come along and try to take the job (literally in one case while the workers were out to lunch).
Typical crap from the LA Times.
My son graduated from college recently with a four year degree in Industrial Engineering.
He had numerous offers for good jobs, and settled on a 60K a year job (plus great benefits) with a fortune 500 company. He has also had several additional offers since, and believe me, my son was not at the top of his class or anything like that.
People who claim they can't get a job, I believe, are either setting their sights too high or demanding an exact job the same as they had before.
Exactly; when the labor market statistics start to paint a much better picture, the media has to move on to rare individual cases that defy the rule. By giving only part of the picture, they have no trouble making the situation appear bad. Claims like he couldn't even get a job at the corner store implies that no one is hiring to the undiscerning reader, even though that is clearly not the case.
Typical Seattle Times Blame Bush for Everything Wrong letter to the editor. They run about ten of these a day. Most of the time they're just fabrications to blame Bush. I wish the anarchists still remaining in the Pacific NW would find something to do besides blaming Bush for everything not living up to their expectations. I realize that there are some legitimate cases of hardship but Seattle Times runs so many of these letters written in the same style that it's difficult to believe their own staff isn't writing them. And then of course, LA Times will write an article based on it. Why can't they find somebody in their own backyard to write about? Wouldn't you think if the phenomenon is so commonplace, they don't have to write about some guy's story halfway across the country -- based on a letter to the editor no less.
I'm glad to hear that your son got a job without being at the top of his class. Not a bad a salary to start out with either. I on the other hand did graduate in the top 5 percent of my class in Computer Science in 2003 and have yet to land a job for even half that amount. If I knew that I could get a job in Industrial engineering I would go back to school and get a degree in that as well.
BS!
Who are the analysts who state such a claim?
Me thinks the only thing that is getting tougher is personal ability to bite the bullet, swallow pride, and get a job which is sufficient enough to pay the bills.
However, loss of pride and hard work nowadays is considered reason for not working and taxing the system through personal compensation.
The health insurance is a killer. Especially for small companies. Of course, I don't know about this particular man, and I didn't read the whole article even, but I know that hubby really had a heck of a time getting a job, and I think it is because he is over 50. I think there IS a lot of age discrimination against anyone over 50, maybe even over 45, and I think you are right that fear of high health insurance premiums is part of that.
And, this is a little off topic maybe, but I also think American companies have cut staff to the absolute minimum and the quality of service you get is really starting to suffer as a result. Shareholder value/profits are good things but you can make plenty of money selling crap in a crappy way and it is not the only benchmark. Especially in this era of consolidation which eliminates competitors.
For example, are folks in other parts of the country (besides the Northeast seaboard) having horrible problems with the mail, like we are here? There's no real competitor to the Post Office and no matter what, you can't send EVERYTHING via Fed Ex.
Bingo! Most corporations do not buy health insurance. They are self-insured. The company that supposedly provides health insurance merely adminsters the corporation's self-insurance plan. Health costs go up when employees near or pass age 50, hence, best not to have those type of employees.
Can a business owner offer to higher an older person, or a person for health problems for that matter.. but not offer them health benefits?
Or does the government step into to 'help' the old by making sure they have to be covered the same way.. thus meaning they simply aren't hired.
"He had numerous offers for good jobs, and settled on a 60K a year job (plus great benefits) with a fortune 500 company."
I notice many who have been in a field for a while, but get kicked out for whatever reason, expect to start again at the salary and benefits they were making before.
For all we know this guy was fired for incompetence.. he certainly doesn't sound bright with his 'not everyone can do gene splicing' comment.
Meanwhile for a young man like your son 60k a year with benefits to start is awesome. And I'm sure if he works hard, and stays with the new technology, his salary will rise as time goes on.
The LA Times, fair and balanced.
"Can a business owner offer to higher an older person, or a person for health problems for that matter.. but not offer them health benefits?"
You might make a deal with someone like that, but you certainly couldn't make it a policy, that would indeed be age discrimination. And a lot of people, especially second household earners, take jobs just to get the health benefits for their families.
I am one of those, with USELESS college degrees.
Sure, you say, go to Wal-Mart, Mcdonalds, or some other sh*t job. I did NOT go to college, TWICE, to take a nickel and dime job. THIS, is one area where I REALLY disagree with Rush and Sean. BOTH of them, have made it, and so, they find it EASY to tell someone who is struggling, to just "suck it up', "be a man", or some other useless sh#t. I'LL BET, IF THEIR SHIP SPRUNG A LEAK, AND SANK, THEY WOULDN'T BE SO COCKY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am 37,going on 38, and ,for 20 years now, have tried to climb the "corporate ladder', so to speak, and seem to keep falling back down. I wasted the last 2 years, geting a computer networking degree, TOTALLY useless. My main career, electronic reapir, is nearly dried up, and most of the tv shops in this area, are owned by Arabs, who like to pay white guys sh*t, while they get 400 to 600 a repair, for a big screen.I am on unemployment, since Dec, when I was laid off from my CC job, which, until May, looked quite promising.
DO NOT tell me, to just "go get a job at Wal-Mart,"while talking about buying new $2500 dollar rims for your BMW. THAT is a heartless, hurtful, useless statement.
I imagine this reply will make more unpopular here, than I already am. OH WELL. I am NOT going to take another step DOWN the corporate ladder, I am too darn old for that. I do not really know what I will do, after unemployment runs out, but it will NOT be a sh*t job, that much I can assure you. I am hoping, and praying(as is my family), someone will pick up my novel, and publish it, and that would solve my problems, once and for all, IF I could become a sucessful writer.
It seems that they expect to make more money than others simply because they have a college degree. Well college degrees are essentially meaningless to me. I am looking for employees who are self-starters, good with customers and have the ability to work independently. I couldn't care less if they have some liberal arts degree from some fancy-pants college. It adds absolutely nothing to their value in the marketplace.
I see, even if you made a deal like that, I would imagine you would just make yourself a sitting duck for an age discrimination lawsuit anyway.
I am planning to start my own business in a few years, once I get more experienced in the industry I am in.. I am thinking of just offering much higher salaries with no health benefits whatsoever.
Maybe I can grab some of these talented older folks who are being turned down elsewhere.
"I get around this by offering health insurance with a very high deductible and a large co-pay."
Thats a good idea. Its obvious as our medical technology gets more powerful, the costs of healthcare are only going to rise. The old way of throwing in medicare benefits for all, probably made sense when most things you couldn't treat anyway, and the workforce was generally young.
Is the "bottom line" a real consideration or not?
I got out of college right before 9-11-01, and it became impossible to find decent work. Wound up working in a supermarket for a while. Yeah, it sucked. But it paid (barely) for my car payment and my insurance. I survived the ignominy of having to live with my mother for a while. You do what you need to do until an opportunity comes.
You're going to be furious at me for saying it, but the truth hurts. It's likely your bad attitude that is holding you back.
Too late. The illegal immigrants themselves operate those grass cutting services.
America allows its citizens to move to Canada where the opportunities are as bright as Winter ...
It seems too many people tried to ride the bandwagon in tech instead of studying what was needed in the market place before making a choice in professions.
If he'd go to Mexico, slip back into the US through the border without any documents, forge the ones he needs once here, and be willing to work for cash - he'll find a job within a week.
One of my best friends dropped his masters for starting a cleaning business - he's now cleaning houses and businesses and hauling in wads.
The truth hurts but you are right.
This reporter ought to be jobless. Perhaps they should ACTUALLY CITE where the hell they got this info?
That reads like a college newpaper reporter making sh*t up, defined as the MSM purposely lying and being sloppy, and the MSM making sh*t up is AT RECORD RATES.
I had a conversation with a very high level technical instructor yesterday, who made a very important point...
When you make your living off of your knowledge, whether you're an IT person, or some other sort of industry... When you sell what you know, your expertise, you can expect to lose 25% of your value every year! That's why it's so important to keep learning and retraining on new technologies.
Still, it's important to actually have a job... All the training in the world isn't going to help you find a job, if the jobs are all gone. What's important is to try to find a job that can not be outsourced. And something that simply doesn't have a glut of workers competing for few jobs. Examples would be getting training and eventually a job as an electrician, carpenter, or plumber in Silacon Valley. IT guys are a dime a dozen out there. Try finding a good plumber!
This is just an observation, I'm not trying to make any sort of a point with this statement.
Mark
We live in an adult world. You'll either succeed or fail or fall someplace in the middle. And, the eventual outcome won't mean much to anyone except you.
Two things -- and trust me, these are good pieces of advice:
A)Almost nobody is rescued. Odds are very good that nobody will step in and rescue you at the last minute, no matter how good a guy you are.
B)Miracles in employment rarely, if ever, happen. It's like sitting at the starting line and hoping for a miracle to help you win the race.
C)Unless you're from a wealthy family, life in these United States is a "do it yourself" proposition.
Yes -- C) was a bonus piece of advice.
Hey, it works for the government, why not in the private sector?
Mark
start your own company, offer your services, don't be too proud to go door to door (have to pick evenings, no one is home during the day), don't be too proud to hawk your stuff whenever and wherever you can.
I had to do that. I am the owner of a small but growing company. I just smile at the folks who say "it must be nice to own your own business." They do not know the insecurity and stress, but it beats working for someone else. Starting your own small electronics repair will scare the living hell out of you, but you will have a new appreciation for the "greedy business owners" plus a new disdain for government "help" and a healthy humility if you DO succeed. Plus, you will have self respect on a level that no corporate paycheck can ever give you. Don't just limit yourself to electronics, either. Do what you LOVE to do, and then it ain't work. Just my advice.
I wish you the very best of luck.
One of my best friends dropped his masters for starting a cleaning business - he's now cleaning houses and businesses and hauling in wads.
Exactly, people seem to think that once you get a piece of paper the world owes you a good living. If you can't find a need and fill it for a profit you probably don't deserve to be hired either. I realize though that most people are taught from little up to do good in school so they can get a good secure job. Unfortunately, they're not taught basic capitalism.
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