True ghost tales

Before the big bang is a bit of a misleading concept. Its like asking whats north of the north pole. Time didnt exist according to the theory. At least not as we can understand it. If you really want to cook your melon try to get your brain wrapped around String Theory. Just as strange as ghosts!
Unknown is an answer. Unknown means we haven't figured it out yet. Unexplained is a legitimate answer. But it is a leap in logic to apply an explanation to something that is unexplained. It is irresponsible. Ghosts seem to have many plausible and more likely explanations than the fantastic in my opinion.
Measurable phenomenon like the cosmic background radiation is at least something you can measure and verify, theories for its existence can then be raised. Ghosts do not meet any scientific criteria yet. Look I would love it to be true. It would be amazing, drop dead amazing. pun intended.
Because of the massive ramifications don't you think it should be proven scientifically first? If people believe so strongly that it is indeed real, why not go that next step and work hard at finding the scientific proof? Not just stories around the campfire and halfbaked self proclaimed "parapsychologists".
I run seti@home software on my PC looking through data from the radio observatory in Puerto Rico for alien signals. I would love it if all the UFO stuff were true. But because it is so important to me. I want that proof. Nobody has come forth with it yet. And it is the hard way no question. Its going to take hard work and time, a loong time. But here I am, running the software, helping to look for the proof that will change the world. Because I feel its that important.

It seems to me you would deny their existence regardless of what proof was presented to you. You have indicated as such by refusing to even respond to challenges to go to where the ghosts are to find out for yourself if they are real or not.

If you wish to remain naive and ignorant, that's fine. But don't be wasting anyone's time by telling them there is no proof when you won't bother looking for it.

Your mistaken and I have explained myself pretty well in this thread.

Good luck to you.

Your mistaken and I have explained myself pretty well in this thread.

No, you are running because I am not mistaken. You are running because I have you pegged.

Do us a favor and avoid threads like this in the future.

"It seems to me you would deny their existence regardless of what proof was presented to you."

No scientific proof has been presented to me. Only invitations to travel to another part of the country to expereince it for myself. The scientifc community does not care if I go, experience the most extreme ghost encounter known to man, and run screaming from the house. What proof do I have to give them? What do you have to give them?

"You have indicated as such by refusing to even respond to challenges to go to where the ghosts are to find out for yourself if they are real or not."

A personal challeng to someone ont he internet is irrelevant to science. It is not scientific process to challenge some guy on the intenet that you feel does not believe in something you do. Ive said it before. *I* am not the one to prove *anything* to. Are you trying to convince skeptics one at a time? The scientific community is where your efforts should be focused if you want to convince more people. Or are you content to discuss things only with other believers and never try to prove this remarkable phenemenon to the world?

"If you wish to remain naive and ignorant, that's fine."

This borders on insulting. I think it does your arguement no good to react as such when scientific proof is asked of your assertions. As I said before. I will be the first one reading the headlines when scientific proof is given. And it would be headlines around the world. If they were real I think it would be great. I am not colored but wanting ir or not wanting it to be true. Whats the line from "The Fugitive" when Harrison Ford keeps saying hes innocent to Tommmy Lee Jones...."I dont care". His job was not to judge him, just to catch him.

Your responsiblitiy is to prove it to the scientific community. Not convince some skeptic on the internet. Skeptics must accept scientific proof. Thus I as well.

"But don't be wasting anyone's time by telling them there is no proof when you won't bother looking for it."

Sorry to inconvience you with questions and open debate. Its not my burden to produce the proof of fantastic claims is it? I should not catch flack simply by asking for scientific proof.

"No, you are running because I am not mistaken. You are running because I have you pegged."

You are mistaken because you are not reading my previous comments very well. I dont care if you are anyone else feels that I am "pegged". Im glad you feel satisfied. However your not any closer to scientific proof of your claims because of it. Im having a hard time trying to undestand why I am singled out for this attention. I am not the issue. Scientific proof is. Not one person here has really made a good effort to explain to me why ghosts cant be scientifically proven. It all seems to be purely based on faith in ones beliefs and no more.

As for me running, I saw no more useful debate, made my points, and the thread was tired.

The focus seemed to be on changing my mind. Not on changing the worlds mind with scientific proof.

"Do us a favor and avoid threads like this in the future."

Why not welcome skepticim? Why not welcome the critical eye and scrutiny? Why not welcome open debate in a public forum? Why not welcome ALL the public to hear and freely dicuss things?

Sorry, I just dont undestand that last comment. Nor does it represent all participants in this thread. You just dont have that power.

If ghosts are indeed real. I *very* much hope that scientific proof is found. This is sincerely my wish. I imagine you would hope for this too.

Good luck to you.

No scientific proof has been presented to me. Only invitations to travel to another part of the country to expereince it for myself. The scientifc community does not care if I go, experience the most extreme ghost encounter known to man, and run screaming from the house. What proof do I have to give them? What do you have to give them?

I am not talking to the scientific community. I am talking to you.

Your responsiblitiy is to prove it to the scientific community. Not convince some skeptic on the internet. Skeptics must accept scientific proof. Thus I as well.

This is such an incredible example of a strawman all I can do laugh at its simplicity.

Scientists don't wait around for someone to bring proof to them. They go and find it themselves. It's part of the job description.

If you keep relying on others to provide proof for you that's just intellectual laziness.

This borders on insulting.

Then be insulted. The movie quote you cited applies: I don't care. If the shoe fits, wear it.

I am not the issue. Scientific proof is.

Uh, no. You refuse to open your mind to the possibility of things existing outside of science. You refuse to look for any proof yourself, deciding instead to allow others to do it for you. You are the issue, whether you like it or not.

Why not welcome skepticism? Why not welcome the critical eye and scrutiny?

It's not welcome when it is used to ridicule or insult those who believe in such phenomena.

My questions keep being ignored.

"I am not talking to the scientific community. I am talking to you."

Well if you want me to believe I want to see data reviewed by the world scientific community. The claims are so fanatastic it demands it. Like cold fusion did.

"This is such an incredible example of a strawman all I can do laugh at its simplicity."

Well if you want people to stop lauging at ghosts scientific proof will put an end to it dead bang.

"Scientists don't wait around for someone to bring proof to them. They go and find it themselves. It's part of the job description."

I am not a scientist. The topic was "true ghost story". I looked at it but there was no verifiable evidence gathered with scientific process to determine any rational cause.

"If you keep relying on others to provide proof for you that's just intellectual laziness."

Then dont fly on any airplanes is my advice. You rely on others everyday who build and made things our lives depend on using the scientific process.

"Uh, no. You refuse to open your mind to the possibility of things existing outside of science. You refuse to look for any proof yourself, deciding instead to allow others to do it for you. You are the issue, whether you like it or not."

Ok, I belive in ghosts. They are REAL. I believe. Now what? Where do we go from here? My GOD life after death! Other diminsions? Entities with powers beyond humans, alternative forms of existence. WE have got to study this thing and let the world know....oh wait minute. WE gotta prove it. Back to square one. How do you expect the world to take any of this serious without proof? Is that so unreasonable an expectation? If you think it is unreasonable I dont know what else to say.

Why not welcome skepticism? Why not welcome the critical eye and scrutiny?

"It's not welcome when it is used to ridicule or insult those who believe in such phenomena."

Did I call you ignorant? You better learn to deal with an extremely slight critical comment from time to time if your choosing to champion ghosts in publics forums.

Do you think ghosts can or ever will be proven with scientific process? If not, why?

Is it unreasonable to want scientific proof of these incredible claims?

If anyone else is even left on this thread.........

I recommend The Demon Haunted World -Science as a Candle in the Dark by Carl Sagan.

http://tinyurl.com/4rasm

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence"

Hadn't seen this thread before.

Here is a very good scary ghost video -- you must have your speakers turned up, and you must pay close attention or you'll miss it!

Director's Comments: This is a VW commercial from central Europe. When we finished filming the people who proofed it noticed something moving along the side of the car, like a ghostly white mist. This spot was never approved for TV broadcast because the unexplained ghostly image, the general population of mainly poorly educated and superstitious farm workers might flip out.

Watch it and about halfway through, as the car emerges from the grove of trees, look and you will see the white mist crossing in front of the car then following it along the road......

http://uk.download.yahoo.com/ne/fu/attachments/classicauto.mpg