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Dallas billboard asks: 'Why Islam?'
WFAA ^ | 3/11/2005 | Ron Harris

Posted on 03/13/2005 1:09:06 PM PST by 4.1O dana super trac pak

The way to religious tolerance is through a billboard - or at least that's the idea behind a display for tens of thousands of commuters in North Dallas each day.

It's not a question a lot of people ask themselves on the way to work. But there it is, hanging above westbound LBJ Freeway near Webb Chapel: "Why Islam?"

The sign also offers a Web site address and a toll-free phone number in New Jersey.

"When the call comes in, it transfers to the team of volunteers," said Adnan Fyed of the Islamic Circle of North America. "And those volunteers they will call you back and they pick up the phone at the same time."

"Why Islam?" is a program run by the Islamic Circle of North America to educate anyone who wants to know about the religion. The website offers information on Allah, pilgramages and even audio lectures.

Visitors can also watch a slide show on Ramadan, and are invited to visit a mosque. There's even a chatroom.

"If you go and become a member of the forum, you can go and ask whatever questions you have," Fyed said.

The chat room addresses such topics as suicide bombings, and hating Christians.

With so many hostile ideas out there, the effort aims to help provide the truth about the religion.

The packed parking lot for Friday services at the Islamic Center of Irving shows how much the faith is growing in North Texas. Now with the hotline and the website, members of the community hope to get out the word concerning what Islam is all about.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: Texas
KEYWORDS: billboard; convert; icna; islam; islamiccircle; muslim; taquiyya; terrorist
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To: Smartaleck
Our military is in two Muslim countries. You think that the news about all the changes taking place there is a lie? Woman aren't voting, going to school, driving cars, seeing male doctors.....all those things formerly forbidden by the religious leaders?

I think any Muslim individual or organization in a non-Muslim country that condemns the spread of Islam by force can simply be practicing al-Taqiyya. How can we tell the difference?

All the behaviors you cite had to be militarily enforced, and they are all in opposition to the Islamic holy book. The effort is ongoing to deprogram cult victims. But, you said it: two Muslim countries. It is not necessary to practice al-Taqiyya, only in foreign countries where the Islamic numbers make the cult movement vulnerable.

In my opinion, you have a seriously soft head, friend.

151 posted on 03/14/2005 7:53:44 AM PST by William Terrell (Individuals can exist without government but government can't exist without individuals.)
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To: William Terrell

"If a Muslim does not follow the commands of Islam found in plain words in the Koran, is he a Muslim or an infidel?"

Every bit as much as someone who doesn't follow the "Word of God" is a non-believer.

Whole lot of Christians aren't going to make it to heaven based on thou shalt not lie and what they put on their income taxes. :-)

Of course Christians can't even agree on who's going to heaven depending on when they're Baptized.


152 posted on 03/14/2005 7:53:54 AM PST by Smartaleck
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To: Smartaleck; TexasCowboy; broadsword; Fred Nerks

"So all the Muslim woman who supposedly have "gained certain freedoms" in Afghanistan and Iraq, contrary to some of the perceived Muslim doctrines, is all a big lie? It didn't happen? Wow you need to get the NY Times right on that farce."


That statement is not relevent to the discussion on this thread; and you know it.

I appreciate your need to see yourself as an objective observer; but you're shooting rim shots.

Perspective usually helps folks like you.


153 posted on 03/14/2005 8:00:05 AM PST by Bennett46
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To: Smartaleck
I asked, "If a Muslim does not follow the commands of Islam found in plain words in the Koran, is he a Muslim or an infidel?".

You responded, "Every bit as much as someone who doesn't follow the "Word of God" is a non-believer."

A Christian who doesn't not follow the law of God and the teaching of Christ is not a Christian.

You avoided the question. Is a Muslim that doesn't follow, or tries to "interpret" away, the commands of his holy book a Muslim or an infidel?

Easy answer:

(A) Muslim
(B) Infidel

Chose one. Islam admits of no middle ground, again by the word of its holy writings.

154 posted on 03/14/2005 8:05:20 AM PST by William Terrell (Individuals can exist without government but government can't exist without individuals.)
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To: Smartaleck
ROFLMAO Nazis's are a a denomination?

ROFLMAO Uh, no. You asked who was responsible for the holocaust. ROFLMAO I told you. ROFLMAO.

155 posted on 03/14/2005 8:11:48 AM PST by Skooz (Overtaxed host organism for the parasitical State)
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To: Irishguy

"I understnad that you dont agree and to be honest thats fine with me,"

The only thing I don't agree with is the broadbrush genealization that all people fit the same mold. Statistically it's impossible.

If you look at my posts I ask questions. Call it trolling if you like, but I like to know what the truth is.

Speaking of Nazi's, how did they use rhetoric in tone and tenor to broadbrush all Jews as bad people? What was the result?

(BTW....might want to look into the differences between ideology and religion.)

"You seem to think that the issues of christanity and islam are the same"

Nope you are wrong there. I believe there are similarities in religions, that's why they meet the definition of a religion. I believe some use their faith in religion to further the "good" in the world and others abuse it.

Note: even the issues among Christians aren't entirely the same. Were they, there wouldn't be so many different denominations would there?


156 posted on 03/14/2005 8:12:10 AM PST by Smartaleck
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To: Smartaleck

I don't know and I would rather that they would just keep to themselves but I don't see that happening.


157 posted on 03/14/2005 8:14:01 AM PST by KingofQue
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To: Happy2BMe
Islam
158 posted on 03/14/2005 8:19:20 AM PST by blackie (Be Well~Be Armed~Be Safe~Molon Labe!)
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To: William Terrell
"All the behaviors you cite had to be militarily enforced, and they are all in opposition to the Islamic holy book."

And if you think about it, the Taliwhackers had to "militarily" enforce their beliefs on people on those same people.

"In my opinion, you have a seriously soft head, friend."

Given the continuous news of people of the Middle East, the Muslim countries, embracing Bush's goal of spreading Democracy and the people's right to govern themselves we shall see which ideology will win out in the long run.

At one time all a people knew was the supreme right of the Church and Monarchy to rule them. America proved differently. I happen to believe that with our help others will do likewise.

Call me softheaded if you like but the tenants regarding the nature of man that people like Locke, Jefferson, Burke and others put forth, did and will prevail in the future when people are enlightened. You are indeed entitled to believe otherwise.
159 posted on 03/14/2005 8:27:42 AM PST by Smartaleck
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To: William Terrell

"You avoided the question. Is a Muslim that doesn't follow, or tries to "interpret" away, the commands of his holy book a Muslim or an infidel?"

And Granny Bush leans pro-choice so she's not a Christian because she believes in murder. Gotcha.


160 posted on 03/14/2005 8:31:40 AM PST by Smartaleck
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To: Bennett46

"Perspective usually helps folks like you."

In hindsight, we see that the wholesale condemnation of a group of people called Jews was just that, a lack of perspective. Hopefully people will have the perspective to see that it doesn't happen again. Will you?


161 posted on 03/14/2005 8:41:50 AM PST by Smartaleck
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To: William Terrell; Irishguy
http://www.ci-ce-ct.com/Feature%20articles/02-12-2002.asp

Taqiyya and kitman: The role of Deception in Islamic terrorism

Tradecraft. Persona. Deception. Disinformation. Cover: Western operational terms and techniques. But, Islamic terrorists have their own terms:  taqiyya (pronounced tark-e-ya) : precautionary dissimulation or deception and keeping one’s convictions secret and a synonymous term, kitman: mental reservation and dissimulation or concealment of malevolent intentions...  

Taqiyya and kitman or ‘holy hypocrisy’ has been diffused throughout Arabic culture for over fourteen hundred years since it was developed by Shiites as a means of defence and concealment of beliefs against Sunni unbelievers. As the Prophet said: 'he who keeps secrets shall soon attain his objectives.

The skilful use of taqiyya and kitman was often a matter of life and death against enemies; it is also a matter of life and death to many contemporary Islamic terrorists. As so often in the history of Islam, a theological doctrine became operational.

During the Spanish inquisition, Sunni Moriscos attended mass and returned home to wash their hands of the ‘holy water’. In operational terms, taqiyya and kitman allowed the ‘mujahadeen ’ to assume whatever identity was necessary to fulfill their mission; they had doctrinal and theological and later jurisprudential sanction to  pretend to be Jews or Christians to gain access to Christian and Jewish targets: ‘the mujahadeen can take the shape of the enemy’.

Taqiyya is common to both Shiite and Sunni Muslim discourse and has significant implications for understanding Islamic fundamentalism and terrorist operations. The theory and practice of counter terrorism would be counter productive, indeed pointless, and even harmful, without reference to taqiyya and kitman and the crucial role of deception ranging from Islamic jurisprudence to Al Qaeda training manuals, which carry detailed instructions on the use of deception by terrorists in Western target countries.

According to Christian ethics lying is a sin; In Islamic jurisprudence and theology, the use of taqiyya against the unbelievers is regarded as a virtue and a religious duty.


"Verily the most honourable of you in the sight of God
is the most pious among you; verily, God is knowing, aware!" 49:13


Shi'a interpret the phrase above as
"he among you who exercises Taqiyya most"

 

Like many Islamic concepts taqiyya and kitman were formed within the context of the Arab-Islamic matrix of tribalism, expansionary warfare and conflict. Taqiyya has been used by Muslims since the 7th century to confuse and split 'the enemy. A favored tactic was ‘deceptive triangulation’; to persuade the enemy that jihad was not aimed at them but at another enemy. Another tactic was to deny that there was jihad at all.  The fate for such faulty assessments by the target was death.

Sydney NSW Australia: 2 November 2002

Sheik Taj el-Din al Hilaly, the controversial Grand Mufti of Australia, is enjoying lunch with his trusted assistant Keysar Trad. The journalist writing of the meeting with the Sheik noted:

'Several times, when direct responses to questions about passages in the Koran begged a simple yes or no, both men preferred to avoid the issues by talking about the difficulties of translating passages from Arabic to English.’

Referring to the Sheikhs blithe dismissal of his virulent anti-Semitic remarks in 1998, the journalist reflected:

'I can only muse at the facility of my guest, who has also praised suicide bombers in more recent times, to dismiss his notorious and abominable remarks with such ease and without actual apology. It seems clear that he is considering the way his remarks will be construed by the Sunday Telegraph’s huge and influential audience when they are translated into Arabic for Muslims to debate. He’s walking a tightrope.'

The skilled journalist should not be puzzled as the Sheik's target audiences were Australians and not Arab readers. Taqiyya, or dissimulation, is a key feature in Islamic public discourse and confuses Western audiences. It is meant to, according to the Koran:

'Let not the believers take for friends or helpers unbelievers rather than believers; if any do that; they shall have no relation left with Allah except by way of precaution….that ye may guard yourselves’. 3:28

Al Taqiyya is with tongue only; not the heart. A believer can make any statement as long as the ‘heart is comfortable'. The 9/11 terrorists lived and visited in the United States for two years before the 9/11 attacks. How did they acculturate? By the use of taqiyya. Meaning:  I hate you but I smile at you-in public.

Taqiyya and ‘Outwitting’ in contemporary political discourse and debates

Outwitting: Islamic spokesmen commonly use taqiyya as a form of ‘outwitting’. The matter under discussion is not to be debated or discussed; rather the opponent is to ‘outwitted’ through taqiyya, by diversion of the subject and obfuscation aided at times with a mystical reference to God or Allah.

The claim that difficulties in translating from Arabic to English make communication with non-Arab speakers difficult or impossible, is another form of outwitting. The tactical use of a translator offers considerable advantage.

Role playing as victim: Claiming to be 'the victim’ of religious discrimination and intolerance during debate or discussion is another form of distraction and ‘outwitting’.

Manipulating ambiguity: Sheik Hilaly of Sydney, Australia is on public record as (a) ’condemning’ the 9/11 attacks in ambiguous terms and (b) praising suicide and martyr operations  However, Islamic spokesmen will rarely condemn a specific act of terrorism and direct questions will be skillfully evaded.

Diversion: For example, questions  relating to the 9/11 terrorists attacks will be diverted  by a causally irrelevant counter reference to the plight of the Palestinians, the nefarious role of Israel and US foreign policy and support for Israel as ‘causes’ of terrorism.

Anti-Semitism, a core belief of Islamic fundamentalism is also skillfully diverted  by misleading and exaggerated historical references to the alleged status enjoyed by Jews and non-believers under Islamic rule, thereby deflecting critical examination of the virulent contemporary Islamic anti-Semitism.

Demanding ’evidence’: Islamic spokesmen practice a form of taqiyya defined in psychology as ‘cognitive denial’ by repetitive and extreme requests for ‘evidence’ and ‘proof’ of alleged terrorist acts, which they know cannot be disclosed.  

Tactical denial: Rather than admitting that a proposition concerning a state of affairs can be partly true, an Islamic spokesman will deny a claim or proposition in absolute terms. For example, “It is impossible to be a Muslim and a terrorist’ , which is false and ‘Islam forbids suicide’, which is true, but irrelevant as suicide or martyrdom attacks are not forbidden in the Koran.

Exploiting cognitive dissonance: Islamic spokesman tend to be baffle television interviewers and puzzle viewers as they resort to double talk ‘clichés and platitudes’ concerning Islam. A state of cognitive dissonance-holding two contradictory beliefs and attempting to resolve them- is induced in viewers as they attempt to process the claim that Islam is a peaceful religion with the dissonant facts of Islamic terrorist acts and operations.

The Islamic ’defence’ script: Islamic spokesmen repeat the same predictable platitudes concerning Islam in London as do Islamic spokesmen in Seattle and often appear to follow a prepared script from “Islam is tolerant and peace loving’ to the claim by Islamic spokeswomen invariably claiming that wearing the veil offers them more freedom (women in Muslim countries are therefore ‘freer’ than women in western countries), thereby precluding further examination into the real status of women under Islamic rule.

Islamic platitudes are also echoed uncritically by Western politicians, for example ”A small group of fundamentalists have hijacked a great religion’. The timely, skilful, misleading and diversionary theme of the ‘hijacking’ of Islam was introduced into public, political and media discourse by an Islamic ‘spokesmen’ in the United States shortly after the 9/11 terrorist attacks.

The “Islam has been hijacked’ diversionary theme is now a conventional media and political reference deflecting attention from empirical and historical examination of the doctrinal, political and religious continuity of Islamic terrorism. A related theme that a small minority of Muslims are engaged in terrorism is utterly irrelevant as Islamic terrorism is always perpetrated by ‘small minorities’ or more accurately’ small groups’.

Taqiyya as impressions and perceptions management

The tactical use of children: Australia television viewers noted that interviews with terrorist suspects raided by security authorities invariably featured veiled women holding small children or a baby as they protested their husband’s innocence and attested to his innate goodness. Trembling fingers pointed to ‘damage’ to the family residence.  In some interviews the suspect / father holds the child, whilst denying involvement or knowledge of terrorism in any sense of the word: an example of taqiyya in the age of impressions and perception management.

Taqiyya and the Deceptive use of Jihad: The contemporary political meaning of jihad is clear: it is Jihad of the sword. Egyptian-based Islamic fundamentalists, from whom Bin Laden recruited his key operatives, believe jihad is the fourth pillar of Islam and is a binding belief and integral to the faith. Claiming that Jihad is a subjective and psychological state of personal struggle is taqiyya. In contemporary terms, Jihad means  - holy war - against unbelievers and it in this context that Al Qaeda training manuals refer to Jihad as ‘Holy War’.

The study of taqiyya and kitman is crucial to an understanding of Islamic fundamentalism and terrorism ranging from the issuing of false terrorist threats, operational and strategic disinformation issued by Al Qaeda in the form of ‘intelligence chatter’ to the use of taqiyya and kitman by terrorists during interrogation and the use of systematically misleading expressions concerning Islam and terrorism by Muslim ‘spokesmen’.

 



162 posted on 03/14/2005 8:42:25 AM PST by Happy2BMe (Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.)
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To: dennisw; SJackson; MeekOneGOP; TrueBeliever9; Geist Krieger; JohnHuang2; Salem; Sanch; ...

#162 - Taqiyya and kitman.


163 posted on 03/14/2005 8:43:56 AM PST by Happy2BMe (Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.)
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To: Skooz

"What


denomination******* do you think the people who were responsible for the holocaust were? Don't think they were Muslims?"

"You asked who was responsible for the holocaust."

Reading comprehension........it's a good thing. :-)


164 posted on 03/14/2005 8:44:19 AM PST by Smartaleck
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To: Smartaleck
Well, I was trying to be kind and not bring up the serious flaw in your original question.

I try to avoid mocking silly and unlearned people. It's called "compassion."

Ok. You asked "What denomination do you think the people who were responsible for the holocaust were? ..."

The sentence is so deeply flawed as to be unanswerable. I gave it shot. Take it or leave it.

165 posted on 03/14/2005 8:53:27 AM PST by Skooz (Overtaxed host organism for the parasitical State)
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To: Smartaleck

"In hindsight, we see that the wholesale condemnation of a group of people called Jews was just that, a lack of perspective. Hopefully people will have the perspective to see that it doesn't happen again. Will you?"

Thank you for finally coming around to the topic of discussion concerning this thread.

Yes sir, I will and do!


166 posted on 03/14/2005 8:53:55 AM PST by Bennett46
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To: KingofQue

"I don't know and I would rather that they would just keep to themselves but I don't see that happening."

It would be nice. I'm sure that when they see the wholesale condemnation of all of them due to the zealot few they feel a need to not just keep to themselves.

Likewise I'm sure there are those that would like to see Christians keep to themselves, yet, when people are bombarded with values different from their own or bad propaganda pevades the public discourse, people feel the need to address it and speak up.


167 posted on 03/14/2005 8:56:43 AM PST by Smartaleck
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To: Happy2BMe
I see that someone on this thread is giving a very excellent demonstration of taqiyya and qitman.
168 posted on 03/14/2005 8:56:49 AM PST by Alouette (Learned Mother of Zion)
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To: Happy2BMe; Fiddlstix

Excellent documentation!


169 posted on 03/14/2005 8:58:18 AM PST by EdReform (Free Republic - helping to keep our country a free republic. Thank you for your financial support!)
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To: Alouette

taqiyya and qitman are in full bloom.


170 posted on 03/14/2005 8:58:29 AM PST by Happy2BMe (Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.)
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To: Yardbird
The 1st Amendment needs to be amendede to exclude (insert name of group you don't like here).


Believe it or not, in America, you're not gonna like everything you hear / read / see. Personally, I think changing the first amendment to exclude anyone is far worse than what the Islamic radicals could do -- they can attack us, but they can't change who we are as a NATION, our history, and what we stand for.


That's exactly what you are proposing.

171 posted on 03/14/2005 9:00:23 AM PST by cdbull23 ("If it's brown, drink it down. If it's black, send it back." - Homer on what's good to drink.)
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To: Smartaleck
"Show me where in our "Christian laws" it states we should stone people to death as advocated in the Bible...."

That's the point, it doesn't. If one should do so, in the name of Christ, than they are not following doctrine.

On the other hand, the Koran is full of commandments to do so....

Do You Understand Now?
172 posted on 03/14/2005 9:03:26 AM PST by PigRigger (Send donations to http://www.AdoptAPlatoon.org)
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To: 4.1O dana super trac pak

"Why-Islam." = Incompentent billboard artist, inadvertently omits "sucks" from sign on busy Dallas highway.


173 posted on 03/14/2005 9:03:48 AM PST by F.J. Mitchell (When the left hates you, rejoice, for you are right!!!!!)
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To: Happy2BMe

Death To all islamofascist terrorists!


174 posted on 03/14/2005 9:04:21 AM PST by blackie (Be Well~Be Armed~Be Safe~Molon Labe!)
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To: Alouette; Happy2BMe

I see that someone on this thread is giving a very excellent demonstration of taqiyya and qitman.



Ya think? He's got a way to go in technique though.

So much to learn and so little time.


175 posted on 03/14/2005 9:08:45 AM PST by Bennett46
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To: Bennett46

"Thank you for finally coming around to the topic of discussion."

Billboards in Dallas....."With so many hostile ideas out there, the effort aims to help provide the truth about the religion."

So did you call and hear their side of it?


176 posted on 03/14/2005 9:14:37 AM PST by Smartaleck
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To: PigRigger

"If one should do so, in the name of Christ, than they are not following doctrine."

Since Jews don't do so in the name of Christ where do they fit in? They wrote the book don't cha know?


177 posted on 03/14/2005 9:16:20 AM PST by Smartaleck
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To: Smartaleck

Lemme guess, you helped pay to get this disgusting billboard up didn't you.


178 posted on 03/14/2005 9:27:18 AM PST by G32
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To: Happy2BMe

Role playing as victim: Claiming to be 'the victim’ of religious discrimination and intolerance during debate or discussion is another form of distraction and ‘outwitting’.


179 posted on 03/14/2005 9:28:16 AM PST by B4Ranch (The Minutemen will be doing a 30 day Neighborhood Watch Program in Cochise County, Arizona.)
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To: All

Prominent U.S. Muslims speak in support of the Islamization of America. from here: http://www.aish.com/jewishissues/middleeast/Conquering_America.asp
pretty chilling....


180 posted on 03/14/2005 9:30:53 AM PST by Sapirit
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To: TexKat

Glad to know you have the Metroplex's right flank covered!

LOL---Maybe I have read Dallas wrong, as long you are there TexKat, I won't worry!!!


181 posted on 03/14/2005 9:33:57 AM PST by Txsleuth (Mark Levin for Supreme Court Chief Justice!)
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To: Smartaleck

"So did you call and hear their side of it?"


LOL! I already know their side of it my fine muzzie friend.

Why exactly would I want to call their number?

Is there a chance I would be speaking to you if I called that number. How many of you are covering the phones, anyway?

You better get thyself back to the madrassa and sharpen your taqiyya skills.

Come back later and audition for us again.


182 posted on 03/14/2005 9:42:13 AM PST by Bennett46
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To: rottndog

"Islam is only tolerant and peaceful so long as you agree with and submit to its dictates."

Wow, you could insert Liberalism (which is merely a trojan horse for socialism) instead of Islam and your sentiment would still be correct!


183 posted on 03/14/2005 9:44:32 AM PST by Stellar Dendrite
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To: G32

"Lemme guess, you helped pay to get this disgusting billboard up didn't you."

You guess wrong and yes, free speech may be disgusting to some.


184 posted on 03/14/2005 10:21:02 AM PST by Smartaleck
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To: Smartaleck

It's as if I had to see a call for communism on a billboard in the 80's.

I have every right to be sickened and complain about it.


185 posted on 03/14/2005 10:22:49 AM PST by G32
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To: Bennett46

"So did you call and hear their side of it?"

"LOL! I already know their side of it my fine muzzie friend." You think you do anyway.

"Why exactly would I want to call their number?"

So as to not be ingnorant? So as to speal with some personal authority and knowledge of the subject?

"Is there a chance I would be speaking to you if I called that number."

Nope.

"Come back later and audition for us again."

Who's us?


186 posted on 03/14/2005 10:24:31 AM PST by Smartaleck
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To: G32

"I have every right to be sickened and complain about it."

Has anyone threatened that right?

Personally I don't get sickened by signs. God has a way of handling those things I believe. :-)


187 posted on 03/14/2005 10:33:39 AM PST by Smartaleck
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To: Smartaleck
"Since Jews don't do so in the name of Christ where do they fit in? They wrote the book don't cha know?"

What does the teachings of Christ have to do with those who decide to follow the Jewish faith?

Christian doctrine is separate and distinct from Judaism (as it is defined today - although many believe Christ is the fulfillment of what was promised in the second covenant).

Attempting to change the subject does not serve your point. Christian doctrine, and for that matter Judaic Law, does not dictate the slaying on non-believers just because they refuse to submit either religion.

Please point out in the new Testament, any command to the followers of Christ to kill non-believers.

You cannot, for it does not exist.

The same cannot be said for Islam.

Once you understand this point, you might be better served in defining your argument.
188 posted on 03/14/2005 10:34:24 AM PST by PigRigger (Send donations to http://www.AdoptAPlatoon.org)
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To: Yardbird
"The 1st needs to be amended to exclude islam. Now."

No amendment required as it is not a religion by any civilized standard just as the KKK is not a religion and does not enjoy the protection as such.

189 posted on 03/14/2005 10:37:14 AM PST by Wurlitzer (I have the biggest organ in my town {;o))
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To: 4.1O dana super trac pak
Q: Why Islam?

A: Cuz they'll behead ya if you don't.

190 posted on 03/14/2005 10:38:32 AM PST by Lazamataz (Proudly Posting Without Reading the Article Since 1999!)
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To: JesseHousman
"In fact, the Qur'an contains absolutely no internal inconsistencies whatsoever."

What the heck is this guy talking about...for starters, and its a big one, they deny the Deity of Christ....
191 posted on 03/14/2005 10:39:07 AM PST by PigRigger (Send donations to http://www.AdoptAPlatoon.org)
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To: Smartaleck
"Of course Christians can't even agree on who's going to heaven depending on when they're Baptized...."

Good Lord you are clueless...

A Christian does not believe any actions on their part can eran their way into heaven...there is only one way and that is trough Salvation offered through Christ. All one has to do is believe that Christ died for our wickedness, he cleaned the slate for us....We are saved by God's grace alone.

Don't try to pretend you understand what you have no knowledge of...
192 posted on 03/14/2005 10:45:43 AM PST by PigRigger (Send donations to http://www.AdoptAPlatoon.org)
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To: PigRigger

I really wonder how they can say that with a straight face. The thing was written by a schizophrenic!


193 posted on 03/14/2005 10:49:39 AM PST by G32
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To: B4Ranch; A. Pole; dennisw; SJackson; FBD; ApesForEvolution; devolve; MeekOneGOP; OXENinFLA
"Role playing as victim: Claiming to be 'the victim’ of religious discrimination and intolerance during debate or discussion is another form of distraction and ‘outwitting’."

===============================

Muslim group aims to mediate with Dell

194 posted on 03/14/2005 11:13:12 AM PST by Happy2BMe (Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.)
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To: dennisw; Cachelot; Yehuda; Nix 2; veronica; Catspaw; knighthawk; Alouette; Optimist; weikel; ...
If you'd like to be on this middle east/political ping list, please FR mail me.

Interesting forum.

As to Suicide bombings, that's not open for discussion

A decision has been made to no longer discuss the topic of suicide bombing on this message board. The position of WhyIslam can be summed up by the following fatwa by the late, respected scholar Shaikh Ibn Uthaymeen...

My guess, posters didn't agree with the Sheikh, who says suicide bombers go to hell.

But lots of other interesting stuff to discuss

Poll Question: What do you think about Hitler?

he is the worst man of 20th century. 8 [22.22%]

he is a hero. 11 [30.56%]

he made The most considerable Change in 20th century. 3 [8.33%]

for him many nations get their freedom from the European . 12 [33.33%]

he is told a vilen but he is not. 2 [5.56%]

195 posted on 03/14/2005 11:36:33 AM PST by SJackson (Be careful -- with quotations, you can damn anything, Andre Malraux)
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To: PigRigger

"Of course Christians can't even agree on who's going to heaven depending on when they're Baptized...."

"Good Lord you are clueless..."

Fundamentalists often criticize the Catholic Church’s practice of baptizing infants. According to them, baptism is for adults and older children, because it is to be administered only after one has undergone a "born again" experience—that is, after one has "accepted Jesus Christ as his personal Lord and Savior." At the instant of acceptance, when he is "born again," the adult becomes a Christian, and his salvation is assured forever. Baptism follows, though it has no actual salvific value. In fact, one who dies before being baptized, but after "being saved," goes to heaven anyway.
http://www.catholic.com/library/Infant_Baptism.asp

This guy goes into more about differences.
http://www.stnm.org/UncleMarty/sacrament/08.html

"All one has to do is believe that Christ died for our wickedness, he cleaned the slate for us."

According to you an infant, incapable of embracing Christ, don't make it.

Take care... TTFN


196 posted on 03/14/2005 11:42:09 AM PST by Smartaleck
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To: SJackson
The Mind of Islam - not even Muslims can understand it.

Good post, SJ.

197 posted on 03/14/2005 11:43:35 AM PST by Happy2BMe (Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.)
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To: Salem; sheik yerbouty; M 91 u2 K; D-Generation X

allah fubar ping!


198 posted on 03/14/2005 11:46:01 AM PST by Convert from ECUSA (tired of all the shucking and jiving)
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To: Skooz
Ok. You asked "What denomination do you think the people who were responsible for the holocaust were? ...The sentence is so deeply flawed as to be unanswerable. I gave it shot. Take it or leave it.

I'd speculate the Reich Church, essentially a pagan cult, would probably take the prize. Thanks to the Grand Mufti's efforts in Eastern Europe, I wouldn't be surprised if Islam came in second.

199 posted on 03/14/2005 11:51:53 AM PST by SJackson (Be careful -- with quotations, you can damn anything, Andre Malraux)
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To: Smartaleck
Please point out where Christ stated one must be baptized to be eligible to enjoy God's salvation?

You can't, and I'm not surprised.

What you are talking about is a matter of interpretation of what Christ commanded us to do. Christ did ask us to be baptized by the Holy Spirit...He did not make it a prerequisite in gaining forgiveness and Salvation.

Lastly, how does a commandment to be baptized dissuade from the point that the Koran commands its followers to kill the infidels?

Do you see moral equivalence between being commanded to be baptized and being commanded to kill? How do you interpret the command to "kill the infidels" in the Koran? Do you actually believe it means something else?

Again, I challenge you (since you stated that there is moral equivalence between the dictates of Christianity and Islam) to point out where in the New Testament it commands the followers of Christ to kill non believers!

Come on now, don't duck and run, finish what you started.
200 posted on 03/14/2005 11:56:10 AM PST by PigRigger (Send donations to http://www.AdoptAPlatoon.org)
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