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N.Y. Times: Iraq Had WMD 'Stockpiles' in 2003
NEWMAX.COM ^ | MARCH 13, 2005 | CARL LIMBACHER

Posted on 03/13/2005 5:53:53 PM PST by CHARLITE

In a stunning about-face, the New York Times reported Sunday that when the U.S. attacked Iraq in March 2003, Saddam Hussein possessed "stockpiles of monitored chemicals and materials," as well as sophisticated equipment to manufacture nuclear and biological weapons, which was removed to "a neighboring state" before the U.S. could secure the weapons sites.

The U.N.'s Monitoring, Verification and Inspection Commission [UNMOVIC] "has filed regular reports to the Security Council since last May," the paper said, "about the dismantlement of important weapons installations and the export of dangerous materials to foreign states."

"Officials of the commission and the [International] Atomic Energy Agency have repeatedly called on the Iraqi government to report on what it knows of the fate of the thousands of pieces of monitored equipment and stockpiles of monitored chemicals and materials." Last fall, IAEA director Dr. Mohamed ElBaradei confirmed that "nuclear-related materials" had gone missing from monitored sites, calling on Iraqi officials to start the process of accounting for the missing stockpiles still ostensibly under the agency's supervision.

Quoting Sami al-Araji, Iraq's deputy minister of industry since the 1980s, the Times said:

"It appeared that a highly organized operation had pinpointed specific plants in search of valuable equipment, some of which could be used for both military and civilian applications, and carted the machinery away."

Calling the operation "sophisticated," Dr. Araji said the removal effort featured "cranes and the lorries, and they depleted the whole sites," adding, "They knew what they were doing."

The top Iraqi defense official said equipment capable of making parts for missiles as well as chemical, biological and nuclear arms was missing from 8 or 10 sites that were the heart of Iraq's WMD program.

Dr. Araji said that if the equipment had left the country, its most likely destination was a neighboring state.

The United Nations, worried that the nuclear material and equipment could be used in clandestine bomb production, has been hunting for it throughout the Middle East, largely unsuccessfully, the Times said.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events; Philosophy; Politics/Elections; US: New York; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: 2003; facilities; factories; inspectors; invasion; iraq; iraqwar; monitoring; nuclear; nyt; nytimes; saddamhussein; stockpiles; syria; un; unmovic; weapons; wmd; wmds
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No one will convince me that the NY TIMES did not know all along exactly what was going on in Iraq, right up to the invasion, relative to these elusive WMDs.

Once the press began hammering President Bush about the "absence of WMDs in Iraq" by June of 2003, I heard Major General Paul Vallely say on Fox News, several times, that Saddam's weapons of mass destruction and all components, machinery and many of the personnel involved with the programs had been systematically trucked out of Iraq, through Syria and then buried in the Bekaa Valley in Lebanon. If Vallely knew it, the NY TIMES and the rest of the MSM also knew it.

So did the Democrat leadership. This makes their mantra of "Bush Lied" all the more perfidious.

1 posted on 03/13/2005 5:53:56 PM PST by CHARLITE
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To: CHARLITE

Some interesting comments on this earlier thread...
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1361906/posts


2 posted on 03/13/2005 6:02:41 PM PST by Blue Screen of Death (/i)
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To: CHARLITE

Was this buried in the classified section?


3 posted on 03/13/2005 6:03:21 PM PST by guitar Josh
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To: CHARLITE
Calling the operation "sophisticated," Dr. Araji said the removal effort featured "cranes and the lorries, and they depleted the whole sites," adding, "They knew what they were doing."

Sophisticated? Ha! Easy as 123.

F'ing Slimes, will they correct themselves in their editorials? I'm going to hold my breath now.

4 posted on 03/13/2005 6:03:51 PM PST by demlosers (We win. They lose. USA number 1 ! IYAAYAS !)
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To: CHARLITE

NYT - I stopped reading right there. Must be lies.


5 posted on 03/13/2005 6:07:32 PM PST by Doe Eyes
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To: CHARLITE
If Vallely knew it, the NY TIMES and the rest of the MSM also knew it.

Either the stuff is just about to turn up and the Slimes is attempting a little CYA, or else they're getting ready to hammer President Bush and Donald Rumsfeld about letting the WMDs fall into terrorist hands by failing to keep them from leaving the country. Probably both.

So now the President is not an evil man who lied to get us into war, he's just even more incompetent than we originally thought.

6 posted on 03/13/2005 6:08:08 PM PST by CFC__VRWC
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To: CHARLITE

Actually, I don't think the NY Times as changed their mind. Note that this article is about UN monitored WMD. The UN was aware of several stockpiles before the war and inspected them before they were kicked out. I think those stockpiles are what the article refers to.


7 posted on 03/13/2005 6:08:48 PM PST by Arkie2
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To: demlosers
F'ing Slimes, will they correct themselves in their editorials? I'm going to hold my breath now.

Where do we send the flowers?

8 posted on 03/13/2005 6:09:25 PM PST by CFC__VRWC
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To: CHARLITE

any links to the actual Slines article??


9 posted on 03/13/2005 6:09:56 PM PST by God luvs America (When the silent majority speaks the earth trembles!)
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To: Arkie2
Note that this article is about UN monitored WMD

Actually it's not even UN monitored WMD. It's UN monitored stuff that could be concievably be used to make WMDs, not actual WMDs.

Don't know if I have the patience to explain why Newsmax is hopelessly lost and clueless on this story.

10 posted on 03/13/2005 6:10:17 PM PST by Strategerist
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To: CHARLITE

I don't quite follow what Newsmax is saying.. the quotes don't seem to support the headline


11 posted on 03/13/2005 6:12:31 PM PST by nj26
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To: CFC__VRWC

LoL! I can't hold it as long as I use to. ;^)


12 posted on 03/13/2005 6:13:37 PM PST by demlosers (We win. They lose. USA number 1 ! IYAAYAS !)
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To: CHARLITE
This was simply the 'rest of the story' that never saw the 'media, 'light-of day'. It was part of the report.

The MSM got away with ignoring this; and it has passed the lips of every Demrat. The absence of WMD/s has made it -like every other Demrat lie - into MSM 'lore'; and our collective political history.

This misrepresentation was never seriously challenged by any Repub. . .even as Kerry Inc. repeated the abridged vesion of the truth, ad nauseum, throughout the presidential campaign.

Personally, blame Karl Rove and GW himself and the rest of the Repubs for not ever standing for the truth of this. . .except, occassionaly. . .and only, on one leg.

The NYT's report will pass; and the earlier, revised version of the truth will remain the core of Demrat offence. . .thanks to, too many Repubs; who perhaps thought, Rush could just tell the truth 'for' them. . .

13 posted on 03/13/2005 6:14:21 PM PST by cricket
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To: CHARLITE

My WAG ( wild ass guess) is that the removal of this stuff was a USA operation, carried out to a tee. See, it was bushes fault again!!!


14 posted on 03/13/2005 6:14:24 PM PST by Waco
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To: CHARLITE

bump


15 posted on 03/13/2005 6:15:37 PM PST by meema
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To: nj26
don't quite follow what Newsmax is saying.. the quotes don't seem to support the headline

The Newsmax headline doesn't remotely match what was in the NYT story. Because either:

1)Newsmax is too stupid to understand the story

2) They're deliberately lying about it.

The NYT story basically states that a variety of openly declared dual-use manufacturing facilities and materials that could conceivably be used to make WMDs (not ACTUAL weapons) that were regularly inspected by the UN prior to Gulf War II and were NOT in violation of any UN sanctions, AFTER Baghdad fell, were looted and sold abroad.

What Newsmax and various people who either haven't read the NYT article, or are trying to spin it to what they want to believe, are claiming is that the NYT is saying there were a bunch of secret illegal WMDs that Saddam shipped abroad right before the war. The NYT is absolutely not claiming this.

16 posted on 03/13/2005 6:15:40 PM PST by Strategerist
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To: CHARLITE

I don't know if you are familiar with what is called "The Bible Codes" or not, but it also has said the exact same thing as to where these WMD's went/are.


17 posted on 03/13/2005 6:16:12 PM PST by diverteach
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To: God luvs America
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/13/international/middleeast/13loot.html?ei=5094&en=e7534dd977e6dc08&hp=&ex=1110776400&adxnnl=1&partner=homepage&adxnnlx=1110765706-YVyubg/rW0nNSIYxa+IlUA
18 posted on 03/13/2005 6:18:24 PM PST by CHARLITE (Women are powerful; freedom is beautiful.........and STUPID IS FOREVER!)
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To: diverteach

I understand they also contain a killer recipe for Chicken Divan.


19 posted on 03/13/2005 6:19:13 PM PST by mcg1969
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To: CHARLITE

We attacked a nation without WMD - Bushs' fault!

We attacked a nation that had massive WMD but it was stolen as we got there -Bushes' fault!

We relyed on the lying scoundrels at the UN who told us that there was no WMD - Bushs' fault!

Neighboring rogue nations now have Iraq's WMD, and we're not going after it - Bushs' fault!

We haven't been able to suck up to Germany and France that transferred the WMD technology to Iraq for big Cash - Bushs' fault!

Afgan farmers who voted for democracy are still producing opium - Bushs' fault!

The six week old democracy in Iraq has not yet transferred all its power to whoever Iraq decides is going to be declared their leader - Bushs' fault!

Same old, same old, but now that after two years of the Slimes telling the world that there were no WMD, and everyone is on that bandwagon, the Slimes can now tell us that the Bush admin didn't lock-down all the WMD sites in the first few days of the war.

Bushs' fault!


20 posted on 03/13/2005 6:20:32 PM PST by aShepard
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To: nj26
>>>I don't quite follow what Newsmax is saying.. the quotes don't seem to support the headline<<<

It's only stockpiles of materials and equipment to make WMD's, not WMD's.

Please pay it no never mind - unimportant - move along - nothing to see here. No, there is no further clarification needed.

Wonder if Syria moving all its troops in Lebanon to the Bekka Valley has any significnace....probably not, just a hairbrained thought. I have them all the time.

21 posted on 03/13/2005 6:22:24 PM PST by HardStarboard (PASS)
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To: CHARLITE; Blue Screen of Death; guitar Josh; demlosers; Doe Eyes; CFC__VRWC; Arkie2; ...



Then why did Bush say, "We thought there were WMDS" during the debate with Kerry?


Political reasons?


22 posted on 03/13/2005 6:22:31 PM PST by LauraleeBraswell ( CONSERVATIVE FIRST-Republican second.)
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To: CHARLITE; Blue Screen of Death; guitar Josh; demlosers; Doe Eyes; CFC__VRWC; HardStarboard; ...

""It's only stockpiles of materials and equipment to make WMD's, not WMD's."" -HardStarboard

is that it?


23 posted on 03/13/2005 6:24:06 PM PST by LauraleeBraswell ( CONSERVATIVE FIRST-Republican second.)
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To: LauraleeBraswell

"Were" does not mean the president closed the door on WMDs being in Iraq just before the war.


24 posted on 03/13/2005 6:27:54 PM PST by demlosers (We win. They lose. USA number 1 ! IYAAYAS !)
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To: CHARLITE

With Syria likely to be moving completely out of Lebanon, these WMD`s and the plans that got them to where they now reside will no doubt be made public, and any news media who towed the " Bush lied " liberal party line will soon have egg on their faces.

Looks like the NYTimes might be pulling their baby wipes out early. : )


25 posted on 03/13/2005 6:32:52 PM PST by Peace will be here soon
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To: CHARLITE

thanks


26 posted on 03/13/2005 6:49:16 PM PST by God luvs America (When the silent majority speaks the earth trembles!)
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I am so sick of hearing this "sophisticated equipment used to manufacture nuclear weapons, and other things".

They are talking about low tolerance milling machines. There are companies in every industrialized city in the world that will do this for you. They are listed in the yellow pages. Give them a spec for a dumb metal flange part thing you want, and they will mill it and FedEx you the part back.

Everyone wants low tolerance parts (.1 mm, or whatever) because that makes the thing you are building generally have a higher quality (golf cart, sewing machine, washing machine, etc). Any metal shop would love to have one of these $1 million machines for a black market $50,000; which is why they were looted!

Read the New York Times article carefully. They have no evidence whatsoever that the stolen devices were not some milling machines and screwdrivers - THINGS USED TO PRODUCE NUCLEAR WEAPONS!!??!!!!

I can just imagine these NYT reporters yelling this stuff while they write the article.


27 posted on 03/13/2005 7:01:27 PM PST by captainblacksmith
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To: demlosers

I will bet a lot of money that there were sites that contained essential precision equipment and raw materials to make chemical, biological, and ...Yes...."nucular" weapons and missiles for delivery. President Bush and Secretary Powell did not lie. Kennedy really lied when he said Bush lied!

We will find out shortly that actual Iraqi weapons went to one of the Axis' allies. From there they were disrtibuted to other axis countries or put into safe-storage under guard.


28 posted on 03/13/2005 7:06:43 PM PST by NetValue (Be a democrat; oppose, lie, subvert, obstruct , and sabotage progress and ideals in America.)
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To: diverteach

"I don't know if you are familiar with what is called "The Bible Codes" or not, but it also has said the exact same thing as to where these WMD's went/are."

I just Googled "the Bible Codes" and found this interesting article entitled "WMD from Iraq Matrix" - it is a PDF file that requires adobe:

http://www.biblecodes.us/pages/WMDinIraqarticle.pdf


29 posted on 03/13/2005 7:09:56 PM PST by sdcraigo (Let Freedom Ring!!!...)
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To: captainblacksmith

So why do you need a special permit to ship stuff like this out of the US?
Yeah, modern CAD/CAM machine tools are as good as the stuff used to make the bombs that we dropped on Japan. But you still can't build something like a nuke or a jet engine or a rocket motor without this type of sophisticated tooling- the same kind France and Germany are selling to anybody with the coin.
Saddam took a page out of Joe Stalin's book and disassembled his WMD factories and moved them out of harm's way.


30 posted on 03/13/2005 7:10:21 PM PST by Ostlandr (Ich liebe alles der Juden und Schwarzen. Ich hast alles der Weissenvolk.)
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To: CHARLITE

Anyone doubt this is why Syria pulled tneir troops in Lebanon back to the Bekka Valley, and no further?

At least, until they can remove what they hid there to a new safe haven?


31 posted on 03/13/2005 7:12:36 PM PST by ApplegateRanch (The world needs more horses, and fewer Jackasses!)
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To: Strategerist
What Newsmax and various people who either haven't read the NYT article, or are trying to spin it to what they want to believe, are claiming is that the NYT is saying there were a bunch of secret illegal WMDs that Saddam shipped abroad right before the war. The NYT is absolutely not claiming this.

I'm not sure we read the same article. There were chemical and biological facilities whose guts were transported out of Iraq during the initial war. What am I missing?

32 posted on 03/13/2005 7:14:35 PM PST by groanup (http://www.fairtax.org)
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To: captainblacksmith

""
Read the New York Times article carefully. They have no evidence whatsoever that the stolen devices were not some milling machines and screwdrivers - THINGS USED TO PRODUCE NUCLEAR WEAPONS!!??!!!!"""

Too many double negatives, cannot process this information.


33 posted on 03/13/2005 7:22:19 PM PST by LauraleeBraswell ( CONSERVATIVE FIRST-Republican second.)
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To: CHARLITE
So, this knocks the whole "Bush lied" meme into a cocked hat?

Oh, never mind.

34 posted on 03/13/2005 7:22:20 PM PST by white trash redneck (Everything I needed to know about Islam I learned on 9-11-01.)
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To: sdcraigo


can't upload. Do you have a better link.


35 posted on 03/13/2005 7:23:09 PM PST by LauraleeBraswell ( CONSERVATIVE FIRST-Republican second.)
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To: LauraleeBraswell
See my post #18. If it isn't "clickable," try copying it and pasting it into your browser window.

Char:)

36 posted on 03/13/2005 7:26:37 PM PST by CHARLITE (Women are powerful; freedom is beautiful.........and STUPID IS FOREVER!)
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To: CHARLITE


I'm suprised the NYT covered this?!


37 posted on 03/13/2005 7:32:29 PM PST by LauraleeBraswell ( CONSERVATIVE FIRST-Republican second.)
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To: Strategerist
The NYT story basically states that a variety of openly declared dual-use manufacturing facilities and materials that could conceivably be used to make WMDs (not ACTUAL weapons) that were regularly inspected by the UN prior to Gulf War II and were NOT in violation of any UN sanctions,

Well that's the slime's and I guess your spin, but the fact is since the inspectors were kicked out in 1998 and weren't allowed back in Iraq until we had troops massed on their border there was absolutely no "regular inspection".

And the fact is much of this equipment was really specifically designed for weapon manufacture, such as machines to build shaped explosive charges for nuclear warheads. The truth is this equipment was listed and watched because it did violate the ceasefire that ended the Gulf War, it's just that the UN never made Saddam destroy it.

The article is written to point out the fact that while the HYT knew these materials where in Iraq, they never mentioned them in there drive to slam President Bush and the Coalition of the Willing. Now they think they can slam him because that stuff wasn't our top priority, when the truth is if the UN had done their job that stuff would have been destroyed years before.

38 posted on 03/13/2005 7:40:45 PM PST by federal
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To: CHARLITE

Recently, it has been stated by several people in the admin that Russia moved the WMD out of Iraq into Syria.

There was no balking by Russia. I do believe - when Dr. Rice went to Russia she told Putin - in Russian - we are going to reveal that you moved the WMD.

I agree - the NYT sources knew - but it didn't fit their agenda.


39 posted on 03/13/2005 8:14:40 PM PST by CyberAnt (President Bush: "America is the greatest nation on the face of the earth")
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To: demlosers

The former PM Allawi said in a recent interview that the people who took the elements out of the nuke facility - did so with precision - knowing exactly what to take and removing it carefully.

I believe that would have been Russia's doing prior to the war.


40 posted on 03/13/2005 8:16:43 PM PST by CyberAnt (President Bush: "America is the greatest nation on the face of the earth")
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To: CFC__VRWC

"the stuff is just about to turn up"

Well .. if Syria finally leaves Lebanon - the Bakaa Valley will be open for us to look - I presume we will be allowed in there. Maybe the NYT figured that out too and decided they better get with the program before it gets revealed and they are left with more egg on their face.


41 posted on 03/13/2005 8:24:25 PM PST by CyberAnt (President Bush: "America is the greatest nation on the face of the earth")
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To: CFC__VRWC
Either the stuff is just about to turn up and the Slimes is attempting a little CYA, or else they're getting ready to hammer President Bush and Donald Rumsfeld about letting the WMDs fall into terrorist hands

guessing that some UN folks tipped them that something is coming down the pipe. maybe even monday.

42 posted on 03/13/2005 8:34:03 PM PST by alrea (Now toilet paper? Taxes are already wiping out US businesses.)
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To: captainblacksmith
I am so sick of hearing this "sophisticated equipment used to manufacture nuclear weapons, and other things". They are talking about low tolerance milling machines. There are companies in every industrialized city in the world that will do this for you. They are listed in the yellow pages. Give them a spec for a dumb metal flange part thing you want, and they will mill it and FedEx you the part back. Everyone wants low tolerance parts (.1 mm, or whatever) because that makes the thing you are building generally have a higher quality (golf cart, sewing machine, washing machine, etc). Any metal shop would love to have one of these $1 million machines for a black market $50,000; which is why they were looted!

Exactly right -

43 posted on 03/13/2005 8:38:37 PM PST by SevenMinusOne
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To: CHARLITE

Check this link out for some interesting reading. http://www.worldthreats.com/middle_east/Syria.htm

All of this would explain why syria is pulling back to the bekka to wait and see what happens. Still far to early to know if syria will be shoved out of all of Lebanon.


44 posted on 03/13/2005 8:39:10 PM PST by Eagles6 (Dig deeper, more ammo.)
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To: CHARLITE

Not too long after Tom Moorer died, General Gordon Sumner and I submitted an article pointing out this obvious fact to Tony Blankley at the Wash. Times. After an initial positive reaction from one of his assistants, we heard no more. Apparently, there was no interest in this obvious truth. The conservative establishment that has grown up is in some ways as impervious to truth as the liberal establishment.


45 posted on 03/14/2005 6:30:54 AM PST by AmericanVictory (Should we be more like them, or they like us?)
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To: LauraleeBraswell
>>>is that it?<<<

Perhaps I should have put the tag of "{/sarcasm}" after my comments for those of you who take everything very literally.

46 posted on 03/14/2005 9:45:33 AM PST by HardStarboard (PASS)
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To: CHARLITE

It also makes Syria's pullout of Lebanon sort of interesting.

What, in fact, did Syria do of late: pulled back to the Bekaa Valley, then withdrew into Syria.

Why stop in the Bekaa Valley?


47 posted on 03/14/2005 9:48:48 AM PST by RinaseaofDs (The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.)
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To: captainblacksmith

It's hard to loot something like this unless you have the equipment to trasport it. On top of that, the 'metal shop' that has one of these can't exactly advertise the fact in the yellow pages.


48 posted on 03/14/2005 11:47:36 AM PST by RinaseaofDs (The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.)
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To: CHARLITE

Thanks for the link


49 posted on 03/14/2005 3:43:15 PM PST by village idiot
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To: captainblacksmith
Everyone wants low tolerance parts (.1 mm, or whatever) because that makes the thing you are building generally have a higher quality (golf cart, sewing machine, washing machine, etc)

No they don't. Low tolerances generally make for more expensive machining and thus more expensive parts. You can get back some of that by a reduction of "fitting" during assembly and make make the basic design easier. OTOH, most Soviet military equipment was designed to use high tolerance parts, and to function with very loose fitting parts.

50 posted on 03/14/2005 6:59:17 PM PST by El Gato (Activist Judges can twist the Constitution into anything they want ... or so they think.)
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