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Who really won the Ann Coulter-Peter Beinart debate at Tufts University?
The Tufts Daily ^ | March 14, 2005 | Ashley Samelson

Posted on 03/14/2005 7:53:10 PM PST by rface

...she opened with a statement referring to Clinton as a "horny hick." Such spiteful and subjective comments brought laughter from the audience but did nothing to strengthen her opposing argument......I went home that night and tore my Bush-Cheney sticker off my door, and took my Bush "Taking America forward" pin off my bulletin board. I no longer consider myself a Republican, or even a conservative

Wednesday's (March 9th) intellectual exchange between Ann Coulter and Peter Beinart was both stimulating and disappointing, but above all, it was quite unsettling.

Both candidates had significant strengths, and they were surely worthy opponents. And it is always a privilege to witness such free exchange of discourse. However, while the debate was feisty and witty, I was left with an overall disturbing sense of deep hatred and political regression.

Beinart, editor of The New Republic (liberal), relied on many facts, figures and statistics, giving his argument an objective strength. Coulter did not respond with as many tangible figures, weakening her position. Beinhart's weakness, however, lay in his inability to keep the argument impersonal. He directed numerous insults at Coulter, most of which were completely irrelevant to the discussion topic.

This reflected the greatest strength of Coulter. She began her opening statements with praise for Beinart. She lauded him as a worthy opponent, a future leader of his party, and a man of great intellect. Beinart did no such thing. Coulter maintained her composure upon the assailment of numerous attacks and withheld from personal retorts completely. In one of her earlier books, "Slander," Coulter argues that liberals cannot debate without using personal insult as a tool, and Beinart certainly proved her point. She prevailed, in my opinion, as the classier of the two in her ability to maintain the purity of the debate without stooping to personally insult her fellow debater.

However, although Coulter was able to abstain from attacking Beinart, she was unable to debate without using vindictive commentary about others. In response to Beinart's factual discussion of Bill Clinton's presidency and what made it so great, she opened with a statement referring to Clinton as a "horny hick." Such spiteful and subjective comments brought laughter from the audience but did nothing to strengthen her opposing argument.

The lesson that both debaters desperately need to learn is that the very essence of debate is objectivity. The purpose of debate is to match facts, reason, and logic to find the ultimate truth that lies within the framework of the debate topic. It is not about who can coin the wittiest one-liners or appeal emotionally to the most people. It is certainly not about who can draw the most laughter or the loudest applause from the audience. The exchange between the two arguers was entertaining, but fell quite short of debate. The atmosphere in Cabot was that of a show, not a serious discussion.

What was most disappointing and indeed quite disturbing was the reaction of the Tufts audience. There was booing and shouting. Afterwards, I overheard a girl say that "people like her [Coulter] should not be allowed to write books," and the comment was received with emphatic agreement. Albeit a comment made in jest, the feeling of hatred in the debate room made it eerie and made my night walk home much darker.

Another girl made a profanity-laden statement that Coulter is a "neo-nazi." I would challenge her to think more carefully about what exactly neo-nazism entails, and when and where exactly Coulter has fit that highly offensive profile before being so boldly accusatory.

Finally, I heard Coulter referred to as a "nutcase" more than once. If that is true, then she is certainly a nutcase in high demand with several popular books, and one who can gracefully hold her own in a room full of hate.

Above all, this debate cast a shadow on my vision of America's political future. While I fully embrace the freedom of discourse and encourage it wholeheartedly, I believe these highly partisan debates can bring nothing but regression. They breed hate and further solidify political schisms. They make people cry out for censorship. They work in no way towards understanding. How much longer can America stand if its most educated citizens are so deeply divided by misunderstanding and hate?

Every great power has unknowingly induced its own demise. My fear is that Abraham Lincoln has already foreseen ours with his statement that "a house divided against itself cannot stand." My genuine plea to fellow believers in the human mind is to throw off self-righteous mantles of partisanship and to work instead towards a more progressive dialogue. Let us make Tufts a birthplace of objective communication in a world of such disarray. Objectivity is the human's only key to truth and provides the only framework within real progress can be sought.

I went home that night and tore my Bush-Cheney sticker off my door, and took my Bush "Taking America forward" pin off my bulletin board. I no longer consider myself a Republican, or even a conservative. From this day forward I choose the path of true progress. Consider me an objectivist.

Ashley Samelson is a sophomore who has yet to declare a major.


TOPICS: News/Current Events; US: Massachusetts
KEYWORDS: beinart; campuscommies; coulter; dirtyrats; dropjournalism; filthyrats; peterbeinart; rats; sorelosers; tuftsaintharvard
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The lesson that both debaters desperately need to learn is that the very essence of debate is objectivity. .....maybe 50 years ago this was true

sometimes you have to call a Horney Hick a horney hick.....(I was born in West Virginia ---- maybe I am a horney hick too)

I suspect that this author is writing from her heart, and is not writing for an audience, because I don't think she knows who her audience is anymore. I guess I am sorry that she is dissapointed or disillusioned. Her vision of partisian debate is way naive. I guess I am sorry to see her pristine idealism shattered

1 posted on 03/14/2005 7:53:12 PM PST by rface
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To: rface
Don't let the door hit ya on what is most likely a wide load....
2 posted on 03/14/2005 7:55:30 PM PST by rockrr (Revote or Revolt! It's up to you Washington!)
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To: rface
The lesson that both debaters desperately need to learn is that the very essence of debate is objectivity.

scratchin my head...isn't it subjective ?
3 posted on 03/14/2005 7:55:35 PM PST by stylin19a (I will become a Democrat on my deathbed....better one of them dies than a good Republican)
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To: rface
"I went home that night and tore my Bush-Cheney sticker off my door, and took my Bush "Taking America forward" pin off my bulletin board. I no longer consider myself a Republican, or even a conservative. From this day forward I choose the path of true progress. Consider me an objectivist."

Based on reading this whole article, I think the author is full of manure. She was not a Republican if one bad speaking engagement was enough to "turn" her.

4 posted on 03/14/2005 7:56:46 PM PST by Darkwolf377 (Rs move icebergs out of the way; Ds throw deck chairs off the Titanic.)
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To: rface
while the debate was feisty and witty, I was left with an overall disturbing sense of deep hatred and political regression.

The polite political debates in the vein of WF Buckley's Firing Line are ancient history, I'm afraid.

5 posted on 03/14/2005 7:57:48 PM PST by Mr. Mojo
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To: rface

"I went home that night and tore my Bush-Cheney sticker off my door, and took my Bush "Taking America forward" pin off my bulletin board. I no longer consider myself a Republican, or even a conservative."

Baloney alert. This "writer" would have us believe she threw an entire party and philosophy away because Coulter called Clinton a "horny-hick".


6 posted on 03/14/2005 7:58:43 PM PST by Bob J (RIGHTALK.com...a conservative alternative to NPR!)
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To: rface

"I went home that night and tore my Bush-Cheney sticker off my door, and took my Bush "Taking America forward" pin off my bulletin board. I no longer consider myself a Republican, or even a conservative."



Was the writer truely conservative to begin with or is this the typical "I'm a lifelong republican.......but " shtick?


7 posted on 03/14/2005 7:58:48 PM PST by cripplecreek (I'm apathetic but really don't care.)
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To: rface
I went home that night and tore my Bush-Cheney sticker off my door, and took my Bush "Taking America forward" pin off my bulletin board. I no longer consider myself a Republican, or even a conservative. From this day forward I choose the path of true progress. Consider me an objectivist.

Huh? Hell, I'm not a Republican, but why would an Ann Coulter appearance motivate a Bush supporter to lose it? Something is very, very odd about this author's motivations. Was this author operating under the assumption that Ann was some shrinking violet? This doesn't make any sense. She sounds so weak. Ann's views are news to her? Huh?

Me confused.

8 posted on 03/14/2005 7:58:52 PM PST by zoyd (I'm with the government. We're going to make you like your neighbor.)
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To: rface

Anyone believe that the author actually had pro-Bush/Cheney bumper stickers and pins?

And if so, do you actually believe that she abandoned them because Ann called Clinton a "horny hick?"

If she really is the Republican voter that she claims to be, I find her lack of faith disturbing.


9 posted on 03/14/2005 7:59:33 PM PST by Vision Thing (The Surgeon General has determined that being Democrat is bad for your health.)
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To: rface

Ashley, Good! I dont want you in MY Party, You cry-Baby!

How long? HOW LONG???? Have the demoRATS trashed US? You are an Ignorant Child. You haven't lived long enough to understand what ROTTEN SCUM LIberals are....

Ann Coulter is a Fantastic Speaker and She only makes those statements to enrage the arrogant elitest snobs of the Left especially in Universitys!!!! If you got upset, it only proves you are weak in your position and havent got the stomach for the real Political battles ahead...you would be better served as a whimpy sheep in the Left wing Plantation.....good luck to you...they will be serving Prozac for lunch today and then you can have a nice nap this afternoon.

Buh-Bye!


10 posted on 03/14/2005 7:59:44 PM PST by LtKerst (Lt Kerst)
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To: rface

"Ashley Samelson is a sophomore who has yet to declare a major."

Hehehehehe...says it all.


11 posted on 03/14/2005 8:00:04 PM PST by sam_whiskey (Peace through Strength)
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To: rface
"I went home that night and tore my Bush-Cheney sticker off my door, and took my Bush "Taking America forward" pin off my bulletin board. I no longer consider myself a Republican, or even a conservative.

Thats just silly. Coulter is a writer and a bomb-thrower - thats her style. Would you ditch the Dems b/c of something Susan Estrich said? LOL.

12 posted on 03/14/2005 8:00:45 PM PST by Fenris6 (3 Purple Hearts in 4 months w/o missing a day of work? He's either John Rambo or a Fraud)
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To: rface
She ripped the Bush-Cheney sticker off her door and no longer considers herself a Republican/conservative because she doesn't like the debating style of one person.

Her "conservatism" stood on shaky ground, to put it mildly.

13 posted on 03/14/2005 8:01:02 PM PST by Mr. Mojo
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To: Darkwolf377
-From this day forward I choose the path of true progress. Consider me an objectivist."

Yeah, yeah, yeah. The only viable political party that even remotely has any "objectivist" ideals is the GOP.
14 posted on 03/14/2005 8:01:15 PM PST by motzman (to the funny farm, where life is beautiful all the time.....)
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To: rface

"I went home that night and tore my Bush-Cheney sticker off my door, and took my Bush "Taking America forward" pin off my bulletin board. I no longer consider myself a Republican, or even a conservative. From this day forward I choose the path of true progress. Consider me an objectivist. "

====


Be serious, if she was ever a Republican and ever had a Bush-Cheney sticker on her door, I'll eat my keyboard.

I've seen quite a few liberals, who pretend to be disillusioned conservatives to gain credibility.


15 posted on 03/14/2005 8:01:34 PM PST by FairOpinion (It is better to light a candle, than curse the darkness.)
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To: rface
...she opened with a statement referring to Clinton as a "horny hick."

But, Ms. Samelson, if Bill Clinton was not a "horny hick", then what, pray tell, was he?

Of course, it's demeaning and deeply pejorative. But isn't that what he was? How else would one characterize Bill Clinton?

16 posted on 03/14/2005 8:01:36 PM PST by okie01 (A slavering moron and proud member of the lynch mob, cleaning the Augean stables of MSM since 1998.)
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To: rface

Ashley has yet to declare a major, but has declared a party, in fact proclaims to have declared a party, rejected a party, and picked up another party. I'm guessing she doesn't have a clue.


17 posted on 03/14/2005 8:01:49 PM PST by Imnotalib (Go Howard Dean: "We aren't changing!")
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To: rface

Liberals don't like Ann Coulter because she plays by their rules.


18 posted on 03/14/2005 8:01:55 PM PST by buckeyesrule
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To: rface
The lesson that both debaters desperately need to learn is that the very essence of debate is objectivity.

Actually, in trouncing the US in televised debates over and over (a few years back) the British showed that sharp humor is what wins the debate.

19 posted on 03/14/2005 8:02:01 PM PST by Chaguito
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To: rface
They breed hate and further solidify political schisms. They make people cry out for censorship

She tore down her poster of Che too because she was so mad.
20 posted on 03/14/2005 8:02:23 PM PST by John Lenin (Abortion has created lots of atheists because no one wants to go to hell)
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To: rface
They breed hate and further solidify political schisms. They make people leftists cry out for censorship

She tore down her poster of Che too because she was so mad.
21 posted on 03/14/2005 8:02:51 PM PST by John Lenin (Abortion has created lots of atheists because no one wants to go to hell)
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To: rface
Ashley Samelson is a sophomore who has yet to declare a major.

This tells me everything I need to know.

22 posted on 03/14/2005 8:04:21 PM PST by writer33 ("In Defense of Liberty," a political thriller, being released in March)
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To: rface

Objective? I thought you were to debate the merits of your position, not be objective like perhaps and audience member could be.

The author if this piece is kind of pathetic.


23 posted on 03/14/2005 8:04:37 PM PST by A CA Guy (God Bless America, God bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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To: FairOpinion
Did you see her closing sentences?

"From this day forward I choose the path of true progress. Consider me an objectivist."

I think we know what she really was and is: a Progressive, which is really the codeword for a liberal who does not have the balls to embrace the 'liberal' label.

24 posted on 03/14/2005 8:06:05 PM PST by Vision Thing (The Surgeon General has determined that being Democrat is bad for your health.)
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To: rface
I went home that night and tore my Bush-Cheney sticker off my door, and took my Bush "Taking America forward" pin off my bulletin board. I no longer consider myself a Republican, or even a conservative. From this day forward I choose the path of true progress. Consider me an objectivist.

It's highly unlikely that Ashley is or ever was a conservative

Ashley Samelson is a sophomore who has yet to declare a major.

Well, she's young yet so there's still hope.

25 posted on 03/14/2005 8:06:38 PM PST by jla
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To: rface
Consider me an objectivist.

Objective people can disagree with each other.

26 posted on 03/14/2005 8:06:48 PM PST by oldbrowser (What really matters is culture, ethos, character, and morality)
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Comment #27 Removed by Moderator

To: motzman
Agreed. The GOP is far from perfect, but I find these people annoying as hell. Its kind of a "don't blame me, I'm neither dem or republican" pose that is just so lame.

No one here is perfectly happy with their party. Sulking in the comfortable corner of a political philosophy that has no participation in the current political sphere is the fashionably cool pose of college rebels. But I don't have to respect it as being anything but what it is: A cop-out.

(Pause while the "Oh yeah, well the Republicans were a minoriity party once!" fussilade falls)

Objectivism is a fine idea, the right's socialism, really, where all those idealists who won't accept anything but an unreachable perfection can join and feel elite and above it all. But it's no more reality than basing one's view of the world on Star Trek utopian dreams would be. I live in the real world, and have no time for those who don't and expect everyone to fawn over them for it.

28 posted on 03/14/2005 8:07:42 PM PST by Darkwolf377 (Rs move icebergs out of the way; Ds throw deck chairs off the Titanic.)
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To: rface

"Ashley Samelson is a sophomore who has yet to declare a major."

Seems she wishy-washy in more ways than one!


29 posted on 03/14/2005 8:08:45 PM PST by torchthemummy ("Terrorism has less to do with economic poverty than with political poverty." - Jane Novak)
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To: dcuddeback

I think we are experiencing a Ward Churchill moment with this faker.


30 posted on 03/14/2005 8:08:45 PM PST by John Lenin (Abortion has created lots of atheists because no one wants to go to hell)
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To: stylin19a
scratchin my head...isn't it subjective ?

Don't confuse her.

31 posted on 03/14/2005 8:09:38 PM PST by AndrewC (Darwinian logic -- It is just-so if it is just-so)
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To: rface

Well, people have already pointed out that it's extremely doubtful that she had Bush/Cheney stickers to tear off, and that she's a flake who can't make up her mind.

I'm not sure if I hold the name "Ashley" against her, because I know several nice girls named Ashley. But it's tempting.


32 posted on 03/14/2005 8:10:19 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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Comment #33 Removed by Moderator

To: Darkwolf377

"Consider me an objectivist."

She likes speakers that repetitively drone on for 80 pages.


34 posted on 03/14/2005 8:11:06 PM PST by Larry Lucido
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To: rface
throw off self-righteous mantles of partisanship and to work instead towards a more progressive dialogue.

This is pretty deluded even for a college sophomore. I find it difficult to believe she was genuinely conservative and because of this "debate" abandoned her beliefs.

When she has lived a little longer and has more experience she may see that whenever conservatives try to "work instead towards a more progressive dialogue" they get back stabbed by the liberals. Case in point, Teddy (aka The Swimmer) Kennedy and the "education" bill. Bush foolishly lets him write it and then right after its passage, The Swimmer goes out and trashes Bush and the bill. And nobody in the MSM calls him on it.

One does not have a "dialog" with the left. One defeats them in the arena of ideas, at the ballot box and anywhere else necessary.

Simply put, it is redundant to refer to politics as partisan. And naive to think that it should be anything else.

35 posted on 03/14/2005 8:11:12 PM PST by ChildOfThe60s (If you can remember the 60's.....you weren't really there.)
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To: rface
"I went home that night and tore my Bush-Cheney sticker off my door, and took my Bush "Taking America forward" pin off my bulletin board. I no longer consider myself a Republican, or even a conservative."

Later, tard...
36 posted on 03/14/2005 8:11:18 PM PST by Texas_Jarhead
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To: rface

Ann is old enough to be my mom, I think, but geez, she's so hot.


37 posted on 03/14/2005 8:13:35 PM PST by Tiemieshooz
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To: rface

"The lesson that both debaters desperately need to learn is that the very essence of debate is objectivity."

I wonder how many best selling books Ashley Sampson has written.

We won't have to worry about partisanship too much longer since the Dimocrat Party is in an accelerating death spiral, should impact the ground in about 6 - 8 months. We'll be a much better country and another political organization will fill the void.


38 posted on 03/14/2005 8:13:55 PM PST by Chu Gary (USN Intel guy 1967 - 1970)
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To: A CA Guy

OK - so I am gullible and I want to give a pretty name the benefit of the doubt.....so now every single post has stated that Ashley Samelson is about as conservative as ..... hmmmm......Hillary Clinton? Sheeeesh. I am a softy


39 posted on 03/14/2005 8:14:02 PM PST by rface ("...the most schizoid freeper I've ever seen" - Ashland, Missouri)
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To: rface
I went home that night and tore my Bush-Cheney sticker off my door

Good news is she left the Kerry/Edwards sticker on her Bumper! Ann Rox!!

Pray for W and Our Troops

40 posted on 03/14/2005 8:15:32 PM PST by bray (Iraq has political Freedom, now Pray for Religious Freedom)
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To: rface
I went home that night and tore my Bush-Cheney sticker off my door, and took my Bush "Taking America forward" pin off my bulletin board. I no longer consider myself a Republican, or even a conservative. From this day forward I choose the path of true progress. Consider me an objectivist.

Sorry, I'm not buying it.

A real Republican or a real conservative would never be driven away by a commentator they have disagreement with. I'm not a big fan of Coulter myself. Sometimes I like what she has to say, other times decisively not. I haven't picked up my toys and headed home.

The Republican Party is not defined solely by one member among millions. The conservative movement is not even defined by a person, but an ideology. If she had really been either she'd never break ties over a disagreement of style with Coulter.

41 posted on 03/14/2005 8:16:09 PM PST by Soul Seeker
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To: Cicero

you have found my truest weakness ..... the name "Ashley". You have looked at the evidence and have found me out. I am a softy for the name "Ashley". It is true. I have, now, face the truth. Ashley is not a conservative - no matter how bad I want her to be.


42 posted on 03/14/2005 8:17:09 PM PST by rface ("...the most schizoid freeper I've ever seen" - Ashland, Missouri)
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To: rface
Ashley Samelson is a sophomore who has yet to declare a major.

Hee-hee. We haven't had such insights since Amy Carter, at 12, gave us her opinions on nuclear weapons.

43 posted on 03/14/2005 8:17:16 PM PST by speekinout
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To: Larry Lucido
"She likes speakers that repetitively drone on for 80 pages."

LOL!!!

She knows she can get some quality sleep during those monologues.

44 posted on 03/14/2005 8:17:31 PM PST by Darkwolf377 (Rs move icebergs out of the way; Ds throw deck chairs off the Titanic.)
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To: rface

"OK - so I am gullible and I want to give a pretty name the benefit of the doubt"


I just have a hard time believing that she could see one bad debate and throw her ideals away because of it. After all Bush and the republicans did nothing in this debate yet she takes it out on them. I'm not Coulters biggest fan either but that won't cause me to attack republicans.


45 posted on 03/14/2005 8:18:07 PM PST by cripplecreek (I'm apathetic but really don't care.)
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To: rface
[ I went home that night and tore my Bush-Cheney sticker off my door, and took my Bush "Taking America forward" pin off my bulletin board. I no longer consider myself a Republican, or even a conservative ]

Spoken like a lyin democrat skank...
Never happened.. Ann must've got her GOOD... To bring out this much of a vindictive smoke screen..

46 posted on 03/14/2005 8:18:50 PM PST by hosepipe (This Propaganda has been edited to include not a small amount of Hyperbole..)
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To: Tiemieshooz
Ann is old enough to be my mom, I think, but geez, she's so hot.

settle down there Marine

47 posted on 03/14/2005 8:19:34 PM PST by rface ("...the most schizoid freeper I've ever seen" - Ashland, Missouri)
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To: rface

Hey... at least she called him a Horney hick and not something else.


48 posted on 03/14/2005 8:21:03 PM PST by SandRat (Duty, Honor, Country. What else needs to be said?)
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To: okie01

"How else would one characterize Bill Clinton?"

What was the song phrase? "Let me count the ways" - was that it? Perjurer, Conspirator, Murderer, Rapist, Thief, Coke addict, and on and on.


49 posted on 03/14/2005 8:22:30 PM PST by Chu Gary (USN Intel guy 1967 - 1970)
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To: Darkwolf377

The sophomoric writer of the article was never a Republican or conservative.

She is a liar, though.


50 posted on 03/14/2005 8:22:59 PM PST by little jeremiah (Resisting evil is our duty or we are as responsible as those promoting it)
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