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On the Reservation, U.S. Indians Debate Gay Unions
Reuters ^ | March 18 | Adam Tanner

Posted on 03/19/2005 9:09:11 PM PST by metalmanx2j

SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - On American Indian reservations, some tribes are debating whether they should embrace gay marriage or shun such unions as an affront to family values.

The controversy in these often-ignored sovereign territories within the United States comes as Americans in general are divided, often bitterly, over same-sex weddings. The controversy made headlines again this week as a judge ruled that California's ban on gay marriage is unconstitutional.

"What goes on in Indian nations now is a microcosm of what is going on across the country," said David Cornsilk, a Cherokee representing two lesbians in the most prominent case before an American Indian court.

The latest California ruling also came weeks after a legislator in Navajo Nation, the largest and most populous Indian reservation, called for a ban on gay marriage.

Scholars of homosexuality in Indian culture say Native Americans traditionally tolerated gay behavior, an attitude that shifted after the Europeans arrived in North America.

"American Indians firmly believe from forever that procreation was essential for survival, but you could play with anybody," said Lester Brown, author of "Two Spirit People: American Indian Lesbian Women and Gay Men."

"Christianity ruined a lot of it," said Brown, a Cherokee. "The religious groups that were trying to proselytize with the Indians could not accept those different people."

GAY CASE BEFORE CHEROKEE COURT

Brown's tribe is engaged in a court fight parallel to those taking place in California and elsewhere in the nation. The Cherokee case arose after a lesbian couple obtained a tribal marriage application last year, only to have the Cherokee Nation ban gay marriage and refuse to recognize the union.

Cornsilk, who will argue the case before the Cherokee's top court, said the California decision could paradoxically make his efforts to win acceptance more difficult because of conservative sentiment in the American Midwest.

"All of the effect all of these cases have had is to simply calcify resistance," he said by telephone from Tulsa, Oklahoma. "They see both sides of the country, both the East and West Coast, as liberal and not representative of mainstream America."

Voters in many U.S. states have recently approved measures against gay marriage, while one state, Massachusetts, became the only U.S. state to allow same-sex marriage last year.

Cornsilk, who is gay, said historical documents suggest a group of Indian men married each other in 1825. The Cherokee Tribal Council will hold a hearing on the issue on March 24, he said.

In Navajo Nation in the Southwest, the proposal to ban gay marriage has sparked a flurry of letters to the editor in the local Navajo Times newspaper.

"Like all indigenous tribes and ancient civilizations, homosexuality is a third gender, and marriage was for everyone," Collestipher Chatto wrote. "But sadly, many of the Dine (Navajo) people are corrupted by the Western beliefs and Christianity, causing many natives to view gays as perverted or sodomites."

Robert Williams, a University of Arizona professor of law and American Indian studies, said as sovereign nations tribes can set their own family rules, so they could ban or allow gay marriage.

"I've heard proposals going both ways," said Williams, who also serves as a supreme court justice for two tribes. In family law "state law cannot apply, will not apply."

Joe Shirley Jr., president of the 300,000-strong Navajo Nation, took a cautious approach when asked about the issue at a press conference in Window Rock, Arizona last week.

"I don't think it is an issue to be handled on the part of the administration, it's a people issue," he said. "If anything is going to be had about gay marriages here in Navajo Land, give it to the people, let the people decide on what the stance is going to be on like-people marriages."

The Navajo people recently approved casino gambling in a voter referendum.

Some U.S. politicians say constituents have lobbied them to urge local tribes to permit gay marriage.

"I had quite a few people call me and say, 'Why don't you talk to the tribes about that,"' Ron Oden, the openly gay mayor of Palm Springs, California, told Reuters.

Yet he did not expect tribes would quickly extend such recognition as they are already fighting a public relations battle over the growth of Indian casinos. "The last things the tribes want is to get more controversy," Oden said.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: americanindians; cherokee; cherokeenation; homosexualagenda; navajo; samesexmarriage
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1 posted on 03/19/2005 9:09:11 PM PST by metalmanx2j
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To: metalmanx2j

If they legalize gay marriages, it won't be peace pipes being smoked at Indian casino hotels. On the bright side, the headdresses will come in coordinated pastel colors.


2 posted on 03/19/2005 9:13:17 PM PST by peyton randolph (Warning! It is illegal to fatwah a camel in all 50 states)
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To: metalmanx2j

This will help their numbers.... how??


3 posted on 03/19/2005 9:14:16 PM PST by SteveMcKing
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To: SteveMcKing

The village people strike agian


4 posted on 03/19/2005 9:20:57 PM PST by John Will
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To: metalmanx2j
Well, this isn't a biased article is it? Evil Christians. Bad Europeans corrupting the rainbow people that worshiped crystals and hugged dear and bears and such.
Liberals never talk about how Native Americans considered warriors the greatest members of their tribes. I never see anything about how they waged war on each other. I remember reading about how the plains Indians were considered the best light Calvary in the world. I guess they were fighting to protect gay marriage.
5 posted on 03/19/2005 9:20:57 PM PST by IrishCatholic (No local communist or socialist party chapter? Join the Democrats, it's the same thing.)
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To: metalmanx2j
Oh that's just great, Homo Injuns.

The upside is it makes watching the Western channel and John Wayne killing injuns more enjoyable.

6 posted on 03/19/2005 9:21:23 PM PST by benjaminjjones
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To: IrishCatholic
This is a truly pathetic article as far as I am concerned. It is extremely biased. I posted to show how pathetic the gay "fight" has become--not that it was ever noble or righteous to begin with.
7 posted on 03/19/2005 9:27:20 PM PST by metalmanx2j (Conservative first...Republican second.)
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To: metalmanx2j

There have always been "gays"(queers) in Indian tribes in past history, however there were no such thing as "Gay Marriage". (two queers getting legally married with the sanction of the tribe)


8 posted on 03/19/2005 9:29:49 PM PST by fish hawk (The best thing about the "Vast Right Wing Conspiracy" is : it is Vast and it is Right Wing.)
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To: metalmanx2j

"historical documents suggest"

i did not know that documents could talk

let alone make suggestions

perhaps its only historical documents that have this ability


9 posted on 03/19/2005 9:35:31 PM PST by kralcmot (save us all, fight for Terri's right to Life)
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To: metalmanx2j

I guess we'll never know what they did with their pee-pee in the tee-pee. But I seriously doubt that there are any documents proving that those Commanche warriors were taking honeymoons together.


10 posted on 03/19/2005 9:37:19 PM PST by speedy
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To: metalmanx2j

Gay unions? Would that be AFL,CIO, or Teamsters?


11 posted on 03/19/2005 9:39:44 PM PST by exit82 (You see, I've been to the desert on a horse with no name--then I found FreeRepublic.)
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To: exit82

All of the above.


12 posted on 03/19/2005 10:04:38 PM PST by clee1 (We use 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 2 to pull a trigger. I'm lazy and I'm tired of smiling.)
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To: metalmanx2j

Arrows from 20 paces. I will place my bet on the non-homogenized.


13 posted on 03/19/2005 11:11:54 PM PST by taxesareforever
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To: metalmanx2j

This is a real gem of a quote;"Scholars of homosexuality in indian culture say Native Americans traditionally tolerated gay behavior,and attribute the shift after the Europeans arrived."I seriously question the veracity of the previous quote.Could the author by any chance have an agenda?


14 posted on 03/19/2005 11:26:26 PM PST by thombo
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To: GottaLuvAkitas1

later read


15 posted on 03/19/2005 11:27:07 PM PST by GottaLuvAkitas1 (Ronald Reagan is the TRUE "Father Of Our Country".)
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To: EdReform; backhoe; Yehuda; Clint N. Suhks; saradippity; stage left; Yakboy; I_Love_My_Husband; ...

Homosexual Agenda Ping.

I wonder what the rank and file people in various tribes have to say about "gay" marriage?

Even if before "white man" Indians accepted homosexuality as normal and natural, that doesn't mean they will now. Many tribes also practiced cannibalism, torture, left old people out to die, and similar lovely practices.

Let DirtyHarryY2K and me know if you want on/off this pinglist.


16 posted on 03/19/2005 11:34:15 PM PST by little jeremiah (Resisting evil is our duty or we are as responsible as those promoting it)
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To: metalmanx2j

Will some teepees now have back doors?


17 posted on 03/19/2005 11:35:38 PM PST by taxesareforever
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To: metalmanx2j

I think the Pokeabutt Tribe has been trying to get a reservation at the old naval air station in Key West. They're kinda queer in their behavior but they do have the most immaculately decorated Chickee Huts.


18 posted on 03/19/2005 11:42:45 PM PST by Clemenza (Alcohol Tobacco & Firearms: The Other Holy Trinity)
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To: thombo

Agree. This article is just homo propaganda.


19 posted on 03/19/2005 11:49:05 PM PST by planekT (Gov. "We don't make the things you need, we make them more expensive".)
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To: metalmanx2j

http://www.officialvillagepeople.com/Flip%20page.html

 

20 posted on 03/19/2005 11:57:36 PM PST by dennisw ("What is Man that thou art mindful of him")
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To: fish hawk
Have lived in a couple villages and even though its not accepted, its tolerated. Maybe because its a close blood relative or the kinda the native way of acceptance for the strength of the village community as a whole. They still ridicule them just the same amongst themselves and its a mark they never ever live down. Seen elders haunted by something 50 years in their past and never viewed as a whole person over it.

They cant wait for the spring ducks soon to arrive. Tired of livin off rabbits they snare for half the winter I think. Salmon, caribou, moose, then back to snowshoes and ducks; yearly cycle. But ya know, as long as they can eat what they catch and be left alone; they are happier than most of us white guys with all our toys; no joke.

21 posted on 03/20/2005 12:06:36 AM PST by Eska
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To: metalmanx2j
Gay Eagle weds Squatting Bare
22 posted on 03/20/2005 12:22:45 AM PST by Mike Darancette (MESOCONS FOR RICE '08)
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To: metalmanx2j
Scholars of homosexuality in Indian culture say Native Americans traditionally tolerated gay behavior, an attitude that shifted after the Europeans arrived in North America.

ROTFLMAO I wonder if the 'Indian' culture would agree?

Next we will be hearing that Sitting Bull was a teepee(no closets) homosexual -another famous homosexual like Alexander & Abraham Lincoln...

These scholars are simply homosexual activists -the same genre of scholar that suggest homosexuality was historically accepted as 'normal' and has only recently been condemned by fascist religious zealot homophobes.

23 posted on 03/20/2005 12:43:03 AM PST by DBeers
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To: metalmanx2j

"White man look kinda cute in leather boots"

"You thinkum me got too much war paint?"

"No likeum Oglala people. Don't know how to accessorize!"

I just can't see this, people...

Actually, from my limited readings of Indian culture, homosexuality or at least role-swapping was not looked upon as any big deal. If one found one's place in Indian society and was a productive member, that's what mattered.

I'm not advocating it, but that's what I understood.

24 posted on 03/20/2005 12:53:10 AM PST by Caipirabob (Democrats.. Socialists..Commies..Traitors...Who can tell the difference?)
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To: metalmanx2j

Indian gay casinos up next........


25 posted on 03/20/2005 4:02:32 AM PST by Route101
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To: metalmanx2j

The Lone Ranger and Tonto are in trouble now.......


26 posted on 03/20/2005 4:07:32 AM PST by Route101
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To: metalmanx2j

"Scholars of homosexuality" is nothing but a code word for campus homosexual activist. In reality they aren't scholarly at all--scholarly on the level of "scholar" Ward Churchill.


27 posted on 03/20/2005 4:59:07 AM PST by ViLaLuz
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To: planekT

Homo propaganda?I agree.You and i see it as propaganda,but this(article)will be accepted as historical fact at "esteemed" colleges and universities throughout the US.


28 posted on 03/20/2005 7:30:57 AM PST by thombo
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To: thombo

From my mothers side, having not one, but two tribes of Indian blood running through my veins (Osage and Kaw) I consider this a disgraceful and dishonest smear of all American Indians.

I may have to get out my war paint if they persist. :-)


29 posted on 03/20/2005 9:14:33 AM PST by planekT (Gov. "We don't make the things you need, we make them more expensive".)
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To: thombo
"Scholars of homosexuality in indian culture "


Exactly who were these "scholars" The same ones who put Indians in insanisylems because they were drunk, and then stole their land? The same ones who named those places house of idiots? I seriously doubt the validity of this article! Seems to me a warrior would be disgraced not tolerated, if he practiced homosexuality. Doubt it would occur to him to do so.
30 posted on 03/20/2005 10:09:40 AM PST by gidget7
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To: gidget7
I remember a few years ago a "Scholar" (don't remember his name)published a paper on how Homo's could not help it as it was in their genes. They are born that way. It turned out that about a year later the truth came out that it was all hooey and the Doctor himself was a homo and was just pleading their cause. No proof what so ever, even up to today.
31 posted on 03/20/2005 11:46:31 AM PST by fish hawk (The best thing about the "Vast Right Wing Conspiracy" is : it is Vast and it is Right Wing.)
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To: little jeremiah; Grampa Dave
Think this journalist has an agenda? Google search Adam Tanner
32 posted on 03/20/2005 3:13:51 PM PST by DirtyHarryY2K (''Go though life with a Bible in one hand and a Newspaper in the other" -- Billy Graham)
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To: gidget7

I question the validity as well.Keep in mind that tribes throughout the US are going to vote on whether to acknowledge homosexual unions or not,and now an "article" just happens to appear saying Indians accepted homosexuality before the white man came?Very convenient,don't you think?


33 posted on 03/20/2005 3:58:16 PM PST by thombo
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To: planekT

Wouldn't it be great if this got outed on Fox?Do kind of a Ward Churchill expose.BTW,One so called "scholar" doesn't speak for all Indians:)


34 posted on 03/20/2005 4:08:26 PM PST by thombo
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To: DirtyHarryY2K
Lord does this guy have a life??? Other than homo sex"" Talk about obsessed, he and others like him give a whole new meaning to the word. Maybe should be ob-sexed!!
35 posted on 03/20/2005 4:29:52 PM PST by gidget7
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To: planekT
I'm with you!!!!! Two different tribes in my blood as well, Shoshone and Narragansett! I am quite sure both would feel this was a disgrace.
36 posted on 03/20/2005 4:32:16 PM PST by gidget7
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To: gidget7

I think what I'll do is forward this article to my tribes council and ask them what their stance is on the issue. I wouldn't be suprised if they hadn't heard of this since Oklahoma and Kansas are a long ways from San Francisco (and not just geographicaly), but I'd be even more suprised if they were for it???

I'll remind them that they are elected and can be replaced if that is the case. :-)


37 posted on 03/21/2005 9:59:11 AM PST by planekT
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To: metalmanx2j

While homosexuality on the side was not really taboo in many Indian cultures, I've never heard of an Indian tribe with anything but heterosexual marriage. Conflating tolerance of homosexual behavior with supporting homosexual marriage is a rather gross flaw in reasoning.


38 posted on 03/21/2005 10:04:13 AM PST by tortoise (All these moments lost in time, like tears in the rain.)
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To: metalmanx2j

This is just stupid - Leftists stirring up more hatred and divisiveness. Even back when AIM was big on the rez's, Homos were not held in any high esteem.

But what the heck, this is just another story which will give FReepers plenty of opportunity to have fun bashing indians, just because of some sick twisted leftists... Sigh.


39 posted on 03/21/2005 10:11:54 AM PST by Chad Fairbanks (Celibacy is a hands-on job.)
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To: peyton randolph
If they legalize gay marriages, it won't be peace pipes being smoked at Indian casino hotels. On the bright side, the headdresses will come in coordinated pastel colors.


40 posted on 03/21/2005 10:12:40 AM PST by New Perspective (Proud father of an 13 month old son with Down Syndrome)
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To: benjaminjjones
Oh that's just great, Homo Injuns. The upside is it makes watching the Western channel and John Wayne killing injuns more enjoyable.

Yeah, because Indians are just good for killin' anyway, right?

41 posted on 03/21/2005 10:12:44 AM PST by Chad Fairbanks (Celibacy is a hands-on job.)
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To: tortoise

I agree - it was 'tolerated', much like a family member will tolerate a gay child (well, except for Alan Keyes) - they don't like it, and don't think it's healthy, but ya can't just toss them out and disown them, ya know?

I don't really recall hearing any tales of great homo warriors and the like, nor are there any mentions of homosexuality in the creation myths I've read or been told either...


42 posted on 03/21/2005 10:16:56 AM PST by Chad Fairbanks (Celibacy is a hands-on job.)
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To: IrishCatholic

OK mister Irish Catholic, check out your own Irish history. It's a little checkered as well. When you point a finger at someone,there's always a few fingers pointing back in your own direction.


43 posted on 03/21/2005 10:18:02 AM PST by senorita (A real American native)
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To: dennisw

Are you suggesting that the majority of gay men are white?


44 posted on 03/21/2005 10:19:00 AM PST by DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet (Gnome sayin'?)
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To: dennisw

Jeez, the way you constantly act on Indian threads, one would almost imagine that American Indians were responsible for the Holocaust or something.... sheez.


45 posted on 03/21/2005 10:20:15 AM PST by Chad Fairbanks (Celibacy is a hands-on job.)
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To: benjaminjjones
The upside is it makes watching the Western channel and John Wayne killing injuns more enjoyable.

You should ask that your post be removed, Archie.

46 posted on 03/21/2005 10:25:19 AM PST by DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet (Gnome sayin'?)
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Comment #47 Removed by Moderator

To: DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet

Well, since the majority of men in general are white, Id guess the majority of gay men are white too.


48 posted on 03/21/2005 10:34:13 AM PST by free_european
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To: free_european

Yeah, me too.


49 posted on 03/21/2005 10:36:40 AM PST by DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet (Gnome sayin'?)
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To: Elmer Piddlestone

Maybe you need to read what the other poster said one more time, newbie. Why would this article "make watching John Wayne kill indians more enjoyable"??? Hmmm...????

Try using your head for something besides a hatrack, noob.


50 posted on 03/21/2005 10:38:23 AM PST by Chad Fairbanks (Celibacy is a hands-on job.)
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