Posted on 03/20/2005 7:16:24 PM PST by Coastal
Words are so easy to use. Words mean things. Words are also easily used, especially when the right words elude. In Florida, Terri Schiavo is now waiting to die. Does she know it? You can be assured she does. Can she speak about it? No. Does that mean she is in a 'vegetative state'? NO!
But what is a 'vegetative state'? According to Dr. Jeffrey Frank, director of neurological and neurosurgical intensive care at the University of Chicago, "A person in a vegetative state is 'awake but not aware,'... 'Though reflexes may cause them to turn toward a sound, gaze at an object or respond to touch, 'there is no thought connected ... these are primitive, instinctual responses."
Excuse me?
That just described the vast majority of humans. Most humans do not use the short-term 'conscious' process of their brain for more than a way station of information. The motor control outputted from that short-term process, if employed would dramatically reduce stress, cut down drastically on reactionary physical violence and solve a great deal of the world's problems.
(Excerpt) Read more at nationalledger.com ...
I've got very mixed emotions about this whole thing.
The question I ask is how does this writer have the balls to say....
"You can be assured she does."
Report the news, lib-head........
and not what you feel.
LVM
Exactly, time to turn her off.
If your body temperture is higher than your IQ, it is time to make an exit.
So9
Fine if you're deciding for yourself. If not, hands off. By the way, a 6 week old infant displays some of the same characteristics as Terri: lack of focus in the eyes, but responds to sounds and smiles at the mother's voice.
Bottom line. We all should put it in writing what we want done under what conditions now.
Alas if you were born 50 years earlier you would have fit right in with the Third Reich.
"Exactly, time to turn her off."
Well, I would agree if it was as simple as an electronic machine sustaining her, that as soon as it was killed, she was, too.
However, the simple fact that she is and can continue living until the nutrients in her body have been all used up (starve) over a period of a few weeks (or even one day is enough), that tells me that she is a living human being.
And the more I hear and read on this, the more it appears that her husband has continued spousal abuse in front of the courts, God and everybody in the name of "love". he won't allow sunlight in her room. I watched live today her parents being stopped from crossing onto the hospice property. What's up with that? They can't say "goodbye" to their own daughter?
No, to me this is about rescue, not life support.
god bless Terri and her parents and siblings.
Interesting read if anyone wants to take the time.
http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/HS/content/htm/hs.002.00.000166.00.htm
This is the Texas "Health & Safety Code Chapter 166" as signed by then Governor Bush. It's it directly applicable to this situation but horribly leagalish to read so I'm linking rather that excerpting.
"If your body temperture is higher than your IQ, it is time to make an exit."
Do you have any idea how much of the human race would need to be liquidated using your formula? I am not too convinced that YOU would make the cut.
Should we execute the mentally retarded?
Yes, but the brain in a six week baby is growing, not atrophying.
SO9
Yes, half, give or take a billion.
SO9
I just got this email from the family research council.
It states, "FRC has an authentic audio file from Terri's hospital room recorded Friday afternoon, approximately two hours after her feeding tube was removed. Her father is asking her questions and she is audibly responding to him."
http://www.frc.org/get.cfm?i=NW05C05&f=AL05C03&t=e
I guess freepers can listen and decide for themselves.
Do you realize what you've just said. The average IQ is 100. The body temperature is 98.6. It means almost half of the human race should be gone according to your criterion.
The democrats are depending upon without admitting it openly the notion of arbitrarily assigning value based on level of competency. To the death party, Terri's level of competency isn't sufficient to protect her UNALIENABLE RIGHT TO LIFE! Democrats are now sunken to the level of The Party Of Death.
That was so cold, dude!
Yes, he realizes what he said.
First off, please cut me some slack as I have missed most of the in's and out's of this case, so I may not know what I'm talking about.
Here is what I have gathered.
1 - She expressed her wishes to NOT be maintained in a vegetative state to her husband
2 - She IS in a vegetative state
3 - Her husband has medical power of Attorney
4 - He has ordered withholding of nutrition and hydration
Am I missing something or is that pretty much it. If what I outlined above is the "case", then this is legal even by the legislation signed by Bush while Govener of Texas. You can read it here
http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/HS/content/htm/hs.002.00.000166.00.htm
Unless I am missing somthing, then I have to side with the husband although my heart goes out to everyone as this pretty much just stinks up one side and down the other, there are no winner in something like this.
Mr. Mengle, You call yourself a 'Goldwater Republican' but you're really a Hitler Socialist.
That is a good part of it, but not the good part. The subject seems to be aware, crippled but functional to a degree.
"Unless I am missing somthing,...."
You certainly have. For the sake of decency, and especially for Terri Schiavo and those who love her, make an informed observation. Do the research, as many of us have, and then express your comments.
That statement is heresay, and likely a deliberate lie
2 - "She IS in a vegetative state"
False. - She responds to her family in numerous ways. Most of her motor control was destroyed by a blow to the back of her neck (possibly delivered by her estranged husband)
3 - Her husband has medical power of Attorney
False. no documents exist, but the pro death judge is acting as though they do.
4 - He has ordered withholding of nutrition and hydration"
True. I call that murder.
"For the sake of decency, and especially for Terri Schiavo and those who love her, make an informed observation. Do the research, as many of us have, and then express your comments."
Fair enough, starting now.
Link to the proposed law if you're interested.
http://news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/schiavo/bill31905.html
"False. no documents exist, but the pro death judge is acting as though they do."
I am not a lawer, but doesn't the spouse automatically get Medical Power of Attorney?
1 - She expressed her wishes to NOT be maintained in a vegetative state to her husband Terri has no written directive for her fate; Michael only 'remembered this questionable assertion seven years after he and she were awarded more than a million dollars for her rehabilitation therapy, therapy which her then husband immediately stopped upon receiving the monies, monies which he has spent on lawyers seeking to starve her to death
2 - She IS in a vegetative state Terri is not in a vegetative state according to many specialists, while other husband hired and Greer court hired specialists say she is, yet she does have cognitive abilities beyond the lower limit of the Florida statute of PVS diagnosis; Greer and Felos (Michael's hired attorney) are connected to the hospice program into which Michael moved Terri as soon as he switch to trying to have her put down rather than seeking therapy for her; Terri did receive therapy prior to the awards of massive amounts of cash into Michael's control and she was improving, yet her then husband arbitrarily stopped ALL therapy and began a long and drawn out process of abuse through asserted neglect
3 - Her husband has medical power of Attorney her once husband was appointed by a judge who has at least a massive circumstance of conflict of interest; her once husband is now in a longterm common law relationship with a woman who has born him two children since Michael placed Terri into hospice! There is clearly a major conflict of interests with Michael remaining the sole voice for his once wife
4 - He has ordered withholding of nutrition and hydration Judge Greer is the actual commander of the withdrawal of fluids and sustenance
If you're truly serious about understanding this issue, please do some extensive reading and familiarize yourself with the facts of this case. If I can offer any further clarification, please feel free to query. If I cannot answer you, I'm sure there are numerous Freepers who can answer ANY question you ask. If someone responds, please give thoughtful consideration to that answer.
I'll be sure to double check you :) but thanks, thats exactly what I needed. Quick concise and mostly emotion free.
Absolutely not. In most states, medical directives can only be done with what is called "Durable Power of Attorney" which is a document that must be signed and notarized.
For starters, Terri is not in a vegetative state, as this video of her laughing at dad's joke about her eye demonstrates. You will not see this video or others like in on ABS/CBS/NBS/CNN, or even Fox.
>"Exactly, time to turn her off."<
Turn what off?
I'm sure you're aware that she breathes on her own. So what is it you want to turn off, Doctor?
http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/johansen200503160848.asp
Check out this article. Best so far I've found for the 'Save Terri' side.
Addresses PVS and brain damage.
Don't stop there.
The burden of proof falls on your shoulders. My fellow FReepers, if you'll notice, are aware of many facts involving this case. It would appear to me that if you were truly interested in the well-being and outcome of Terri Schiavo you'd do your homework. Otherwise your comments would seem to indicate that you just wanted to take the opportunity to express your pre-conceived ideas.
Obviously, there are a whole lot of folks in this country who care very much about Terri's life. Personally, I don't appreciate it when individuals such as yourself make uninformed comments. That shows a lack of respect for the facts, as well as Terri and her the family.
Normal body temperature is 98.6. By your reasoning, we should kill everyone with an IQ less than 98.
Especially Fox!!! - Rupert Murdoch is one of the death cultures biggest proponents. He holds many conferences in a room he had specially built, that is full of coffins.
The way I see it, he has expressed an informed opinion.
Just because you don't agree with it is not reason to say that it's uniformed.
Believe it or not, there are a lot of us who have been paying attention and we've agonized over who's right and who's wrong.
I'm one of them.
Truth be told, I still don't know what to think. I'm not paralyzed by indecision. I'm simply don't view this as cut and dried as you do.
As you are a newbie, I would advise you to use the considerable resources of FreeRepublic found in the broad, well educated, fellow Freepers. We the Freepers are --as one Lazamataz has said-- a force to be reckoned with ... and that is so much more apparent given the complicity of mainstream media in the mischaracterizations and outright lies America is continuously fed of late.
Oh well.
Nothing that they do makes any sense, until you grasp the simple fact that they literally worship evil.
"Personally, I don't appreciate it when individuals such as yourself make uninformed comments. That shows a lack of respect for the facts, as well as Terri and her the family."
DUDE!! I made clear my ignorance to begin with and was very clear in what I knew BEFORE drawing any conclusion. The problem with this case is the very emotional nature as so perfectly expressed by your immediate jumping on my back has resulted in so much name calling and finger pointing that you can't tell who knows what they are talking about and who is just full of it.
I understand this is serious for you, but take a tip from MHGinTN and Lexinom in a couple of minutes, they managed to get me up to speed, you have just managed to raise the hair on the back of my neck.
What harm in letting the parents and dissenting neurologists try therapy, at no expense to the taxpayer?
You are struggling right now with priorities.
There's a lot of concern about constitutional issues, as well as separation of powers (e.g. States Rights). We have a well-proven and solid system. Very rarely, but sometimes, we discover a flaw in that system. We fought a war over this in the 1860's when States' Rights clashed with human rights. There were good arguments on both sides. Many symptathetic to the Conferacy (myself included) believe slavery would have gone away without a war. No one - North or South - held the slave trade in high repute.
In this case, the clash is between States' Rights and human rights - only this time it's an innocent disabled woman with no written wishes to end her life. The choice before us is maintaining the integrity of the division of power and accepting a potentially deadly legal precedent, or of recognizing the impending collision, admitting the flaw, and reaffirming that the 14th Amendment must of necessity trump States' Rights.
Anybody not believing this amounts to court sponsored murder of a disabled human being, go to terrisfight.org, click on the column on the left on Court Documents and click on the pdf file of Greer denies feeding by mouth.
In it, he goes so far to deny any motion to even allow someone to attempt to feed her in natural manner.
Starve your dog and go to jail. Starve your disabled wife in Florida and become a hero, at least in Greers court.
I'm sure that your socialist screwel teacher told you that, but the Civil War was about #1, taxes, and #2, States Rights. Slavery was injected by Lincolin, as a recruiting tool after the war was already a year under way. Almost 1/3 of the confederate troops were actually slaves, and most of them were volunteers. Black poverty is largely a result of the schisms that grew out of the war.
I've read 40,000 blacks fought for the south, which would be less than 1/3, but perhaps my memory is wrong.
You will agree, I hope, that the real reasons for the War Between the States aka the War of Northern Aggression notwithstanding, slavery is reprehensible and was a violation of fundamental rights that required real national soul-searching and a rethinking. Hence, the 14th Amendment. This, to my mind, fits within the same category.
"The problem with this case is the very emotional nature as so perfectly expressed by your immediate jumping on my back..."
Pardon my observation, but who is being emotional? You were the individual that decided to post a comment on an issue you knew nothing about(judging by your post). We, as FReepers, which includes the patient individuals that took the time out to enlighten you regarding the facts of the case, know who's "full of it." We certainly can tell "who knows what" because we choose to be informed and post our comments with a respectable level of knowledge with regard to this specific case.
"they managed to get me up to speed,". They MANAGED? Did you manage to muster up some effort to do more research, or is the information they supplied good enough for you?
I couldn't help but notice how unmoved you were after being given that information regarding Terri's current state and the issues surrounding her case.
Now who is "name calling and finger pointing" here?
THE HOUSE BILL PASSED
203 yeas, 58 nays
I am not advocating doing anything to anyone. I am just calling for volunteers.
SO9
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