Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

A Debate That Cannot Be Ignored (Is immigration good for NC? John Locke Foundation)
A Carolina Journal Exclusive ^ | March 23, 2005 | John Hood of the John Locke Foundation

Posted on 03/23/2005 6:50:06 AM PST by TaxRelief

RALEIGH --North Carolina has experienced one of the most rapid rates of growth in illegal immigration in the United States, according to a new report. The Tar Heel State can now claim to host about three percent of the nation's illegal-alien population.

This is clearly news, though media accounts that dwell on the rate of growth alone will tend to exaggerate the significance of the trend (it is easy to outpace the nation in percentage growth if your starting base is relatively low).

The real question is: does North Carolina's role as one of the nation's magnets for illegal immigration constitute good news or bad news?

It depends on what factors you are examining, and the relative importance you place on them. On the plus side, rapid rates of illegal immigration into North Carolina suggest that attractive opportunities still exist despite recent and wrenching structural changes in the economy. Also, there is a very-real improvement going on here in the standard of living of many thousands of fellow human beings. Obviously, those who come to America from impoverished foreign climes realize significant gains (even if the official data show them increasing the "poverty" rate).

But less obviously, native North Carolinians also experience sizable gains in living standards as new enterprises start up, new entrepreneurial energies are unleashed, and labor costs moderate in competitive service industries that pass along much of the savings to consumers in the form of lower prices.

On the other hand, there are some entries on the cost side of the ledger, too. Some native-born workers face intensified competition for jobs, driving down their wages. Because immigrant families tend to be younger and have more children, their presence somewhat strengthens the finances of federal entitlement programs such as Social Security and Medicare but they worsen the finances of school systems, public health departments, and Medicaid. There are some adverse social and cultural consequences, much of them having to do with language differences and what many believe to be an inadequate commitment to rapid and effective assimilation of immigrants by public and private institutions.

A basic problem is the "illegal" part of the moniker. The illegality of current waves of immigration means that we don't have an effective means of distinguishing honest, hard-working people looking for economic opportunity from would-be criminals, welfare dependents, and perhaps even terrorists. Because they fear arrest and deportation, illegal aliens are less likely to assert their rights, less likely to obtain insurance and other necessities of modern life, and have fewer options for bettering themselves and their children's prospects.

The fact that illegal immigration is so widely recognized and tolerated isn't helpful, either. Like other laws on the books but enforced only at the margins, our immigration rules breed contempt for the law and condone its evasion. Whatever your view about the optimal rate of immigration, it is critical that illegal immigration be significantly reduced.

The question, of course, is how to do that. As two able debaters will explain at a Thursday forum on immigration policy to be held by the John Locke Foundation in Raleigh, you can reduce illegal immigration either by 1) getting serious about enforcing current immigration laws, including sanctions for employers who hire illegals, or 2) increasing the annual quotas for legal immigration. You can even mix the two approaches.

One thing you can't do is ignore this complex, critically important issue.


TOPICS: Editorial; US: North Carolina
KEYWORDS: aliens; corruptdems; illegalimmigration; legalimmigration; ncpolitics
If you've never been to a John Locke forum, you're missing out on some of the best political discussions in NC.

http://www.johnlocke.org/events/event.html?id=237

1 posted on 03/23/2005 6:50:08 AM PST by TaxRelief
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Constitution Day; TaxRelief; Helms; 100%FEDUP; 2ndMostConservativeBrdMember; ~Vor~; A2J; a4drvr; ...
The John Locke Foundation cordially invites you to a Headliner Panel Discussion with their special guests: Daniel T. Griswold, (Associate Director of the Cato Institute's Center for Trade Policy Studies) and Mark Krikorian (Executive Director of the Center for Immigration Studies)

A Debate on U.S. Immigration Policy

Thursday, March 24, 2005, 12:00 noon: Brownstone Holiday Inn, 1707 Hillsborough Street, Raleigh, NC

Price: $10

Both Griswold and Krikorian have debated U.S. immigration policy in the pages of National Review. They now bring this debate to Raleigh.

You will not want to miss this lively debate.

NC *Ping*

Please FRmail Constitution Day OR TaxRelief if you want to be added to or removed from this North Carolina ping list.
2 posted on 03/23/2005 6:57:22 AM PST by TaxRelief (March for Justice, DC, April 7)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: TaxRelief

Which kind? The immigration from the north or the immigration from the South? In a word? No. < /hardheadness off and I'm sort of joking :) >


3 posted on 03/23/2005 7:01:33 AM PST by billbears (Deo Vindice)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: TaxRelief
NC is firmly in the hands of the Agriculture lobby, who thrive on cheap labor (namely illegal immigrants). This has been going on for years and the Ag Commish has always been willing to look the other since nearly ALL his/her campaign contributions come from farmers. In addition, our congress critters rely heavily on support from farmers to keep them in office. Bobby "Show me the money" Ethridge could care less how farmers run their businesses as long as he gets their vote and campaign contributions!

I doubt Troxler will act any different than his predecessors

4 posted on 03/23/2005 7:10:39 AM PST by 100%FEDUP (I'm seeing RED!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: TaxRelief
NC is firmly in the hands of the Agriculture lobby, who thrive on cheap labor (namely illegal immigrants). This has been going on for years and the Ag Commish has always been willing to look the other since nearly ALL his/her campaign contributions come from farmers. In addition, our congress critters rely heavily on support from farmers to keep them in office. Bobby "Show me the money" Ethridge could care less how farmers run their businesses as long as he gets their vote and campaign contributions!

I doubt Troxler will act any different than his predecessors

5 posted on 03/23/2005 7:12:08 AM PST by 100%FEDUP (I'm seeing RED!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: TaxRelief

NC is also attractive due to incredibly lax documentation requirements in order to receive a drivers license. There have been recent noises about trying to correct this situation, but I think that the ease of acquiring fraudulent ID has more to do with the popularity of NC for illegal immigrants than the economy.


6 posted on 03/23/2005 7:34:34 AM PST by RegulatorCountry (Esse Quam Videre)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RegulatorCountry

El Paso, Tx has as many illegals as the entire stateof NC.


7 posted on 03/23/2005 7:38:47 AM PST by csmusaret (Urban Sprawl is an oxymoron)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: TaxRelief
He, like most who comment on this issue, avoids the issue of race. Mexicans will work for $4 an hour, blacks won't. The normal wage pressures that would raise wage levels don't exist. A byproduct of Mexican illegals is continued black unemployment. Should the economy tank, there will be two populations in NC, blacks AND Mexicans, who live on public services!

Stop illegal, criminal Mexican alien from taking jobs, allow the wage levels to climb and put unemployed blacks to work. It will be a better future for all of us.

8 posted on 03/23/2005 7:39:52 AM PST by Tacis ( SEAL THE FRIGGEN BORDER!!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RegulatorCountry

Hmm...we simply cannot get a driver's license for our 17-year-old born-in-the-USA daughter. It might be the county we're in or it might be that getting an NC identification card is easy as pie. Don't know if it has to be fraudulent, though. Do know that here in Lee County, illegals are thick on the ground and getting thicker. We're partly agricultural, so perhaps that's part of it. I do know that every last governmental level, from the NGOs like HAVEN to the County Commissioners, are turning up the volume for cash. There's a proposal for added sales tax and for increasing the property tax.

Given that the pressure might well be related to illegals who are not otherwise capable of paying their public way, I would favor sales tax increases coupled with an attempt to locate and either legitimize or expel illegals.

And it's not necessarily that you hit on the ones speaking any form of Spanish. That's profiling and, as Ron White would say, that's wronnggggg. (and that's me joking: if you wanna catch the bad guys, you narrow the field of candidates, eh?)

Cheers!


9 posted on 03/23/2005 7:51:06 AM PST by BelegStrongbow (Having a human friend is no bed of roses)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: TaxRelief
What part of ILLEGAL do they not understand?

Are we a nation of laws, or not?

Which laws can I now ignore? Tax laws?

10 posted on 03/23/2005 8:39:53 AM PST by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: csmusaret

Is El Paso still in Texas? I thought it had been incorporated into Juarez.


11 posted on 03/23/2005 8:40:57 AM PST by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Travis McGee

Right. TINO. Texan in name only.


12 posted on 03/23/2005 8:42:30 AM PST by csmusaret (Urban Sprawl is an oxymoron)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: TaxRelief
The illegality of current waves of immigration means that we don't have an effective means of distinguishing honest, hard-working people looking for economic opportunity from would-be criminals, welfare dependents, and perhaps even terrorists.

Obviously we should crank up legal immigration. And crack down on the remaining few illegals. That would solve the 'illegal' problem instantly.

Guess that's too obvious to work ....

13 posted on 03/23/2005 10:20:52 AM PST by JohnnyZ ("Thought I was having trouble with my adding. It's all right now." - Clint Eastwood)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: TaxRelief
A Debate on U.S. Immigration Policy
Price: $10

GOOD LORD!!!! They're charging 10 bucks to listen to people bitch and moan about immigration?!?!?!?? When there are thousands of FR threads you can read for free right from the comfort of your own home??!?!?!? They would have to PAY ME, and more than 10 bucks, to show up to one of those things.

14 posted on 03/23/2005 10:24:47 AM PST by JohnnyZ ("Thought I was having trouble with my adding. It's all right now." - Clint Eastwood)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Travis McGee

I think we're more like a "banana democracy" now(we're so far gone, can't even use republic in that phrase). It's obvious that there are different sets of rules for the "in crowd" (multinational corps., certain highly placed operatives in both parties, anybody with a certain ethnic last name, etc.) and then there's the rest of us schmucks still trying to figure out how to return us to a republic or else we're toast.


15 posted on 03/23/2005 1:13:00 PM PST by american spirit
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: american spirit

That's about the size of it. If we're not past the "tipping point," then we're too close to turn it around before we do pass it.


16 posted on 03/23/2005 1:38:50 PM PST by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: JohnnyZ

It shows, Johnny, it shows. :-)


17 posted on 03/23/2005 2:05:43 PM PST by TaxRelief (March for Justice, April 7, Washington DC)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: TaxRelief
It shows, Johnny, it shows. :-)

Hey, at least I didn't try to deliver a 6-minute nominating speech in 3 minutes and call my audience "effete pansies". What was THAT all about???

18 posted on 03/23/2005 7:41:54 PM PST by JohnnyZ ("Thought I was having trouble with my adding. It's all right now." - Clint Eastwood)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Constitution Day; Howlin; NCSteve; rrrod; RepublicanReptile

Griswold is a good guy, and quite sharp. Those of you in the Eastern Piedmont should try to make it if you can!


19 posted on 03/23/2005 7:53:39 PM PST by Huber (Conservatism - It's not just for breakfast anymore!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: JohnnyZ

What control would I have over anyone on the floor? (I'm not the chair.) I tried to get him the extra time, but the mean-spirited control freaks preferred to argue about numbers on ballots.


20 posted on 03/24/2005 3:53:10 AM PST by TaxRelief (March for Justice, April 7, Washington DC)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: JohnnyZ
Obviously we should crank up legal immigration.

I'm going to hope you're being sarcastic or else you're just suffering from some stray brain flatulence. The problem is floods of immigrants with no skills and no life who land somewhere and immediately go on public assistance. The only way to prevent that is to have strict standards for immigration.

21 posted on 03/24/2005 5:22:08 AM PST by NCSteve
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: NCSteve
I'm going to hope you're being sarcastic

No sarcasm. It's just too obvious for people to accept.

22 posted on 03/24/2005 6:36:07 AM PST by JohnnyZ ("Thought I was having trouble with my adding. It's all right now." - Clint Eastwood)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: TaxRelief
What control would I have over anyone on the floor?

Blaming him, not you. But I was shocked that y'all would start out by asking for more time. Nobody wants to hear all that. I sure don't. There's no need for it. If anyone's gonna speak longer it's the nominee. Four hours of stupid speeches and arguments and votes, 99% BS??? You don't want to be seen suggesting lengthening that in any way.

But really, the quality of the speech .... look, I'm no Cicero myself, but that's the point of knowing your limitations, and he would have been far better off if he'd wanted LESS time, not more.

23 posted on 03/24/2005 6:45:36 AM PST by JohnnyZ ("Thought I was having trouble with my adding. It's all right now." - Clint Eastwood)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: JohnnyZ

So then can I take it you are in favor of more aliens with no skills and no place to live flooding in and increasing the welfare ranks and living off the fruits of our labor?

Help me out here. I'm trying really hard to find an upside.


24 posted on 03/24/2005 8:17:52 AM PST by NCSteve
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: NCSteve
So then can I take it you are in favor of more aliens with no skills and no place to live flooding in and increasing the welfare ranks and living off the fruits of our labor?

I would not provide easy access to welfare.

Yes, I would certainly be welcoming to immigrants coming here to work hard and make a better living. I have friends and relatives who have done just that, and our society has benefitted tremendously as a result.

Do you know how many jokes Mexicans make about how damn lazy Americans are?

25 posted on 03/24/2005 10:30:27 AM PST by JohnnyZ ("Thought I was having trouble with my adding. It's all right now." - Clint Eastwood)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: JohnnyZ
Yes, I would certainly be welcoming to immigrants coming here to work hard and make a better living.

Trouble is, you can't have it both ways. In order to separate the many folks who want to come here and improve themselves from the ne'er-do-wells and bums, you have to have a process. That takes time. Unfortunately, it also usually means bureaucracy. Any process that simply blesses illegals as legals, or shortcuts the process of weeding out undesirables is going to result in a bigger mess than we have now.

That's the problem I have with Bush's guest worker program. It gives amnesty to existing illegals, assuming they are not undesirables and then lets them become guest workers. I have no issue with a guest worker program as long as it is under control, but illegals need to return to their home country and apply for the program.

Do you know how many jokes Mexicans make about how damn lazy Americans are?

I've made more than a few of those myself.

26 posted on 03/24/2005 10:38:29 AM PST by NCSteve
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: TaxRelief

If America REALLY wants to do something about illegal aliens, FIRST, we need to quit paying Americans for not doing those jobs Americans won't do. Cut out welfare - totally.


27 posted on 03/24/2005 10:47:26 AM PST by azhenfud ("He who is always looking up seldom finds others' lost change...")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: azhenfud
...we need to quit paying Americans for not doing those jobs Americans won't do. Cut out welfare - totally.

Excellent point.

28 posted on 03/24/2005 11:06:58 AM PST by TaxRelief (March for Justice, April 7, Washington DC)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson