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Terri Schiavo Would Not Be Starved in Israel
cnsnews.com ^ | March 23, 2005 | Julie Stahl

Posted on 03/25/2005 12:58:40 AM PST by Nachum

Jerusalem (CNSNews.com) - Terri Schiavo probably would not be disconnected from her feeding tube if she lived in Israel, experts here said.

A bill allowing "passive euthanasia" -- the removal of life support -- is currently under debate in the Israeli Knesset. In the first of three readings, the bill passed overwhelmingly.

But experts here noted that the bill would not affect Schiavo's case.

The pending "Terminal Patient Bill" would allow the removal of life support if the patient is terminally ill and expected to die within six months; is experiencing "great suffering"; and has "clearly requested not to be kept alive under the above circumstances."

Schiavo is not terminally ill and she did not leave any clear request regarding the termination of treatment.

"It's a very difficult case," said Professor Michel Revel, chairman of the newly created Bio-Ethics Council of Israel.

He said Schiavo would not be classified as terminally ill but would fall into the category of "somebody who is incapable or communicating with the outside world," Revel said in a telephone interview.

Nevertheless, he said, it is possible that after 15 years in a coma a court might decide in favor of a legal representative's request to disconnect life support.

The pending Israeli law is based on the principle that there can be no "active action taken to end the life of a person," Revel said. There is a very strict protocol of tests that must be administered to determine if a person is "brain dead," he said.

The Israeli law is based on Jewish law, which forbids helping someone die; but says if death is inevitable, prolonging life is not allowed.

An editorial in the Jerusalem Post on Wednesday also noted that Schiavo's case doesn't fall within the criteria laid down by the Israeli law and that the outcome here would likely have been very different.

"It is indeed hard to imagine an Israeli court ruling like the one in Florida in a case such as Schiavo's," the paper said.

"True, preserving life can sometimes risk prolonging suffering in a way that a patient would not choose. But our judicial system is right to be wary of an even greater danger, that of granting license for the elimination of incapacitated people, especially on the say-so of people who can hardly be trusted to have the patients' best interests at heart...

Avraham Ravitz, who belongs to a religious Knesset faction, supports a "passive euthanasia" law.

"It is very necessary [to have a law]. Without a law every doctor could make a decision [and] a judge is making decisions not based on [anything but] his personal feelings," Ravitz said in a telephone interview.

There have been several cases in Israel where terminally ill patients brought their cases before civil courts demanding the right to die.

But Ravitz said that the Israeli law would protect doctors.

Family members that wanted to dispose of relatives they thought were too bothersome would not be allowed to do so, nor would doctors be allowed to make a final choice for death if family members wanted to keep a relative alive.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Israel; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: be; cary; inisrael; judges; not; runaway; schiavo; starved; terri; would

1 posted on 03/25/2005 12:58:41 AM PST by Nachum
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To: Nachum
I'm ready to see if the Israeli government will accept political refugees from a runaway judiciary. I wish we still truly believed in the checks and balances system in this country. This is a sad,sad day for this country.
2 posted on 03/25/2005 1:17:39 AM PST by Lysshua (Term limits for Supreme Court Justices: an idea for which the time has finally come.)
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To: Nachum

The Israelis are so wise about so many things.


3 posted on 03/25/2005 1:20:21 AM PST by unfortunately a bluestater
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To: Nachum

We aren't in Israel. This is silly.


4 posted on 03/25/2005 1:21:29 AM PST by honest2God
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To: Nachum

Bravo Israel.


5 posted on 03/25/2005 1:25:35 AM PST by The Red Zone (Florida: the sun-shame state.)
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To: The Red Zone

Raid at Entebbe remake shot in Pinellas--breaking.


6 posted on 03/25/2005 1:31:05 AM PST by PhilDragoo (Hitlery: das Butch von Buchenvald)
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To: PhilDragoo

What! You're kidding!


7 posted on 03/25/2005 1:34:25 AM PST by The Red Zone (Florida: the sun-shame state.)
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To: Nachum
He said Schiavo would not be classified as terminally ill but would fall into the category of "somebody who is incapable or communicating with the outside world," Revel said in a telephone interview.

Nevertheless, he said, it is possible that after 15 years in a coma a court might decide in favor of a legal representative's request to disconnect life support."

He is obviously misinformed about the facts. Terri has never been in a "....coma....". The entire article is corrupted - without a credible foundation - for this reason.

8 posted on 03/25/2005 1:34:53 AM PST by Robert Drobot (Da mihi virtutem contra hostes tuos.)
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To: Nachum
If Congress, or the FL state legislature had wanted this to be law in the United States, why would've taken it up before Terri's feeding tube was removed for the 3rd time in 15 years.

They didn't. The delay in their action tells me last weekend's actions were political posturing. Theatre to fire up the base ahead of the 2006 election and to position ahead of SCOTUS' vacancies. It fits with Bush's script on "liberal activist judges" from the 2004 campaign.

9 posted on 03/25/2005 1:35:01 AM PST by newzjunkey (Demand Mexico Turnover Fugitive Murderers: http://www.escapingjustice.com)
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To: Nachum

It seems like they have it exactly right on the morals test over there. You cannot take actions that will cause a person to die. Thus, the obligation is to help her stay alive. If a person is dying, it would be wrong to prolongue their suffering and there is no obligation to keep them alive.

Terri should not have had the feeding tube removed no matter what her husband says. She is not being "kept alive" she is just being helped to stay alive. Big difference that the judges cannot seem to comprehend.


10 posted on 03/25/2005 1:35:19 AM PST by monkeyshine
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To: Lysshua; Jeremiah Jr; Quix
I'm ready to see if the Israeli government will accept political refugees from a runaway judiciary.

Hmmm...

Jeremiah 31:6-8

6 For there shall be a day, that the watchmen upon the mount Ephraim shall cry, Arise ye, and let us go up to Zion unto the LORD our God.
7 For thus saith the LORD; Sing with gladness for Jacob, and shout among the chief of the nations: publish ye, praise ye, and say, O LORD, save thy people, the remnant of Israel.
8 Behold, I will bring them from the north country, and gather them from the coasts of the earth, and with them the blind and the lame*, the woman with child and her that travaileth with child together: a great company shall return thither.

*I just noticed that the word for lame is same as for Passover.

11 posted on 03/25/2005 1:36:43 AM PST by Thinkin' Gal
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To: monkeyshine

Judge Greer has issued a clearly illegal order that no water or food can be given to Terri even by mouth. This is not just the removal of a feeding tube but this judge has denied a request by her parents to give her water and food naturally! No judge or court has this power not even for a terminally ill person which Terri is not and it does not take an attorney to figure this out. I defy anyone to find legal authorization, even in Florida law, for this order by Greer.

As is stated in another thread on an article by a doctor (William Anderson) in the Weekly Standard titled "Terri's Last Chance" there is no medical, legal or moral reason to not attempt a trial of natural drinking. He argues all the outcomes of such a trial, even if it results in a quicker death, are better than refusing to allow her to attempt to take food and water on her own. Only Greer's order stops this and such an order is not within the power of a court to make.

Jeb and George Bush should blast Judge Greer out of the water on this illegal order and immediately give her water by mouth. This could allow time to dismiss Greer for violating her human rights by his order and overturn the guardian decision. I fear everyone is so focused on the feeding tube issue that they have ignored the best opportunity of helping Terri and getting Greer off this case -- let her try to take water on her own by mouth.


12 posted on 03/25/2005 1:42:23 AM PST by politeia
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To: politeia
Judge Greer has issued a clearly illegal order that no water or food can be given to Terri even by mouth.

My goodness man, you are right. That has to be illegal. The least they should do is see if she can eat and drink normally and if so, there is no reason at all why she should be left to die. This whole episode has got me sick to my stomach, tears my heart and hurts my head. I have no idea how or why they could rule the way they have and your post, the first I've heard of it, only confounds me further. These people are mad.

13 posted on 03/25/2005 1:52:49 AM PST by monkeyshine
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To: monkeyshine; politeia

It's worth noting the rather excellent chance that she would just choke to death.


14 posted on 03/25/2005 2:00:19 AM PST by AntiGuv ()
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To: politeia

This article is indeed silly. There are a lot of people in the world that would not kill Terri Schiavo or wish to see her dead, but some how the wishes of her adultereous husband have held sway. It is beyond belief how a man who lives with another woman, and wish his wife dead, and he has paid out enough money to get his wishes to come true.

But, let this be a warning to all people. Medicare and Medicaid are facing financial hard times, and the push for euthanasia is going to be great. Any one of us may get caught up in this.

Melamed-Cohen points out that the ramifications of euthanasia advocacy go far beyond the realm of the "terminally ill." The euthanasia movement threatens to redefine the very meaning, and sanctity, of human life.

"Life today is becoming cheaper and cheaper," he observes
Living wills are going to be pushed upon people, hoping that they will say that they do not want extra ordinary care, when that may mean just food and water.

So be on the alert, for we are all a target and not just Terri. She is being starved to death at this moment, and my heart cries.


15 posted on 03/25/2005 2:02:04 AM PST by tessalu ( A)
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To: Thinkin' Gal
Thanks for the insight and Scripture. My family and I are praying about moving soon. I especially took note of the phrase the woman with child and her that travaileth with child together. This is a great encouragement.
16 posted on 03/25/2005 2:17:22 AM PST by Lysshua ( Term limits for all justices,not just the Supremes, the time has come, the time is now.)
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To: Thinkin' Gal
Thank you for the Scripture and insight. The phrase the woman with child and her that travaileth with child together especially stood out to me. I will be praying with my husband and children about when we should move.
17 posted on 03/25/2005 2:28:53 AM PST by Lysshua ( Term limits for all justices,not just the Supremes, the time has come, the time is now.)
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The title made me think, "What? Israel is more respectful of life than we should be?", but the article's the opposite. Another pro-death country.

How humiliating to belong to America right now. The America that claims to be such a great country, but won't give it's own healthy citizens.

Day 7 of starvation and dehydration today for Terri today.

We are so far from God that we don't know how to love a helpless, healthy person. We torture and murder her instead. We are guilty before God. We must repent.


18 posted on 03/25/2005 2:33:10 AM PST by gentlestrength (Lord, make us a nation that loves justice AND mercy, and which walks humbly with You)
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To: honest2God
We aren't in Israel. This is silly.

Honest2God and the other person who called this article silly: Since when are articles that aren't strictly about the U.S. silly. If it's so silly to post a news article about Israel's laws, why are you reading the silly story and posting in the silly thread. Are you the silly monitor. You go from thread to thread and inform as to whether a thread is an appropriate topic on the correct geographical area, and ties into the topic being discussed in just the right way. I think YOU'RE silly. So much anal retentiveness the last few days.
19 posted on 03/25/2005 2:47:46 AM PST by Cherokee Conservative (The Constitution is a mere thing of wax in the hands of the judiciary - Jefferson)
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....unless, of course, the coma patient happened to be an Arab.


20 posted on 03/25/2005 3:00:56 AM PST by AdvocatusDiaboli
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Jesus would heal someone on the Sabbath and "Oh no! It's not legal!"

King David would feed his men on the Sabbath, but "Oh no it's illegal!"

The Messiah comes to offer salvation by pure GRACE. A gift. But we say, "Oh no. I'd rather insult God by trying to earn my own merit. I'd rather try to be legal."

Problem is, none of us can be perfect, which is our holy God's requirement. We can never obey enough. The Law was never intended to give life.

It was Jesus' Whose sinlessness was crucified on this Good Friday 2000 years ago, that we may have life. But because He willingly gave His life, God accepted His merit as our substitution. He was raised from the dead three days later, and was seen by over 500 eyewitnesses, whose stories could be checked. We have the eyewitness accounts preserved for us in the Bible!

It's sad to see our heritage in Israel just as sinful as we are, just as careless with life. We can start today, turning to our Savior seeking His forgiveness and grace!


21 posted on 03/25/2005 3:10:43 AM PST by gentlestrength (Lord, rescue Terri Schiavo and HEAL her that the world may see Your glory!)
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To: AdvocatusDiaboli

The Israelis always helped the Arabs. There has never been any return of the good will, however.


22 posted on 03/25/2005 3:57:18 AM PST by Diogenesis (Si vis pacem, para bellum)
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To: unfortunately a bluestater

They also at one time, and may still have, one of the highest abortion rates in the world


23 posted on 03/25/2005 4:29:46 AM PST by Military family member (If pro is the opposite of con and con the opposite of pro, then the opposite of Progress is Congress)
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To: Nachum


24 posted on 03/25/2005 4:40:25 AM PST by M. Espinola (Freedom is never free!)
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To: Nachum
Subject: Shiavo review of guardianship

Governor Jeb Bush, jeb.bush@myflorida.com

Friday, March 25, 2005

The court, in 1997 when Michael announced he was'engaged' should have immediately conducted a guardianship hearing and transfered Terri to State guardianship. Because of this failure, we are in the present situation.

Questions you might consider:

(1) Why did Michael choose to 'ignore' her wishes for nearly 7 years until 1997 when he announced he was'engaged' to Jodi Centonze and 'suddenly' remembered the conversation about life support with Terri from years before?

Michael Schiavo answer would probably rationalize that it took that long before he realized there was 'no hope for recovery...'

(2) However, the 1992 malpractice suit for $20 million was based on the premise/conclusion that Terri would NOT recover and she would require constant medical care for the remainder of her life estimated by Michael Shiavo and his laywers to be 51 years(which is the normal life expectancey)...Where were her WISHES at that time?

(3) The court, in 1997 when Michael announced he was'engaged' should have immediately conducted a guardianship hearing and transfered Terri to State guardianship, at a minimum because of the obvious conflict of interest on the part of Michael Shiavo.

The court system failed to act at that point, and that is a major factor on why we are at the point we are today.

Guardianship, by law and practice, is determined to be given to that person who is most heavily 'biased' in favor of the disabled person. Under most conditions this would be the spouse. However, most prudent courts, if during the guardianship period, the appointed guardian by circumstances or accident tilts the 'bias' away from the interest of the person so guarded, would conduct and immediate review, and at a minimum, transfer guardianship to the appropriate State agency.

hope this is useful

Van & Katherine Jenerette

North Myrtle Beach, SC

Professor, Political Science, SCC

Associate, Sociology, Coastal Carolina University, South Carolina

25 posted on 03/25/2005 5:31:50 AM PST by kjenerette (Jenerette for Senate - www.jenerette.com - U.S. Army Desert Storm)
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To: unfortunately a bluestater

"The Israelis are so wise about so many things."

So the Supreme Court was right to look to other countries in their Capital Punishment ruling?


26 posted on 03/25/2005 5:53:10 AM PST by Smartaleck
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To: PhilDragoo

"Raid at Entebbe remake shot in Pinellas--breaking."

Entebe or Waco?


27 posted on 03/25/2005 5:54:09 AM PST by Smartaleck
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To: Robert Drobot

He is obviously misinformed about the facts. Terri has never been in a "....coma....".

Page 10 of the GAL, Wolfson, report.

"Despite heroic attempts to resusitate, Theresa remained unconscious and slipped into a coma..."
http://www.miami.edu/ethics2/schiavo/wolfson%27s%20report.pdf


28 posted on 03/25/2005 6:07:24 AM PST by Smartaleck
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To: Smartaleck

No, that is not what I am saying.


29 posted on 03/25/2005 11:53:49 AM PST by unfortunately a bluestater
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To: Military family member

I didn't know that.


30 posted on 03/25/2005 11:55:04 AM PST by unfortunately a bluestater
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To: Nachum
"It's a very difficult case," said Professor Michel Revel, chairman of the newly created Bio-Ethics Council of Israel.

It's not a difficult case. It is a simple case made endlessly complex by those wanting Terri dead.

31 posted on 03/25/2005 11:58:37 AM PST by Havoc (Reagan was right and so was McKinley. Down with free trade. Hang the traitors high)
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To: Lysshua; Aussie Dasher
I'm ready to see if the Israeli government will accept political refugees from a runaway judiciary. I wish we still truly believed in the checks and balances system in this country. This is a sad,sad day for this country.

I feel a bit like Aussie Dasher here (I pinged ya, buddy, it is the right thing to do) but right now, I hold Israel in more high esteem than my country right now. I hope out of all of this, we are able to fix things and get back to the higher plane. At least the rule of law and the sanctity of life is still held in high regard in Israel. Go Israel!
32 posted on 03/25/2005 11:59:31 AM PST by Nowhere Man (I hope you enjoyed your dinner, Terri Schiavo can't. B-()
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To: Nachum

Oh, yeah, I would have loved to see the Mossad save Terri.


33 posted on 03/25/2005 12:00:58 PM PST by Nowhere Man (I hope you enjoyed your dinner, Terri Schiavo can't. B-()
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To: unfortunately a bluestater
I didn't either until one of my students wrote an anti-abortion paper that used that fact, complete with source, with the paper. At one time the abortion rate exceeded 50% of all pregnancies
34 posted on 03/25/2005 1:53:38 PM PST by Military family member (If pro is the opposite of con and con the opposite of pro, then the opposite of Progress is Congress)
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To: Nowhere Man

Any country that holds human life in high esteem gets top marks from me.

I daresay what happened to the Jews immediately before the creation of their nation must hold a lot of sway in their view on these matters.


35 posted on 03/25/2005 5:06:01 PM PST by Aussie Dasher (Stop Hillary - PEGGY NOONAN '08)
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To: Military family member

I googled "Israel;abortion" and skimmed thru some of the resulting websites. It looks like the law in Israel is that you can have a legal abortion, provided that you obtain the permission of a designated "abortion commission" and you fill one of four criteria:

1. Under 18 or over 40. (about $370)
2. Fetus has serious mental or physical defect. (free)
3. Pregnancy is result of incest, rape or extra-marital relations. (free if incest or rape; not free if extra-marital)
4. Pregnancy will cause physical or mental damage to mother. (free)

This appears to be current law, but not sure---could have been amended since websites posted. The abortion committee consists of two doctors and one social worker; no approval other than the committee's is required. Looks like most requests for abortion are approved---90 to 95% in 1992 thru 1999 per these sources. It looks like they also have a fair number of illegal abortions---16,000 in 1999, compared to 18,785 legal ones in that same year.

From these sources, of each 100 known pregnancies in Israel, between 12 and 13 end in abortion (years 1992 thru 1996).

Also from scanning various sites, it looks like abortion was legalized in Israel in the early 1970s and it also looks like their are religious groups (Jewish) that strongly object to abortion. So not unlike the US in these respects.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Health/abort.html
http://www.iwn.org.il/iwn.asp?subject=health.mdb&id=115&cName=Health&topic=Main...
http://www.jewsformorality.org/r_jakobovits_on_abortion.htm
http://www.jewsformorality.org/israel_abortion.htm


36 posted on 03/25/2005 5:22:24 PM PST by unfortunately a bluestater
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To: Military family member

One additional thing---I looked for abortion statistics in the US, and it looks like there are 20 abortions per 100 known pregnancies here. Does that correlate with what you have heard?


37 posted on 03/25/2005 5:29:55 PM PST by unfortunately a bluestater
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To: unfortunately a bluestater

Yes. Check C-Section rates. That's really scary


38 posted on 03/25/2005 5:32:16 PM PST by Military family member (If pro is the opposite of con and con the opposite of pro, then the opposite of Progress is Congress)
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To: unfortunately a bluestater

Yes. Check C-Section rates. That's really scary


39 posted on 03/25/2005 5:35:01 PM PST by Military family member (If pro is the opposite of con and con the opposite of pro, then the opposite of Progress is Congress)
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To: tessalu

"Medicare and Medicaid are facing financial hard times, and the push for euthanasia is going to be great ... The euthanasia movement threatens to redefine the very meaning, and sanctity, of human life."

I agree. Dollars and cents will be a big factor in how these people define life and in how aggressive they are in pushing earlier death. All to save Medicare/Medicaid money. It's sick.

"Living wills are going to be pushed upon people, hoping that they will say that they do not want extraordinary care, when that may mean just food and water.'

Again, I agree. In my opinion, deprivation of food and water should not even be offered as an option on a living will. It is inhumane. In my state, the standard statutory form offers you the choice to accept or reject a feeding tube and then offers you the choice to accept or reject "other life support", as if food and water are life support.


40 posted on 03/25/2005 5:54:39 PM PST by unfortunately a bluestater
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