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Schiavo Moves Closer to Death (Schindlers Attorney: She Has 'Passed the Point of No Return')
ITV of Britain ^ | 3.27.05 9:49 PM

Posted on 03/27/2005 2:35:40 PM PST by gopwinsin04

The Schindlers attorney said that Mrs. Schiavo is declining rapidly and a morphine drip has been administered by medical staff at her hospice to help her ease her pain.

He added, 'At this point, we would say that Terri has passed the point of no return.'

The case has been in and out of court for years and has gripped America.

It has seen the intervention of US President George W. Bush, the US Supreme Court and Florida's Governor Jeb Bush.

The Schindlers, practicing Roman Catholics, have attracted passionate support from an array of Christian conservatives, right to life, and anti abortion advocates, who have been holding vigils outside the hospice.

(Excerpt) Read more at itv.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: District of Columbia; US: Florida
KEYWORDS: judicialtyranny; terrischiavo
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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To: nicmarlo
The fight, apparently, has only just begun...getting laws overturned....not just in Florida, but throughout the country,

It won't matter. Any law in the land can be overturned by a judge who says in my opinion it's unconstitutional.

Euthanasia is was already against the law .

To deny someone who is innocent, life without when their will in the matter is in doubt, violates the constitution and the most basic God given right of all. Without it there are no other rights.

I guess anyone who attempts suicide should be left in the parking lot and denied help. After all it's what they want. sarcasm /

151 posted on 03/27/2005 3:50:28 PM PST by mississippi red-neck
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To: mtbopfuyn

You just know Dubya is thanking God this came up in his second term instead of his first.


152 posted on 03/27/2005 3:51:39 PM PST by Xenalyte (I am at Dr. Venture's lab to right that which is wrong and to repair the torn curtain of time itself)
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To: beyond the sea

I am as well. They let us down.


153 posted on 03/27/2005 3:52:15 PM PST by Diva Betsy Ross (Code pink stinks!)
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To: Texas Songwriter
I never have been convinced that she isn't aware to some extent, nor am I convinced that she can't feel pain.

Morphine is ALSO used to still the respiratory system.

Right now, I am not going to speculate as to why morphine is being given NOW.

154 posted on 03/27/2005 3:52:21 PM PST by tiamat (Some days, it's not even worth chewing through the restraints.)
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To: mississippi red-neck

You are sadly, correct. Then, AmeriKa is past the point of no return, as well as Terri.


155 posted on 03/27/2005 3:52:45 PM PST by nicmarlo
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To: ChiMark
"There should be hell to pay for this."

It will be.

156 posted on 03/27/2005 3:53:34 PM PST by sweetliberty (Never argue with a fool. People might not know the difference.)
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To: thoughtomator

FR is not here to meet anybody's expectations. It is what it is, nothing more, nothing less. Let people post what they want, within the bounds of civilized discourse.




Great point - I agree. Yet, occassionally things get out of hand and do more harm to all than good, and we have the right to speak up about it. Afterall - there must be respect for the reputation of FR.



157 posted on 03/27/2005 3:54:32 PM PST by ClancyJ (The Death Culture Movement - All of us are hosed no matter what we do)
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To: tet68

"So much for a painless death."

Also explains why Michael's mouthpiece says that terry looks "Blissful".


158 posted on 03/27/2005 3:54:50 PM PST by txradioguy (When liberty’s in jeopardy, I will always do what’s right...)
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To: gopwinsin04

HMMM...Felos said yesterday that it was so peaceful and she was so lovely...what is this about PAIN?????????

We were all told it would be an easy, pleasant death.

It was supposed to be a lovely death.

I am so fed up I could just scream.


159 posted on 03/27/2005 3:55:28 PM PST by joyce11111
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To: snarkytart

"The media is pro abortion and they see this case as an issue related to abortion rights. They think Terri's parents and their supporters are a bunch of pro life religious loons trying t enforce their religious beliefs upon Terri, whose wish it was to die.
You will notice the FReepers who are most adamant supporters of Judge Greer and MSchiavo's side are also pro choice Republicans/Libertarians."

Is this why the MSM has made it out that she is brain dead and pretend that this is what she wanted?

MAYBE DAN RATHER WILL SHOW UP WITH TERRI'S LIVING WILL!


160 posted on 03/27/2005 3:56:07 PM PST by avile
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To: Trust but Verify

I wonder if you might lie occasionally to try and prevent your daughter being murdered?

Apparently you do not have children. Michael is lucky he was not met in an alley years ago.


161 posted on 03/27/2005 3:56:35 PM PST by ClancyJ (The Death Culture Movement - All of us are hosed no matter what we do)
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To: Pegita

Oh Pegita, thank you for sharing your beautiful prayer with us.

You have pierced the horror of this travesty with this prayer.

The only way for us to keep our sanity is through prayer.

Thank you, again.


162 posted on 03/27/2005 3:57:15 PM PST by Bennett46
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To: sageb1

MORPHINE IS A RESPIRATORY DEPRESSANT!


163 posted on 03/27/2005 3:57:35 PM PST by avile
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To: txradioguy
March 26, 2005
11:00 PM ET

Dearest Friends of Terri,

I am very distraught this evening. I have contemplated whether to send this information to the people who have remained steadfast and very dedicated in their fight to free Terri from her captors. However, after great consideration, I feel it is only right that I share with you, Terri's supporters, the information I have been given to me this evening by Terri's family.

As we all have come to know, Terri Schindler is a strong woman who has an incredible will to live. Despite the daily inhumane torture that is inflicted upon her by estranged spouse, Michael Schiavo, (the man who has allowed her to lay in a bed with no food and water for the past eight days,) she has been fighting very hard to remain alive. Last Friday, in spite of her not being permitted therapy since 1993, Terri even tried to articulate the words "I Waaaaaa " in a very loud voice, in response to Attorney Weller saying to her, "all you have to do Terri, is tell us you want to live, and this whole thing can be over Terri."

Under normal circumstances, considering how well hydrated and nourished Terri has been due to receiving the balanced nutritional elements in enteral feedings, it would seem reasonable for Terri to live for another week, or so. However, what was reported by her family tonight, has presented my worst fears. Terri's breathing has changed and has recently become very labored. I am assuming this is happening so quickly because of the possible initiation of Woodside's "exit protocol." A protocol which delivers to her nebulized morphine, a narcotic which suppresses respirations. (see attached pdf exit protocol) The "exit protocol" was obviously written to enhance her death process. Woodside claims Morphine was to be administered to provide her with so-called "comfort" measures. Odd, however, they would find it necessary to administer Morphine to a patient who Schiavo and Felos have declared all along has no pain, is without any feelings, and is brain dead. Go figure!

In simple English, it appears they are killing Terri faster than she has the ability to fight to stay alive any longer. Terri's family are physically and emotionally worn out. They feel disappointed and deserted by government leaders who they once supported. They pleaded for help from them to save their daughters life, but were repeatedly turned down by judges who chose to err on the side of death, as opposed to life. Sadly, leaving them alone to stand by and witness their daughter fighting against the inhumane death of starvation and dehydration.

The callous, cruel and bizarre behaviors we have also witnessed from Schiavo in his determination to rapidly kill the wife he claims to love; leads us to assume he may now be on a rapid mission to leave Terri's parents with the memory of her death on Easter.

Please pray that God continues to protect Terri. Pray that He will provide Terri with peace as she struggles to take her final breaths. Please pray that He allows her family to feel confident that they did everything possible to save her life. Please pray that He allows them to know how much she loves them for the valiant fight they have made on her behalf. Please pray that if Terri is forced to take her final breaths, it can be with her family by her bedside and not Michael Schiavo. Pray that someday soon she will be capable of inhaling the beauty of LIFE, in a place where no more harm will come to her.

As Terri now lays taking labored breaths, I myself, am given a sense of peace in knowing if she dies, she will soon be free from Michael ever bringing harm to her again. I will no longer have to worry about what he may do to her; or, how she has had to stay locked up in a room away from her family and the beautiful sounds of the earth we all are able to enjoy every day. I will pray for each of you that you find peace within yourself in knowing you have helped Terri in your own special way.

In the meantime, please know, for as long as Terri is alive and fighting, I will continue to pray for a miracle and will keep on fighting for her until her final breaths are taken. I ask that you all join me in doing the same.

Thank you so much for being an enormous strength for Terri's family. They continue to appreciate the love and dedication you continue to show to Terri, and to each of them.

I will keep you posted.

Respectfully, and with great admiration.

Cheryl Ford RN
Fight4Terri@aol.com

164 posted on 03/27/2005 3:58:27 PM PST by Pegita ('Tis so sweet to trust in Jesus, just to take Him at His Word ...)
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To: beyond the sea

NEWWEEK EDITORS- NOT PARTISAN COLUMNISTS BUT EDITORS-

ELEANOR CLIFT, JON ALTER


165 posted on 03/27/2005 3:58:33 PM PST by avile
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To: ClancyJ

I do have children. I didn't say I blamed the Schindlers for lying. I just stated they do, so one might want to take what they or their mouthpieces say with a grain of salt.


166 posted on 03/27/2005 3:59:10 PM PST by Trust but Verify (Pull up a chair and watch history being made.)
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To: ClancyJ

You do. Notice I am not asking you to refrain from asking others to refrain, but rather simply stating my position that I don't give a flying f* what a bunch of hyenas over in liberal-land think, and that you'd be better off as well if you shared that attitude. This site is for us, it's not a dog-and-pony show.


167 posted on 03/27/2005 4:00:43 PM PST by thoughtomator (Prepare yourself for industrialized euthanasia)
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To: tiamat

Morphine is not used as a medical indication to "still" respiration. A side effect of morphine is that it depressed the centers in the brain to depress respiration and if not reversed will result in CO2 buildup and ultimately override the autonomic impules to breath and thus yield death. I have never employed morphine to stop respiration. I know of no other physician to use morphine for legitimate indications to "depresss" respiratory activity. Now, to employ morphine, knowing that her excretory and hepatic function is compromised, will all serum level of morphine to build up and with each successive dose have a cummulative effect, if the body cannot metabolize and clear the drug. This is true of any of the opiates.


168 posted on 03/27/2005 4:01:20 PM PST by Texas Songwriter (.)
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To: Dionysiusdecordealcis

I also am afraid that this issue is unique but the feeding tube is being installed and pulled by so many loving children in dealing with their parents, that it became a point of guilt for them. How could they say Michael was wrong when they have been doing nearly the same in some situations.

This is the very same thing we run into on abortion. To condemn the act, condemns them for their past.

Don't know the answer but we cannot continue killing to prevent the guilt of past killing. How insane - killing is not an addiction.


169 posted on 03/27/2005 4:02:11 PM PST by ClancyJ (The Death Culture Movement - All of us are hosed no matter what we do)
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To: ClancyJ
Thanks for posting this. I'd read it before, but took time to read it again and it probably won't be the last time. Frankly, this whole thing is getting scary. Trite statement, perhaps, but how I'm feeling at the moment. When my boyfriend and I made plans for his death (inoperable cancer), he made out a living will and a durable healthcare power of attorney. I was the one he appointed to carry out his wishes. I knew he was a fighter and really didn't want to give up, so I didn't even sign the DNR until after he died. There was no point in trying to bring him back. But I would not have been able to do anything without the other two documents. As it was, his estranged son in California had to be called to give permission for the cremation my boyfriend wanted. I couldn't do it. I wasn't next of kin.

But, back to Felos, there has to be an investigation of all that you posted here in order to have any new discussions regarding all that has happened in the Schiavo case. Otherwise, while we sleep, we will give up more and more rights.

170 posted on 03/27/2005 4:03:00 PM PST by sageb1
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To: tomahawk

How about not starving or dehydrating in any condition!!!!!! It is simply inhumane!


171 posted on 03/27/2005 4:05:19 PM PST by gidget7
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To: Pegita

SINCE THE MSM HAS MADE THIS INTO A "RIGHT TO DIE" ISSUE, AND HAS USED THIS ISSUE TO BASH PRO-LIFERS,

ARE THERE ANY TERRI SUPPORTERS OUT THERE THAT WOULD STILL WANT TO PUT THE G-TUBE BACK IN IF A LIVING WILL WAS DISCOVERED?


ARE THERE ANY PRO-TUBE PULLERS OUT THERE THAT WOULD CHANGE THEIR MIND IF MS ADMITTED HE NEVER REALLY KNEW WHAT HIS WIFE WANTED?


172 posted on 03/27/2005 4:05:49 PM PST by avile
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To: MaineVoter2002

Right...Clinton and Schumer for me. Big help they'd be.


173 posted on 03/27/2005 4:06:15 PM PST by sageb1
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To: nicmarlo
"The fight, apparently, has only just begun..."

I really pray that the the legislators follow through in their efforts to prevent more murders of innocent, disabled citizens and that Gov. Bush and DCF won't drop the ball on seeing her death and the handling of the case thoroughly investigated AND prosecuted. I pray that the president and legislators who recognize how wrong this is, will make it their term's mission to throw out these judicial dictators and replace them with Constitutional judges. My greatest fear right now, is that when Terri is dead, they will forget and go on about politics as usual.

174 posted on 03/27/2005 4:06:16 PM PST by sweetliberty (Never argue with a fool. People might not know the difference.)
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To: tomahawk

My wife is a RN and said it really happens all the time. They call it a "terminal wean". Several years ago she refused to do it any more. It did not go over well with her superiors but they did not assign any more to her.

She said it is just BRUTAL and she refused to do any more. Pray for Terri.


175 posted on 03/27/2005 4:06:31 PM PST by JSteff
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To: ClancyJ

A summary of the law changes to End-of-Life actions that paved the way for the euthanansia agenda and the test case of Terri. Per Unsourced document posted by mercyme.

Summary-Points from the full posting above......

"When Michael Schiavo first asked Judge Shames to allow him to remove terri's feeding tube in 1997, and then again in Judge Greer's court in 1998, the law at the time was not enough to let Greer order the removal of Terri's feeding tube under Terri's circumstances, so the law had to be changed in favor of Michael Schiavo.

In 1998, the florida legislature created the Florida Panel on End-of-Life Care for the purpose of revising the 765 statute for end-of-life issues. They were charged with coming up with the findings for changes in the law for the Florida legislature. Their findings were made law

Bill CB/CB/SB 2228, which revised the 765 as of October 1, 1999, also gave the authority to the End-to-Life panel to make findings for the legislature and that these findings were to made into law.

The legislature essentially gave them the authority to dictate to the legislature what changes to put in their bills. So the role of End-of-Life panel was not simply to make recommendations, but had the authority to determine what changes would be made into law.

the 765 law was revised in 1999 to include "end-stage condition" as a reason to withdraw life prolonging procedures along with persistant vegetative state and terminal illness. This was also put into law. Geldart also redefines terminal illness as not just conditions that cause death, but "irreversible" conditions or conditions "with no reasonable chance of recovery". Felos used this definition for the argument that Terri is terminal because she has a "irreversible" neurological condition with no "reasonable hope for recovery".

Geldart also details the the change in law that permitted nutrition and hydration to be considered medical treatment and the changes to life-prolonging procedures in the absence of advanced directives. Project Grace member William Leonard then points out a common scenario in Florida in his article: an elderly couple moves from out of state to Florida and then one spouse dies within a year 's time. Leonard then expands the definition of family to a neighbor, friend or caregiver who is now in the position of articulating the wishes of the elderly person to withdraw medical treatment, rather than "some distant relative".

And indeed the 765 law was changed to allow an "friend" to say that the person wanted life-pronging procedures withdrawn without a written directive. This also effected the outcome of Terri's case. Authors of Project Grace advocate for terminal sedation (Basta), withdraw of nutrition and hydration (Basta), and the refusal of physician to provide "futile" treatment as unethical even with advanced directive asking for treatments (Doty).

They also state that advanced directives providing for treatment should not carry the same weight as directives withdrawing care, and advanced directives should not compel the physican to provide them, regardless if the patient needs them (Doty). Doty is part of the Florida Bioethics Network as well as Project Grace. One of the changes in the law in CB/CB/SB 2228 includes the Bioethics Network as part of the process of withdrawing care."



176 posted on 03/27/2005 4:08:05 PM PST by ClancyJ (The Death Culture Movement - All of us are hosed no matter what we do)
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To: mtbopfuyn

""Bush brothers are breathing sighs of relief they won't be asked to be heroes again.""



Waht a horrible thing to say! I am done with all these threads. Nothing is gained by going left, and being hateful, just to retaliate. If you want to hate, chose your enemy more wisely, at least!

I'm not going to read anymore bashing of the Bushes.


177 posted on 03/27/2005 4:09:08 PM PST by gidget7
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To: Texas Songwriter

....

Now we have moved in this one case, from allowing "nature to take its course" to euthenasia. That is a point clear and simple.
.......

We must make sure others realize this.


178 posted on 03/27/2005 4:09:58 PM PST by ClancyJ (The Death Culture Movement - All of us are hosed no matter what we do)
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To: Texas Songwriter
Assuming that you practice in Texas, does starving occur in Texas? Where I live doctors often overdose dying cancer patients, pull respirators after brain death scans, but i never have heard about pulling g-tubes and letting people starve.
179 posted on 03/27/2005 4:12:04 PM PST by avile
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To: gopwinsin04
It has seen the intervention of US President George W. Bush, the US Supreme Court and Florida's Governor Jeb Bush.

And then we saw the Courts boldly defy them with no response or consequences.

The murder is almost done now it seems.

180 posted on 03/27/2005 4:12:47 PM PST by TigersEye (Are your parents Pro-Choice? I guess you got lucky! ... Is your spouse?)
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To: gidget7
I'm not going to read anymore bashing of the Bushes.

Good on ya...that's one reason I've pretty much avoided the Terri threads, and for a good part that entirely too many FReepers have been sucked into the thinking that all politicians are liars.

They seem to have forgotten that lying is largely the province of the demonrat party...Dubya and Jeb have said they've done all they can legally do - and that's good enough for me.

181 posted on 03/27/2005 4:13:22 PM PST by ErnBatavia (I don't drink and FReep...it just looks that way)
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To: avile

"MORPHINE IS A RESPIRATORY DEPRESSANT!"


I know. I said that. What's with the ALL CAPS???


182 posted on 03/27/2005 4:15:39 PM PST by sageb1
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To: nicmarlo
"...and that he's never seen her as "beautiful" than after 8 days of dehydration."

I saw that thread, and that is the most pathetically disgusting thing to come out of his mouth yet. He is a twisted little freak. Probably j***s himself off with that image in his mind. May he get what's coming to him, and soon.

183 posted on 03/27/2005 4:15:47 PM PST by sweetliberty (Never argue with a fool. People might not know the difference.)
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To: avile; sageb1
Terri's Starvation Commences: Terri's "Exit Protocol" Begins (FR thread)

That appears correct regarding the claimed usage for the morphine, for breathing, as found in a previous "Exit Protocol" (thrownback.blogspot.com) for one of the other times Terri had to endure starvation and dehydration.

Pain medication, however, such as Naproxen, is prescribed, as indicated below (red type is information added by Cheryl Ford, RN). As far as "peacefully" dying, I would call spasms and seizures anything but peaceful:

3. Monitor symptoms of pain/discomfort. If noted, medicate with Naproxen rectal suppository 375 mg Q8* prn.

Wait a minute! George Felos, Michael Schiavo, and all the other advocates of feeding-tube removal have been saying repeatedly that dying by denial of nutrition & hydration is "peaceful" and "painless". They've both said so in interviews and press conferences, such as on Larry King Live. So if dying by denial of nutrition and hydration is, as Michael said, "painless and probably the most natural way to die", then why is medication needed for pain and discomfort?

* * *

7. Multifocal myoclonus or terminal agitation (sometimes caused by electrolyte imbalance). Consider diazepam rectal administration 5-10 mg. May repeat in 4 hours if not resolved then daily - twice daily as needed.

Myoclonus is twitching or spasm of the muscles. Multifocal means "occurring in many different parts of the body". This is usually the result of imbalance in electrolytes, the chemicals, such as salt, potassium, and calcium, which make your bodies internal electrical "batteries" work. Nerve impulses and muscle contractions are governed by electro-chemical reactions utilizing these chemicals. Dehydration causes these chemicals to be out of balance, interfering with normal nerve and muscle function. This can result in nerves and muscles "firing off" uncontrollably, causing spasm. The patient will writhe and become extremely agitated. If you have ever had muscle cramps resulting from strenuous exercise (especially when you have sweat profusely), you have some idea what this feels like. Imagine having this happen all over your body, repeatedly. Diazepam (more commonly known as Valium) is a muscle relaxant.

8. Grand Mal seizure, which is highly unlikely given current conditions and lack of contributing factors (meds). Recommend diazepam 15 mg rectally as indicated in seizure management orders.

In the final stages of starvation and dehydration, the same electrolyte imbalances which can cause muscle spasm can also lead to uncontrolled firing of neurons in the brain, according to a similar mechanism. This results in seizures.


184 posted on 03/27/2005 4:16:23 PM PST by nicmarlo
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To: infidel29
""Death solves all problems - no man, no problem." --Joseph Stalin"

Perfect contrast.

185 posted on 03/27/2005 4:16:49 PM PST by sweetliberty (Never argue with a fool. People might not know the difference.)
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To: sageb1

And actually, it was described much better in post 168 by Texas Songwriter.


186 posted on 03/27/2005 4:19:14 PM PST by sageb1
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To: sweetliberty

Unfortunately, I had to listen to him say that, several times. I intentionally turned my t.v. off when he was going to have his presser.....he disgusts me. But, of course, the news had to keep inserting that crap at every opportunity....so, I did hear him say it. It was ABSOLUTELY UNBELIEVABLE. And no comments from the media condemning or questioning his crock of .....!


187 posted on 03/27/2005 4:19:20 PM PST by nicmarlo
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To: sweetliberty
My greatest fear right now, is that when Terri is dead, they will forget and go on about politics as usual.

I fear that is already the case.

188 posted on 03/27/2005 4:22:53 PM PST by nicmarlo
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To: nicmarlo

I don't have a question about morphine. When I used it in the last 3 days of my boyfriend's life, it was to help when he said he was having a hard time breathing. Hospice had left it for me to use and I could not bring myself to use it until near the end. But on the last day, he refused it. He refused all medications. Then he went to sleep. And never woke up.


189 posted on 03/27/2005 4:23:04 PM PST by sageb1
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To: sageb1

I hit the keycap by mistake.


190 posted on 03/27/2005 4:24:02 PM PST by avile
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To: sageb1

I'm very sorry about your loss, sage.


191 posted on 03/27/2005 4:24:51 PM PST by nicmarlo
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To: avile

:) thought so


192 posted on 03/27/2005 4:25:11 PM PST by sageb1
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To: nicmarlo

Thanks. It's been a crappy year without him.


193 posted on 03/27/2005 4:26:35 PM PST by sageb1
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To: sageb1

Sharing your heartache, sage ...


194 posted on 03/27/2005 4:27:53 PM PST by Pegita ('Tis so sweet to trust in Jesus, just to take Him at His Word ...)
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To: HitmanNY
She passed the point of no return, for practical purposes, when the Shindler attorneys dropped the ball in their first trip to Federal Court.

It looked like that then, but we have more decisions and opinions since then. Do you think this case stands as a success story for the judicial system? What about the dissent at the 11th Circuit, is he wrong?

195 posted on 03/27/2005 4:29:33 PM PST by Cboldt
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Comment #196 Removed by Moderator

To: sageb1

Will send up prayers for your comfort....


197 posted on 03/27/2005 4:33:33 PM PST by nicmarlo
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To: nicmarlo

Ephesians 6:12 (King James Version)

12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places


Romans 8:38-39 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)

38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Amen and Amen.


198 posted on 03/27/2005 4:34:01 PM PST by combat_boots (Dug in and not budging an inch.)
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To: ClancyJ

Chilling.

Pre-orchestrated, pre-meditated murder, all given a "legal" impramateur.


199 posted on 03/27/2005 4:34:23 PM PST by tomahawk (http://tomahawkblog.blogspot.com/)
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To: ARridgerunner
"Why does Felos want Terri to die on Easter Sunday?"

Because Satan's most intense activity occurs at the most sacred times. It is his way of desecrating that which is holy.

200 posted on 03/27/2005 4:35:28 PM PST by sweetliberty (Never argue with a fool. People might not know the difference.)
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