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Schiavo Moves Closer to Death (Schindlers Attorney: She Has 'Passed the Point of No Return')
ITV of Britain ^ | 3.27.05 9:49 PM

Posted on 03/27/2005 2:35:40 PM PST by gopwinsin04

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To: RightMike
I was thinking the same thing.

Gee, you don't think the scumbag murderers would lie to us, do you?

251 posted on 03/27/2005 6:21:40 PM PST by Lancey Howard (....tick.... tick.... tick.... tick....)
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To: gopwinsin04

It is a little comfort for those of us that know she can feel, but this will ease her suffering. I am glad the are giving her the morphine.


252 posted on 03/27/2005 6:22:01 PM PST by Nightshift (judge greer: legally blind and blind legally)
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To: Cboldt

It is responsive - I can't say that they would have prevailed on the merits with a full de novo review.

But I know that their chances of prevailing on the merits would have been better if they pushed and got the de novo review, rather than treating their trip to Federal Court as an appeal of the State Court.


253 posted on 03/27/2005 6:24:26 PM PST by HitmanLV
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To: sweetliberty
I have faith in God. It is the arbiters of government that I have completely lost faith in.

Yep. Murderers and cowardly enablers. I am sick to my stomach.

254 posted on 03/27/2005 6:24:38 PM PST by Lancey Howard (....tick.... tick.... tick.... tick....)
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To: xzins

"I have unkind words.

We have been betrayed.

This is murder."

I agree completely.
Try asking the enablers, "If this isn't murder, then what is it?", and their tortured, stammering, excuse-laden responses will make you even sicker.


255 posted on 03/27/2005 6:27:26 PM PST by Lancey Howard (....tick.... tick.... tick.... tick....)
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To: Bennett46

I wonder if the morphine is being administered to hasten her death, as she and Michael are under Congressional subpoena to appear before Congress tomorrow, Monday, March 28,2005. If she dies prior to this she cannot be brought to Washington. Michael would probably get a pass as he will be needed to fire up the oven for cremation.


256 posted on 03/27/2005 6:28:36 PM PST by Texas Songwriter (.)
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To: Lancey Howard; winstonchurchill

The severe restraints that finally permitted communion to be served to the poor woman are evidence that someone has ordered that she not be allowed even to try to eat and drink naturally.

To deprive a person of a food tube is one thing; to deprive them of even the possibility of a natural death is murder.


257 posted on 03/27/2005 6:33:20 PM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It!)
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To: sweetliberty

Well .. you have your faith in the right place.

GOD is able to do exceeding, abundantly above anything we could ask or think, infinitely beyond our highest hopes and dreams.


258 posted on 03/27/2005 6:33:54 PM PST by CyberAnt (President Bush: "America is the greatest nation on the face of the earth")
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To: xzins
To deprive a person of a food tube is one thing; to deprive them of even the possibility of a natural death is murder.

Do I understand you to now concede that removal of the feeding tube is not 'murder' under the heated definitions of the 'physical life at all costs' crowd?

Terri is not a CPR practice dummy who can be kicked hither and yon for the satisfaction of someone else's (strange) views of the 'importance' of her most truncated 'life'. She did not want this. That is, to coin a phrase, clear and convincing. Now, she has endured 15 years(!) of forced feeding and diapers against her will, the last 8 of which are directly attributable to others using our justice system to prolong her life against her will. Enough is enough. She gets to go Home now. Find another poster child for the political 'cause' of endless physical life.

259 posted on 03/27/2005 6:43:13 PM PST by winstonchurchill
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To: winstonchurchill

Only in the sense that sometimes the taking of a feeding tube is appropriate.

In this case, it is not appropriate because there's reason to discredit the impartiality of the spouse and there's reason to discredit the accuracy of the report that Terri Schiavo would have wanted such a thing.


260 posted on 03/27/2005 7:17:43 PM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It!)
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To: winstonchurchill
"against her will"

if that were proven to be true this case would have made the radar. however it is hearsay against hearsay.
261 posted on 03/27/2005 7:45:19 PM PST by avile
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To: winstonchurchill
"against her will"

if that were proven to be true this case would have made the radar. however it is hearsay against hearsay.
262 posted on 03/27/2005 7:45:19 PM PST by avile
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To: avile
WC: Terri is not a CPR practice dummy who can be kicked hither and yon for the satisfaction of someone else's (strange) views of the 'importance' of her most truncated 'life'. She did not want this. That is, to coin a phrase, clear and convincing. Now, she has endured 15 years(!) of forced feeding and diapers against her will, the last 8 of which are directly attributable to others using our justice system to prolong her life against her will. Enough is enough. She gets to go Home now. Find another poster child for the political 'cause' of endless physical life.

A: if that were proven to be true this case would [not?] have made the radar. however it is hearsay against hearsay.

You make a typical layman's mistake about the reliability of 'hearsay.' It is often used under countless exceptions to the 'hearsay rule.' 'Hearsay' is a statement, other than one made by the declarant while testifying at the trial or hearing, offered in evidence to prove the truth of the matter asserted. (FRE 801(c)) Generally, hearsay is not admissible. However, there are a number of exceptions where hearsay is admissible. Here are a few exceptions: dying declarations, excited utterances, res gestae or present sense expression, admissions and declarations against interest, and state of mind and physical condition. There are many others. Then many jurisdictions (including the federal rules) use a 'catch-all' or residual exception for the unavailability of a witness. Thus, the testimony of several witnesses recounting Terri's many expressions of her desire not to be kept alive artificially could be described as 'hearsay'. However, even if such recounting of Terri's out-of-court statements were deemed to be offered for the 'truth of the matter asserted', they would fall within either (i)the present sense exception, (ii) the state of mind exception, or (iii) in any event the residual (unavailability of the witness) exception.

This case 'made the radar,' because some politicians sought to stir a portion of their base for crass and cynical reasons. Sadly, those politicians were, in this instance, of my party.

263 posted on 03/27/2005 8:14:20 PM PST by winstonchurchill
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To: xzins
WC: Do I understand you to now concede that removal of the feeding tube is not 'murder' under the heated definitions of the 'physical life at all costs' crowd?

XZ: Only in the sense that sometimes the taking of a feeding tube is appropriate.

Either we are making progress or your new-found 'friends' will now turn and eat you alive.

Pray tell, when are those "sometimes [that]the taking [out] of a feeding tube is appropriate"? When the victim -- er, possessor of the tube has previously expressed his wishes not to be so maintained?

Or when the moon is full and the planets are aligned? When?

264 posted on 03/27/2005 8:28:41 PM PST by winstonchurchill
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To: Lancey Howard
Gee, you don't think the scumbag murderers would lie to us, do you?

Calm yourself and take your meds.

265 posted on 03/27/2005 8:30:13 PM PST by winstonchurchill
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To: PistolPaknMama

Could be interpreted either way. No problem to me.


266 posted on 03/27/2005 8:35:12 PM PST by ClancyJ (The Death Culture Movement - All of us are hosed no matter what we do)
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To: Puddleglum

They need the morphine to make it 'euphoric'


267 posted on 03/27/2005 8:35:56 PM PST by The Red Zone (Florida: the sun-shame state.)
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To: winstonchurchill

Yes, the legal engineering of the ghoul death crowd was excellent.

However, it would take a grim jury indeed to sentence a suspected murderer to death with the same kind of "evidence".


268 posted on 03/27/2005 8:38:20 PM PST by The Red Zone (Florida: the sun-shame state.)
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To: alancarp
Now wait just a sec - morphine? I thought that she would feel no pain because she had no capacity for it.

They lied to you.

Schiavo, Felos, Greer, a score of judges, and the fans of her execution have triumphed for a season.

269 posted on 03/27/2005 8:41:23 PM PST by af_vet_1981
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To: winstonchurchill

???
Did you post to the wrong person or did you forget the (/six-year-old) at the end of your post?


270 posted on 03/27/2005 8:41:44 PM PST by Lancey Howard (....tick.... tick.... tick.... tick....)
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To: winstonchurchill
politicians by their nature often try to stir their base, however I feel this is more a bottom up than top down situation.

I admit that many terri supporters would be against starving her even if a living will were unearthed, but what really put this on the radar was the starvation(rightly or wrongly) and the publics perception that MS is a scumbag that(rightly or wrongly) may or may not have contributed to her situation .

If MS behaved exemplary there would not be all this blog traffic and pro-abortion types like myself and tom harkin and the black caucus would not have joined with the reps.
271 posted on 03/27/2005 8:43:16 PM PST by avile
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To: winstonchurchill
HERE
272 posted on 03/27/2005 8:45:30 PM PST by Pajamajan (And if God will send His angels, and if God will send a sign, will everything be alright? Pray4Terri)
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To: avile
I admit that many terri supporters would be against starving her even if a living will were unearthed,...

You see, that's why so many of us who are Christian and conservative and have living wills are fighting you so hard on this. We don't want you to try to overturn our wishes, as you have tried to overturn hers, and sentence us to nutritional slurry and diapers when we want to be released in death.

Much of the nonsense here has been supposedly aimed at the fact-finding process as to Terri's wishes. But you now admit, what I have long suspected, that you won't be satisfied until our nursing homes are filled to overflowing with breathing cadavers being pumped with slurry and having their diapers changed, notwithstanding their carefully worded living wills to the contrary, because their views don't match yours.

273 posted on 03/27/2005 8:54:26 PM PST by winstonchurchill
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To: winstonchurchill
But you now admit, what I have long suspected, that you won't be satisfied until our nursing homes are filled to overflowing with breathing cadavers being pumped with slurry and having their diapers changed, notwithstanding their carefully worded living wills to the contrary, because their views don't match yours.

where did i admit any of this you jerk? what i said is that MS's disreputable behavior made many people who normally would not have been interested in the case pay attention.

I believe in living wills and DNR's , but I draw the line when disreputable people with secondary gain find it convenient to get rid of undesirables be it handicapped children ,parents or spouses.
you may be scared that some right to life zaelots (and if you had read muy previous post you would have realized i am proabortion) will keep you alive with tubes, but I am more afraid of libs killing alzheimer patients or parkinsons patients or downs patients. you can get tax cuts with the money saved. I am even more afraid that some people can believe someone who sues for non-diagnosed bulimia (when he by living with her should have known) pockets the money lives in a bigamous relationship with someone else and then suddenly after he has the money remembers her wishes - oh yes his brother also suddenly remembered.
274 posted on 03/27/2005 9:14:31 PM PST by avile
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To: HitmanNY

I'm not familiar with Randall Terry.

And I can't bear to watch TV with all the anti Terri sentiment and lies they tell.

But I would like to know what Randall Terry said, if you know.

Thanks.


275 posted on 03/27/2005 9:37:16 PM PST by Collier
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To: hydrotech1

Sorry for your loss.

That's what they said to me when my mother died.

She was 82. The last 2 years she had congestive heart failure and was homebound. I took care of her, but she was just hoping she would go, and die in her sleep.

At the end, when I had to bring her to the hospital, I signed a DNR at her request and the doctor's suggestion. She was there for 4 days.

Well, the DNR paperwork didn't get to the floor/nurse's station, so when she had a massive heart attack 4 days later, they resuscitated her, against her wishes.

It happened at 4AM, but the doctor didn't call me until 8AM. My brother, who is a doctor, but lives out of state, told me to go right to the hospital and have them remove the tube.

It took about 5 hours, because a pulmonary doctor had to be called in.

Anyway, I asked the doctor if my mother was going to be in pain or gasping for breath when they pulled the tube and he said "no, we'll give her morphine."


276 posted on 03/27/2005 9:48:44 PM PST by Collier
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To: tomahawk
The first thing we need to do is get rid of the pvs business. It got slipped in somewhere, and dehumanizes the person. Once being dehumanized, it makes it easier to manipulate people and the powers that be.

I don't suppose we can do that, but I am going to start calling it something else.

277 posted on 03/27/2005 9:53:04 PM PST by Aliska
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To: BibChr

Incredible.


278 posted on 03/27/2005 10:46:54 PM PST by Deb (Beat him, strip him and bring him to my tent!)
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To: ClancyJ

73 Why would any want to insinuate that Terri is the same as Jesus - just not so at all.

Not that she is Jesus, but that Jesus has been with her every moment and she is with him now...and it's a comforting and inspiring picture.


279 posted on 03/27/2005 11:06:06 PM PST by ArmyTeach (Pray daily for our troops.)
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To: gopwinsin04

Great picture of Terri and Jesus.


280 posted on 03/27/2005 11:13:17 PM PST by Tax Government (Support the Senate's "Nuclear Option" -- a rules change to dislodge DEATHocrats. Contribute to FR.)
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To: sweetliberty
Thank you for the answer.

Because Satan's most intense activity occurs at the most sacred times.

I have waited to reply because this needed to really sink in.

281 posted on 03/28/2005 1:18:50 AM PST by ARridgerunner
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To: Collier

Thanks and accept my sympathies as well


282 posted on 03/28/2005 4:52:52 AM PST by hydrotech1
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To: winstonchurchill

I don't know anyone who always rejects the removal of a feeding tube. They object in this case because of the facts surrounding the case, particularly the discrepancy between the husband's report of the wife's desires before the lawsuit and his report of the wife's desires after the lawsuit.

The family says she would not voice a desire to be terminated in such a manner.

Prior to the lawsuit the husband presented her case as one in which he claimed damages just so he could continue her care. His argument, if effect, was that she wanted to continue living in that manner.

After the lawsuit, he suspiciously remembered that she wanted to die in such a situation, but in some unguarded moments he has slipped and indicated he doesn't know what she would have wanted.

For me, it's a simple thing. Give a full hearing that includes a review of all old and all new evidence. Give the girl a chance to recover.

Finally, don't pretend it's a natural death when you forcibly prevent natural feeding.


283 posted on 03/28/2005 5:14:40 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It!)
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To: BibChr
This would be that "pain" she's not suffering as she enjoys this blissful, euphoric experience the intelligentsia all assure us she's having?

Yes, we've been lied to. I think most of us understood that. The underlying motive is what I can't quite fathom. Why does the left want so desperately for her to die? The only answer that presents itself plainly is that the blue staters want symbolic revenge for the election.

BTW, Terri's health isn't the only thing that has passed the point of no return. This public lynching is THE low point in 21st Century American morality.

284 posted on 03/28/2005 6:19:36 AM PST by Dataman
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To: Dataman
Yes, we've been lied to. I think most of us understood that. The underlying motive is what I can't quite fathom. Why does the left want so desperately for her to die? The only answer that presents itself plainly is that the blue staters want symbolic revenge for the election.

Spend some time reading liberal rags or listening to the liberal spokesman who loves men, barney franks etcetera and it will become obvious to you. The liberals consider this a 'privacy' issue --ANYTHING is okay because it is private --murder, euthanasia, suicide, sodomy, abortion etcetera etcetera... How dare the government keep Terri alive when this is a delicate and private family matter within the sanctity of marriage blah blah /sarcasm off

285 posted on 03/28/2005 6:38:59 AM PST by DBeers ()
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To: xzins
The family says she would not voice a desire to be terminated in such a manner. That statement sounds vaguely hypothetical. How could anyone say she 'would not voice a desire' as to such and such, unless she had made a declarative statement to the contrary and then the declarative statement is the stronger evidence. And yet, at the trial, the mother offered no such statement and no other member of her family (other than Michael, Scott and Joan) was even called to testify.

For me, it's a simple thing. Give a full hearing that includes a review of all old and all new evidence.

So, tell me, under your theory of jurisprudence how many full 'do-overs' does the loser in a lawsuit get? One, two, ten, as many as he wants? When would anything be decided?

Just the review of the procedure for fairness and applicable law took 5 years and 5 appellate and reviewing courts. Imagine what a couple of factual retrials would have consumed.

Let's be honest. The opponents of Terri's right to die would keep insisting on more trials and more appeals until they finally got the result (further imprisonment of Terri in that awful body) that they wanted. Then, of course, they would be satisfied that 'justice' was done.

286 posted on 03/28/2005 1:01:58 PM PST by winstonchurchill
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To: avile
A: I admit that many terri supporters would be against starving her even if a living will were unearthed...

WC: Much of the nonsense here has been supposedly aimed at the fact-finding process as to Terri's wishes. But you now admit, what I have long suspected, that you won't be satisfied until our nursing homes are filled to overflowing with breathing cadavers being pumped with slurry and having their diapers changed, notwithstanding their carefully worded living wills to the contrary, because their views don't match yours.

A: where did i admit any of this you jerk? what i said is that MS's disreputable behavior made many people who normally would not have been interested in the case pay attention.

No, what you admitted was that 'many Terri supporters' wouldn't be satisfied even if Terri had expressed her wishes in writing. It isn't about the accuracy of the determination of her wishes; it's about the fact that 'many Terri supporters' don't agree with her wishes and don't want to let her get free of the slurry and the diapers no matter what she wants.

287 posted on 03/28/2005 1:12:48 PM PST by winstonchurchill
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To: winstonchurchill; P-Marlowe

My analysis is that we're still awaiting the first hearing of all the new evidence. In a capital case, any new evidence should generate a full review.

You don't get a 2nd chance to get it right after you kill the party involved.


288 posted on 03/28/2005 2:51:25 PM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It!)
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To: CyberAnt
ROTFLOL!! Just what is it you want me to get ..??

If you have to ask, it won't matter, what I say. Good luck.

289 posted on 03/29/2005 10:42:33 AM PST by itsahoot (There are some things more painful than the truth, but I can't think of them.)
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To: itsahoot

ROTFLOL!!!

You say I don't "get it" - when I ask you to tell me what I "don't get" - you CAN'T TELL ME .. ROTFLOL!!

Oh my goodness!!


290 posted on 03/29/2005 10:47:16 AM PST by CyberAnt (President Bush: "America is the greatest nation on the face of the earth")
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