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Demand Schiavo Investigation: Sample Letter to Send to Medical Examiner
Association of American Physicians and Surgeons ^ | March 28, 2005 | Association of American Physicians and Surgeons

Posted on 03/28/2005 1:42:09 PM PST by eartotheground

Jon R. Thogmartin, M.D., District Chief Medical Examiner 10900 Ulmerton Rd., Largo FL 33778 Telephone #. (727) 582-6800 Fax # (727) 582-6820 mailto:wpellan@co.pinellas.fl.us

Dear Dr. Thogmartin:

When Terri Schiavo dies, the potential exists that a crime will be covered up by her planned cremation without autopsy. That potential crime is NOT the issue at the center of the present controversy, but the yet unsubstantiated allegation that an assault led to her condition in the first place.

It has been reported in the press that Michael Schiavo intends to cremate Terri Schiavo immediately upon her death.

According to the Medical Examiner's department policy posted at: http://www.co.pinellas.fl.us/forensics/policy/policystatement.htm#CA , the medical examiner must approve or deny all such requests.

The attending physician in Terri Schiavo's case has a history of 5 NPDB reported malpractice cases. There is an open quesiton of what led to her original "event".

Please disallow the cremation until the medical examiner's office can perform an appropriate investigation and/or postmortem examination to determine both the immediate cause of death AND the proximate cause of death, including the search for any injuries from the past consistent with a potential crime.

Despite the currently accepted rationale for her initial “event”, evidence on postmortem examination may reveal that Terri Schiavo was the victim of a crime many years ago.

Judge Greer has not allowed an MRI or PET Scan. PET scans are of no value post mortem, but MRI may have some limited benefit, in addition to the physical autopsy, particularly for small, old injuries to ligaments and muscles that would be consistent with a trauma that occurred due to a crime (e.g. strangulation or abuse) if one had occurred.

If there are perpetrators of a crime covering something up, they will not want such an examination done. They will be afraid of justice.

Please act now to assure no authorization is given for cremation without a proper investigation and autopsy to address these issues.

Sincerely,

___________________________


TOPICS: US: Florida
KEYWORDS: felos; flmedicalexaminer; greer; makethemstop; righttodie; righttolife; schiavo; schindler; starvation; terri; terrischiavo; terrisfight
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1 posted on 03/28/2005 1:42:22 PM PST by eartotheground
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To: eartotheground

I saw two doctors on Kasich's show last night. Both said they did not understand why an electrocephalogram had not been given, or an MRI. They said that the doctors had been "marginalized" in all this, and it would have been very easy to determine what was going on inside Terri's brain, if the court had really wanted to know. To me, it shows that Michael and the judge did not want to know the truth. They'd already made up their minds that they wanted to euthanize Terri, and they did not want these doctors throwing cold water on their decision.


2 posted on 03/28/2005 1:47:51 PM PST by Brilliant
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To: eartotheground

Judgenfuhrer Greer: "If you dare do this, I will have you and your family tortured by starvation in the Third Reich and Florida way."

3 posted on 03/28/2005 1:47:52 PM PST by Diogenesis (Si vis pacem, para bellum)
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To: eartotheground
The shocking and numerous allegations against Michael Schiavo in this case require a careful forensic and scientific post-mortum autopsy and evaluation.

If I were Michael AND I were innocent, I would be ecstatic at the propect of an autopsy, since it would once and for all clear my name.

4 posted on 03/28/2005 1:47:56 PM PST by FormerACLUmember (Honoring Saint Jude's assistance every day.)
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To: eartotheground

Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy

The merciful are those who have compassion for others, who with all their hearts pity those who have fallen into misfortune or unhappiness, and who try to help them with good works.

Works of mercy are both physical and spiritual.

Bodily works of mercy:

1. Feeding the hungry.

2. Giving drink to the thirsty.

3. Clothing the naked.

4. Visiting those in prison.

5. Visiting the sick and helping them recover or preparing them for a Christian death.

6. Inviting strangers and foreigners and travellers into one's home and giving them rest.

7. Burying the dead.


5 posted on 03/28/2005 1:49:41 PM PST by -=Wing_0_Walker=-
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To: eartotheground

Doesn't Florida have "sunshine" laws??


6 posted on 03/28/2005 1:51:16 PM PST by Perdogg (Rumsfeld for President - 2008)
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To: eartotheground

B U M P !


7 posted on 03/28/2005 1:52:38 PM PST by nuconvert (No More Axis of Evil by Christmas ! TLR)
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To: eartotheground

Amazing that there was no MRI. I just got back from the hospital where we had an appt. with the doctors treating my grandmother for alzheimers and that is one of the first things they did was give her an MRI. This is like her third one in 6 years maybe.

But I know some here at FR think I should just let her die of starvation once she is unable to feed herself, which, by the way, is not too far off. Me and my mom are up twice a day and always bring her a candy bar, for the first time last night, she did not know what to do with it.


8 posted on 03/28/2005 1:55:31 PM PST by yellowdoghunter (Get or stay out of Florida, you may hurt yourself on vacation and then the state will murder you.)
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Comment #9 Removed by Moderator

To: FormerACLUmember

an autopsy makes him a murderer, how do you clear that,,


10 posted on 03/28/2005 1:57:37 PM PST by ronnied (big red)
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To: Brilliant
They'd already made up their minds that they wanted to euthanize murder Terri, and they did not want these doctors throwing cold water on their decision.

I hope you don't mind a little correction, but I think that statement reads better that way. She wasn't dying until they took away food and water.

11 posted on 03/28/2005 1:58:58 PM PST by Pegita ('Tis so sweet to trust in Jesus, just to take Him at His Word ...)
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To: eartotheground

Oh don't worry, Jeb Bush will make sure the evidence doesn't get incinerated. Won't he?


12 posted on 03/28/2005 1:59:17 PM PST by TheCrusader ("the frenzy of the Mohammedans has devastated the Churches of God" - Pope Urban II, 1097 A.D.)
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To: eartotheground
And I bet the reply by the ME will be simply:

"You want me to get involved in this mess? What happens if I don't find the 'evidence' you guiys want? Then I'm as bad a Greer - a nazi death cultist satan worshipping member of a conspiracy'. So, my answer is not only no, but hell ******* no!"

And I wouldn't blame him in the least

13 posted on 03/28/2005 2:00:55 PM PST by Chad Fairbanks (Sure you can trust the government... just ask an Indian...)
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Comment #14 Removed by Moderator

To: Brilliant
They'd already made up their minds that they wanted to euthanize Terri, and they did not want these doctors throwing cold water on their decision.

They are stonewalling

Even presidents don't get away with that forever.

15 posted on 03/28/2005 2:02:24 PM PST by syriacus (Michael said Terri had bulimia, a mental illness. Terri wasn't of "sound mind" to say "no tubes")
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To: yellowdoghunter

You and your family are in my thoughts and prayers.


16 posted on 03/28/2005 2:02:53 PM PST by Cboldt
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To: All

I believe that if there is an autopsy it will show that Terri was abused, broken bones, that she was strangled, and that she was not in PVS and that her brain still had some function left enough where she was alert!

I just pray that an autopsy will be performed and done immediately! I know we continue to pray for Terri's life and we should, but I think we need to start praying that the ME office will do an autopsy!


17 posted on 03/28/2005 2:05:20 PM PST by Halls
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To: yellowdoghunter

I'm sorry about your grandmother.


18 posted on 03/28/2005 2:05:25 PM PST by syriacus (Michael said Terri had bulimia, a mental illness. Terri wasn't of "sound mind" to say "no tubes")
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To: eartotheground

*sigh* Nobody gives a rip what we think. How's that for resignation?

I don't think Judge Death is gonna give anyone a chance to find out any more about Terri than what's available now. I hope he has nightmares every day until his final descent into hell.


19 posted on 03/28/2005 2:05:31 PM PST by AmericanChef
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To: eartotheground
The Shindlers best bet is to get competent lawyers and have them pursue this. Who they are using now, cost Terri her life through their gross incompetence.
20 posted on 03/28/2005 2:06:40 PM PST by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: syriacus
Democrat Edwards (who would know): There are the two Americas.

"WELCOME TO THE REAL AMERICA WHERE CRIMINALS GET TO BE
CELEBRITIES AND CELEBRITIES GET AWAY WITH MURDER."
"TO DIE FOR" Columbia Pictures

21 posted on 03/28/2005 2:07:00 PM PST by Diogenesis (Si vis pacem, para bellum)
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Comment #22 Removed by Moderator

To: Javelina
They wouldn't let it go no matter what, so he has nothing to gain from doing it.

You mean ME's aren't the least bit interested in learning the truth?

23 posted on 03/28/2005 2:07:30 PM PST by syriacus (Michael said Terri had bulimia, a mental illness. Terri wasn't of "sound mind" to say "no tubes")
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To: syriacus

Thank you. Please keep her in your prayers. And believe me, it would literally be over my and my mothers dead bodies before anyone starved her to death.


24 posted on 03/28/2005 2:07:55 PM PST by yellowdoghunter (Get or stay out of Florida, you may hurt yourself on vacation and then the state will murder you.)
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To: eartotheground

There are times when spamming with calls and emails produces the opposite of the intended effect. This is one of those times.


25 posted on 03/28/2005 2:08:16 PM PST by BCrago66
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To: Cboldt

Thank you from the bottom of my heart.


26 posted on 03/28/2005 2:08:35 PM PST by yellowdoghunter (Get or stay out of Florida, you may hurt yourself on vacation and then the state will murder you.)
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To: KaMax

How stupid! He's only been on TV, magazines, and 5000 other web sites.


27 posted on 03/28/2005 2:09:33 PM PST by AmericaUnited (Opponent of WPPFF (Wicked People Pulling Feeding Facilities))
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To: KaMax
love how everyone keeps posting this guys picture. It'll make it so much easier for the pro-life nuts and bounty hunters to kill him.

Don't you ever wonder what would happen to Greer if he reversed his ruling?

I do.

28 posted on 03/28/2005 2:09:38 PM PST by syriacus (Michael said Terri had bulimia, a mental illness. Terri wasn't of "sound mind" to say "no tubes")
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To: KaMax
Pretty sick thing to say, Newbie. Welcome to FR.

How are Felos and DU, today?

29 posted on 03/28/2005 2:10:07 PM PST by Diogenesis (Si vis pacem, para bellum)
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To: Diogenesis
Poor Ron Brown.

Poor George Greer if he reverses his ruling, too.

30 posted on 03/28/2005 2:12:27 PM PST by syriacus (Michael said Terri had bulimia, a mental illness. Terri wasn't of "sound mind" to say "no tubes")
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To: Brilliant

There will be no investigation by anyone. Judge Greer is the law here in Florida.


31 posted on 03/28/2005 2:14:48 PM PST by MisterRepublican
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To: eartotheground

Thanks for info. Email sent with your letter.


32 posted on 03/28/2005 2:14:55 PM PST by WarPaint
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To: eartotheground

According to a guy on Hannity, the medical examiner can refuse to issue a death certificate until he has done an autopsy. Apparently, he has that right. Hoping he does one.Think some new evidence may come to light.


33 posted on 03/28/2005 2:15:04 PM PST by housewife101
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To: yellowdoghunter

God bless you and your grandmother.


34 posted on 03/28/2005 2:15:24 PM PST by PatriotGirl827 (Member of the Vast Right Wing Pajama Party)
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To: yellowdoghunter
But I know some here at FR think I should just let her die of starvation once she is unable to feed herself, which, by the way, is not too far off.

Dr. Cranford, whose testimony was heavily relied on in Terri's case, says they are coming after granny next...

"The United States has thousands or tens of thousands of patients in vegetative states; nobody knows for sure exactly how many," he wrote. "But before long, this country will have several million patients with Alzheimer's dementia. The challenges and costs of maintaining vegetative state patients will pale in comparison to the problems presented by Alzheimer's disease." The answer, he suggested, was physician-assisted suicide.

Source

In published articles, including a 1997 op-ed in the Minneapolis–St. Paul Star Tribune, he has advocated the starvation of Alzheimer’s patients. He has described PVS patients as indistinguishable from other forms of animal life. He has said that PVS patients and others with brain impairment lack personhood and should have no constitutional rights. Perusing the case literature and articles surrounding the “right to die” and PVS, one will see Dr. Cranford’s name surface again and again. In almost every case, he is the one claiming PVS, and advocating the cessation of nutrition and hydration.

Source

Guess you better hide her in the cellar... ; )
35 posted on 03/28/2005 2:16:21 PM PST by ravingnutter
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To: PatriotGirl827

Thank you very much.


36 posted on 03/28/2005 2:16:30 PM PST by yellowdoghunter (Get or stay out of Florida, you may hurt yourself on vacation and then the state will murder you.)
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To: eartotheground
There is an open quesiton of what led to her original "event".

That's fast becoming the urban legend of choice around here.

The "open question" survived the malpractice insurance company full investigation. They had millions at stake and left no stone unturned. No fault was attributed to Michael Schiavo, just Terri and the doctor shared the blame according to the jury.

Terri's body has been secretly and illegally twisted and turned by some nurses under the guise of giving physical therapy. They admit to this in their affidavits. They would be the prime suspects if any new healed over wounds were found.

37 posted on 03/28/2005 2:16:32 PM PST by RGSpincich
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To: eartotheground

Lord have mercy on Judge Greer's soul.


38 posted on 03/28/2005 2:17:41 PM PST by Saundra Duffy ("Where there's life, there's hope." Theresa Marie SCHINDLER)
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To: eartotheground

Lets waste some MORE resources millions aren't enough.


39 posted on 03/28/2005 2:17:42 PM PST by justshutupandtakeit (Public Enemy #1, the RATmedia.)
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To: KaMax; Admin Moderator
Not an FR opinion. It would be much better to impeach.

Admin: ping to #22

40 posted on 03/28/2005 2:18:22 PM PST by DJ MacWoW (Life support. canned, frozen or fresh, it's good for you!)
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To: TheCrusader
Oh don't worry, Jeb Bush will make sure the evidence doesn't get incinerated. Won't he?

Sarcasm aside, neither Jeb or George will want to have an autopsy as it could prove they made the wrong decision. Their legacy is toast. This is an issue that won't be forgotten. It's on par with abortion. This is the war between the statists who prefer to kill those in their way versus those who believe life and liberty are inalienable rights.

41 posted on 03/28/2005 2:19:02 PM PST by LoneRangerMassachusetts (Some say what's good for others, the others make the goods; it's the meddlers against the peddlers)
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To: eartotheground
According to Florida Law.

406.11  Examinations, investigations, and autopsies.--

(1)  In any of the following circumstances involving the death of a human being, the medical examiner of the district in which the death occurred or the body was found shall determine the cause of death and shall, for that purpose, make or have performed such examinations, investigations, and autopsies as he or she shall deem necessary or as shall be requested by the state attorney:

(a)  When any person dies in the state:

1.  Of criminal violence.

2.  By accident.

3.  By suicide.

4.  Suddenly, when in apparent good health.

5.  Unattended by a practicing physician or other recognized practitioner.

6.  In any prison or penal institution.

7.  In police custody.

8.  In any suspicious or unusual circumstance.

9.  By criminal abortion.

10.  By poison.

11.  By disease constituting a threat to public health.

12.  By disease, injury, or toxic agent resulting from employment.

(b)  When a dead body is brought into the state without proper medical certification.

(c)  When a body is to be cremated, dissected, or buried at sea.

(2)(a)  The district medical examiner shall have the authority in any case coming under subsection (1) to perform, or have performed, whatever autopsies or laboratory examinations he or she deems necessary and in the public interest to determine the identification of or cause or manner of death of the deceased or to obtain evidence necessary for forensic examination.

(b)  The Medical Examiners Commission shall adopt rules, pursuant to chapter 120, providing for the notification of the next of kin that an investigation by the medical examiner's office is being conducted. A medical examiner may not retain or furnish any body part of the deceased for research or any other purpose which is not in conjunction with a determination of the identification of or cause or manner of death of the deceased or the presence of disease or which is not otherwise authorized by this chapter, part X of chapter 732, or chapter 873, without notification of and approval by the next of kin.

(3)  The Medical Examiners Commission may adopt rules incorporating by reference parameters or guidelines of practice or standards of conduct relating to examinations, investigations, or autopsies performed by medical examiners.


42 posted on 03/28/2005 2:19:21 PM PST by Misty Memory (Making a mental note.)
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To: justshutupandtakeit
Lets waste some MORE resources millions aren't enough.

Excuse me? I hope I misunderstand your post.

43 posted on 03/28/2005 2:20:09 PM PST by DJ MacWoW (Life support. canned, frozen or fresh, it's good for you!)
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To: KaMax
It'll make it so much easier for the pro-life nuts and bounty hunters to kill him.

Contradiction in terms, unless you intend to establish the rule from the rare exception.

44 posted on 03/28/2005 2:20:27 PM PST by Lexinom (You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him.)
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To: Brilliant

The truth was stated 12 years ago when the doctors told MS that she was gone and there was no chance. He didn't believe them and continued this hopeless fight for another five or six years until even he realized there was no hope.

The lies around this case are sickening. The willingness of freepers to get sucked into them is even more sickening.

Like their is some mystery about what "is going on in Terri's brain."


45 posted on 03/28/2005 2:21:10 PM PST by justshutupandtakeit (Public Enemy #1, the RATmedia.)
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To: ravingnutter

Thanks for posting that. I know they are coming after the alzheimers patients next. As the doctor was describing the latest MRI on my grandma, he said part of her brain is now liquid, reminded me of what they say about Terri's brain.

It is a comfort to us to know that God is with those who are suffering. We know He is watching over our grandma.


46 posted on 03/28/2005 2:23:02 PM PST by yellowdoghunter (Get or stay out of Florida, you may hurt yourself on vacation and then the state will murder you.)
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To: Javelina

I fully expect to have this charade continue for years. There will be lawsuits by the Schindlers against anyone who they decide to turn the mob against. After all there is a worldwide conspiracy to kill TS.

What kind of parent would put their child through this? I can't fathom anyone in their right mind doing this.


47 posted on 03/28/2005 2:24:33 PM PST by justshutupandtakeit (Public Enemy #1, the RATmedia.)
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To: eartotheground

Why wait for an autopsy? How about hair, blood and fingernail tests to see what she's been 'fed' -- the sooner the better.


48 posted on 03/28/2005 2:24:52 PM PST by Ed_in_NJ (Who killed Suzanne Coleman?)
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To: eartotheground
What the future holds:

People have their dogs put down, they don't starve them to death. And those of us who don't like to see people suffer will be given the horrible choice of "do you want this person to suffer for three weeks and die, or die painlessly at the end of three weeks with a shot?" And knowing that "living" is off the table because liberal judges have more power than God, we'll go with the less painful way.

I do believe this is the reason liberals say social security isn't a problem. They're going to kill us. If "life support" is feeding someone, children are on the liberal chopping block too. And most the people in nursing homes, and many like Christopher Reeves. Some retarded people need help getting food. Does that count too? What about the unemployed? They couldn't get food if the rest of us didn't "help" them with unemployment? And what about those on welfare? And the disabled? Without "life support" of help getting food many of those people wouldn't make it.

Dems are right, no problem with social security.

49 posted on 03/28/2005 2:28:24 PM PST by GOPJ (Liberals haven't had a new idea in 40 years.)
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To: housewife101

Of course the ME does not take orders from a spouse wrt an autopsy. But don't bother the nutballs with fact after all it is so much easier to believe there is a worldwide satanic Nazi conspiracy to do TS in. Why she'd be dancing today but for this conspiracy.


50 posted on 03/28/2005 2:29:06 PM PST by justshutupandtakeit (Public Enemy #1, the RATmedia.)
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