Posted on 03/28/2005 4:35:57 PM PST by Uncledave
CAUSE OF DEATH [Robert P. George ] As the end nears for Terri Schiavo, one question remains: What will officials record on her death certificate as the cause of death? The truth is that the cause of her death will be malnutrition and/or dehydration. But will officials tell the truth? Or will they sugar coat it with euphemisms, or even record as the cause of death something that did not cause her death, such as brain damage resulting from a loss of oxygen? Scholars studying the practice of euthanasia in the Netherlands noticed from the beginning a tendency of some doctors to misrepresent the cause of death in the case of mercy killings (many of which, we now know, were and are performed without the consent of the person killed). Will the same thing happen here? Will truth be another victim in the Schiavo tragedy? Posted at 05:05 PM
Cause of Death = Liberalism
They'll write heart failure or some such immediate cause.
(I think that covers everything for the pro-starve-Terri crowd)
They will write what Felos tells them to write.
And then the Bush in Florida will tell MS he's sorry he lost his wife.
Cause of death...Judge Greer
Undoubtedly it will be listed as "heart failure."
Cause of death: The Bush Brothers.
Don't you know how to rewrite facts until it fits the liberal mindset? (LOL, but crying on the inside).
Heart failure caused by high levels of potassium.
Method of Death: Murder.
My fitst thought
"Unfortunate choice of spouse"?
Probably not an uncommon cause of death.
Judicial Fiat: Death without constitutional constraint.
I really haven't been following this very closely. My next question however would be who's next? There are a LOT of people in our hospitals and asylums who can't feed themselves or have to be fed through a tube in one way or another.
This sets the precedent that all of those people can be killed as well.
I have a VERY bad feeling about this.
There are apparently plenty of doubts about whether she should be killed like this. The doubts should come down on her side, not his.
Check out the book "Litigation as Spiritual Practice" by George J. Felos.
Manner of death: INVOLUNTARY SUICIDE (JUDICIALLY MANDATED)
Cause of death: EXTREME DEHYDRATION CAUSED BY JUDICIAL TYRANNY
It's quite simple.
cause of death= natural causes.
Until you figure out how to make a vegetible eat her vegetables.
How many times do I have to suggest reason, and rational thinking to people?
Terri is a veg. She can't THINK, smell, feel, she has no- NONE- sense of awarness. She cant- CAN'T!- swallow food even if mushed up and placed in her mouth.
She doesn't even know she's alive. She's nothing but a corpse, kept alive by forced feeding, simply because her brainstem still funtions and keeps her heart and organs working.
Watching the news, I see the press say "she's still alive, RESPONDING TO FAMILLY MEMBERS.
What utter nonsense. She's been laying in the same position for 15 YEARS! and has responded to NOTHING.
Why? Because her brain is gone.
Now, lets review the issue. Why should terri be kept alive?
Because, her parents want to keep her alive. She left no living will to make her wishes known. All they have is a hearsay statement which the court is using to carry out her wishes.
THAT is what this is about. It isn't because this living corpse is ever going to get better, or has any sort of life, enjoys anything, or even wants to be here. I sure wouldn't.
(he's morally blind too...)
Spousal Sociopathism.
I don't even know where to start with you.....
I hope you don't ever end up being a useless eater, especially in Florida.
She doesn't even know she's alive. She's nothing but a corpse, kept alive by forced feeding, simply because her brainstem still funtions and keeps her heart and organs working.
And you are uniquely qualified to make these judgements how? You're a doctor who's examined her extensively? If she can't feel, why is she being given morphene?
Open wide and stick it in further. What type of spices make your foot taste better?
If they blame it on her bulimia, it will be hard to say she was of "sound mind" when she allegedly said, "no tubes for me."
The priest who ministers to this "vegetable" that you are so contemptuous of, reports that she attempts to bow her head (despite stiff neck and we all know why that may be...) and that Terri closes her eyes when they pray together.
WHAT kind of vegetable humbles itself before God?
Her brain function in regards to spirituality actually sounds a bit higher than some posters here on FR.
What you would want is immaterial to Terri.
Friends, admit the truth, the cause of Terri's death is the apathy of the majority of the American public. I participate at a forum that considers itself to be a Christian board. I was shocked by the lack of compassion for Terri. Many told me that it is "carnal" to be concerned for her bodily welfare.
It really matters little what will be written on her death certificate, so many Americans felt that she died years ago. They think that the situation she has been in, is not worth anything to anybody.
If it were up to me to write that certificate, I'd write:
"Martyred by good intentions."
Spoon feeding would seem a natural thing to try, were it not forbidden.
Here she is a few years after her "accident". I don't see her "laying in the same position". And she hardly looks like "a corpse".
This picture was taken while her "husband" was screwing around with other women. After this picture was taken he threw her into a hospice. A place people die. He threw her away like an old shoe. Once he got some cash. Cheaper place to put her. He learned well from his insane lawyer who thinks he hears the voices of people that want him to kill them by starvation.
Which part of the brain controls spirituality?
If what you say is true, then she has no right to die by dehydration and starvation. Doctor Cranford, who testified for Michael that she is PVS, says PVS patients have no constitutional rights.
Cause of death: Murder.
Be afraid. Be very afraid. The abortion "rights' went far beyond what people thought it was meant to do, and 40 million innocents have died and more die every day.
The finger of death is now on millions more: the "inconvenients", via "Legal Death by Blind Justice", aided and abetted by socialist death cult.
following is a letter I have sent to Gonzales (Gonzo)
Alberto Gonzales, U. S. A. T.
Dear sir:
You are allowing a precedent of LEGAL MURDER to become the law of the land.
Help me to understand.
? - your allowing the murder of Terri Shiva will NOT protect you ambitions for SCOTUS - it will sink it. People are slowly - but surely - beginning to understand where the hangup is.
The only "evidence" that this woman didn't want to be kept alive this way is the questionable word of a conflicted, abusive husband-in-name-only and his own brother/sister in law.
Others have testified she said the opposite when remarking on someone on life support (which she is Not - except by a law they conveniently passed to put a feeding tube on the 'artificial means" list, the better to murder her with) - by saying she thought it was wrong to 'pull the plug' saying "Where there is Life there is Hope." (Terri) Why is this being encored?
This one dubious hearsay statement by her adulterous husband, someone who has several self-serving reasons for wanting this innocent person dead - is the ONLY word that this murder is predicated on.
What about even the fact the she has been imprisoned illegally in a Hospice - that, at the time, Felos was on the board of! - denied therapy (against the law, and even medical treatment for infections - Legal?) and all the rest that proves gross neglect of a 'guardian'. In addition, this "guardian" stands to profit from her death.
It isn't that the 'family' agrees: her blood family want, at the least, her right to be tested - to have an MRI and PET, to look into the matter of ex rays that show a pattern of abuse, etc etc.
If you allow this to finish this way, her blood is on your hands, too - and in the future, countless millions of "inconvenients" . Abortion rights was never meant to become the holocaust is has. This "legal murder" will become a genocide of the incapacitated too and you will have countless millions of deaths to think about - to think: "I could have stopped it."
Either way = this will be your legacy. Who do you see when you look in the mirror?
I have read some excerpts. Chilling. does anyone know if or not he's Scientologist?
Agent: Too much Euphoria.
Cause of Death? Wilful muder. Death by starvation and dehydration
Terri is no more "dead" than a baby born after being oxygen deprived is dead when it cries and makes noises to be fed. Only she can't always make a noise and when she does, someone who profits by her death (husband, husband's attorney, Hospice) translates it to mean "kill me by starvation, it's such a painless way to die. I'm sure that's why Hitler used it in Nazi Germany."
I'll bet when you played "Life Boat" you were one of those who threw the handicapped woman overboard first.
I feel sorry for everyone who thinks that life is expendable just because the person living it is handicapped in some way. So what if she lived another 15 years. Michael got enough money to take care of her for an additional 41 years after the injury. He reneged on his promise to care for her.
He's a self-absorbed sadistic control freak.
But, since you're such a progressive thinker, you probably missed that nuance in the case.
Judgenfuhrer Greer: "My family and myself are excluded, fool."
HEALTHFUL DRINKS AND WARM MEALS SINCE THE ORDER-TO-MURDER-AN-INVALID BY JUDGE GREER
Murderer-At-Will Judge Greer 45
......................... Terri Shiavo 0
.......................... Lee Malvo 35
.......................... Scott Peterson 34
"What you would want is immaterial to Terri."
I strongly second that. Really, why all the polls trying to make a connection about what "we" want and what Terri and her loving family wants??
I think, in the interest of kindness, we should all print this out and make sure it's available should Nuzcruizer have an accident - or get old and incapacitated.
I would want to sure he/she-it's wishes were carried out. Maybe we could all get permission to pull the plug together
"Died of strangulation"
Expert/specialist Dr. George Eddington McClane, M.D. Director
Forensic Medical Unit Department of the Family Justice Center City of San Diego, stating in writing.. " Terri Schiavo's condition is consistent with attempted strangulation. Her healthy heart functioning for the last 14 years is not consistent with a "heart attack from an eating disorder" having ever occurred. Disallowing replacement of the feeding tube in this woman is homicide. Critical facts in plain view must have time to be reviewed. This can be accomplished in 7 days. "
Evidence showing how Terri was fraudulently admitted into a hospice facility by Dr. Victor Gambone in April 2000, admitting in a 2002 evidentiary hearing Terri was placed in into a hospice because Michael Schiavo told him to do so;
Evidence how Victor Gambone and Medical Director William Moore had signed and written on Terri's chart in 4/11/2000 -- "based on the patient's diagnosis and current condition, I expect this patient has a limited life expectancy of (six) months or less, if disease continues to take its usual course, and hereby certify patient as eligible for hospice" ..Yet Terri was NOT and NEVER was terminal or diagnosed with any DISEASE giving her 6 months or less to live...
Despite Evidence that Terri's so called "wishes " were only hearsay and not written testimony of them by her estranged husband was never Admissible under Florida's evidence code under FS 90.602.
Despite the fact that Michael testified that he found Terri face down and rolled her over, yet Paramedics (according to St. Petersburg Police Report) found her face down.
http://www.fight4terri.blogspot.com/
There are quite a few folks who would blame the Bush family. Amazing.
Hmmm, is that a fact? According to several nurses who took care of her and who swore in different affidavits, she can swallow. They fed her jello and a few other things and she swallowed it. They did that until the lovable husband told them to stop.
Also, a couple of doctors pointed out that the human body produces several pints of saliva and sinus drainage. That liquid would have choked her if she didn't swallow it or spit it out. And she did not have an aspirator to remove the liquid.
How many other half truths are there about this ladies' medical condition?????
I explained this "game" that has been latent-imprinted on our school kids for many years now - I used to warn about it 20 years ago. I knew this day would come.
I would like to see someone in the news connect these dots - since they are so puzzled about the vast majority that seems to want Terri "overboard"
hmm -maybe we could get to Rush, Laura Ingraham, FOX et al
Contributing Factors: Faulty ABC/Gallup poll questions to evangelical Christians.
I am a cripple, sitting in a chair, stricken by a disease.
I will eventualy end up with someone else making a decision for me.
I have worked all my life around handicapped people, as has my wife, who works in a death home giving care yo the old dying people in our society.
I have spend 23 years in the army as a medic, going to places all over the world, and have seen all sorts of "disabled' people who manage to make a life for themselves dispite their handicaps.
This however is a completely different case.
Terri is NOT going to get better.
She is NOT going to grow a new brain.
She is NOT even aware of her own existance.
She is a complete vegetable, and will always be so.
Her body is a sourse of amusement for her parents, this is true.
And, lacking a will expressing Terri's wishes, they wish to keep her corpse alive.
I support thier right to do so.
I will not, however, defy rational thinking, and suggest that this corpse called Terri has any hope of regaining a sense of awareness. Terri, her essence, her BRAIN, has vacated the temple 15 years ago.
And Granny, don't you DARE try tell crippled, dying people what their wishes are.
I am against Greer decission to do so, and I am against your opinion telling any of us what we want as well.
I fear the outcome of this because I fear my right to die being taken away as well.
If terri was suffering, in horrible pain, I would NOT support her parents fight. However, because she is merely a living copse, with no feeling, sense of being, It doesn't matter if her parents want to keep her around like a stuffed animal for their own comfort.
"Whatever Happened to the Human Race"
This is what Albert Mohler, author, speaker and president of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, had to say about this book, written by Francis Schaffer and C.Everett Koop.
_________________________________________________________
"We stand today on the edge of a great abyss," they wrote. "At this crucial moment choices are being made and thrust on us that will for many years to come affect the way people are treated. We want to try to help tip the scales on the side of those who believe that individuals are unique and special and have great dignity."
This year marks the 25th anniversary of Whatever Happened to the Human Race? by Francis Schaeffer and C. Everett Koop. The anniversary serves to remind us all of just how unaware and unawake most evangelicals really were twenty-five years ago--and how prophetic were the voices of Schaeffer and Koop.
Whatever Happened to the Human Race? was both a book project and a film series, and was the fruit of an unusual collaboration between Francis Schaeffer, one of the truly significant figures of twentieth century evangelicalism, and C. Everett Koop, one of the nation's most illustrious pediatric surgeons. They were an odd couple of sorts, but on the crucial issues of human dignity and the threat of what would later be called the "Culture of Death," they were absolutely united.
Francis Schaeffer, who died in 1984, was nothing less than a twentieth century prophet. He was a genuine eccentric, given to wearing leather breeches and sporting a goatee--then quite unusual for anyone in the evangelical establishment. Then again, Schaeffer was really never a member of any establishment, and that is partly why a generation of questioning young people made their way to his Swiss study center known as L'Abri.
Big ideas were Schaffer's business--and the Christian worldview was his consistent framework. Long before most evangelicals even knew they had a worldview, Schaeffer was taking alternative worldviews apart and inculcating in his students a love for the architecture of Christian truth and the dignity of ideas. Key figures on the evangelical left wrote him off as a crank, and he returned the favor by denying that they were evangelicals at all. They complained that he did not follow their rules for scholarly publication. He pointed out that people actually read his books--and young people frustrated with cultural Christianity read his books by the thousands. They were looking for someone with ideas big enough for the age, relevant for the questions of the times, and based without compromise in Christian truth. Francis Schaeffer--knee pants and all--became a prophet for the age.
Dr. C. Everett Koop, on the other hand, is a paragon of the American establishment--a former Surgeon-in-Chief of the Children's Hospital in Philadelphia and [later] Surgeon General of the United States under President Ronald Reagan. In 1974 Koop catapulted to international attention by performing the first successful surgical separation of Siamese twins. A Presbyterian layman, Koop lives in quasi-retirement in Pennsylvania. His surgical procedures remain textbook cases for medical students today.
Whatever Happened to the Human Race? awakened American evangelicals to the anti-human technologies and ideologies that then threatened human dignity. Most urgently, the project put abortion unquestionably on the front burner of evangelical concern. The tenor of the times is seen in the fact that Schaeffer and Koop had to argue to evangelicals in the late 1970s that abortion was not just a "Catholic" issue. They taught many evangelicals a new and urgently needed vocabulary about embryo ethics, euthanasia, and infanticide. They knew they were running out of time.
"Each era faces its own unique blend of problems," they argued. "Our time is no exception. Those who regard individuals as expendable raw material--to be molded, exploited, and then discarded--do battle on many fronts with those who see each person as unique and special, worthwhile, and irreplaceable."
Every age is marked by both the "thinkable" and the "unthinkable," they asserted--and the "thinkable" of late-twentieth century Western cultures was dangerously anti-human. The lessons of the century--with the Holocaust at its center--should be sufficient to drive the point home. The problem, as illustrated by those who worked in Hitler's death camps, was the inevitable result of a loss of conscience and moral truth. They were "people just like all of us," Koop and Schaeffer reminded. "We seem to be in danger of forgetting our seemingly unlimited capacities for evil, once boundaries to certain behavior are removed."
By the last quarter of the century, life and death were treated as mere matters of choice. "The schizophrenic nature of our society became further evident as it became common practice for pediatricians to provide the maximum of resuscitative and supportive care in newborn intensive-care nurseries where premature infants were under their care--while obstetricians in the same medical centers were routinely destroying enormous numbers of unborn babies who were normal and frequently of larger size. Minors who could not legally purchase liquor and cigarettes could have an abortion-on-demand and without parental consent or knowledge."
Schaeffer and Koop pointed to other examples of moral schizophrenia. Disabled persons were given new access to facilities and services in the name of human rights, while preborn infants diagnosed with the same disabilities were often aborted--with the advice that it would be "wrong" to bring such a baby into the world.
Long before the discovery of stem cells and calls for the use of human embryos for such experimentation, Schaeffer and Koop warned of attacks upon human life at its earliest stage. "Embryos 'created' in the biologist's laboratory raise special questions because they have the potential for growth and development if planted in the womb. The disposal of these live embryos is a cause for ethical and moral concern."
They also saw the specter of infanticide and euthanasia. Infanticide, including what are now called "partial birth abortion," is murder, they argued. "Infanticide is being practiced right now in this country, and the saddest thing about this is that it is being carried on by the very segment of the medical profession which has always stood in the role of advocate for the lives of children." Long before the formal acceptance of euthanasia in countries like the Netherlands, Koop and Schaeffer saw the rise of a "duty to die" argument used against the old, the very sick, and the unproductive. They rejected euthanasia in the case of a "so-called vegetative existence" and warned all humanity that disaster awaited a society that lusted for a "beautiful death."
"Abortion, infanticide, and euthanasia are not only questions for women and other relatives directly involved--nor are they the prerogatives of a few people who have thought through the wider ramifications," they declared. "They are life-and-death issues that concern the whole human race equally and should be addressed as such."
How did this happen? This embrace of an anti-human "humanism" could only be explained by the rejection of the Christian worldview. "Judeo-Christian teaching was never perfectly applied," they acknowledged, "but it did lay a foundation for a high view of human life in concept and practice." Through the inculcation of biblical values, "people viewed human life as unique--to be protected and loved--because each individual is made in the image of God."
Two great enemies of truth were blamed for this loss of biblical truth--modern secularism and theological liberalism. The secularists insist on the imposition of a "humanism" that defines humanity in terms of productivity, arbitrary standards of beauty and health, and an inverted system of value. Theological liberalism, denying the truthfulness of the Bible, robs the church and the society of any solid authority. The biblical concept of humanity made in the image of God is treated as poetry rather than as truth. But, "if people are not made in the image of God, the pessimistic, realistic humanist is right: The human race is indeed an abnormal wart on the smooth face of a silent and meaningless universe."
Everything else simply follows. "In this setting, abortion, infanticide, and euthanasia . . . are completely logical. Any person can be obliterated for what society at one moment thinks of as its own social or economic good." Once human life and human dignity are devalued to this degree, recovery is extremely difficult--if not impossible.
The past twenty-five years has been a period of even more rapid technological and moral change. We now face threats to human dignity unimaginable just a quarter-century ago. We must now deal with the ethical challenges of embryo research, human cloning, the Human Genome Project, and the rise of transhuman technologies. Even with many Christians aware and active on these issues, we are losing ground.
Francis Schaeffer and Everett Koop ended their book with a call for action. "If, in this last part of the twentieth century, the Christian community does not take a prolonged and vocal stand for the dignity of the individual and each person's right to life--for the right of each person to be treated as created in the image of God, rather than as a collection of molecules with no unique value--we feel that as Christians we have failed the greatest moral test to be put before us in this century."
In this new century, that warning is even more threatening and more urgent. The challenges of the twenty-first century are even greater than those faced in the century before. This should make us even more thankful for the prophetic witness of Francis Schaeffer and C. Everett Koop--and even more determined to contend for life. Humanity still stands on the brink of that abyss.
Wow, when did you examine her so that you could give us your expert diagnosis?
susie
you neglected to say that you are, obviously, also a neurologist and have have personally examined Terri.
But never mind - just go away...
I had the same exact experience on a Christian BB. I was surprised and disturbed.
susie
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