Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Public execution
The Spectator ^ | 2 April 2005 | Mark Steyn

Posted on 03/31/2005 5:25:20 AM PST by mal

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-5051-100101-150151-200201 next last
To: AmishDude

I'm sorry...why are you asking me?

If you have an opinion on a subject, share it.


101 posted on 03/31/2005 8:46:24 AM PST by cyncooper
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 99 | View Replies]

To: AmishDude

BTW, make sure you read the next post I made before making any faulty conclusions.


102 posted on 03/31/2005 8:48:10 AM PST by cyncooper
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 99 | View Replies]

To: Alamo-Girl; P-Marlowe

AG, I agree with you that Felos saw the Holocaust as a positive thing. Not retrospectively, but at its inception for its value in "moving us forward." Forward to what??!

Forward to a culture of death.

I agree with you that we all are marked by our decision to be for life or for death in this case.

The end result of this path is gruesome to contemplate. It will see valuations placed on individuals based on their abilities. There is great danger in having an "abilities based culture" that is willing to enforce that value with the death penalty.


103 posted on 03/31/2005 8:48:58 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 91 | View Replies]

To: nobdysfool

Ping to #103.

We are on the same side on this, nbdy.


104 posted on 03/31/2005 8:50:22 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 97 | View Replies]

To: xzins
I'm tired of the SOS. I know by his actions the character of Felos and Michael Schiavo. What I am doing is what I can do. Today I phoned my Congressman and requested that he consider initiating impeachment proceedings against Justice Birch of the 11th Circuit. And I don't care if he is one of the most conservative justices on the court, his viewpoint as expressed in the opinion rejecting the request by the Schindler family is to me is sufficient evidence of his judicial arrogance.

In resolving the Schiavo controversy it is my judgment that, despite sincere and altruistic motivation, the legislative and executive branches of our government have acted in a manner demonstrably at odds with our Founding Fathers’ blueprint for the governance of a free people — our Constitution.

Since when is the action of passing a law an action demonstrably at odds with the Constitution?

105 posted on 03/31/2005 9:05:10 AM PST by AndrewC (All these moments are tossed in lime, like trains in the rear.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: xzins; nobdysfool; P-Marlowe; betty boop
Thank you for your reply!

I agree with you that we all are marked by our decision to be for life or for death in this case. The end result of this path is gruesome to contemplate. It will see valuations placed on individuals based on their abilities. There is great danger in having an "abilities based culture" that is willing to enforce that value with the death penalty.

Indeed. And the timing is very important.

We, the baby boomers, are at that age where many of us will get Alzheimer's and begin wasting mentally. Even at the middle stages, an Alzheimer's person can no longer function in society and must be cared for pretty much around the clock.

Many of us have already seen our parents or grandparents go through this. Worse, by the numbers we are become a huge financial burden (social security, medicare) on our children and grandchildren. Whatever estate we have built in life is quickly liquidated for nursing home care and yet how few young people can afford for one to stay at home to care for the Alzheimer's parent?

Couple that guilt with the fact that many of these would be our legal guardians and heirs and we are all at a crossroad.

The 'right to die' can easily become a ‘duty to die’ in the minds of the elderly. The value of life can diminish per se. Or families could take a stand and plan for what is coming, chosing life - even a mentally confused life.

The U.S. could become a stronger Christian nation or agnostic like Europe, but it cannot tread water.

The spiritual risks are high for all generations involved. And the answers are not going to be easy for anyone.

To me, it feels like the Spirit is moving these days, forcing us to decide, to prioritize, as if to prepare us for things to come.

106 posted on 03/31/2005 9:09:08 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 103 | View Replies]

To: AndrewC

They are some kind of immoral, unethical heartless conservatism that balances fincial gains and losses with power principles.

There is no true American conservatism that is not pro-life, anti-euthanasia, and pro-Judeo/Christian.

I'm done with the rest of them.


107 posted on 03/31/2005 9:09:40 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 105 | View Replies]

To: xzins
There is no true American conservatism that is not pro-life, anti-euthanasia, and pro-Judeo/Christian.

Bump to that, xzins.

108 posted on 03/31/2005 9:10:47 AM PST by k2blader (The state sanctioned murder of Terri Shiavo happened on the Republicans' watch.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 107 | View Replies]

To: Alamo-Girl
"The U.S. could become a stronger Christian nation or agnostic like Europe, but it cannot tread water."
109 posted on 03/31/2005 9:17:32 AM PST by marron
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 106 | View Replies]

To: xzins
It is the belief of certain groups that every event in our lives is brought about through our own actions. If we're wrongly arrested for bank robbery, the theory goes, we must have done something wrong in the first place to be suspected of this crime, even if it's only being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Mr. Felos gives every indication of being a member of this group.

I see no evidence that the Jewish people "agreed to play the role of the lamb whose slaughter was necessary to shock humanity into a new moral consciousness."

The Jewish people were murdered by satanists.

And there was only One Lamb whose slaughter was necessary -- Jesus Christ.
110 posted on 03/31/2005 9:17:52 AM PST by Dr. Eckleburg (There are very few shades of gray.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: xzins
"There is no true American conservatism that is not pro-life, anti-euthanasia, and pro-Judeo/Christian. I'm done with the rest of them."

Me, too.

111 posted on 03/31/2005 9:18:26 AM PST by marron
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 107 | View Replies]

To: Alamo-Girl

To me, it feels like the Spirit is moving these days, forcing us to decide, to prioritize, as if to prepare us for things to come.


#####


We are witnessing a spiritual war for the survival of our nation.


112 posted on 03/31/2005 9:24:24 AM PST by maica (Ask a Deathocrat: "When did you decide to support death always - except for condemned criminals?")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 106 | View Replies]

To: cyncooper

I am sorry. I do not find a feeding tube to be less legitimate.


113 posted on 03/31/2005 9:31:25 AM PST by AmishDude (Join the AmishDude fan club: "You're a luminary!" -- Howlin; "You are a wise man." -- Torie)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 102 | View Replies]

To: cyncooper

The Pope is having trouble swallowing. Should he be disallowed his feeding tube?


114 posted on 03/31/2005 9:33:07 AM PST by k2blader (The state sanctioned murder of Terri Shiavo happened on the Republicans' watch.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 67 | View Replies]

To: Dr. Eckleburg
The Jewish people were murdered by satanists.

And Felos is a demon.

115 posted on 03/31/2005 9:34:54 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 110 | View Replies]

To: xzins
I'm done with the rest of them.

Here is part of the dissenting opinion on that decision I previously cited containing Justice Birch's arrogant opinion.

Justice Wilson in dissent ---

I know of no case barring Congress from so dictating, and Judge Birch does not cite any. Indeed, quite to the contrary, Judge Birch cites cases establishing that both our abstention and exhaustion doctrines are prudential. See ante, at 10. If none of these dictates by itself goes beyond Congress’s power to determine the jurisdiction of federal courts, I know of no doctrine that could convert their aggregation into a separation-of-powers violation.

116 posted on 03/31/2005 9:41:18 AM PST by AndrewC (All these moments are tossed in lime, like trains in the rear.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 107 | View Replies]

To: AndrewC; P-Marlowe
I know of no doctrine that could convert their aggregation into a separation-of-powers violation

ping to #116...thanks Andrew

117 posted on 03/31/2005 9:44:01 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 116 | View Replies]

To: Miss Marple

The poster was being intensely sarcastic.


118 posted on 03/31/2005 9:50:18 AM PST by Aliska
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: AndrewC
Since when is the action of passing a law an action demonstrably at odds with the Constitution?

When the law itself is unconstitutional -- as happens occasionally.

119 posted on 03/31/2005 9:52:41 AM PST by ContraryMary (WPPFF Member)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 105 | View Replies]

To: AmishDude

Why are you apologizing? I'm not the one decreeing no difference of opinion can exist. Unless you're telling me that's your position. Agree with you are damnation awaits.

I also said I was not saying I was for removal of the tube but as usual, that gets ignored.


120 posted on 03/31/2005 9:56:06 AM PST by cyncooper
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 113 | View Replies]

To: k2blader

Where did I advocate the removal of anyone's feeding tube? Especially by force?

BTW, the Pope can communicate his wishes himself so I'll leave it to him in consultation with his physicians on the bet course to take. He has consented to its insertion.

It makes me sick how so many race to make false conclusions so they can bear false witness against their fellow man.

It's very sad.


121 posted on 03/31/2005 9:58:03 AM PST by cyncooper
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 114 | View Replies]

To: AmishDude

Also, where did I say it's "less legitimate".

That is a huge difference, and one I did not say, from saying "equivalent".


122 posted on 03/31/2005 9:58:46 AM PST by cyncooper
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 113 | View Replies]

To: marron

Thank you for your reply!


123 posted on 03/31/2005 9:59:48 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 109 | View Replies]

To: xzins
I heard a radio bulletin announce that the Pope may now require a feeding tube.

While the RCC is what it is, the current pope seems to have been a decent fellow and I certainly wish him no ill. However, apparently he has written something directing that he be kept alive indefinitely even if he is in a coma or a PVS. I think it would be interesting to see those 'vatican lawyers' start to squirm if their pope settled into a nice 15-year coma with a trusty feeding tube keeping him 'alive.'

I have a feeling that current RCC dogma about feeding tubes would start changing right quick.

124 posted on 03/31/2005 10:00:59 AM PST by winstonchurchill
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: maica
We are witnessing a spiritual war for the survival of our nation.

Indeed. And we praise God because we are on the winning side no matter what becomes of this nation for He will never leave us nor forsake us.

125 posted on 03/31/2005 10:02:40 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 112 | View Replies]

To: ContraryMary
When the law itself is unconstitutional -- as happens occasionally.

And when is that determined and by whom?

126 posted on 03/31/2005 10:02:40 AM PST by AndrewC (All these moments are tossed in lime, like trains in the rear.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 119 | View Replies]

To: ContraryMary
When the law itself is unconstitutional -- as happens occasionally.

Look at post 116.

127 posted on 03/31/2005 10:05:03 AM PST by AndrewC (All these moments are tossed in lime, like trains in the rear.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 119 | View Replies]

To: xzins
It will see valuations placed on individuals based on their abilities.

And how much money they have. If the parents had money the courts wouldn't have prevailed.

128 posted on 03/31/2005 10:05:47 AM PST by ladyjane
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 103 | View Replies]

To: Pokey78
Thanks for the entire, wonderful article. Steyn bump to the top.
129 posted on 03/31/2005 10:06:30 AM PST by Ruth A.
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Alamo-Girl

True, but my heart grieves for future generations who may never know the potential that our country could be - forgive me if I sound trite - but in the way that Terri Schiavo could have had a very different last ten years if common ordinary therapy had not been refused to her, I grieve for the numbing and dumbing of our nation.


130 posted on 03/31/2005 10:06:55 AM PST by maica (Ask a Deathocrat: "When did you decide to support death always - except for condemned criminals?")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 125 | View Replies]

To: Alamo-Girl
The 'right to die' can easily become a ‘duty to die’ in the minds of the elderly.

I have known people who felt their parents had a 'duty to die' because medical costs were eating up their inheritance.

131 posted on 03/31/2005 10:08:25 AM PST by ladyjane
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 106 | View Replies]

To: AndrewC

Unfortunately, Judge Wilson's opinion is very much in the minority.


132 posted on 03/31/2005 10:12:16 AM PST by ContraryMary (WPPFF Member)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 127 | View Replies]

To: winstonchurchill; P-Marlowe; Salvation

I would far rather trust my health care and longevity, at this moment, to a group of Catholics than to a group of Protestants.

The first steadfastly oppose this new "abilities-based culture that punishes with death." The protestants barely spoke up except for a few loud corners.


133 posted on 03/31/2005 10:15:10 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 124 | View Replies]

To: maica
Thank you for your reply!

True, but my heart grieves for future generations who may never know the potential that our country could be - forgive me if I sound trite - but in the way that Terri Schiavo could have had a very different last ten years if common ordinary therapy had not been refused to her, I grieve for the numbing and dumbing of our nation.

I understand and share in your grief for the moment - but I believe that Terri's story is the beginning of spiritual dividing of the people and not the end of it.

The old adage of "one doesn't miss the water until the well runs dry" occurs to me. The people who were clammering for her death cannot "take it back" when the Spirit moves in the stillness of their minds, convicting them, in the days and years to come. It can lead to revival or stiffening of the neck - we'll see.

134 posted on 03/31/2005 10:16:29 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 130 | View Replies]

To: ladyjane

The love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Sadly, you have spoken truth. If Terri's parents had had a huge bankroll, I do bet they could have bought their way out of this.


135 posted on 03/31/2005 10:16:29 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 128 | View Replies]

To: Pokey78
That it is, uniquely, a crime to serve Mrs Schiavo a beverage underlines the court's intent not to cease the artificial prolongation of life but actively to cause her death.

Exactly. And all the people who agree with Michael Schiavo and Greer are morally (immorally?) complicit if they don't see this.

136 posted on 03/31/2005 10:17:21 AM PST by hattend (Liberals! Beware the Perfect Rovian Storm [All Hail the Evil War Monkey King, Chimpus Khan!])
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: ladyjane
I have known people who felt their parents had a 'duty to die' because medical costs were eating up their inheritance.

Sadly, so have I. And I have known elderly people who didn't want to go on for the same reason. I suspect those emotions will be greatly amplified in the years to come.

137 posted on 03/31/2005 10:18:53 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 131 | View Replies]

To: ContraryMary
Unfortunately, Judge Wilson's opinion is very much in the minority.

That didn't make it wrong. Now tell me again, who determines when a law is unconstitutional?

138 posted on 03/31/2005 10:20:44 AM PST by AndrewC (All these moments are tossed in lime, like trains in the rear.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 132 | View Replies]

To: winstonchurchill; P-Marlowe; Salvation

I would far rather trust my health care and longevity, at this moment, to a group of Catholics than to a group of Protestants.

The first steadfastly oppose this new "abilities-based culture that punishes with death." The protestants barely spoke up except for a few loud corners.


139 posted on 03/31/2005 10:21:49 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 124 | View Replies]

To: Pokey78
If he’d stop his shrill bleating for a couple of minutes, he might notice that the ‘theocrats’ who want Terri Schiavo to live include Jesse Jackson, Ralph Nader and Massachusetts Congressman Barney Frank, who’s not just a Democrat but a gay one.

Hmmm, Bahney Fwank seems to be on CNN almost daily bashing Bush. Yet, I've never seen him talking about being on Terri's side. Why is that, CNN?

Wow, I've finally found one thing on which I agree with Bahney Fwank. I'm absolutely shocked!

140 posted on 03/31/2005 10:26:04 AM PST by hattend (Liberals! Beware the Perfect Rovian Storm [All Hail the Evil War Monkey King, Chimpus Khan!])
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: AndrewC

In our country that is determined by the courts.


141 posted on 03/31/2005 10:27:05 AM PST by ContraryMary (WPPFF Member)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 138 | View Replies]

To: ContraryMary
In our country that is determined by the courts.

Like Dred Scott?

Did this decision strike down the recently passed law referenced in the decision or is the question still unanswered?

142 posted on 03/31/2005 10:32:02 AM PST by AndrewC (All these moments are tossed in lime, like trains in the rear.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 141 | View Replies]

To: AndrewC

OH, PUHLEEEEZE, I certainly hope you're not trying to draw a parallel between slavery and Terri Schiavo!


143 posted on 03/31/2005 10:35:59 AM PST by ContraryMary (WPPFF Member)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 142 | View Replies]

To: sockmonkey
Dr. Cranford described him as a "trained animal", and said he should have his feeding tube yanked so his wife could move on.

What?? An animal?? OMG. I'm beyond words. There is no shortage of these freaks posing as doctors who want to euthanize all but the most perfect among us as decided by them, Nazi-style, to the praise, no less, of others.

144 posted on 03/31/2005 10:39:07 AM PST by fortunecookie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: ContraryMary
OH, PUHLEEEEZE, I certainly hope you're not trying to draw a parallel between slavery and Terri Schiavo!

OH, PUHLEEEEZE, stop trying red herring. I asked you a question concerning the constitutionality of a law. Here is a hint from the previously cited decision.

Justice Birch----

In the instant appeal, our court and the district court continue to indulge this presumption and decline to address the constitutionality of the law which purports to grant federal jurisdiction.

145 posted on 03/31/2005 10:40:51 AM PST by AndrewC (All these moments are tossed in lime, like trains in the rear.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 143 | View Replies]

To: AndrewC

Then why do you insist on bringing up a red herring? Slavery, Naziism, and all the other over-the-top comparisons to Terri that have been made are emotional arguments unrelated to reality.


146 posted on 03/31/2005 10:43:45 AM PST by ContraryMary (WPPFF Member)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 145 | View Replies]

To: ContraryMary
Then why do you insist on bringing up a red herring?

Answer the question, is the law we are discussing unconstitutional as determined by the courts?

147 posted on 03/31/2005 10:44:58 AM PST by AndrewC (All these moments are tossed in lime, like trains in the rear.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 146 | View Replies]

To: AndrewC
Answer the question, is the law we are discussing unconstitutional as determined by the courts?

Unfortunately, with Terri's death the law is rendered moot so it's constitutionality will never be considered in court. I do think that is unfortunate, because a definitive ruling would settle the issue. As it is now, Congress can pass another law of this type again.

148 posted on 03/31/2005 10:47:31 AM PST by ContraryMary (WPPFF Member)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 147 | View Replies]

To: ContraryMary
Unfortunately, with Terri's death the law is rendered moot so it's constitutionality will never be considered in court.

Wrong answer. It is constitutional.

149 posted on 03/31/2005 10:48:29 AM PST by AndrewC (All these moments are tossed in lime, like trains in the rear.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 148 | View Replies]

To: AndrewC

In your opinion.


150 posted on 03/31/2005 10:51:21 AM PST by ContraryMary (WPPFF Member)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 149 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-5051-100101-150151-200201 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson