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(Fr.)Frank Pavone Discusses the Last Moments of Terri Schiavo
Fox News ^ | 3/31/05

Posted on 04/01/2005 7:47:01 AM PST by marshmallow

FATHER FRANK PAVONE, PRIESTS FOR LIFE, NATIONAL DIRECTOR: Last night, I spent about two hours with her until past midnight, together with Bobby Schindler and Suzanne, and then again this morning for about an hour and a half, and then right up until about ten minutes before she died. We were praying, most of that time was spent simply in prayer, in quiet, just caressing her, and assuring her, also, of the prayers and concern of so many people around the world.

Q: Was their any sign of response from Terri Schiavo?

PAVONE: Yes. And let me tell you, I’ll preface that by saying I visited with her several times before the feeding tube was removed. She was very responsive--closing her eyes when I said, “Let’s pray together, Terri,” opening them up after the prayer. Smiling, returning the kiss of her father. Turning her eyes to me when I spoke to her. In many other ways, as well, responsive.

Even today, although, of course, with the effects of the dehydration, her response was much less. Nevertheless, her eyes were open, her eyes were moving, and as I prayed with her, her eyes were shifting over toward my direction--even until the last moments that I was with her.

Q: Now, of course, we are going over old territory, but it’s important to note here, you’ve heard the doctors who suggest that that is all reflexive, that none of it was a conscious movement on her part--either eye movement or anything else. What do you say to that?

PAVONE: Certainly amazingly-time “reflexes.” I’ll give the doctors the benefit of their own expertise. But this raises, of course, the deeper moral issue. Give them what they are saying. What does that mean? That someone at a lower level of functioning can just be starved to death?

That, of course, is the bigger question here. This is not just a death. This is a killing.

And we have to ask ourselves, has our nation now begun to go down the road of killing those who are disabled, simply because somebody says that they want to be killed?

Terri didn’t die today from anything except the fact that her food and water were withheld for the last two weeks. She had no other underlying illness whatsoever. This is a case of throwing away a disabled person.

Q: Father, do we know what happened to the Schindlers, Terri’s parents, during these final moments?

PAVONE: Yes. We were in communication with them this morning by phone, and they were then on their way over here, actually, when we heard the news of Terri’s passing, and then all of us were together inside the hospice just moments after that announcement. They went in to Terri, of course, to embrace her body. I stood at the door and offered the prayers of the church, for those who are just deceased, and of course we sat and just consoled on another, and now they are grieving privately at home. They are going to have a statement a little later.

Q: Were you able to give Terri her last rites?

PAVONE: I was able to give Terri absolution last night. She had already been given the fuller last rites of the Church by other priests in recent days.

Q: It sounds as though, thankfully, there was not a direct conflict between the Schindlers and the Schiavos during these last moments.

PAVONE: Yes. Thanks be to God. Had she lived another hour or so, I’m afraid there might have been, because Bobby was saying, “I will be glad to be in her room, even with Michael there. I want to be there.” And Michael was saying, “No. I don’t want that.” But then she died before that conflict when any further.

Q: There was no reconciliation, then, between the two parties in this fight?

PAVONE: Not as of this moment. I have appealed publicly to Michael to reconsider his whole position here. And even now that Terri has died, I make that appeal to him again, because, again, this affects people way beyond Terri. This affects many, many people who are and are going to be in similar situations.

We all have to, as we grieve, examine our consciences, and say, “What are we going to do with the disabled? How are we going to treat them?”

Q: Some people say this is such a unique situation, because she didn’t have a living will, because there was some dispute about whether Michael had her intentions in mind, that this makes a bad case to base any kind of precedent on. What would you say to that?

PAVONE: Well, first of all, as far as how people should handle these situations, a healthcare proxy--namely, a person who can speak for you, if you are in a situation where you can’t speak for yourself--is much better than having a piece of paper. A piece of paper cannot interpret itself. People can begin arguing over what a piece of paper says, just as they can argue over what people said to them verbally. The best thing is to have a living person who knows you, whom you trust, whom you’ve discussed these issues with, and who then, when you are in medical circumstances in which you cannot speak for yourself, that person can get, from the doctors, the exact details of what can be done for you, and then in consultation with the clergy of their choice, make the proper decision at those moments.

So, in that sense, yes. There were elements here that led to the conflict. However, the solution is broader than that. We do have, here, a classic case of the question of throwing away disabled people. This woman was killed. She didn’t die of a terminal illness. She was killed, and it is a matter, therefore, of conscience, right now, for us all to ask: “Is this what we are going to continue to do with brain-injured people?” Because, whether they have expressed their wishes or not, obviously it can result in their death, as has happened today.

Q: Father Pavone, is the nation better off for having examined the issues that came to the fore with Terri Schiavo’s death?

PAVONE: We are much better off for having examined them. We at Priests for Life work with the clergy throughout the country. We will ensure that we continue to examine them in the teaching and preaching of the Church, and in the discussion among the people. We would be glad to be part of that whole debate as it ensues.


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: felos; finalmoments; insurance; pavone; terri; terrischiavo
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1 posted on 04/01/2005 7:47:03 AM PST by marshmallow
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To: marshmallow
"This is a case of throwing away a disabled person."

Undeniable truth.

2 posted on 04/01/2005 7:52:14 AM PST by anniegetyourgun
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To: marshmallow
Yes. We were in communication with them this morning by phone, and they were then on their way over here, actually, when we heard the news of Terri’s passing,

It had been rumored here that her husband did not allow Terri's parents to be in the room when she died. Turns out that was not true.

3 posted on 04/01/2005 7:54:05 AM PST by conserv13
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To: marshmallow

It can't be said to often that Terri was killed. Not only was she deprived of the feeding tube, which is not considered an "extraordinary" measure to keep patients alive, but she was deprived of water when it has been well established that she is capable of swallowing.

It was not tested, because Michael Schiavo would not permit it, but most likely she could have been kept alive by feeding her with broths and other nourishing fluids, even without the feeding tube. And that ability to swallow could probably have been further developed if Michael Schiavo had not ordered that all rehabilitation must cease and that she should never be given anything to swallow.


4 posted on 04/01/2005 7:54:47 AM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: conserv13

Actually, I think it does look like he didn't want them in the room with him when he was there.


5 posted on 04/01/2005 7:57:07 AM PST by conservative cat
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To: conserv13
Turns out that was not true.
??? Where did you get that? True, her parents weren't even at the hospice yet, they were enroute, but he would not allow her brother and sister (her family) to be in the room at her death.....only afterwards
6 posted on 04/01/2005 7:57:12 AM PST by TexasTaysor
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To: marshmallow
A piece of paper cannot interpret itself. People can begin arguing over what a piece of paper says, just as they can argue over what people said to them verbally. The best thing is to have a living person who knows you, whom you trust, whom you’ve discussed these issues with, and who then, when you are in medical circumstances in which you cannot speak for yourself, that person can get, from the doctors, the exact details of what can be done for you, and then in consultation with the clergy of their choice, make the proper decision at those moments.

Apparently, that's exactly what happened here, Father, with all due respect.

Bones
7 posted on 04/01/2005 7:59:07 AM PST by Bones75
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To: conserv13
It had been rumored here that her husband did not allow Terri's parents to be in the room when she died. Turns out that was not true.

>>>“I will be glad to be in her room, even with Michael there. I want to be there.” And Michael was saying, “No. I don’t want that.” But then she died before that conflict when any further. <<<

The family (brother and sister) were not allowed in the room when Terri died, they had been asked to leave ten minutes earlier by Micheal Schiavo (through an intermediary of course). The parents were on there way over to the hospice but they did not make it in time.

A sad situation.

8 posted on 04/01/2005 8:01:29 AM PST by american colleen
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To: american colleen

That is a very sad situation for all involved.


9 posted on 04/01/2005 8:02:53 AM PST by conserv13
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To: marshmallow

Father Pavone is the best spokesman I have seen so far regarding this case. He was on the Today show yesterday before Terri's passing and was most convincing.

I noticed this morning the Today show only had Michael Schiavo's attorney on. He said Terri's brother had to be restrained by police. There was no rebuttal guest from the Schindler family.

I wish the Today show would have asked Father Pavone as a rebuttal guest to that weasel lawyer.


10 posted on 04/01/2005 8:03:10 AM PST by ptlurking
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To: ptlurking
I noticed this morning the Today show only had Michael Schiavo's attorney on. He said Terri's brother had to be restrained by police.

How dare that nasty brother want to be at his sister's bedside when she died! Call the police! Call the police! sarcasm

11 posted on 04/01/2005 8:05:26 AM PST by TXBubba ( Democrats: If they don't abort you then they will tax you to death.)
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To: marshmallow

I've posted this on a couple other threads:

Who Will Remember Terri?
By JAMES TARANTO
April 1, 2005; Page A10


"Joe Ford, a Harvard undergraduate with severe cerebral palsy: "Like many others with disabilities, I believe that the American public, to one degree or another, holds that disabled people are better off dead. To put it in a simpler way, many Americans are bigots. A close examination of the facts of the Schiavo case reveals not a case of difficult decisions but a basic test of this country's decency."


12 posted on 04/01/2005 8:06:12 AM PST by diamond6 (Everyone who is for abortion has already been born. Ronald Reagan)
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To: conserv13

< It had been rumored here that her husband did not allow Terri's parents to be in the room when she died. Turns out that was not true. >

Only because they had not arrived in time. He refused the brother. I think we can make a pretty good determination that he would have said no had they been at the hospice. If he wasn't a POS before her death, he is now, just because of that. What kind of trash refuses a brother the opportunuty to be at the bedside of his sister at death? MS is just a big POS.


13 posted on 04/01/2005 8:08:39 AM PST by GOP_Proud (Those who proclaim tolerance have the least for my views.)
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To: marshmallow
a healthcare proxy--namely, a person who can speak for you, if you are in a situation where you can’t speak for yourself--is much better than having a piece of paper

I agree.

I don't think judges and doctors can be relied upon to understand and follow your written orders.

Choose an agent to speak for you in the case that you are incapacitated. (You can draw up an ordered list of people to speak for you).

14 posted on 04/01/2005 8:09:22 AM PST by syriacus (Liberals + logic - these two don't mix. Post kindly + carry a BIG font. We musn't starve bulimics)
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To: ptlurking

but, but, he had an AGENDA! He was promoting LIFE!


15 posted on 04/01/2005 8:12:18 AM PST by Marysecretary (Thank you, Lord, for FOUR MORE YEARS!!!)
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To: ptlurking

< Father Pavone is the best spokesman I have seen so far regarding this case. >

Agreed. I saw the exchange reprinted above. The Schindler's should keep him as a spokesman for awhile. He is very articulate without being extreme.


16 posted on 04/01/2005 8:13:58 AM PST by GOP_Proud (Those who proclaim tolerance have the least for my views.)
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To: marshmallow
I think this 'husband' is so cunning he has well scripted the whole thing, as it was reported last night on Hannity and Colmbs, he stayed at the hospice center since her feeding tube was pulled out; he was there everytime her mother and father and family came to visit her 'at their time' and had to wait for him to leave the room; and he had it planned to be there 'when his loving wife died'; he's a jerk and if he isn't fooling anyone but himself and that attorney of his is a death attorney, he's nuttier than Michael!
17 posted on 04/01/2005 8:14:28 AM PST by HarleyLady27 (Prayers ease the heavy burdens of the living....)
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To: TexasTaysor

Felos made it sound as if Terri's mother had abandoned her. He is scum.


18 posted on 04/01/2005 8:16:40 AM PST by massgopguy (massgopguy)
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To: marshmallow

BTTT!


19 posted on 04/01/2005 8:16:52 AM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: conserv13

Why are you trying to confuse the issue with facts? Everyone knows that if they were there, he wouldn't have let them in - so that's the same thing as if they were trying to get in and he refused, right?


20 posted on 04/01/2005 8:19:12 AM PST by lugsoul (Wild Turkey)
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To: GOP_Proud
What kind of trash refuses a brother the opportunuty to be at the bedside of his sister at death? MS is just a big POS."

Scott Schiavo talks on the telephone, Thursday, March 31, 2005, at his home in Levittown Pa., follow the death of his sister-in-law. Terri Schiavo. Terri Schiavo's ashes will be buried in an undisclosed location near Philadelphia so that Terri's immediate family doesn't attend and turn the burial into a media spectacle, a member of the Schiavo family said Thursday. ``If Mike knew they would come in peace, he would have no problem with it,'' Scott Schiavo, Michael Schiavo's brother, said during an interview at his home. (AP Photo/Joseph Kaczmarek

21 posted on 04/01/2005 8:21:19 AM PST by bjs1779 (I fed Terri small mouthfuls of Jello, which she swallowed and enjoyed immensely" Cna H.Law 1997)
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To: GOP_Proud
"What kind of trash refuses a brother the opportunuty to be at the bedside of his sister at death?"

Has anyone stopped to consider that, UNLESS their position is that Michael should have allowed them all to be in the room 24/7, any time they were not in the room [even if they just went to the restroom] could have been the moment of her death?

Or are you contending that someone actually knew when the moment of death would be?

22 posted on 04/01/2005 8:21:49 AM PST by lugsoul (Wild Turkey)
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To: conserv13

"rumored here that her husband did not allow Terri's parents to be in the room when she died. Turns out that was not true."

No, he DID emphatically say that her brother and sister could not. Good grief.


23 posted on 04/01/2005 8:25:59 AM PST by Fudd Fan (MaryJo Kopechne needed an "exit strategy")
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To: Bones75
Apparently, that's exactly what happened here, Father, with all due respect.

Funny, Michael Schiavo didn't remember Terris' wishes until after he received the settlement check, the amount of which was based on a calculated lifespan of 50 years of medical care for Terri, following the medical malpractice trial. In fact, he testified during said trial that he did not know what Terri would have wanted were she in said condition.

24 posted on 04/01/2005 8:26:42 AM PST by A.A. Cunningham
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To: conserv13
It had been rumored here that her husband did not allow Terri's parents to be in the room when she died. Turns out that was not true.

Felos has changed his tune "in public" several times, publicly.

He's said the schedule of visitors to Terri was drawn up by Greer so Michael couldn't do anything about it.

At yesterday's press conference, Felos said Bobby had been in an altercation with a cop, thus the cop would have had to accompany Bobby into Terri's room. Michael decided that having a cop in Terri's room would "disturb" her death (even though Felos has insisted over and over that Terri is totally unaware) So Bobby was not allowed in.

Today, on FoxNews Felos said that Bobby said (paraphrased) "Let us be in the room with you and Terri. You can have a cop in there to make sure things go smoothly."

Felos, manipulator of the audience that he is, even tried to make it look like the Schindlers did not care about being with Terri. He mentioned that Terri's mother hadn't visitedt Terri since Easter. (DuH. She was getting physically ill) Even if Terri's parents weren't around, Bobby and Suzanne were nearby.

25 posted on 04/01/2005 8:27:14 AM PST by syriacus (Weird George Felos repeatedly flicked his tongue out his gaping mouth when lying to the press 3/31)
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To: Bones75

Yes and no. What Father Pavone is referring to when he says a healthcare proxy, would be a written, properly witnessed legal document, giving the decision-making rights/duties to a certain named person.

Terri didn't have one, and we don't know who she would have chosen if she did. It wouldn't necessarily have been her husband. We don't know.


26 posted on 04/01/2005 8:28:33 AM PST by BizzeeMom ("We cannot do great things. We can only do small things with great love" Bl. Teresa of Calcutta)
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To: lugsoul

" Or are you contending that someone actually knew when the moment of death would be?"

Certainly ---- Before it was known that she died, the Schindler family spokesperson spoke to the press saying that they had been forced from the room and that they wanted to stay there knowing that she would die shortly. They had been told that death was imminent ---- within hours.

But of course, it would have been upsetting to Terri if they were allowed to stay ---- oh wait, she was a vegetable and had no clue what was going on. Which is it?


27 posted on 04/01/2005 8:29:12 AM PST by LibertyJihad
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To: syriacus

What's the story behind your tagline? I'd like to check that out.


28 posted on 04/01/2005 8:29:20 AM PST by frogjerk
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To: syriacus
Q: How do you correctly pronounce the nickname for Enthusiastic Euthanasiasts?

A: You hold your nose and say "EWWWWWW"


29 posted on 04/01/2005 8:30:26 AM PST by syriacus (Weird George Felos repeatedly flicked his tongue out his gaping mouth when lying to the press 3/31)
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To: Bones75

Father Pavone mustv'e done something right, because Felos continually ranted against him during his many television interviews yesterday.


30 posted on 04/01/2005 8:30:43 AM PST by ErnBatavia (I don't drink and FReep...it just looks that way)
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To: GOP_Proud
MS is just a big POS.

That would make a good bumper sticker ;o)

31 posted on 04/01/2005 8:30:51 AM PST by maine-iac7 ("...BUT YOU CAN'T FOOL ALL OF THE PEOPLE ALL THE TIME." Lincoln)
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To: LibertyJihad

I really hate to say this about a man of the cloth - but given some of the things that have passed his lips this week, I don't believe a word Fr. Pavone says.


32 posted on 04/01/2005 8:31:14 AM PST by lugsoul (Wild Turkey)
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To: GOP_Proud

"The Schindler's should keep him as a spokesman for awhile."

Fr. Pavone is a staunch defender of life. If you heard Felos in his tirade yesterday, he had vicious things to say about the Father specifically. Guess Father Pavone hit some nerves. Good, he needs to keep it up!


33 posted on 04/01/2005 8:31:50 AM PST by Fudd Fan (MaryJo Kopechne needed an "exit strategy")
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To: ptlurking
I noticed this morning the Today show only had Michael Schiavo's attorney on. He said Terri's brother had to be restrained by police. There was no rebuttal guest from the Schindler family

The objective of the Today show (as well as CNN) is damage control to Michael Schiavo's public image. If you want Fair and Balanced coverage, change the channel.

34 posted on 04/01/2005 8:33:31 AM PST by Taggart_D
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To: LibertyJihad

Someone posed a great question-if this was Terri's wishes then why was a tube inserted in the first place? With each day I hate Michael and now his obnoxious brother even more!


35 posted on 04/01/2005 8:33:34 AM PST by LYSandra
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To: lugsoul

>>I really hate to say this about a man of the cloth - but given some of the things that have passed his lips this week, I don't believe a word Fr. Pavone says.<<

I didn't say Fr. Pavone was the one who made the request for her family to be with her minutes prior to her death. It was, in fact, Brother Paul O'Donnell. You are not disputing that he spoke with the press minutes before Terri's death asking that the family be allowed in the room are you? If so, then you are the one who lacks credibility.


36 posted on 04/01/2005 8:36:27 AM PST by LibertyJihad
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To: diamond6

"Joe Ford, a Harvard undergraduate with severe cerebral palsy: "Like many others with disabilities, I believe that the American public, to one degree or another, holds that disabled people are better off dead

****

This guy is exactly right-on. This is the sad truth of it all.

I have had the unfortunate experience of being in a family situation where this was actually said, one brother to another. One was quadriplegic with end-stage MS, and just happy to be alive....a sweet loving man who was being cared for at home by his mother and my husband, as was his wish.

One of the other brothers said to him one day, "I'd rather be dead, than live the way you do."

He did die, about a year later, at the age of 42. Why do people begrudge the disabled their existence?


37 posted on 04/01/2005 8:38:13 AM PST by BizzeeMom ("We cannot do great things. We can only do small things with great love" Bl. Teresa of Calcutta)
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To: frogjerk
What's the story behind your tagline? I'd like to check that out.

That's about Felos's press conference, yesterday, after Terri died.

Some of us made comments about Felos at Felos Slams Fr. Pavone of Priests for Life (Accusing Him of Speaking "Venom")
I made a comment on Felos's tongue flicking at post #9

38 posted on 04/01/2005 8:38:25 AM PST by syriacus (Weird George Felos repeatedly flicked his tongue out his gaping mouth when lying to the press 3/31)
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To: lugsoul
... I don't believe a word Fr. Pavone says.

And it seems our credibility is tied to his.

39 posted on 04/01/2005 8:38:41 AM PST by 68 grunt (3/1 India, 3rd, 68-69, 0311)
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To: lugsoul
Or are you contending that someone actually knew when the moment of death would be?

Not the exact moment but within a timeframe of fifteen minutes I would guess. It's not like there aren't indicators... heart rate drops, very shallow respirations..pulse dropping to nothing, then coming back for a bit, eyes starting to cloud over..sometimes little gurgling noises, Blood pressure drops so low you can't believe they are even still alive.

Unless someone dies because a semi splats them in the middle of the road, or they have a massive coronary, there certainly are indicators.

40 posted on 04/01/2005 8:38:55 AM PST by sockmonkey (Theresa Marie Schindler, Martyr for the Gospel of Life, pray for us)
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To: lugsoul

what a shock


41 posted on 04/01/2005 8:39:01 AM PST by Fudd Fan (MaryJo Kopechne needed an "exit strategy")
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To: lugsoul

So, you're conveniently ignoring the FACT that your carefully constructed hypothetical was NOT the case, and that the brother and sister were in FACT there at the very end, and the FACT that the POSHINO Michael DENIED them the last few minutes with their blood sister?

If you want to use FACTS, fine. I thought the so-called "Wild Turkeys" subset of FR wasn't into trial balloons and hypotheticals.

Typical.


42 posted on 04/01/2005 8:39:13 AM PST by ColoCdn (Neco eos omnes, Deus suos agnoset)
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To: LibertyJihad
Was he asking the press? If so, why?

By Bobby's own account, he had been in the room for a while up until being asked to leave so an assessment could be made - the reason he protested leaving was not because Terri was going to die in the next few minutes, but because the last time it was "Michael's turn" to be in the room had lasted for several hours and Bobby did not want to be excluded again for that length of time.

It didn't take much for that to get turned into "Michael made the family leave at the moment of death," however.

43 posted on 04/01/2005 8:40:06 AM PST by lugsoul (Wild Turkey)
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To: lugsoul

His interpretation of events seems.... well, I don't know what to really say about it except to say that it seems that he was stretching the facts, IMO.


44 posted on 04/01/2005 8:40:30 AM PST by cajuncooker
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To: marshmallow
Fr. Pavone bump

Priests for Life

45 posted on 04/01/2005 8:40:44 AM PST by murphE (Never miss an opportunity to kiss the hand of a holy priest.)
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To: massgopguy

Felos is a scum at the least and has been for a very long time


46 posted on 04/01/2005 8:40:55 AM PST by TexasTaysor
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To: bjs1779
so that Terri's immediate family doesn't attend and turn the burial into a media spectacle

Actually I don't blame them for that. Who wants helicopters and media and Jesse Jackson running around at the burial?

47 posted on 04/01/2005 8:41:45 AM PST by conserv13
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To: LYSandra
I hate...I hate...I hate...I hate...I hate...I hate...I hate...I hate...I hate...I hate...I hate...I hate...I hate...I hate...I hate...I hate...I hate...ect...ect...

The new battle cry of the followers of Christ?

48 posted on 04/01/2005 8:41:51 AM PST by KDD (just the facts please)
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To: ColoCdn

By Bobby's own account, he had been in the room for a while up until being asked to leave so an assessment could be made - the reason he protested leaving was not because Terri was going to die in the next few minutes, but because the last time it was "Michael's turn" to be in the room had lasted for several hours and Bobby did not want to be excluded again for that length of time.

It didn't take much for that to get turned into "Michael made the family leave at the moment of death," however.


49 posted on 04/01/2005 8:41:55 AM PST by lugsoul (Wild Turkey)
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To: cajuncooker

That's a very nice way of putting it.


50 posted on 04/01/2005 8:43:08 AM PST by lugsoul (Wild Turkey)
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