Posted on 04/01/2005 3:43:07 PM PST by paltz
wASHINGTON, March 31 - The life and death of Terri Schiavo - intensely public, highly polarizing and played out around the clock on the Internet and television- has become a touchstone in American culture. Rarely have the forces of politics, religion and medicine collided so spectacularly, and with such potential for lasting effect.
Ms. Schiavo, the profoundly incapacitated woman whose family split over whether she would have preferred to live or die, forced Americans into a national conversation about the end of life. Her case raised questions about the role of government in private family decisions.
But her legacy may be that she brought an intense dimension - the issue of death and dying - to the battle over what President Bush calls "the culture of life."
Nearly 30 years after the parents of another brain-damaged woman, Karen Ann Quinlan, injected the phrase "right to die" into the lexicon as they fought to unplug her respirator, Ms. Schiavo's case swung the pendulum in the other direction, pushing the debate toward what Wesley J. Smith, an author of books on bioethics, calls " the right to live."
"This is the counterrevolution," said Mr. Smith, who has been challenging what he calls the liberal assumptions of most bioethicists. "I have been frustrated at how difficult it is to bring the starkness of these issues into a bright public discussion. Schiavo did it."
Experts say that unlike the Quinlan case, which established the concept that families can prevail over the state in end-of-life decisions, the Schiavo case created no major legal precedents. But it could well lead to new laws. Already, some states are considering more restrictive end-of-life measures like preventing the withdrawal of a feeding tube without explicit written directions.
(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...
Dehydration and starvation are cruel and unusual.
Be afraid, America. Be very afraid.
The laws of every state in the Union allow people to be killed as Terri was. That must change.
The law does not allow murder by starvation except in Florida.
The law does not allow murder by torture except in Florida.
How would you recommend amending existing laws to prevent a case like this, but still retain the right of an individual to refuse medical procedures (if you believe that individuals do have that right, of course)? I've been contemplating this issue, and it strikes me as difficult to write a law that would cover this case without being too broad. I may be approaching it from the wrong angle, though, so a different perspective on how to craft such a law would be welcome.
The New York Times is terrified that Terri's murder might cut back on their precious abortion rights.
On Fox News the point was made (I think by the guy taking Brit Hume's place) that some are beginning to think that the polling gave an inaccurate impression that the majority favored Terri's death by dehydration.
In my opinion, pollsters have NO idea what Americans think of this episode...they'll ask questions designed to get a particular answer, but they fear finding out what Americans (whether or not they have an advance directive, a DNR, a living will) REALLY think of those who directed that an innocent, inconvenient woman die from lack of water.
The democrat final solution to the Social Security crisis.
Read it and weep. These laws must be changed!
Simply remove nutrition and hydration as being part of a medical procedure that can be stopped. Euthanasia is evil and should not be allowed.
Make it the crime of attempted murder to withhold food or water unless the individual either had (1) a living will to that effect or (2) a durable power of attorney authorizing someone else to make the decision. If the person dies, make it a capital murder offense subject to the death penalty for all involved, both private citizens and government officials.
yet again the NYT is behind the curve with the admission that the Schiavo case WILL change law.
Amen!!!!!
"Already, some states are considering more restrictive end-of-life measures like preventing the withdrawal of a feeding tube without explicit written directions." Did anyone ever prove beyond a reasonable doubt (and that is the standard with an execution ruling by a court, except in Greer's court) that Terri wanted to die is disabled? [I didn't think so ... ]
"is disabled" should read 'if disabled?'
There are many people who believe in this type of killing. Some are FRiends. If they get into a PVS, they want to be killed. I'm guessing we have some convincing to do before we can get these laws changed. It may be comparable to getting abortion outlawed.
I don't think the judicial system is the way to go in eliminating these laws. If Terri's case doesn't convince you of that, I don't know what would. That and Roe v. Wade. There are laws on the books to allow euthanasia, and they must be removed.
Who, in their right mind would want to be positively linked to her drawn out murder by the powers that were and be? Who?
This is not a plus for Schiavo and his side of the swamp. Nobody wants to publicly admit, 'I'm with them.'
They're pariah for good reason, and unless they publicly repent, they'll remain that way.
Sorry, the NYT is no longer credible IMO.
First this case was allowed to get to this point because Felos is a pro-hemlock crusader. There was no true mediator trained to get the parties to a reasonable middle road. In addition there was NEVER a true attorney ad litem to represent terri seperate from the guardian.
The problem in this case is more a consistency of process. I get the distinct impression this was more wink and a nod between Felos and Greer than any substantive procedure issue. The appeals only concerned TECHNICAL correctness. (operation was a success but the patient died)
Additionally, if death is the objective then institute a jury review of just that issue.
These may sound more procedural but uniformity at the trial level is what is really needed. The process SHOULD have provided for better medical disclosure, the process SHOULD have provided for more medical examination upon request. There are any number of REASONABLE formulas that could have avoided this travesty of law.
A PROPERLY TRAINED mediator should have been able to give a reality check to BOTH parties. In addition, though the rules provide that mediation is confidential, the rules presently permit the mediator to report to the judge that a party is being unreasonable in participating in the mediation. Thus Felos' intrangitent (and borderline perverted) death facination could have gotten at least a report into the record. Particularly important when you have an attorney acting for an outside crusade that should NOT be concerned with the case.
I submit it is very easy to make law without being too broad, and without violating husband and wife sanctity.
We haven't really been paying the right amount of attention to the pro-death crowd, however, I think the light of day is beginning to shine under the rocks.
Seems her records were full of strange things with the broken bones.
There was also at least one prominent doctor that said she was NOT in a vegetative state.
Lastly, at least one doc who called her vegetative that the court liked had connections to the pro-death politics camp.
So lot's of controversy here, including a Contempt of Congress by Greer that Congress may lack the rocks to slap him with.
Off topic, but I have to laugh my arse off everytime I see somebody holding one of those "10 Million Jobs" signs. High-freakin-larious.
Another thread that is up has just said Greer rules everything closed.
Are you surprised?
This Greer is too much.
Greer couldn't seal anything from a criminal investigation.
The Florida AG needs to be in on this.
This is the 'smoking gun'.
Below is Terri's Hospice Certificate for Woodside Hospice House (***)
NOTA BENE: Please notice the following:
1) NO physician signed this Certificate for Woodside Hospice House.
ERGO: Michael Schiavo and Greer acted without a medical license.
ERGO: They had to murder her and cover it up.
2) Look at the "Terminal Diagnosis.
It appears to have been changed after the fact. It was clearly written while the
rest was typed, AND in a handwriting different from the rest.
In medical records, that is a sign of tampering. I bet whiteout is underneath.
3) The Certificate states she will live less than 6 months.
Yet they took $$$ from the insurance company(ies?)
and you know the rest.
ERGO: They apparently had to murder Terri to cover it up.
PART II:
BREAKING: Dr. Gambone (R) and Toast
Dr. Victor Gambone, MD, CMD, Terri Schiavo’s attending physician from 1998-2003.
* His name appeared on a paper stating Terri was PVS (permanent
vegetative state) but it was never signed by him. This was apparently
a fraudulent document.
* During a 2002 medical evidentiary hearing, Dr. Victor Gambone
testified that he certified Terri as terminally ill so that she could
be placed in Woodside Hospice. When questioned under oath why, he said
it was because Michael told him to do so.
* journals.aol.com/justice1949/JUSTICEFORTERRISCHIAVO/entries/333
* However, it states on the certificate that it is a verbal
certification, no signature. This would explain comment above. Must
be signed to be valid.
* Testified before Judge Greer that Terri Schiavo was not PVS and
was aware of her surroundings.
* Greer had asked Gambone to do an evaluation, but rejected his
findings.
* Gambone reportedly worked for George Felos at Woodside Hospice.
* Current president, Florida Medical Directors Association.
Education
Penn State (Medical School)
Pennsylvania State University (Medical School)
University of South Florida (Internship)
Univ of So FL College of Med (Residency)
Hospital Affiliation
Mease Hospitals
Morton Plant Hospital
There was NEVER a criminal investigation because nobody pursued it.
Wasn't till 1998 that anybody discovered the broken bones issue on Terri's side of the family.
By then, it was too late to have an investigation of a crime because the statute of limitations had passed.
The Schiavo lawyer tried to get the police to investigate and they said no.
If there was anything that called out for a congressional hearing this does.
I'm not talking about a criminal investigation about the broken bones.
I'm talking about a criminal investigation regarding a Conspiracy between Shiavo, Felos, Greer and possibly Gambone to commit homicide and committing the homicide.
If this is true, this is an outrage!
My concern with regard to this is that there will be those who will try to nullify living wills and end-of-life directives. Personally, I prefer to be "disconnected" once my life as I know it is done. But I realize that some want to stay alive at all costs. That's fine with me...I just don't want THEM to trample on my right to have my life ended when my appointed representative lets me go as I have directed.
Much as I like and support my President, I feel he was wrong to step into the Schiavo mess...as was Congress, Governor Bush and the Florida legislature. Some dangerous precedents were set here...and they frighten me.
The law does not allow murder by starvation except in Florida.
The law does not allow murder by torture except in Florida.
Take your demagoguery somewhere else
They directed the Courts to address this de novo.
Instead, Florida continued its torture and murder of a handicapped woman.
Tough to connect that one and be taken seriously.
Probably a good book or two will come out and make your point though.
" 9. Between September 1939 and April 1945 the defendants Karl Brandt, Blome, Brack, and Hoven unlawfully, willfully, and knowingly committed war crimes, as defined by Article II of Control Council Law No. 10, in that they were principals in, accessories to, ordered, abetted, took a consenting part in, and were connected with plans and enterprises involving the execution of the so-called "euthanasia" program of the German Reich in the course of which the defendants herein murdered hundreds of thousands of human beings, including nationals of German-occupied countries. This program involved the systematic and secret execution of the aged, insane, incurably ill, of deformed children, and other persons, by gas, lethal injections, and diverse other means in nursing homes, hospitals, and asylums. Such persons were regarded as "useless eaters" and a burden to the German war machine. The relatives of these victims were informed that they died from natural causes, such as heart failure. German doctors involved in the "euthanasia" program were also sent to Eastern occupied countries to assist in the mass extermination of Jews."
Official flag of Pinellas county, Florida - The State of Human Torture and Prolonged Starvation
HEALTHFUL DRINKS WITH WARM MEALS SINCE THE ORDER-TO-MURDER-AN-INVALID BY JUDGE GREER
Subhuman scumbag Torturer and Murderer-At-Will Pinellas County Judgenfuhrer Greer ..... 65
..................................................................... Terri Shiavo 0
...................................................................... Lee Malvo 49
................................................................. Scott Peterson 48
Life Expectancy (as of 3/3/2000): less than six months.
Well, Terri Schindler actually lived more than 5 years from the doctor's certification.
I would expect in the very near future that the word "Certification" be replaced with "Opinion" or "Professional Opinion." To "certify" means to be certain or 100% sure of that which is being certified. The language used is very misleading. If CPAs standards would not allow to use such language, neither should the medical profession. I shudder to think what their professional code of ethics says about this.
It's sick...and getting sicker.
I would not have lived for 14 days without food or water.
He would seems to be a fan of living wills for the same reason you think you are -- he would love to see you die, especially "under control" with the soft classical music playing and makeup applied so you don't look quite so ghastly, maybe even a bit ... serene on the morphine, like old Bela Lugosi-- yet not dead of lack of your bodies own inability to live, but because gee -- he or someone like him one day long before that day of "planned death process" convinced you, connived you, got you to entertain your own death fears and sign a little slip of paper.
A slip of paper! Your own will!
And then on that day -- like so many other people before you and after you who sign that wee little contract, eh -- your wishes right then, then on THAT LATER day -- they won't count a whit. And like so many at that time you will actually very much want to live. Some doctors in that field say most people in such condition do.
You find you do not want to die quite yet, for even when trapped in a body of atrophying muscles you can hardly control if at all, yet conscious and aware -- you have come to find you enjoy the little things -- the sense of nourishment after feeding, the occassional human touch, the beat of your own heart, the moisture of your own tongue. And what sublime ecstasy to be vistied by those you love. To hear the sweet caress of the human voice. You find -- even in that vegetative condition, that life is still loved. Even that there is hope for tomorrow of some sort.
Yet there arrives in the room one day, that Felos-kind fellow, kind smile and lanquid eyes upon you. And after -- for a period of days and hours, no more little wonders in your life -- no food, nor water, not even IV.
He waves that little slip of paper! There it is -- your own signature!
His probing dark spirit fluxes across from his eyes into yours -- his chilling eye pupils probe and lock in -- smiling he is -- and no relief you'll have from that ghoulic beloving.
Your own signature!
The horror! You WAAAA-AANN--TTT to LIVE!
Yet no word comes out, no sign from your body ...
Just the Felos-kind ghouls, sucking all that desperation right out of your soul, appreciating every second of that sublime and grotesque torture of your death.
ping for later read so I can send more emails to the President and the Governor.
Two things I did not know.
That Greer got money from Felos, and that Greer had connections to the hospice.
What connections?
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1371060/posts
Here's one, I'm going to go in again to search for the other.
What do you think of the argument?
I have just re-written my Living Will.
It now states:
"Being of sound conservative mind and body I do not want any human being in black robes gaveling any judgement regarding the removal of any tubes from my body. Such decisions are solely that of my spouse provided such said spouse is not conjugating with some significant other. In such case final disposition of my body rests with my bedpan nurse."
Also heard Rush say that his Living Will states that anyone removing his tubes will be immediately dis-inherited.Unfortunately, in my case that wouldn't stay anyone's hand.
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