Posted on 04/01/2005 4:19:40 PM PST by CHARLITE
Terri Schiavo's death is expected to have major political ramifications as pro-lifers declare war on the judiciary and galvanize for the coming fight over Supreme Court vacancies. "We will look at an arrogant, out-of-control, unaccountable judiciary that thumbed their nose at Congress and the president," said House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, Texas Republican. "We will look into that." The Rev. Flip Benham, director of Operation Rescue, lamented, "The courts of this land have become the tool, in the hands of the devil, by which the culture of death has found access." Radio talk show host Rush Limbaugh bluntly blamed the judiciary for "ordering the starvation" of Mrs. Schiavo.
(Excerpt) Read more at insider.washingtontimes.com ...
You BET we are mobilizing to change the laws and our Judiciary. Polly!!!REPORTING FOR DUTY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
P I N G
Aye, aye Captain!! Reporting for duty, SIR!
bump!
Well in the case of Terri Schiavo I don't see how they can impeach a judge, i.e., Greer, who followed the law.
I've already written to Frist, Elizabeth Dole (chair of the GOP Senate Campaign Comm.), her House counterpart, and the RNC, that I'm not giving the GOP one more dime until they break the Dems' filibuster on Bush's judicial nominations. I'm tired of lipservice.
Tom (Delay), did anyone in Florida ever prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Terri wanted to die if disabled severely? ... Sic the bastards, Tom! They (the rubber stamptroopers of judicial oligarchy) executed a disabled woman on grounds they wouldn't allow a mass murderer to be executed under.
Constitutional Option Bump!
Well, I'll ask you then, did anyone prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Terri wanted to die from whatever means if she was ever disabled? I'll wait for your proof if you think you can manage it.
"Well in the case of Terri Schiavo I don't see how they can impeach a judge, i.e., Greer, who followed the law."
It appears to me that Greer had an agenda. Now I am going to be totally self serving and say that only judges that share my agenda (pro-life, pro-morality) should be wearing the black robes. However, as things are right now, Greer cannot be impeached, but he should never be allowed to walk away without at least a severe reprimand - a resolution of the State's legislature?
There are thousands of FReepers. Aren't there? We MUST start a hootin' and a howlin' and force our representatives to pay attention to WE THE PEOPLE!
I personally want to energize Americans to this new reality, for our own secure future, and so that Terri Schaivo shall not have died in vain.
Char :)
well, see, the problem is - he followed his OWN law...sometimes, being a judge can cause one to fall victim to an occupational hazard for the field: perception of godhood
EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!! Legislating from the bench. This creep no more followed the "LAW" !!!!!
NOt only did SICKO GREER NOT prove beyond a reasonable doubt, HE STOPPED EVERYONE ELSE too....it was on HIS JUDGEMENT that everyone else, all the way to the top said " Terri must die"!!!! NO JUSTICE WHATSOEVER.
and let me add also - even tho' he is legally blind, that doesn't give him the right to be blind to justice. Do you not think it odd that he would swallow Schiavo's word that - AFTER 7 years, and AFTER formerly testifying in court - when suing for millions, he had testified that he had no idea what Terri would want - that AFTER he got the millions of dollars "towards 50 years for her care" he suddenly remembers, Oh, yeah, she told me she wouldn't - so can I kill her now -
- you don't think it a little odd the judge wouldn't think this at least worth looking into, at least worthy of listening to others testimony to the contrary?
You think he was following the "law" when he thumbed his nose at the Congressional summons?
He should be arrested...certainly you or I would. Is he above the "law"?
"However, as things are right now, Greer cannot be impeached"
Ah, but here you are wrong.
What I am going to say is pretty brutal, and you're going to say "But it SHOULDN'T be that way!", and perhaps you might be right.
Nevertheless, it is true, and it keys off of your statement "as things are right now".
As things are right now, we have an extremely politicized government at all levels, including a politicized judiciary willing to exert the full measure of its power.
As things are right now, the fight is over politics, but it takes the form of strict legalism. That is what the judiciary invoked over and over and over again, at all levels, to adamantly refuse to give de novo review to the facts. They did not HAVE to, and did not WANT to for a variety of reasons, many of them to assert judicial authority and independence at the end. And so they didn't.
As things are right now, the standard is STRICT LEGALISM, not careful moralizing.
When you speak of impeachment as being something that 'cannot be done to Greer' right now, you are thinking morally. You are equating impeachment with criminal indictment, prosecution and punishment. And you are observing that Greer has followed the letter of the law. Therefore, you are concluding, although he's used the law evilly, he 'cannot' be impeached.
But you're applying the wrong standard.
Apply the standard of law, strict legalism, which is "the way things are" right now. THAT, after all, is that standard that the judiciary has set and applied, ruthlessly, to lock a woman up away from the people who want to help her, put armed guards around her, and kill her by thirst.
LEGALLY, impeachment is NOT a criminal process. It is a political process. What is a "High crime and misdemeanor"?
Not what the criminal code says. There is no public prosecutor here. A "high crime and misdemeanor" is whatever the legislature doing the impeachment SAYS it is.
That's it.
And what is necessary for conviction and removal from office?
Not "actual guilt". That is NOT the legal standard.
Rather, the vote of a certain constitutionally prescribed number of legislators in Florida. (Same thing for the US Federal government.)
Greer is impeachable and removable, as things are, on a strictly legalistic basis - WITHOUT any moral considerations - if a prescribed majority of the legislature says so. It does not MATTER if what they say he did is not an abuse of power under some criminal statute. The legislature is not bound by anything to apply a criminal statute to impeach a judge. The LEGAL STANDARD is: "A majority of us say you abused power, and a majority of us say that, because we say you abused power, you are hereby removed from office." That's it. Greer is no longer a judge. There is no appeal to any judiciary. The Legislature has the final rule.
Is that MONSTROUS?
"Monstrous" is not a LEGAL standard.
Is that WRONG?
"Wrong" is not defined in the impeachment clause.
It follows the process, to the letter, for the requisite majority to declare an abuse of power based on its own declaration and remove the judge.
If the Florida Legislature did that, Greer is impeached and removed even if he did NOTHING, because the Legislature says that he abused power, and they define what that is, and nobody can review them. Period. That is the law.
The judiciary just used precisely that approach to murder Terri Schaivo. (I use the word "Murder" advisedly. The Vatican said that it was a murder, and I define my moral standards based on the Vatican, therefore, it was murder in my book.) "We say what the rules are, and based on what we say, she dies and we don't have to listen to anybody else."
The legislature can use the same logic to remove any judge for any reason. All it takes is the requisite number of legislators to simply assert the power to impeach based upon the power to impeach.
Is that WRONG?
Again, "right" and "wrong" CANNOT be the standard if we are going to adhere to the qualifier you imposed "as things are right now". As things are right now, right and wrong, good and evil, had NOTHING TO DO with any of the judicial decisions in this case. They asserted power. The legislature can do the same thing, and remove Greer for whatever reason they say they are removing him. Nothing can stop them. Nothing. No court. Nobody.
If they do it, he is gone. And it really doesn't matter if he is innocent or guilty of anything, because legally, that is totally irrelevant in impeachment. Impeachment is a political process, not a criminal process. There is no due process other than what the political branch that brings the charge and conducts the trial says there ought to be.
And that fits in rather perfectly with "the way things are right now".
First, per Ann Coulter's suggestion, have Congress pass a law that henceforth all judges must wear lime-green leisure suits in court.
The public is taking these clowns way too seriously. And the men in black robes have become legends in their own minds.
Here is the picture I want to see of ex-King Greer as they haul his corrupt a** away.
Impeach, recall, return to sender, whatever you want to call it... throw the bums out.
I read something the other day that said, in effect, "If we're tired of judges overriding the legislative process, we should stop electing lawyers to congress." Made sense to me.
I'll probably be changing my voter registration to Independent. That oughtta make the pro-life people I voted for toe the line. (yeah right)
Greer must be messed up in the head from all the substances he was exposed to during his time rooming with Jim Morrison.
What is the first step toward ousting the facist judiciary? Can we really count on all our GOPs in congress to represent our needs? I was told that the Supreme court justice that reirected the Schiavo case back to Florida was a Reagan appointee. Much of the GOP seems watered down.
I think it's already been shown that Judge Greer broke quite a few Florida State Statutes and Canons.
Unfortunately for Terri Schiavo, Jeb Bush wasn't willing to act like a Governor and lead Florida away from a death culture. Considering that Florida is a retirees haven, I would have thought that more elderly would take the initiatve to support Terri's right to life. If it can happen to Terri, it can happen to them.
I had planned to move to Florida in about 6 years when I retire. Unless the judicial situation changes and a Governor willing to lead is elected by that time, I will either retire to South Georgia or South Alabama. Paying State Income Tax is a small price to pay for protection from having a feeding tube yanked because I'm old and can't feed myself.
A humbled judiciary or bust!
"What I am going to say is pretty brutal"
No not at all. I liked what you had to say - enjoyed reading it(if that is appropriate to say about such a serious subject). Quite frankly I agree with you. However, I don't think the political will exists to impeach Greer. I guess that is what I really meant by "the way things are now."
I certainly hope I am wrong and they do impeach him. However, I'm not going to hold my breath. The last several weeks hoping and praying that someone in authority would ACT and save Terri, only to receive dissappoint after disappointment. Well, I am somewhat disillusioned. Not in God, but in the folks that should be listening to Him.
I don't know about you, but I am currently emotionally burnt out. I don't think I was even as destavated as now when Bill Clinton was elected.
If you can speak encouragement or give me a sound verbal slap, I would appreciate either, if done in love.
"Better are the stripes of a friend, than the kisses of an enemy"
Greer is a state judge anyway. It's up to Florida to discipline him. Still, following the law is no excuse, particularly when you didn't follow the law. Judges serve during good behavior.
I'm not a lawyer, but I have read numerous threads on these issues, including a number of extracts from Florida laws. It seems to me that Judge Freer has violated numerous laws, including the basic conflict of interest in pretending to be her guardian ad litem at the same time he is condemning her to death.
He has also offended against the Constitutional principle of the sacredness of life, and ancient natural law and common law principles that no longer seem familiar to our modern judges.
Moreover, it's an ancient common-law principle that there's law and there's equity. The basic principles of equity and justice have been violated in this case.
It looks as if Terri's early lawyers did a bad job and failed to bring up relevant evidence or object to bad decisions. That's insufficient in my view to justify killing somebody, and it's about the only excuse the various appeals judges have to justify their conduct.
But as numerous freepers have pointed out, they would NEVER have permitted a murderer to be executed on such technicalities. They would have found some way to reverse things.
(Denny Crane: "Sometimes you can only look for answers from God and failing that... and Fox News".)
Pro-lifers hear call to overhaul 'arrogant' judiciary
AND IT'S ABOUT TIME!!!!!!!!!!!
AMEN, CHAR
Article III Section 2 of the US Constitution
I am also emotionally burnt out and disillusioned.
But I am a warrior and don't stay in those states for long.
Mostly, more than anything else, I am DISGUSTED and in a towering rage that this is what the USA has been reduced to.
I blame the Democrats for being murderers.
And I blame the Republicans for being lying spineless cowardly snakes who had the power to stop a murder, but stood by for two weeks and lied over and over again that they didn't have such power.
I am angrier at the Republicans than the Democrats, too, because I always knew that the Democrats were killers, totally drenched in the culture of death, but the Republicans were supposed to be my brave allies. That was the deal: I support them for three decades, give them money, man the phones, poll watch, etc., and they do what they said they would do: protect life.
They didn't. It got to be crunch time, and they ran away from the political fire rather than charge into it and do the right thing.
Now, here's the thing. Some of us have charged into REAL gunfire in order to do our mission. THAT is REAL risk, of loss of life or limb. George Bush, Jeb Bush, the Attorney General, the Republican Senators down there in Florida wavered and would not act. Why? Because somebody might call them A BAD NAME. That's it. That's all that was ever at stake for ANY politician in this. Really mad people saying bad things.
And I am afraid that when a life is in the balance, it is your DUTY to piss everybody off, if you have to, to do the right thing. E-1's in the Army and Marine Corps risk their lives and limbs under literal fire to do their duty for strangers in a strange land. But American leaders, who order those men into battle, won't take the political field, where nobody can possibly get so much as a SCRATCH, to save a woman from being murdered by thirst right in the United States of America.
I am sorry. If you're looking for a guy to calm your nerves or try to tone down the rhetoric, that is not happening. What happened was an abject surrender on the part of Republican leaders. They abjectly surrendered to a threat that was incapable of delivering so much as a paper cut to anybody. People gave them dark looks and growled at them, and they abandoned the field to the enemy and let a citizen be murdered. That she died after that emotionally drains me. But the riposte to that has me full of energy.
The Republican Party is going to pass the Nuclear Option very quickly to prevent this madness from ever happening again, or it is going to collapse as people like me walk out the door.
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