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Getting Away with Murder by Death - (If this doesn't scare you, nothing will)
JEWISH WORLD REVIEW.COM ^ | APRIL 1, 2005 | Drs. Michael A. Glueck & Robert J. Cihak

Posted on 04/01/2005 6:56:34 PM PST by CHARLITE

Terri Schiavo is not the first innocent victim of murder sanctioned by judicial fiat, although the heroic efforts of her parents alerted the world about her heartbreaking death sentence.

Almost four decades ago, the fallacious concept of "brain death" was introduced to pry open the legal doors to the killing of another group of unnoticed innocents — people who agree to donate their vital organs at death.

People are encouraged to consent in writing to allow another person to benefit from their vital organs, such as the heart or liver, after they die. Potential donors overcome their discomfort about the procedure by imagining they will be giving away unneeded organs from their cold, lifeless bodies. But the real situation is often quite different.

According to the testimony of Dr. Paul Byrne, a neonatologist from Toledo, Ohio, to a Pontifical Academy of Sciences meeting in Rome in February:

"All the vital signs of the donors are still present prior to the harvesting of organs, such as: normal body temperature and blood pressure; the heart is beating; vital organs, like the liver and kidneys, are functioning; and the donor is breathing with the help of a ventilator."

Since organs deteriorate rapidly after the moment of actual death, the "brain death" fiction allows them to be removed while they are still alive and usable for transplant.

(Excerpt) Read more at jewishworldreview.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events; Philosophy; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: braindead; comatose; death; donors; organ; patients; pvs; transplants; useless

1 posted on 04/01/2005 6:56:39 PM PST by CHARLITE
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Comment #2 Removed by Moderator

To: GOPattorney

I guess I'll keep my organs to myself. Especially now that we know there are people dying to kill me as early as they can anyway. Shame, because if I knew they were going to try everthing to make me live FIRST, then I wouldn't care. But with Dr. Death running around, forget about it.

"Harvest" someone else dirtbags


3 posted on 04/01/2005 7:15:38 PM PST by ALWAYSWELDING
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To: CHARLITE
Char, this is the only thing you have ever posted that made me just say "Eeeeeewwww," "Yuck."
Oh, BTW has everyone heard the Zogby Report on the Schiavo tragedy?

79% of those surveyed DISAGREED with the removal of Terri's feeding tube. I can't remember how the remaining percentages were split - but it was between: "Agree" and "Not sure," (I think)

That slaps those TV twits who call themselves commentators, and those liberal talking heads, and the Dumocrats who said WE were in the minority. They got it wrong, wrong, wrong again. They just should have looked at the Bush 2004 map and figured the answers from there. Seeeesch! 79% WOW!

4 posted on 04/01/2005 7:17:01 PM PST by CitizenM (An excuse is worse and more terrible than a lie, for an excuse is a lie guarded. Pope John Paul II)
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Comment #5 Removed by Moderator

To: CHARLITE

I think this why prisoners are in the sights of the culture of death.


6 posted on 04/01/2005 7:19:37 PM PST by SaltyJoe (stay in a State of Grace)
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To: CHARLITE
A suggestion: a wrongful-death lawsuit against Michael Schiavo and maybe Judge Greer, alleging denial of due process.

Maybe Mr. Schiavo can be prevented from profiting from killing his wife.

7 posted on 04/01/2005 7:21:11 PM PST by Chairman Fred (@mousiedung.commie)
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To: CHARLITE

I agree, well said by the author.


8 posted on 04/01/2005 7:22:49 PM PST by TheHound (You would be paranoid too - if everyone was out to get you.)
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To: CHARLITE
I have thought donating organs to be a good thing. It is my understanding the catholic church allows it. If what is written here is true, they should not be allowing it.

It sounds like another form of legalized murder. I'll have to do some more reading on it before I would advise people not to do it.

Success stories of organ transplants have always seemed bitter sweet to me. Sweet because a person and especially when it is a child gets a chance at a more or less normal life, bitter because another human had to die for them to have that chance.

9 posted on 04/01/2005 7:25:46 PM PST by Aliska (Theresa Marie Schindler, December 3, 1963 - March 31, 2005, Never Forget)
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To: Chairman Fred
It is my understanding that Terri's parents are permitted 30 days, under the federal law passed for them, to file such suits in federal court. Given the track record of their legal team, we'll see if anyone realizes that.

If they file at the state level, the case will probably be heard by Greer.

10 posted on 04/01/2005 7:26:25 PM PST by ordinaryguy
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To: CHARLITE

New wording on Drivers liscense "Give me nutrition and hydration and leave my organs alone!"


11 posted on 04/01/2005 7:26:37 PM PST by eccentric (a.k.a. baldwidow)
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To: CHARLITE

bttt


12 posted on 04/01/2005 7:28:05 PM PST by diamond6 (Everyone who is for abortion has already been born. Ronald Reagan)
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To: CHARLITE

btttt


13 posted on 04/01/2005 7:32:37 PM PST by Christian4Bush ("In Common" for 1000, Alex: Beached whale, terrorist, juvenile murder 1. "Whom can U not starve?")
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To: CHARLITE

Just as some stories tilt too much one way, this one tilts too much the other way.

One of the doctors who examined Terri's videotapes, was a woman doctor neurologist, whose specialty was exactly to determine who are the patients neurologically so far gone, so that their organs could be harvested. She determined that she would never consider Terri as an organ donor, because she was not in that kind of shape.

This said to me, that doctors do make a neurological assessment and they are fair -- considering her specialty, she could have come down on the side of those who just couldn't wait to kill Terri, but she didn't.

This tells me that doctors making those kinds of life and death decisions, are indeed taking their diagnosis seriously and are fair.

I hope people don't change their minds about being organ donors on account of this story.


14 posted on 04/01/2005 7:34:42 PM PST by FairOpinion
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To: Aliska

Aliska, read my post 14, please,for a little more info.


15 posted on 04/01/2005 7:36:02 PM PST by FairOpinion
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To: ALWAYSWELDING; CitizenM
This story is actually the theme of Robin Cook's runaway best selling novel from 30 years ago. Do you remember it? COMA! It was also made into a movie. It was set in a hospital which was run by a true "Dr. Death," with "patients" rendered "comatose" by injection, and then warehoused in some secret rooms of the hospital, for "harvesting" when megabucks, paying "patients" ordered up whichever organs they wanted.
16 posted on 04/01/2005 7:36:05 PM PST by CHARLITE (Women are powerful; freedom is beautiful.........and STUPID IS FOREVER!)
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To: FairOpinion; ALWAYSWELDING; CitizenM


17 posted on 04/01/2005 7:39:05 PM PST by CHARLITE (Women are powerful; freedom is beautiful.........and STUPID IS FOREVER!)
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To: CHARLITE
EEG's measure cortical function, not brain stem function. The cortex controls purposeful movement and thought. The brain stem controls basic life support, i.e. lungs, heart, etc. Brain dead is a flat EEG (no cortical function).I think this is medically legit and these guys are wrong about this.

What I can't figure out is how closing your eyes for prayer, laughing at jokes and being glad to see your mother medically proves you have a flat EEG?

18 posted on 04/01/2005 7:45:54 PM PST by lizma
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To: CHARLITE; All

Several years ago there was a movie called "Coma" - everybody should rent that movie. It too will scare the hell out of you - it's about organ donors.


19 posted on 04/01/2005 7:46:09 PM PST by CyberAnt (President Bush: "America is the greatest nation on the face of the earth")
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To: Christian4Bush; diamond6; eccentric; CitizenM; mjtobias
Here's an interesting post from another article which I posted on News/Activism, but someone moved it to Bloggers & Personal, which I don't understand, because Kerry Marsala is an established, well-known author and not a blogger.

I think that her article will interest you, plus this reply from the poster.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/1375822/posts

Section 2 of the constitution of the state of Florida states :

All natural persons, female and male alike, are equal before the law and have inalienable rights, among which are the right to enjoy and defend life and liberty ... No person shall be deprived of any right because of ... physical disability.

Jeb Bush had all the authority he needed to remove Terri from those who would kill her and save her life. Indeed, his oath of office requires it:

I, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support, protect and defend the Constitution and government of the United States and of the state of Florida ...

10 posted on 04/01/2005 6:21:07 PM PST by mjtobias (Our love for Terri was immense; her parents' love was infinite; God's love is everlasting.)

20 posted on 04/01/2005 7:47:16 PM PST by CHARLITE (Women are powerful; freedom is beautiful.........and STUPID IS FOREVER!)
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To: writer33

Ping


21 posted on 04/01/2005 7:48:39 PM PST by CHARLITE (Women are powerful; freedom is beautiful.........and STUPID IS FOREVER!)
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To: CHARLITE

Terri Schiavo Before dehydration

God Bless you Terri in your hour of death

Let everyone who said your beautiful smile was fake be haunted by it for the rest of their days.

22 posted on 04/01/2005 7:54:41 PM PST by mjtobias (Our love for Terri was immense; her parents' love was infinite; God's love is everlasting.)
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To: FairOpinion
I hope people don't change their minds about being organ donors on account of this story.

Yes. If you are brain dead, you are not coming back, and, frankly, the hospital of today is going to refuse to care for you for very long. This is nothing like Terri Schiavo, who was, if the husband's doc are right, in a persistent vegetative state -- which means, among other things, alive and with plenty of electrical activity in the brain.

I am a member of LifeSharers. In return for pledging your organs for any other members who need them after your death, you get an increased chance that a high-quality organ will be more quickly available if you ever need one. This completely non-cash but free-market approach is disliked by some docs but is in accord with basic conservative principles. People who are pledged give organs to others are the only ones really deserving of receiving organs in time of need IMHO.

23 posted on 04/01/2005 7:55:31 PM PST by Steve Eisenberg
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To: FairOpinion
I would think it would depend on the integrity of the doctor and the hospital. But if a patient isn't truly dead, no matter how altruistic the intention, this does indeed bother me.

This has me upset on another front. It has made me lose confidence in the medical profession in general. I would like to know what my personal physicians think about abortion, etc., but shouldn't you want the best for their specialty when you need it?

What happened during the last two weeks has shaken up a lot of people who are not currently counted among conservatives.

24 posted on 04/01/2005 7:57:00 PM PST by Aliska (Theresa Marie Schindler, December 3, 1963 - March 31, 2005, Never Forget)
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To: CHARLITE

Actually in the movie there was an underground (double entendres not intentional) operation in the hospital which targeted young vital people undergoing simple operations. The operating room was rigged where the oxygen tanks were replaced by carbon monoxide (i think ) the anesthesiologist would see nothing wrong until he had to bring them out of the effects of the anesthesia. They all ended up in a coma. The bodies were all housed in a separate complex that was designed to take "care of them". Starred George C. Scott (as the hospital administrator) and Genevieve Bujold a french actress who played his girlfriend and the doctor who uncovered the plot. it was a good movie.


25 posted on 04/01/2005 7:59:17 PM PST by kvanbrunt
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To: CHARLITE

The state constitution is very clear. The Governor then swears to it.

It can't be made any clearer than that.

The governor has failed Terri and the people of the state of Florida.


26 posted on 04/01/2005 7:59:41 PM PST by mjtobias (Our love for Terri was immense; her parents' love was infinite; God's love is everlasting.)
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To: lizma
EEG's measure cortical function, not brain stem function. The cortex controls purposeful movement and thought. The brain stem controls basic life support, i.e. lungs, heart, etc. Brain dead is a flat EEG (no cortical function).I think this is medically legit and these guys are wrong about this.

Thank you. Three flat line EEG's, dead MRI, dead Pet Scan. These patients are Brain dead and on vasopressors to assist with BP.

27 posted on 04/01/2005 8:04:08 PM PST by armymarinemom (My sons freed Iraqi and Afghanistan Honor Roll students.)
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To: CitizenM

Most people (most is th operative word, here) will see that starving Terri was wrong - once they know the facts.

The others? Those are the ones you hope are not married...


28 posted on 04/01/2005 8:23:29 PM PST by freecopper01
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To: Aliska

(s)Does the patient have insurance? NO! presto! instant organ donor...(/s)


29 posted on 04/01/2005 8:32:34 PM PST by longtermmemmory (VOTE!)
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To: Aliska

The team which will harvest the organs for transplant is separate from the physicians and nurses treating the patient. Only when the patient is declared brain dead can the harvest team perform its function.

This article is full of mularkey!


30 posted on 04/01/2005 8:39:59 PM PST by bagman
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To: CHARLITE

BUMP


31 posted on 04/01/2005 8:40:24 PM PST by k2blader (The state sanctioned murder of Terri Shiavo happened on the Republicans' watch.)
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To: armymarinemom
I'm not sure what you are saying.

Patients diagnosed as Persistent Vegetative State, such as Terri, do not by definition have flat EEGs. They do have some EEG activity. Only the brain dead have flat EEGs.

The diagnosis of PVS should be legally supplemented with a functional MRI and/or Pet scan. This never occurred in Terri's case, MS forbid it. Britain printed a report that 43% of the cases of PVS based on physician observation (such as Terri's) were wrong.

From what I've read Terri didn't have a flat EEG but the death docs decided it didn't count and her EEG was flat.(Would love to see it on the net and give it my two cents! I've seen her reported CT. It shows damage, and that her vision was probably very poor (that part of her brain, her occipital cortex is really shrunk , why? That is not consistent with diffuse hypoxia, but with trauma) but not necessarily PVS.

Yet they didn't declare her Brain Dead (if the EEG was flat this would have been and should have the diagnosis but they knew they couldn't pull it off), they declared her PVS. Medically this is hogwash! It just doesn't make medical sense.

32 posted on 04/01/2005 8:44:09 PM PST by lizma
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To: lizma
Patients diagnosed as Persistent Vegetative State,

I was responding the the article and comments about transplant patients and not patients who are PVS. Very very big difference.

33 posted on 04/01/2005 8:46:30 PM PST by armymarinemom (My sons freed Iraqi and Afghanistan Honor Roll students.)
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To: CHARLITE

A friend of mine's brother was a transplant surgeon and he explained the whole gruesome procedure to us over a Thanksgiving turkey. On the following Monday, I changed my driver's license back to non donor status!


34 posted on 04/01/2005 9:00:32 PM PST by Vor Lady
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To: mjtobias

No. The Governor made a considered decision not to start a civil war.


35 posted on 04/01/2005 10:02:36 PM PST by Inkie (Surround Fallujia and start shooting.)
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To: Grannyx4

This is going to set the organ donor program back. I have never signed on, just for these very reasons.


36 posted on 04/01/2005 10:03:21 PM PST by Inkie (Surround Fallujia and start shooting.)
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To: SaltyJoe
I think this why prisoners are in the sights of the culture of death.

Actually, the state spares no expense when it comes to prisoners. My wife signed an organ donor card until she became a state medical inspector and found that prisoners, IV drug abusers with liver damage, etc were getting the organ donations. Neither one of us will sign a card now.

37 posted on 04/01/2005 10:11:43 PM PST by Ceebass
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