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Justice Ginsburg Backs Value of Foreign Law
NY Times ^ | April 2, 2005 | ANNE E. KORNBLUT

Posted on 04/02/2005 3:58:14 AM PST by Pharmboy

WASHINGTON, April 1 - Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg of the Supreme Court embraced the practice of consulting foreign legal decisions on Friday, rejecting the argument from conservatives that United States law should not take international thinking into account.

After a strongly worded dissent in a juvenile death penalty case from Justice Antonin Scalia last month that accused the court of putting too much faith in international opinion, Justice Ginsberg said the United States system should, if anything, consider international law more often.

"Judges in the United States are free to consult all manner of commentary," she said in a speech to several hundred lawyers and scholars here Friday.

She cited several instances when the logic of foreign courts had been applied to help untangle legal questions domestically, and of legislatures and courts abroad adopting United States law.

Fears about relying too heavily on world opinion "should not lead us to abandon the effort to learn what we can from the experience and good thinking foreign sources may convey," Justice Ginsburg told members of the American Society of International Law.

On March 1, the Supreme Court ruled 5 to 4 that the Constitution forbids executing convicts who committed their crimes before turning 18. The majority opinion reasoned that the United States was increasingly out of step with the world by allowing minors to be executed, saying "the United States now stands alone in a world that has turned its face against the juvenile death penalty."

Justice Scalia lambasted that logic, saying that "like-minded foreigners" should not be given a role in helping interpret the Constitution. House Republicans have introduced a resolution declaring that the "meaning of the Constitution of the United States should not be based on judgments, laws or pronouncements of foreign institutions unless such foreign judgments, laws or pronouncements inform an understanding of the original meaning of the Constitution of the United States."

In her speech, Justice Ginsberg criticized the resolutions in Congress and the spirit in which they were written. "Although I doubt the resolutions will pass this Congress, it is disquieting that they have attracted sizable support," she said.

"The notion that it is improper to look beyond the borders of the United States in grappling with hard questions has a certain kinship to the view that the U.S. Constitution is a document essentially frozen in time as of the date of its ratification," Justice Ginsburg said.

"Even more so today, the United States is subject to the scrutiny of a candid world," she said. "What the United States does, for good or for ill, continues to be watched by the international community, in particular by organizations concerned with the advancement of the rule of law and respect for human dignity."

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice introduced Justice Ginsburg at the event, the first appearance by a sitting secretary of state before the 99-year-old organization in decades. Dr. Rice described Justice Ginsberg as "a great and good friend," adding that they also happened to be neighbors.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: clintonlegacy; condi; constitution; criminal; filibuster; foreignlaw; getarope; ginsberg; ginsbergcountry; globalism; globalist; impeach; judicialactivism; judiciary; law; northamericaunion; oathbreaker; oligarchy; scotus; supremes; treason
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Dr. Rice described Justice Ginsberg as "a great and good friend," adding that they also happened to be neighbors.

I will now consider taking my "Condi in '08" bumper sticker off of the Blazer.

1 posted on 04/02/2005 3:58:14 AM PST by Pharmboy
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To: Pharmboy

These comments are a direct response to DeLay...The Judiciary is circling the wagons..


2 posted on 04/02/2005 4:00:33 AM PST by ken5050 (The Dem party is as dead as the NHL)
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To: Pharmboy
These morons protect murderers, terrorists and execute innocent Americans
as they GROVEL before foreign courts.

They are nothing but a 'pox' on America.

3 posted on 04/02/2005 4:02:09 AM PST by Diogenesis (Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum)
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To: Pharmboy

Oh shoot, why not give up and just write a World Constitution. It would be so much easier than all these pesky countries.


4 posted on 04/02/2005 4:03:40 AM PST by drlevy88
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To: Pharmboy
Ginsburg & Spector need to follow the dodo bird into the world of extinction!
5 posted on 04/02/2005 4:03:57 AM PST by dalereed
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To: Diogenesis

Ginsburg should be impeached--and replaced with Judge Judy.


6 posted on 04/02/2005 4:04:08 AM PST by Pharmboy ("Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God")
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To: Pharmboy
Our Krytocrats don't believe in the Constitution. They don't even consider themselves bound by American laws either. Its amazing people who should know better genuflect to them as though they were the Oracle Of The Universe.

(Denny Crane: "Sometimes you can only look for answers from God and failing that... and Fox News".)
7 posted on 04/02/2005 4:04:27 AM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: Pharmboy
"Judges in the United States are free to consult all manner of commentary," she said in a speech to several hundred lawyers and scholars here Friday.

Except the bible, it would seem

8 posted on 04/02/2005 4:05:02 AM PST by drlevy88
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To: Pharmboy

9 posted on 04/02/2005 4:05:34 AM PST by peyton randolph (Warning! It is illegal to fatwah a camel in all 50 states)
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To: Pharmboy

Some serious thought needs to go into possible legal avenues to have the hag of the ACLU removed from the bench.


10 posted on 04/02/2005 4:05:39 AM PST by SpaceBar
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To: drlevy88
'Le worm' aka Jacq Chirac is way ahead of you on that one!

Mark my words, his international tax thing is not the end, but the start of it. And they and their friends will not stop until they created One World Government, in the hands of Kofi and his Korrupt Klan of murderers, tyrants and dictators. One of the first things they need, is for international law to apply everywhere, and their Supreme Court collaborators are hard at work at that.

11 posted on 04/02/2005 4:06:15 AM PST by William of Orange (Mr. T for president! I pity the fool who don' vote for Mr. T!)
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To: ken5050

All kidding aside, this idiot has got to go.

I would say let's start an impeachment drive, but I know that will never happen. Too many anti Constitutionists out there support her stupid logic.

The good news is this: the old fool is just that, an old fool. Hopefully, she will retire soon.


12 posted on 04/02/2005 4:06:18 AM PST by Al Gator (Remember to pillage BEFORE you burn!)
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To: drlevy88
The Colorado Supremes last week tossed out a death sentence cause jurors had the effrontery to consult The Bible in reaching a verdict.

(Denny Crane: "Sometimes you can only look for answers from God and failing that... and Fox News".)
13 posted on 04/02/2005 4:07:19 AM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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Comment #14 Removed by Moderator

To: Pharmboy

This is scary folks.


15 posted on 04/02/2005 4:07:49 AM PST by maxter (I)
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To: drlevy88
Good point. They should consult the Constitution, perhaps.

The arrogance of this little troll of a woman...

16 posted on 04/02/2005 4:07:50 AM PST by Pharmboy ("Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God")
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To: SpaceBar

Breyer is just as bad.


17 posted on 04/02/2005 4:07:56 AM PST by Huck (:-)
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To: drlevy88

"Judges in the United States are free to consult all manner of commentary," she said in a speech to several hundred lawyers and scholars here Friday.
-----
She's admitting she's making it up on the fly. This renders our Constitution largely meaningless. This wicked
woman should have never been confirmed. She took an oath. This is why we must keep the filibuster.IMO


18 posted on 04/02/2005 4:10:52 AM PST by Finalapproach29er (America is gradually becoming the Godless,out-of-control golden-calf scene,in "The Ten Commandments")
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Comment #19 Removed by Moderator

To: Al Gator
I would say let's start an impeachment drive, but I know that will never happen.

Ginsburg's husband is a major tax law attorney. Save Ross Perot big bucks once upon a time. I'm convinced that the Ginsburg selection for SCOTUS was pay off in part by Clinton to Perot for ensuring 41 went down in flames in the '92 election.

20 posted on 04/02/2005 4:12:28 AM PST by peyton randolph (Warning! It is illegal to fatwah a camel in all 50 states)
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To: Pharmboy
Can anyone point to any United States legislation that gives her or the court this authority?
21 posted on 04/02/2005 4:12:57 AM PST by cbkaty
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To: Pharmboy

Question is, does Condi agree with this?


22 posted on 04/02/2005 4:15:30 AM PST by maxter (I)
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To: Pharmboy
"the United States system should, if anything, consider international law more often."

Of course! And not merely the judicial branch of government!

The United States system should also consider the wishes of the international community by letting everyone in the world have a vote in U.S. elections--federal, state, local, et al.

And furthermore! The executive branch! Why should we not take advantage of such international luminaries as...say...Kofi Annan or Osama bin Laden or Jacques Chirac or Kim Jon-Il and allow the people of the world to elect them to the U.S. presidency?

(You know. The more you hear from Leftist morons like Ginsberg the more you shake your head and wonder how the human race has managed as well as it has.)

Hey! Here's a good idea, Ruth! Let's let the United Nations interpret the Constitution for us!

What am I saying? This nitwit will think it's a great idea!

23 posted on 04/02/2005 4:16:33 AM PST by Savage Beast (There is nothing liberal about the Left!)
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To: Pharmboy
Making laws is the duty of the Congress. They are the only ones who have to consider foreign opinion. They of course are answerable to THE PEOPLE so if THE PEOPLE want to follow a foreign lead then so will Congress. For judges to interpret laws any way other than as they are written by representatives of THE PEOPLE is UNCONSTITUTIONAL. If judges don't follow the Constitution THE PEOPLE have recourse through the Congress to remove them via the impeachment process. Correct me if I am wrong... I think this is 9th grade Civics.

The problem is that these judges are "making" laws that 40% of THE PEOPLE and most of the press agree with, and, since this 40% can't assert their will any other way, they support, and will continue to support, the Kritocracy now in place. Which is, in a nut shell, why the Democrats in the Senate are opposing Bush nominees on an ideological rather than a qualification (experience and morals) basis.

I feel much better now!
24 posted on 04/02/2005 4:16:49 AM PST by RedEyeJack
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To: maxter
That's precisely what bothers me. If Condi is or is becoming an Internationalista then count me out on her for Veep in '08 (and we all know she can't win w/o me).
25 posted on 04/02/2005 4:19:04 AM PST by Pharmboy ("Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God")
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To: peyton randolph

Hmmm...very innaresting. I thought Perot had problems with them thar Jews. But, I guess not as tax lawyers.


26 posted on 04/02/2005 4:20:31 AM PST by Pharmboy ("Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God")
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To: Pharmboy
Justice Scalia lambasted that logic, saying that "like-minded foreigners" should not be given a role in helping interpret the Constitution.

I couldn't begin to estimate the number of Supreme Court decisions which included quotes from the writings of Sir William Blackstone in their decisions. I suppose Justice Scalia would be ripping apart Chief Justice Marshall for that as well.

27 posted on 04/02/2005 4:20:36 AM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: Pharmboy

I WANT MY CONSTITUTION BACK! Without it we've got nothing by tyranny by the judiciary. Their being limited by the Constitution is required for any balance of powers; ohterwise, they can decide anything and are defined as dectators. Any judge, on any level, who makes a decision based on Anything except our Constituion is violating our law and MUST BE IMPEACHED!!


28 posted on 04/02/2005 4:24:03 AM PST by SouthCarolinaKit
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To: Pharmboy
Judges in the United States are free to consult all manner of commentary," she said in a speech to several hundred lawyers and scholars here Friday.

Governors and Presidents of the United States are free to enforce or not enforce any court decisions of their state or federal judiciary.

Would you like to play a game?

How about global thermonuclear war?

(This references an old movie about a boy hacking into the Pentagon's computer--in my view these justices have "hacked" into the Constitution and are playing with fire.)
29 posted on 04/02/2005 4:24:13 AM PST by cgbg (Fire the Trustees of the Social Security Trust Fund with no money in it!)
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To: Non-Sequitur
Well, at least he was English, and that is the Mother Country, after all.
30 posted on 04/02/2005 4:24:37 AM PST by Pharmboy ("Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God")
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To: Pharmboy

She should be impeached, for abuse of powers; the highest crime a judge can commit, is to operate outside the authority of the Constitution, and she has confessed to doing just that.; all federal agents, and that includes all federal judges, have only the powers authorized to them, and that does not include such consultations of foreign commentaries as she has described. Not to mention, that she is operating in violation of her oath.


31 posted on 04/02/2005 4:25:00 AM PST by First_Salute (May God save our democratic-republican government, from a government by judiciary.)
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To: Pharmboy
Well, at least he was English, and that is the Mother Country, after all.

And in the Roper v Simmons decision, the court referenced the "Brief for Human Rights Committee of the Bar of England and Wales" so it's OK, right? Being from the Mother Country and all?

32 posted on 04/02/2005 4:27:40 AM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: Pharmboy
After a strongly worded dissent in a juvenile death penalty case from Justice Antonin Scalia last month that accused the court of putting too much faith in international opinion, Justice Ginsberg said the United States system should, if anything, consider international law more often.

She must be removed..

33 posted on 04/02/2005 4:28:40 AM PST by cardinal4 (George W Bush-Bringing a new democracy every term..)
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To: Pharmboy

Isn't there a very pointed FOREIGN obolisque somewhere that we could perch her putootie on with some cray glue somewhere as a particularly patriotic performance?


34 posted on 04/02/2005 4:30:54 AM PST by Quix (HAVING A FORM of GODLINESS but DENYING ITS POWER. 2 TIM 3:5)
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To: Diogenesis

"The notion that it is improper to look beyond the borders of the United States in grappling with hard questions has a certain kinship to the view that the U.S. Constitution is a document essentially frozen in time as of the date of its ratification," Justice Ginsburg said.

No constructionist she.
We knew this of course, but it's always good to get it
from the horse's mouth.


35 posted on 04/02/2005 4:31:59 AM PST by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: Non-Sequitur
Well, actually, I was being a wise *ss. I know nothing about the history of bringing in foreign law and interpretation to US judicial decisions, and it's not OK...it's just that England is less foreign than other countries (special relationship and all that).

And, there's plenty of awful decisions made by the Supremes and lower courts without the help of ex-US courts. There are many issues upon which we must take back the courts and the country.

36 posted on 04/02/2005 4:33:37 AM PST by Pharmboy ("Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God")
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To: Pharmboy
The Oath of Office for a Supreme Court Justice:

"I, [NAME], do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will administer justice without respect to persons, and do equal right to the poor and to the rich, and that I will faithfully and impartially discharge and perform all the duties incumbent upon me as [TITLE] under the Constitution and laws of the United States. So help me God."

She should be impeached.

37 posted on 04/02/2005 4:35:08 AM PST by Mannaggia l'America
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To: peyton randolph

I think there is more to what you say than anyone knows.

The Klintonistas were the most incestuous band of hoodlums ever to cross the political stage. And Ginsberg is just one of them.


38 posted on 04/02/2005 4:35:08 AM PST by Al Gator (Remember to pillage BEFORE you burn!)
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To: tet68
the view that the U.S. Constitution is a document essentially frozen in time as of the date of its ratification

A view, of course, which is held by no one.

Typical straw man.

The Constitution provides for its own amendment.

39 posted on 04/02/2005 4:35:52 AM PST by Jim Noble (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God)
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To: tet68

There was a C-span show on this last week with the head of the DC court of appeals also named Ginsberg. He was stating quite clearly that there is no body of International Law to consult with any clarity. It's only the prevailing sentiment of the international community as divined be the person hoping to find a rationale for their position. It was quite a show.


40 posted on 04/02/2005 4:36:14 AM PST by Thebaddog (Dawgs off the coffee table.)
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To: Pharmboy

Pull heer feeding tube!


41 posted on 04/02/2005 4:38:52 AM PST by Realist
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To: Al Gator

Ain't going to happen.
She will stay on as a vegetable until another dim is in the white house.
You think she'd let G.W. choose another member of the supremes?
Chief justice is obviously about to go as are a few others.
The next few years we are all going to learn what Mr. Bush and the rest of the repubs are all about.

I for one think the lot collectively couldn't equal one of Ollie Norths nuts.


42 posted on 04/02/2005 4:39:04 AM PST by Joe Boucher (an enemy of islam)
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To: Mannaggia l'America

Yep...seems clear to me. Why can't Ruth Bader Ginsburg understand that? I was always told she's a genius, but she sure sounds like a dumbass to me.


43 posted on 04/02/2005 4:39:20 AM PST by Pharmboy ("Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God")
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To: Pharmboy

Pull her feeding tube!


44 posted on 04/02/2005 4:39:32 AM PST by Realist
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To: ken5050
Does this winchbag not understand that she is supposed to help interpret the US Constitution, not foreign law?
45 posted on 04/02/2005 4:42:06 AM PST by MissEdie
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To: Pharmboy

I think the thing that roils me the most here is that I remember arguing with "conservatives" who were all hell bent on voting for Perot.

They're response to what happens "when" Klinton gets elected always was: "Well, How Much Damage Can He Really Do?"

Ginsberg, the Klinton gift that keeps on giving.

Now you chowder heads who voted for Perot and Klinton know.


46 posted on 04/02/2005 4:43:08 AM PST by Al Gator (Remember to pillage BEFORE you burn!)
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To: Pharmboy

The GOP doesn't have the balls to initiate imepeachment proceedings against a facist like Ginsberg. Too bad. Maybe someday, after the illegals overrun the Southwest and reclaim it for Mexico will they wake up.


47 posted on 04/02/2005 4:46:35 AM PST by Pittsburg Phil
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To: Congressman Billybob

Bump.


48 posted on 04/02/2005 4:46:57 AM PST by First_Salute (May God save our democratic-republican government, from a government by judiciary.)
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To: Pharmboy
Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg of the Supreme Court embraced the practice of consulting foreign legal decisions on Friday, rejecting the argument from conservatives that United States law should not take international thinking into account.

F**king traitor.

49 posted on 04/02/2005 4:47:41 AM PST by Lazamataz (Cleverly Arranging 1's And 0's Since 11110111011...)
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To: Pharmboy
Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg of the Supreme Court embraced the practice of consulting foreign legal decisions on Friday, rejecting the argument from conservatives that United States law should not take international thinking into account.

F**king traitor.

50 posted on 04/02/2005 4:47:42 AM PST by Lazamataz (Cleverly Arranging 1's And 0's Since 11110111011...)
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