CBA to Examine Jon R. Thogmartin, M.D. Medical Examiner for Pinellas and Pasco Counties,

Clearwater Bar Association ^ | July 26 2001 | CBA Mark S. Hamilton

[BellStar]

Scheduled speaker for the July 26 membership luncheon at the Harborview Center is Jon R. Thogmartin, M.D., District Medical Examiner for District 6, Pinellas and Pasco Counties, since December 2000. Dr. Thogmartin was born in Wellington, Texas, and received his doctorate in medicine in 1990 from University of Texas Health Science Center at San Antonio, and his bachelor of science in biology from Southern Methodist University in Dallas in 1986, magna cum laude.

Dr. Thogmartin was Associate Medical Examiner in Broward County and Dade County before becoming District 15 Medical Examiner in Palm Beach County in April 1999, a position he left in November 1999 to accept the position in Pinellas and Pasco. Licensed in both Florida and Texas, Mr. Thogmartin is also certified in Anatomic, Clinical and Forensic Pathology by the American Board of Pathology.

Jon Thogmartin has been honored by the Alpha Omega Alpha Medical Honor Society (1989), Phi Beta Kappa (1986), and Robert Stewart Hyer Society (1985). He also received the Silver Medal of Valor from the Metro-Dade Police Department in November 1996. Jon Thogmartin has been accepted as an expert in the field of Forensic Pathology in U.S. Federal Court and in the Circuit Courts of Dade, Broward, Palm Beach County and the State of Michigan. His major fields of interest are wound ballistics, firearms, infant deaths, child abuse, asphyxia, and forensic toxicology.

Thogmartin has also done his share of teaching. In Texas, beginning in 1984, he was a teaching assistant at Southern Methodist in the Department of Chemistry, and at the University of Health Science Center at San Antonio in the Departments of Cellular and Structural Biology and Pathology. More recently, in Miami, at the Dade County Medical Examiner Office and IACP Seminar, he taught a course on Strangulation and Other Compressions.

Jon Thogmartin has been published in the Journal of Forensic Science, American Journal for Medical Pathology, and Journal of Pediatrics, in addition to the Palm Beach Post and Medical Examiner Annual Report.

Please welcome Jon Thogmartin at our luncheon on July 26th! His presentation can't help but be fascinating! Reservations are required, and the luncheon is free to CBA members. Judges, law office staff and guests pay $15. Call CBA to reserve at 727-461-4869.

[BellStar]

Lawyer friendly since 2001.

[Diogenesis]

BREAKING: Factoid of the hour - Jon R. Thogmartin, M.D taught a course on "Strangulation and Other Compressions"

Jon R. Thogmartin, M.D. District Chief Medical Examiner, Pinellas County, FL

* According to the Medical Examiner’s Office, “The mission of the Medical Examiner’s
office is to fulfill the needs outlined in F.S. 406, to be of service to families of the deceased,
and local government agencies. In short, our mission is to determine the cause
and manner of death under certain circumstances.
This mission requires the utmost objectivity irrespective of personal beliefs or emotional attachment to the circumstances of any particular case.”
* Started the job in 2000.
* “His major fields of interest are wound ballistics, firearms, infant deaths,
child abuse, asphyxia, and forensic toxicology. ”

* “Thogmartin has also done his share of teaching. In Texas, beginning in 1984,
he was a teaching assistant at Southern Methodist in the Department of Chemistry,
and at the University of Health Science Center at San Antonio in the Departments of
Cellular and Structural Biology and Pathology. More recently, in Miami, at the
Dade County Medical Examiner Office and IACP Seminar,
he taught a course on Strangulation and Other Compressions.

Support Staff:
Noel Palma, M.D., Deputy Chief Medical Examiner
Susan Ignacio, M.D., Associate Medical Examiner
Chris Wilson, M.D., Associate Medical Examiner
Daniel Schultz, M.D., Associate Medical Examiner
William A. Pellan, Director of Investigations
Reta Newman, M.A., Director of PCFL

[bluebeak]

The autopsy done already?! They don't want to find squat (including the coward governor). It's a quick hand washing.!

[Diogenesis]

Pinellas County Medical Examiner:
"Wow!!! This was so easy and quick. I kept Dr. Cyril H. Wecht away from the post
and simply used Terri's official Pinellas County Autopsy report
which Judge Greer gave me last week.
Let me assure you that Judge Greer's report
which was written BEFORE he began shredding the records
says absolutely positively nothing about abuse.
Everything was normal. AOK. Honest."

[mewzilla]

A Jon R. Thogmartin is mentioned on this PDF link. If it is the same guy, was/is he moonlighting? If so, is that allowed? And if it is the same guy, what's the deal with the PA/MD company? The Schiavos hail from PA, don't they?

FWIW.

[MizSterious]

Once MS agreed to have the autopsy done, I figured the ME was in his pocket. It appears I wasn't wrong.

[Eccl 10:2]

"A Jon R. Thogmartin is mentioned on this PDF link. If it is the same guy, was/is he moonlighting? If so, is that allowed? And if it is the same guy, what's the deal with the PA/MD company? The Schiavos hail from PA, don't they?"

Wow! Follow the money, baby, follow the money.

The conflicts of interest in this sad episode are piling up and, IMHO, making a pretty big stink.

This could fit in with who sat on the board of that hospice (Felos, the sherriff Rice, other players).

Keep digging, baby. This thing's gonna blow open, big time.

[Maria S]

"Once MS agreed to have the autopsy done, I figured the ME was in his pocket. It appears I wasn't wrong."

MS had no choice in the autopsy; it's the law in Florida if a body is to be cremated. Felos just used the "Michael agreed to..." spin to make his client seem less evil. OTOH...the ME probably IS in the pockets of MS and Felos.

[YOUGOTIT]

Looks as though it was a conspiracy all along.

[Orlando]

This case needs to be investigated by the FBI & U.S.Atty General long ago. Get this out of Pinellas County. Jeb Bush why do you let this happen ?

[Diogenesis]

2005 - FBI finally looks and finds explosives in Nichol's house

2030 - FBI gives up on Whitey Bulger [murderer working in Boston and other states for the FBI, found leaving dead bodies everywhere]

3050 - FBI admits "Judge" Greer was not a judge and murdered Terri Shindler Shiavo. Millions of complaints and half a ton of evidence finally found behind a water-cooler.

[Ticonderoga34]

This case needs to be investigated by the FBI & U.S.Atty General long ago. Get this out of Pinellas County. Jeb Bush why do you let this happen ?

Hasn't Tom Delay said that there will be a congressional investigation? If so, we should try to use public opinion to make sure that investigation takes place.

I'm not ready to let this issue go, there's just too many unanswered questions.

[BellStar]

"taught a course on Strangulation and Other Compressions."

[Shisan]

OK friends, did I miss the point? Why are we jumping on Thogmartin even before the report is out? He seems to have excellent creds for a Forensic Pathologist.
And also, what do y'all expect from an autopsy report? This isn't Star Trek.

[BellStar]

I am not "taught a course on Strangulation and Other Compressions" gave me a lot of hope.

[BellStar]

Good Texas Conection.

[BellStar]

Good Texas Conection.

[cyn]

I agree.

This isn't CSI, either. It will take time, even though the autopsy itself is done. To which I say, take as much time as you all need there to do a good thorough job.

If michael was SO desirous of proving that Terri was PVS, why wasn't a PET scan done, at least?

lol, I heard Dr. Baden say "It will be interesting now to know if she was PVS..." Yeah, like that helps her now that she's irrevocably, irretrievably, most sincerely dead.

[Graymatter]

What I expect from this autopsy report is that it will indicate the pathologist did not even look for evidence of strangulation.

[bluebeak]

Terri Schiavo dies ... and Jeb Bush hides

... this autopsy is a quick hand washing for all parties involve (they don't want to find squat).

[Orlando]

The American people will support Tom Delay. The courts denied the Schindlers a hearing, and there love was murdered in front of the entire world. Let the Schinlders have there hearing and let the world know the truth not the lies of the ABC,NBC,CBS,AP,etc...79% of the American were against this horrorable act(recent polls). We demand a full investigations and hearings on Cspan TV & Radio...
Many people don't know the REAL TRUTH YET, and it's up to congress/white house to regain control, and protect the weak,sick,poor, and disabled people. We can't let them be murdered-off like this, because it's pure EVIL and it's a attack on GOD.

http://www.senate.gov

[cyn]

http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/johansen200503160848.asp

Terri’s [PVS] diagnosis was arrived at without the benefit of testing that most neurologists would consider standard for diagnosing PVS. One such test is MRI (Magnetic Resonance Imaging). MRI is widely used today, even for ailments as simple as knee injuries — but Terri has never had one. Michael has repeatedly refused to consent to one. The neurologists I have spoken to have reacted with shock upon learning this fact. One such neurologist is Dr. Peter Morin. He is a researcher specializing in degenerative brain diseases, and has both an M.D. and a Ph.D. in biochemistry from Boston University.

In the course of my conversation with Dr. Morin, he made reference to the standard use of MRI and PET (Positron Emission Tomography) scans to diagnose the extent of brain injuries. He seemed to assume that these had been done for Terri. I stopped him and told him that these tests have never been done for her; that Michael had refused them.

There was a moment of dead silence.

“That’s criminal,” he said, and then asked, in a tone of utter incredulity: “How can he continue as guardian? People are deliberating over this woman’s life and death and there’s been no MRI or PET?” He drew a reasonable conclusion: “These people [Michael Schiavo, George Felos, and Judge Greer] don’t want the information.” Dr. Morin explained that he would feel obligated to obtain the information in these tests before making a diagnosis with life and death consequences. . . .

. . .Other neurologists have concurred with Dr. Morin’s opinion. Dr. Thomas Zabiega, who trained at the University of Chicago, said, “Any neurologist who is objective would say ‘Yes’” to the question, “Should Terri be given an MRI?”

[jackbill]

MS had no choice in the autopsy; it's the law in Florida if a body is to be cremated.

Can you cite the law? When I looked the other day I found a reference that said that in the case of a cremation, the ME must do an investigation of the circumstances but was not required to do an autopsy. The ME could, on his own, do one or the family could ask for one.

I'm not in Florida so I don't know if I was looking at the most recent law. See, for instance:

http://www.co.collier.fl.us/naplesme/faqs.htm

[harpo11]

I wonder if Terri's autopsy report will end up the same as Vince Foster's and Ron Brown's?

Lost, destroyed and/or manipulated?

Gosh, I hope that the Medical Examiner, Thogmartin is a man of integrity and character. It would be good to see at least one Pinellas County player in this hidious tragedy who isn't corrupt.

[thoughtomator]

I remember looking it up recently... there is a current Flordia law that requires an autopsy in the case of cremation (and other cases). Google it and you should find it in reasonably short order.

[cyn]

Hi, Orlando -- it turns out when the poll questions are more accurately, carefully worded, more people get it:

Zogby Poll: Americans Not in Favor of Starving Terri Schiavo

That headline gives me the creeps . . . as if now people are saying "Oh, if only I'd known . . . NO, she shouldn't have died!" -- is it too much to hope that the apathy and studied nonchalance are over?

Not that we need polls on FR to determine what is right and what is wrong, or that something screwy was going on.

[cookcounty]

" The Schiavos hail from PA, don't they?"

Probably a red herring I'm bringing up, but Michael and Jodi sold their commercial insurance company to a Philadelphia company, a company that among other things, provides insurance to boards of directors. I wonder if Michael is getting s"special help" from someone "back home."

[cookcounty]

" The Schiavos hail from PA, don't they?"

Probably a red herring I'm bringing up, but Michael and Jodi sold their commercial insurance company to a Philadelphia company, a company that among other things, provides insurance to boards of directors. I wonder if Michael is getting s"special help" from someone "back home."

[Orlando]

St.Theresa is a MARTYR, and it's up to us all now to tell the entire world the truth, and shine the light and do battle with those that murdered her, and nation....

It is my mission now.....I am sorry, that I didn't do more to protect her, and save her and I ask God for forgiveness and mercy, but now.....We Fight Back the darkness of deceptions and lies.....It's our duty to GOD and NATION !!

We must protect the WEAK,POOR,SICK, and DISABLED People, so-be-it, and so-help-me GOD !!! I know Terri is gone, but remember this , she lives with GOD and is in our heart and we won't forget her----Never!

The Saints are on the March now.....

[exDemMom]

Part of the autopsy was to do a full panel of radiographs on the body. These should confirm the results of the bone scan. Furthermore, the autopsy was to include toxicology testing. I think, also, weights of various organs are measured, although in Terri's case, having been through the horrible ordeal she had to suffer, the organs are all likely to be underweight.

The findings of this autopsy will depend a lot on Dr. Thogmartin's honesty. I hope that he is honest and considers his professional integrity very important.

[sinkspur]

Why are we jumping on Thogmartin even before the report is out?

Paranoid conspiracies engulf everything in their wake.

I hear that the guy who delivered milk to the Woodland Hospice might have voted for Judge Greer, so he's under suspicion for murder now too.

[concerned about politics]

OK friends, did I miss the point? Why are we jumping on Thogmartin even before the report is out? He seems to have excellent creds for a Forensic Pathologist.

The commission that accepted him for the job is the same commission Greer used to be on before he became a judge. That's scary.
I hope he's an honest, through guy. Being part of the Florida web can cause one concern.

[queenkathy]

Too bad this poll came out too late to influence our wonderful leaders...They were all poll driven. I applaud those who stood up for live. We need to find out who they were and really support there efforts.

[queenkathy]

It would have been better if, under the circumstances, he would have allowed another Dr. there during the autopsy. Dr. Baden for one. ANd the ones OJ had for another.

[noah]

On the medical channel they show actual operations etc. Why can't we have THIS autopsy filmed in its entirty and played on the Medical Channel?

[Shisan]

It was mentioned on Rush's show that an MRI was not possible since she had metal in her head from a previous procedure. Just to let you know.

[jackbill]

You look it up. The link that I provided in #23 is an official ME site in Collier County, FL. Why would they have outdated info on their web site?

[Shisan]

A "commission" accepted him? My guess is that in a busy forensics office it was just his turn in the rotation or else they all flipped a coin and he lost.
What is the name of this commission?

[thoughtomator]

Governments aren't exactly the most efficient maintainers of up-to-date information.

Over two years since the INS was abolished, its successor bureaus (ICE/CIS) still use INS-labeled forms and letterhead.

[cyn]

Hi, Shisan -- I know that, and the article I excerpted mentions it later. that's why the PET. However, that metal implant from her CA surgery was to have been removed -- michael was supposed to have followed up at the U of FL, but never did. That's a part of the falling out w/the Schindlers.

[Maria S]

I could have also told you what website originally furnished the following info, but you'd probably question that too. If you need further assistance finding something, please let me know. If you'll scroll down to the bottom of this list, find 12.c, you'll hopefully find what you're asking about.


http://www.flsenate.gov/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=Ch0406/ch0406.htm


406.11 Examinations, investigations, and autopsies.--

(1) In any of the following circumstances involving the death of a human being, the medical examiner of the district in which the death occurred or the body was found shall determine the cause of death and shall, for that purpose, make or have performed such examinations, investigations, and autopsies as he or she shall deem necessary or as shall be requested by the state attorney:

(a) When any person dies in the state:

1. Of criminal violence.

2. By accident.

3. By suicide.

4. Suddenly, when in apparent good health.

5. Unattended by a practicing physician or other recognized practitioner.

6. In any prison or penal institution.

7. In police custody.

8. In any suspicious or unusual circumstance.

9. By criminal abortion.

10. By poison.

11. By disease constituting a threat to public health.

12. By disease, injury, or toxic agent resulting from employment.

(b) When a dead body is brought into the state without proper medical certification.

(c) When a body is to be cremated, dissected, or buried at sea.

[Shisan]

OK thanks.
As for the PET, I didn't think it could be used as a guide for cognition. I've only heard of it being used to locate metabolically hyperactive areas such as are seen with cancer and infection.
Don't get me wrong. What was done to Terri is a sign of great moral failing in our society and an indication of our slide downhill. Her life should have been valued regardless of the result of any x-ray however.

[jackbill]

If you are trying to maintain that 406.11 "requires" an autopsy in the case of a person to be cremated, I suggest that you read it again, specifically:

shall, for that purpose, make or have performed such examinations, investigations, and autopsies as he or she shall deem necessary or as shall be requested by the state attorney: