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CA: Moves abound to change environmental law to build more housing (CEQA)
Bakersfield Californian ^ | 4/3/05 | Jim Wasserman - AP

Posted on 04/03/2005 3:38:22 PM PDT by NormsRevenge

SACRAMENTO (AP) - California's housing shortage, which has pushed median home prices above $470,000, is spurring a variety of moves to change the state's 35-year-old environmental protection law, long considered the nation's toughest.

Attempts by the state's home building industry to change the 1970 law, signed by former Gov. Ronald Reagan, are nothing new, but this year Republican Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger and a growing list of Democrats are joining in. Key lawmakers are pushing bills to make it easier for developers to maneuver around the law, especially to build housing in downtowns and older urban neighborhoods.

The growing momentum to change the California Environmental Quality Act sets up a clash between business and environmental interests in a state with some of the nation's highest priced homes and lowest rates of homeownership. A majority of Californians can no longer afford to buy homes, prompting some lawmakers to lament their generation may be the state's first unable to provide a better life for its children.

Although environmental groups have given Schwarzenegger's early moves high marks, the governor is expected to unveil proposals to ease current CEQA rules and make it harder to use the law to stop residential construction projects. A draft version of the bill would limit the ability of opponents to file some lawsuits and would streamline the regulatory process for developers in areas already planned and zoned for housing.

Earlier this year Schwarzenegger called home ownership "part of the American Dream" and promised to eliminate "regulatory and legal hurdles that delay construction and increase the costs."

His proposal also expands on recommendations made by the California Performance Review study Schwarzenegger started last year. The review's report said CEQA creates "too many opportunities for blocking projects for non-environmental considerations" and that neighborhood opposition groups especially use it to block multifamily apartment projects.

Builders and their allies provided key input to the CPR panel and also to a 41-member Resources Agency advisory group regarding the draft legislation.

Although many of the proposals are aimed at limiting the sprawl of housing to empty farmland, environmental groups fear the proposals will change the law so much that it will actually foster more sprawl instead of more housing in urban areas. On the defensive, they're highlighting the act's success stories and preparing for battle in the Legislature.

"If builders get their way, ordinary Californians are going to be sitting in traffic even longer and living further out and having fewer options," said Karen Douglas, attorney for the Planning and Conservation League, a lobbying coalition of environmental groups. Because the law requires detailed studies of a development's potential effects on its surroundings, it "has made the state better."

Developer groups don't argue the law's benefits. Instead, they say it's been twisted by NIMBY - "not in my back yard" - groups to shrink development proposals by forcing extra environmental studies. Such delays - a new environmental impact report can cost up to $200,000 and take 18 months - sometimes make developers just walk away.

A handful of law firms have used it to stall many of the 40 Wal-Mart Supercenters planned in California. Developers building housing subdivisions on empty land also find themselves wrangling with lawsuits alleging insufficient environmental studies.

Some of the tactics led Oakland Mayor Jerry Brown, a Democrat who was staunch defender of the law when he was governor of California from 1975 to 1983, to push for a new law to restrict opponents' ability to use it to block downtown Oakland housing projects.

The problem isn't the law but those who abuse it, said Tim Coyle, the top lobbyist for the California Building Industry Association.

Coyle said legislators, many of them former city council members, complain to him that the law "keeps getting in the way of urban revitalization projects and neighborhood restoration projects."

Last year, California developers built 211,000 new homes and apartments, and expect to reach a similar target this year. But that's still 80,000 short of demand for a two-year span, they say. As prices of existing homes reached a median price last month of $471,620 - where half cost more and half cost less - fewer than one in four households could afford one, reports the California Association of Realtors.

"We're killing the most fundamental goal or objective of every middle-class Californian - owning a home," said Senate President Pro Tem Don Perata, D-Oakland.

Perata wants more central city and downtown housing projects declared off limits to CEQA challenges and has introduced a bill greatly expanding the acreage and number of homes that qualify. The bill is part of a package of anti-sprawl legislation that Perata said will be a top Senate priority this year.

Other lawmakers have followed suit. Bills awaiting their first hearings would allow builders to use "short form" environmental reports in areas already planned and zoned for homes, make those who file CEQA lawsuits disclose their backers and their economic or other interest in the project.

Another would exempt some downtown residential projects from traffic impact studies.

"There are plenty of situations, in Sacramento and elsewhere in the state, where smart growth, infill housing developments, which are designed to give people an option to live close to work and where they shop, are faced with significant traffic mitigation requirements," said its author, Assemblyman Dave Jones, D-Sacramento.

In Sacramento, opponents recently used the act to delay a 119-apartment project just blocks from a downtown light rail line and within walking distance of thousands of jobs.

Despite some of the complaints, the law's defenders said its benefits are too great to ignore.

It's not perfect, because any law that opens the way for lawsuit can be abused, said Sean Hecht, executive director of the Environmental Law Center at the University of California at Los Angeles School of Law.

"The fact that some people might frivolously file employment discrimination lawsuits when there's been no discrimination doesn't mean we throw out employment law. I see CEQA the same," he said. "Like any good law, it's done some really important things for our state."

---

Read the bills, SB948, SB832, SB785, SB427, AB648 and AB1387 at http://www.legislature.ca.gov

Planning and Conservation League: http://www.pcl.org

California Building Industry Association: http://cbia.org


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Extended News; Government; Politics/Elections; US: California; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: abound; build; california; ceqa; ceqacalifornia; change; environment; environmental; housing; law; moves; propertyrights; realestate
Proposals to change the California Environmental Quality Act

The Associated Press

http://www.bakersfield.com/state_wire/story/5410059p-5420864c.html

Proposals to spur more housing by changing the 1970-era California Environmental Quality Act

--- - AB648, By Assemblyman Dave Jones, D-Sacramento: Makes cities considering development projects subject to CEQA analysis identify the eventual owner or user of the project.

- AB1387, by Assemblyman Dave Jones, D-Sacramento: Allows housing projects proposed in downtown or central city neighborhoods to be approved without analyzing traffic impacts if they comply with traffic and transportation policies in the city's zoning and growth plans.

- SB427, by Sen. Dennis Hollingsworth, R-La Mesa: Exempts new freeway overpasses, on ramps and off ramps proposed on existing Caltrans property from undergoing an environmental analysis.

- SB785, by Sen. Tom McClintock, R-Northridge: Requires groups that use the environmental quality act to sue development projects to list all people, associations, partnerships or corporations involved and their financial interest in the controversy or other interest that could be affected by the outcome.

- SB832, by Sen. Don Perata, D-Oakland: Greatly expands areas of central city development exempt from CEQA requirements. Would include projects under 10 acres with fewer than 300 homes in cities with more than 200,000 residents.

- SB948, by Sen. Kevin Murray, D-Culver City: Allows home builders to prepare a short-form environmental impact report rather than expensive full-blown report for residential projects inside cities or unincorporated areas already planned and zoned for houses. Cites the state's housing shortage and need to remove regulatory barriers.

- Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger: Working on draft legislation that says developers who build homes on land already planned and zoned for housing - and analyzed earlier for environmental effects - would not have to do more analyses for impacts. It would also limit lawsuits to whether the project is consistent with growth plans

---

Supporters of the environmental act point to numerous "success stories:"

- In 2002, the Antioch City Council shelved a 2,700-acre residential-commercial project near Antioch when the environmental impact report showed it would add 14,000 more car trips to Highway 4.

- In 2003, Hercules developers planning a 123-home project on an old industrial site agreed to more extensive soil sampling tests after newly required environmental studies raised concerns about toxic soils.

- In 2003, Lockheed Martin dropped plans for 18,000 homes and two golf courses in Riverside County's Portrero Valley after a Sierra Club lawsuit proved its environmental impact report inadequate. The land eventually became part of the San Jacinto Wildlife Area.

- In 2003, Dow Chemical agreed to 30 measures to reduce emissions from a proposed pesticide manufacturing plant in Pittsburg, and agreed to donate $1 million for environmental projects after a lawsuit challenged the city's approval of the plant without environmental studies.

- In 1996, the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Los Angeles abandoned plans to tear down St. Vibiana's Cathedral after courts forced further environmental studies. The archdiocese eventually sold the property to a developer who began a seismic retrofit of the building.

---

Critics of how the environmental act is used cite examples of abuse:

- In 2003, an environmental lawsuit seeking new traffic impact and air quality studies blocked construction for several months on a 119-unit residential building near a light rail station in downtown Sacramento and within walking distance of thousands of jobs.

- In 2004, environmental lawsuits halted construction on a Bakersfield Wal-Mart Supercenter and blocked the start of construction on a second Supercenter. Developer attorneys, who allege that competitors and labor unions are behind the lawsuits, say delays could range from two to four years.

- In 1994, an environmental lawsuit caused a 1 1/2-year delay for a 40-apartment, low-income housing project approved by the city of West Hollywood for people with AIDS.

- In 1992, an environmental lawsuit produced a 2 1/2-year delay for a low-income housing project in Fairfax.

- In 2000, an environmental lawsuit added six years to the time line to build a 566-lot, equestrian-themed subdivision in rural El Dorado County.

---

Sources: California Building Industry Association; attorneys for Castle and Cooke, Inc.; Planning and Conservation League; California League of Conservation Voters.

1 posted on 04/03/2005 3:38:22 PM PDT by NormsRevenge
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To: NormsRevenge

They'd better change the environmental restrictions and delays on power plants while they're at it. The last thing they need is more houses and less power.


2 posted on 04/03/2005 3:41:24 PM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: farmfriend; SierraWasp; Carry_Okie; calcowgirl

fyi


3 posted on 04/03/2005 3:41:29 PM PDT by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi ...... The War on Terrorism is the ultimate 'faith-based' initiative.)
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To: NormsRevenge

"The growing momentum to change the California Environmental Quality Act sets up a clash between business and environmental interests in a state with some of the nation's highest priced homes and lowest rates of homeownership.....


Say, what about the people whose houses are increasing in value by 20% every year? I would say they have a horse in this race, although not a very attractive one.


4 posted on 04/03/2005 3:42:23 PM PDT by proxy_user
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To: NormsRevenge

Reforming the law is against my financial interest. Reform it anyway.


5 posted on 04/03/2005 3:47:52 PM PDT by Torie
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To: NormsRevenge
The whole point of the California coastal environmental code is to keep housing densities low enough that the prices are sky high. This serves to keep the number of people at the beach consistent with the available parking.

In short, the whole point is to make life more convenient for the rich.

6 posted on 04/03/2005 3:51:01 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: NormsRevenge
I have really enjoyed watching the value of my Orange County home rise, but there is no way that my kids could afford to raise my grandkids in this kind of neighborhood. Young couples can't afford $625,000.00 for a home, and that is what mine just appraised for.

I have always found it amusing that the people who sue to keep others from building homes already own their own homes. It is rather self serving to keep the available number of homes small. That causes the value of the existing homes to rise dramatically, and makes their own homes worth more.

7 posted on 04/03/2005 3:52:26 PM PDT by passionfruit
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To: passionfruit
Here's a sign that your housing has priced itself right out of the market ~ IKEA has more than one store within an hour's driving distance.

What it means is you will be able to afford some furniture while you pay $3,000 a month for your mortgage.

Orange county California is such a place! (ROTFLMAO - We only have one IKEA and it's 15 minutes away ~ my house has tripled in price in 4 years).

8 posted on 04/03/2005 4:11:57 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: NormsRevenge
Ronald Reagan signed the toughest environmental act in the nation ? How can that be ? Wasn't he a big defense, big business, pro-life, didn't care about nothing else kinda of guy ? <-sarcasm off>
9 posted on 04/03/2005 4:13:11 PM PDT by stylin19a (Always remember - don't ever forget - "2 wrongs don't make a right, but....3 lefts make a right.")
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To: NormsRevenge

They need to pass some new law to increase the amount of daylight while not letting it get too hot, and rain only in the early morning and not at all on
Saturday.


10 posted on 04/03/2005 4:16:01 PM PDT by RightWhale (50 trillion sovereign cells working together in relative harmony)
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To: NormsRevenge
Rule of Thumb:
If the "Environmentalists" are for it, oppose it.
If the "Environmentalsts" are against it, support it.
Never give money (or anything else) to an "Environmentalist Charity".

11 posted on 04/03/2005 4:29:39 PM PDT by Savage Beast (There is nothing liberal about the Left!)
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To: passionfruit
You can pass your home onto them. Many parents now pass on the property to their heirs. Its kind of a modern version of the medieval entailment doctrine. With homes as expensive as they are, its the only way to ensure your child has a place to live.

(Denny Crane: "Sometimes you can only look for answers from God and failing that... and Fox News".)
12 posted on 04/03/2005 4:48:05 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: NormsRevenge

Just east of San Diego, there is open land up the wazoooo. But .. there also happens to be a teeny-tiny butterfly who lives there.

Guess who gets the property ..?? It's not the humans.

My suggestion was - since we have a world renowed ZOO - why not prepare a habitat for the butterfly there and allow a lot more people to see them - leaving the land for PEOPLE.


13 posted on 04/03/2005 4:51:44 PM PDT by CyberAnt (President Bush: "America is the greatest nation on the face of the earth")
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To: NormsRevenge

What I always find extremely amusing is that the same far-left nuts who try to halt every building project for the sake of "the environment" also complain that the lack of "affordable housing" hurts the poor that they care so much about. Instead of admitting that there is a problem, they blame some big business conspiracy and try to mandate construction of affordable homes. The simple principle of supply and demand is out of their intellectual grasp. I know, I'm related to leftist nuts.

OTOH, I sold my house in California not so long ago. I'm not complaining. :)


14 posted on 04/03/2005 7:23:18 PM PDT by exDemMom (Death is beautiful, to those who hate their own lives.)
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To: NormsRevenge

We talkin growth here? Or are we talkin old growth??


15 posted on 04/03/2005 9:41:59 PM PDT by SierraWasp (GovernMental EnvironMental Parasitic Pissants perpetually tormenting American's Progress!!!)
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To: NormsRevenge; abbi_normal_2; Ace2U; adam_az; Alamo-Girl; Alas; alfons; alphadog; AMDG&BVMH; amom; ..
Rights, farms, environment ping.
Let me know if you wish to be added or removed from this list.
I don't get offended if you want to be removed.
16 posted on 04/03/2005 10:48:18 PM PDT by farmfriend ( Why oh why didn't I take the blue pill?!?)
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To: NormsRevenge; calcowgirl
Attempts by the state's home building industry to change the 1970 law, signed by former Gov. Ronald Reagan, are nothing new, but this year Republican Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger and a growing list of Democrats are joining in. Key lawmakers are pushing bills to make it easier for developers to maneuver around the law, especially to build housing in downtowns and older urban neighborhoods.

Arnold knows on which side his Broad is buttered.

17 posted on 04/03/2005 10:52:42 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (There are people in power who are truly evil.)
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To: SierraWasp
We talkin growth here? Or are we talkin old growth??

Infill. It's Sustainable Development.

18 posted on 04/03/2005 10:53:47 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (There are people in power who are truly evil.)
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To: Torie
My inlaws just sold the house in Sonoma County they bought in the 70's for just under 100K for damn near $400K. They bought a place up near Tahoe for around 250K. Not in Tahoe mind you, but about 2 hours away.

Neither place was larger than 2000 sqaure feet.

My house an hour west of Chicago is about 1700 sf, and just appraised at 170K.

There's something wrong with this picture...

L

19 posted on 04/03/2005 10:59:16 PM PDT by Lurker (Remember the Beirut Bombing; 243 dead Marines. The House of Assad and Hezbollah did it..)
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To: Carry_Okie

http://governing.com/articles/6billion.htm 

Sugar Daddy Government
A new generation of billionaires is remaking American cities. The cities are better off; the democratic process sometimes suffers.
From Governing’s June 2004 issue
By JOHN BUNTIN

(snip)

BROAD AGENDA

Other cities exhibit similar ambivalence toward their current billionaire benefactors. Los Angeles is feeling it about Eli Broad, the city’s second-richest man, who led the homebuilders Kauffman and Broad (now KB Homes) and the annuity giant [AIG] Sun America. Broad, 71, is a native New Yorker, the son of staunchly Democratic lower-middle-class parents who, in his words, “was raised on this rhetoric of the poor workers and the big bad bosses.”

While Broad made much of his fortune building suburban tract houses, he has also made a major effort to strengthen central Los Angeles, arguing that “no city in world history has been great without a center.” In the late ’70s, he took the lead in creating the Los Angeles Museum of Contemporary Art. More recently, he stepped in to rescue the faltering downtown Disney Concert Hall project, and adjudicated a longstanding dispute between the city and Los Angeles County over development plans for Grand Avenue, a downtown boulevard that Broad is determined to transform into Los Angeles’ Champs-Elysees.

Meanwhile, Broad has used his money to alter the course of city electoral politics. Two years ago, when communities in the San Fernando Valley considered seceding from Los Angeles, he attempted to reconcile the warring camps. When that effort failed, he contributed handsomely to a successful media campaign aimed at defeating the secession movement in a referendum.

At the same time, he has emerged as an often-controversial power behind the scenes in the city’s school policy decisions. In 1999, Broad helped engineer a takeover of the L.A. school board. Along with Mayor Richard Riordan, he created a new school pressure group, the Coalition for Kids, and contributed more than $200,000 to its slate of candidates. The Coalition’s slate swept into office, defeating three incumbents. Two years later, Broad and Riordan pressured one board member to scale down a teacher salary increase, and then, when she refused, contributed to a candidate who ousted her in the next election. Broad is said to have dangled $10 million before the president of Occidental College in an unsuccessful effort to persuade him to run against another school board member.

All this involvement in local politics has generated a backlash, notwithstanding the general good feeling about Broad’s charitable efforts. Broad has become a target for criticism not only from teachers’ unions but also from the Los Angeles Times, which has published accusations that Broad profited from school board construction decisions and improperly lobbied the school board to build yet another Broad project: a fancy new arts high school downtown.


20 posted on 04/04/2005 1:44:58 AM PDT by calcowgirl
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To: Carry_Okie; SierraWasp; NormsRevenge
There seem to be two sets of standards here. Compare and Contrast: What Eli wants for you:
smc.edu

Eli Broad: "Now, Los Angeles will have at its center a grand boulevard and urban park, providing millions of people each year the opportunity to walk, shop and play while enjoying downtown at its best."

LA Business Journal

Eli Broad
Born: New York, 1933
Position: Chairman, AIG Retirement Services

Quote: "In general, I never understood how this region could not have a vital center or downtown like other metro areas did. I believe we have to have far more people living in the center of the city. People are going to find they want to live there because there will be things to do."

calfutures.org

. . . SunAmerica Inc. Chairman Eli Broad, stressed that a push for efficient land use, with higher housing density and mixed urban zoning, requires focused, but still absent, public policy.

What Eli wants for himself:
California Coastal Commission November 1999 Agenda

c. Application No. 4-99-185 (Broad, Malibu) Application of Eli Broad, Trustee of the Broad Revocable Trust, to demolish two single-family homes, construct 4,690 sq. ft. single-family home, attached garage, detached 510 sq. ft. garage with upstairs 440 sq. ft. guesthouse, & new septic system, offer to dedicate lateral public access easement over southern beachfront part of site and construct 6-ft-wide public sidewalk, at 21958 and 21962 Pacific Coast Highway, Malibu, Los Angeles County. (SMH-V) [APPROVED WITH CONDITIONS]


21 posted on 04/04/2005 1:57:32 AM PDT by calcowgirl
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To: farmfriend

BTT!!!!!


22 posted on 04/04/2005 2:59:50 AM PDT by E.G.C.
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To: calcowgirl
It's The Squeeze.

On the demand side, needlessly draconian environmental regulations are being enforced on low-to-middle income communities in the County hinter-land, forcing those residents back into the city. The Agenda 21 system thus Balkanizes the County into zones of rural rich and poor.

The method can make new rural-suburban lots available for redevelopment using environmental laws in much the same manner as applied to owners of target tracts of acreage properties. As you recall, Measure J had other effects besides chewing up the forest in big chunks. Prior to the election, the people who held small suburban lots in small rural towns owned something that could support a residential structure, worth about the same as any other small urban lot. After the passage of Measure J, a once buildable 3/4-acre lot in town worth $50,000 (in current dollars), a fell to about one-fifth its prior value. Their land was “worth-less.”

We’ll call this one, “The Squeeze”:

  1. Rezone suburban lots with urban potential to a larger minimum size.
  2. The owners of “worth-less” lots get to hold the bag and pay the taxes.
  3. The County recognizes the “urban sprawl” and circumscribes the area by zoning “greenbelts.”
  4. Prices of residential housing rise due to a lack of available acreage.
  5. The big landowners wait for the market to develop and buy the “worth-less” lots for the less that they are “worth.”
  6. The County recognizes the “housing shortage” and rezones the minimums for “in-fill.”
  7. The property, now worth a lot, gets developed, and the County rakes in additional taxes.

    Now that those “worth-less” lots are worth lots, why didn’t the bag-holders keep them?

  8. To produce new lots, use environmental and zoning laws to require modifications to building codes that the current class of owners cannot afford. To take the dirt, condemn the property. Sell it to whom?

    One has to wonder if there were politicians out there, clever enough to realize that they could serve the developers, the anti-development activists, and the environmentalists, all in one policy swoop. It all seemed so plausible, repetitive, and ubiquitous.

    Snip

    Are politicians and planning bureaucrats really smart enough to set up a system like this, or was this just a misattribution of random events and human nature suffering from the creative scrutiny of some paranoid author? Every lawyer and planner interviewed during the research for this book who was asked that question, stated flatly that the politicians aren’t that smart and are ideologically opposed to such things. The subject of one interview how-ever, was (unknown to me at the time) one of the very people who had made oodles of money in the land conversion business. His comment was that there are people who are that smart, and that certain authors should be “careful.”

    The purpose of this book is not to bust people but to point out the systemic flaws that develop when government does not respect private property rights as unalienable. That flaw is the lack of civic discipline that “limited govern-ment” under the Constitution was intended to provide; i.e., the power to feed one's urges with other people's money. It is the power to take control of property without compensation. It is the essence of democratic government.

Agenda21 (Sustainable Development, Smart Growth, whatever) is nothing more than a playbook for the rich and powerful to stay that way enslaving everybody else via the unconstitutional regulatory powers inherent to socialism. As you know well ccg, both political parties are playing the game.
23 posted on 04/04/2005 6:25:01 AM PDT by Carry_Okie (There are people in power who are truly evil.)
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To: Carry_Okie

>>As you know well ccg, both political parties are playing the game.


Yep--just follow the money. It's not too hard to see.


24 posted on 04/04/2005 3:34:16 PM PDT by calcowgirl
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To: Carry_Okie; farmfriend; calcowgirl; NormsRevenge; Amerigomag; Grampa Dave; Dog Gone; ElkGroveDan; ..
"Infill. It's Sustainable Development."

Yes, of course... God forbid that anyone should be allowed to venture forth from the puss of crime ridden sespools we call CA cities and flee unto the mountains of the Sierra-Nevada CONcravency to both own and CONTROL a small parcel of land with which to raise their offspring in the image of God and in favor with God and man!!!

It's NOT "Sustainable Development," it's suffocatable development outside the rotten city limits they're after!!!

Once again... Rural cleansing!!! But it's easy to see how easy it is for them to fool people... Look at all the FReepers that exhibit complete resignation to this Faciastic/Socialistic scheme!!! It's just breathtaking!!!

25 posted on 04/04/2005 7:04:39 PM PDT by SierraWasp (GovernMental EnvironMental Parasitic Pissants perpetually tormenting American's Progress!!!)
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To: Carry_Okie; SierraWasp; tubebender; Ernest_at_the_Beach; NormsRevenge
"Are politicians and planning bureaucrats really smart enough to set up a system like this, or was this just a misattribution of random events and human nature suffering from the creative scrutiny of some paranoid author? Every lawyer and planner interviewed during the research for this book who was asked that question, stated flatly that the politicians aren’t that smart and are ideologically opposed to such things. The subject of one interview how-ever, was (unknown to me at the time) one of the very people who had made oodles of money in the land conversion business. His comment was that there are people who are that smart, and that certain authors should be “careful.” "

That response is why I cringe when those on our side label the masterminds behind the dark side as dumb. They are that smart and as dangerous as you were warned.

26 posted on 04/05/2005 7:37:17 AM PDT by Grampa Dave (The MSM has been a WMD, Weapon of Mass Disinformation for the Rats for at least 4 decades.)
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To: Grampa Dave
I often despair of teaching conservative "leaders" how it really works. They think they know what's going on, but don't have a clue.
27 posted on 04/05/2005 8:26:54 AM PDT by Carry_Okie (The environment is too complex and too important to be managed by central planning.)
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To: Grampa Dave; Carry_Okie
"I cringe when those on our side label the masterminds behind the dark side as dumb."

How absolutely right you are, oh Great Grampa!!!

28 posted on 04/05/2005 8:29:39 AM PDT by SierraWasp (The "Heritage Oaks" in the Sierra-Nevada Conservancy are full of parasitic GovernMental mistletoe!!!)
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To: Carry_Okie

Most Americans, conservative or moderate have zero clues to what is going on, why and very important-who is funding the action.


29 posted on 04/05/2005 8:47:28 AM PDT by Grampa Dave (The MSM has been a WMD, Weapon of Mass Disinformation for the Rats for at least 4 decades.)
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To: muawiyah
< sarcasm >
California - Members Only allowed ! A decent place to live is "For Executives Only !" or for the "Elite". Coming soon to your state. Currently being done in Colorado, Montana. Oregon and Washington right now.

< /sarcasm>
30 posted on 04/05/2005 9:29:38 AM PDT by CORedneck
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To: Grampa Dave
That response is why I cringe when those on our side label the masterminds behind the dark side as dumb

In posession of what can only be called an evil genius, the dark side has patiently set up the demise of a constitutional republic, without firing a weapon.
31 posted on 04/05/2005 9:47:32 AM PDT by hedgetrimmer
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To: hedgetrimmer

"In possession of what can only be called an evil genius, the dark side has patiently set up the demise of a constitutional republic, without firing a weapon."

The Eugenics/Euthanasia is good for Americans has been pushed by the limo drive elite of the dark side for about 7 decades. George $oro$ has invested over $45 million to make Americans place Eugenics/Euthanasia as another core building block like abortion for the dark side.


32 posted on 04/05/2005 10:00:46 AM PDT by Grampa Dave (The MSM has been a WMD, Weapon of Mass Disinformation for the Rats for at least 4 decades.)
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To: passionfruit
I am not able to afford a home in the California communities that I would want to live in; my family has left the state and I have no property to inherit...and yet I am very opposed to legislation that would supposedly make it easier to build "much needed" homes in our state. The truth is that ANY individual who prioritizes home ownership CAN purchase a home. Compromises may be necessary regarding location / size / budgeting other purchases etc. But more development is not the answer to improving quality of life. Personally, I would like to see more of these lucky individuals who find themselves in possession of $600,000 properties to include small affordable rentals on their properties. I live in a very affordable cottage on such a property and am very happy as a renting Californian. It allows me to invest my income in other ways without the long-term responsibilities of being anchored to a specific location. Owning a home goes hand in hand with other commitments like raising a family and contributing to the community you live in. Simply making thousands of cookie-cutter houses/condos/units affordable is not going to nourish communities in the way that is needed to truly create "The American Dream". Many, maybe most, Californians who are experiencing housing crises could be better helped by rental reform than by building development.
33 posted on 04/14/2005 4:19:07 PM PDT by cali (california real estate)
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To: CyberAnt

what planet are you from?...there are a lot of nice places to live besides the land just east of san diego.


34 posted on 04/14/2005 4:29:57 PM PDT by cali (a butterfly flaps its wings)
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To: exDemMom

affordable housing does not require a condo developers free-for-all. affordable housing involves rental reform, community activism, and other political actions that do not impede the work of environmentalists.


35 posted on 04/14/2005 4:36:43 PM PDT by cali (a butterfly flaps its wings)
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To: cali

You know .. you people immediately expose who you are when you start your conversations by insulting people.

I've lived in San Diego for over 20 years. I've seen housing and rental rates go through the roof - because several building projects have been squashed by environmental groups who won't allow certain sections of "scrub brush" land to be reconstituted so humans can live there. The housing projects bring in trees and plants and encourage new businesses to expand.

This area has grown larger the last few years because of the increase in military activity. We need those lands in order to have cheaper housing. So .. while the environmental people are whining continually about gas emissions - they force people to live farther away from their jobs - causing them to travel more .. somehow that logic escapes me.


36 posted on 04/14/2005 6:11:10 PM PDT by CyberAnt (President Bush: "America is the greatest nation on the face of the earth")
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To: cali

You signed up today. Hit and run poster?

I could refute your post with logic, but it's not worth it if you're only a hit and run.


37 posted on 04/14/2005 6:16:38 PM PDT by exDemMom (Now that I've finally accepted that I'm living a bad hair life, I'm more at peace with the world.)
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To: exDemMom

i am awaiting the logical response.


38 posted on 04/19/2005 12:59:31 PM PDT by cali (a butterfly flaps its wings)
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To: cali

The short answer is that it is a supply and demand problem. Housing is a commodity like any other, and no amount of trying to mandate "affordable housing" or whatever is going to solve the root problem. Rent reform (you did not define any details or give an insight into how it would work) can't help if there aren't enough housing units to begin with.

In Davis, there was a no growth policy. At the same time, the number of enrollments at the university was growing. Apartment vacancy was at less than 1%, and rents were skyrocketing. Homeowners in Davis started building additions to their homes, so they were living on properties with no yards and all house, so that they could rent to students. The Davis city council (the great thinkers that they are < /src >) did not like that, so decided to legislate against it. I'm not sure if rent control was considered, but would it have helped get students into apartments (which were nonexistant)? What finally happened (after a few years of no vacancies) is that the Davis city council allowed a few more apartment buildings to be constructed, the vacancy rate went from less than 1% to over 5 or 10%, and apartment building owners started offering incentives to move into their buildings. Alleviating the housing shortage was the only workable solution.

It is common leftist belief that a supply problem can be fixed by legislation rather than by fixing the actual supply problem. If legislation could fix shortages, the USSR would have been the land of milk and honey.


39 posted on 04/23/2005 10:30:16 AM PDT by exDemMom (Now that I've finally accepted that I'm living a bad hair life, I'm more at peace with the world.)
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To: passionfruit

"Young couples can't afford $625,000.00 for a home, and that is what mine just appraised for."

Enjoy it while you can. The eventual rise in interest rates will likely bring about a much overdue correction in housing prices.


40 posted on 04/23/2005 11:07:16 AM PDT by Amish with an attitude (An armed society is a polite society)
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