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Schiavo neurologist views Alzheimer patients as physician-assisted "suicides"
CFP ^ | April 4, 2005 | Judi McLeod

Posted on 04/04/2005 6:33:25 AM PDT by MikeEdwards

Years before he categorized Terri Schindler Schiavo in the persistent vegetative state, which led to her death by dehydration, neurologist Dr. Ronald Cranford was building the case for removing feeding tubes from society’s vulnerable.

"…The United States has thousands or tens of thousands of patients in vegetative states; nobody knows for sure exactly how many," Cranford wrote in a 1997 Minneapolis Star Tribune opinion piece titled: When a feeding tube borders on the barbaric. (WorldNetDaily. Com, March 23, 2005). "But before long, this country will have several million patients with Alzheimer’s dementia. The challenges and costs of maintaining vegetative state patients will pale in comparison to the problems presented by Alzheimer’s disease.

"The answer, he suggested, was physician-assisted suicide."

Cranford blames the medical profession for society’s rush toward physician-assisted suicide…"our archaic responses to pain and suffering; our failure to accept death as a reality and an inevitable outcome of life; our inability to be realistic and humane in treating irreversibly ill people. All of this has shaken the public’s confidence in the medical profession."

Could it be no-food-no-water, white-coated doctors, propelled by right-to-die activism, that is shaking the public’s confidence in today’s medical profession?

Alleged to have participated in states like California without courtesy of a legal license, Cranfeld openly applauds European values that embrace euthanasia. Countries like Belgium, where experts believe that 10 percent of all deaths now result from euthanasia or by drugs administered by doctors to hasten death. . . . .


TOPICS: Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: alzheimer; assisted; euthanasia; killtheinconvenient; physician; schiavo; suicide; terri; terrischiavo

1 posted on 04/04/2005 6:33:26 AM PDT by MikeEdwards
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To: MikeEdwards

Sure would solve the rising costs of health care and Social Security.



/s


2 posted on 04/04/2005 6:35:40 AM PDT by mtbopfuyn (Legality does not dictate morality... Lavin)
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To: mtbopfuyn
Liberals would love it. More money for their friends.

(Denny Crane: "Sometimes you can only look for answers from God and failing that... and Fox News".)
3 posted on 04/04/2005 6:36:33 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: mtbopfuyn

Yes, that is what is will come down to. The extreme cost of taking care of such patients will make this whole debate academic.


4 posted on 04/04/2005 6:38:44 AM PDT by A Ruckus of Dogs
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To: MikeEdwards

Geez...I've been reporting on this on FR for a week now...think the MSM will pick up on it? NOT.


5 posted on 04/04/2005 6:41:06 AM PDT by ravingnutter
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To: MikeEdwards
Auto Ignore: A total lack of interest in this subject on my behalf has triggered Auto Ignore. Attempts to drag me into a discussion on this subject are futile. Do not ping me concerning this thread!
6 posted on 04/04/2005 6:41:34 AM PDT by Conspiracy Guy (Tag line repossessed)
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To: MikeEdwards
Gee I wonder how Mikie Schiavo found this guy and hired him to be one of his expert witnesses on Terri's prognosis? One report has said this was the doctor who actually disconnected her feeding tube - anyone confirm this?

I believe Dr Cranford was also the expert witness who persuaded Judge Greer that feeding Terri or letting her have liquid orally would be "artificial" because she wasn't voluntarily lifting the spoon or cup or ice chips to her own dying lips......pretty disingenuous, eh?
7 posted on 04/04/2005 6:42:05 AM PDT by silverleaf (Fasten your seat belts- it's going to be a BUMPY ride.)
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To: A Ruckus of Dogs

Add the fact that many people nowadays are totally unprepared to face the diminishing capabilities of the elderly or their ultimate deaths and you have a serious problem with the popularization of euthanasia.


8 posted on 04/04/2005 6:43:38 AM PDT by claudiustg (Go Sharon! Go Bush!)
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To: Conspiracy Guy
Glad to see you've pulled your plug. One less useless poster consuming bandwidth that real FReepers can use.
9 posted on 04/04/2005 8:21:10 AM PDT by TigersEye (You say Barabbas I say Jesus, let's call the whole thing off. (too late now))
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To: TigersEye

Haven't pulled the plug. I just got tired of watching people beat the crap out of each other over this. The case is tragic no matter which side you're on. I was on the side of life but both sides of this have gotten too inflamed. Take your comment to me. You don't know me but you jumped right in and insulted me. Hope you're proud.


10 posted on 04/04/2005 8:36:08 AM PDT by Conspiracy Guy (Tag line repossessed)
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To: Conspiracy Guy

I'm not interested in your opinion, that's all.


11 posted on 04/04/2005 9:19:33 AM PDT by TigersEye
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To: TigersEye

Coming from you, that is a compliment. Go kick your dog. You are dismissed.


12 posted on 04/04/2005 9:28:36 AM PDT by Conspiracy Guy (Tag line repossessed)
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To: Conspiracy Guy
Coming from someone who dismissed everyone with his initial post your opinion means nothing. Your suggestions mean nothing. Apparently your commitment to refuse to be drug into this subject means nothing. Your tube is pulled.
13 posted on 04/04/2005 9:41:07 AM PDT by TigersEye (Are your parents Pro-Choice? I guess you got lucky! ... Is your spouse?)
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To: MikeEdwards

It's just a darn shame that his parents didn't practice abortion. Amen.


14 posted on 04/04/2005 9:45:49 AM PDT by gakrak ("A wise man's heart is his right hand, But a fool's heart is at his left" Eccl 10:2)
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To: TigersEye
You ignored the Auto Ignore so in order not to be rude I replied. I should have ignored you since you seem to be a set on being the reason I post auto ignore. I will amend my ways and ignore you forth going. Your tube is still connected but to the wrong place.
15 posted on 04/04/2005 9:46:04 AM PDT by Conspiracy Guy (Tag line repossessed)
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To: MikeEdwards
Could it be no-food-no-water, white-coated doctors, propelled by right-to-die activism, that is shaking the public’s confidence in today’s medical profession?

Doctors are as vulnerable to the siren song of the culture of death as judges, lawyers, or anyone, perhaps more so. Once they get a taste for killing, any consideration of ethics, the Hippocratic Oath, and the like, goes out the window, drowned by the bloodlust. It bears remembering that Kevorkian, Mengele, the infamous "Dr. Brandt" of The Fuhrer Order, and all the rest, were at one time doctors before they became killers.

16 posted on 04/04/2005 9:54:15 AM PDT by chimera
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To: Conspiracy Guy
Your post has been automatically ignored.
This post is not meant to indicate my opinion one way or the other. It should not be construed as a sign that I considered your post or that this is a reply to your post. This post should not be considered to be evidence that I am participating in this thread or in a conversation with you.
It is just an automatic post with no meaning or relevance to anything whatsoever.

17 posted on 04/04/2005 10:04:03 AM PDT by TigersEye (This is an automatic non-post post.)
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To: MikeEdwards
Anyone see a contradiction here?

Cranford believes that PVS or Alzheimer patients have no constitutional rights.

Cranford testified that Terri was PVS for Michael, who said he was protecting Terri's constitutional right to refuse treatment and her constitutional right to privacy.

18 posted on 04/04/2005 1:39:46 PM PDT by syriacus (Weird George Felos repeatedly flicked his tongue out his gaping mouth when lying to the press 3/31)
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To: syriacus

A brand new category of human beings that are no longer "persons."

Who's next?


19 posted on 04/04/2005 1:41:27 PM PDT by hocndoc (Choice is the # 1 killer in the US)
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To: MikeEdwards

Ah, another pig squeals its way into the limelight.


20 posted on 04/04/2005 1:44:00 PM PDT by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: Conspiracy Guy

LOL I always cracks me up when people take the time to click on the post and enter a comment that basically says, "Not interested." If you aren't interested, why waste the time to do that in the first place?


21 posted on 04/04/2005 1:45:24 PM PDT by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: MikeEdwards
"The answer, he suggested, was physician-assisted suicide."

Jeez. But put panties on the heads of terrorist and all Hell breaks loose.

22 posted on 04/04/2005 1:46:00 PM PDT by AppyPappy (If You're Not A Part Of The Solution, There's Good Money To Be Made In Prolonging The Problem.)
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To: hocndoc
A brand new category of human beings that are no longer "persons." Who's next?

Good question.

23 posted on 04/04/2005 1:51:48 PM PDT by syriacus (Weird George Felos repeatedly flicked his tongue out his gaping mouth when lying to the press 3/31)
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To: MEGoody

It is a contrarian tact. I use it sometimes to lighten things up. Some understand that other's want to fight. The Schiavo case is far from over and much will be learned. But every thread doesn't have to be about Terri. I was on the Official Friday Silliness thread the other day and someone brought the case over there.

Hope I didn't offend you with the Auto Ignore.


24 posted on 04/04/2005 1:52:46 PM PDT by Conspiracy Guy (Tag line repossessed)
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To: AppyPappy
My mother-in-law lives with us now. She has dementia caused by stroke (not Alzheimers). She can't ever tell you what happened 5 minutes ago. Was married 41 years to her departed husband and has no recollection of it. Does not know that my wife is her daughter, or what her name is. She's happy (content). Well fed... relatively healthy for a 74 year old. But she can't find her bedroom. And then once she finds it, she can't find the bathroom that is in it. Can't buckel a seatbelt. Can't dress herself without help to tell her which is a shirt and which are pants.

I mean... it is really really sad. A lifetime of taking pictures means absolutely nothing to her. And when we watched Finding Nemo... it took her an hour to figure out that it was a cartoon.... and not a real talking fish.

She stays during the day at an assisted living center and we pick her up in the evenings. When she has to go there fulltime someday, we've already signed the do-not-ressussiate papers. We can talk about the value of life and all that.... but I think that for those of us that are christians, we have to know when to let go and let them be with God. Where it's FAR FAR better anyway.

25 posted on 04/04/2005 1:53:36 PM PDT by kjam22 (What you win them by, is what you win them to)
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To: MikeEdwards

Alzheimer’s is a disease that one gets by no fault of his own. If we are going to save money lets cut off funds to people who get Ill of their own doing such as Aids and smoking. Medical cost were not a proplem in this country until there was Aids.


26 posted on 04/04/2005 1:56:48 PM PDT by Ibredd
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To: Ibredd
Medical cost were not a proplem in this country until there was Aids.

That's a pretty silly statement.

27 posted on 04/04/2005 2:00:57 PM PDT by kjam22 (What you win them by, is what you win them to)
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To: kjam22

Aids showed up in or about 85 I am sure there is a graff out there showing Medical costs for the last 50 years.


28 posted on 04/04/2005 2:04:45 PM PDT by Ibredd
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To: Ibredd

I just think in light of malpractice suits, new drugs, new treatments, longer lifespans, better care, more longterm care, more elderly, aids, alzheimers, inflation... and everything else that effects medical costs... well to blame it all on aids is pretty silly. Keep in mind, I don't have aids, and I dont' know anybody that does... so it's not big issue for me. I just think your statement was pretty silly thinking.


29 posted on 04/04/2005 2:09:17 PM PDT by kjam22 (What you win them by, is what you win them to)
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To: kjam22

Agreed. Lawyers and juries put it where it is.


30 posted on 04/04/2005 2:10:36 PM PDT by Conspiracy Guy (Tag line repossessed)
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To: Conspiracy Guy

In case you hadn't noticed, every thread isn't about Terri.

Be happy.


31 posted on 04/04/2005 2:12:43 PM PDT by k2blader (If suicide is immoral, then helping it happen, regardless of motivation, is also immoral.)
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To: kjam22

Just the costs of the rubber gloves every fireman every doctor and or nurse has to put on before they can even touch someone sence aids could pay off the national debt


32 posted on 04/04/2005 2:12:49 PM PDT by Ibredd
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To: Ibredd
Just the costs of the rubber gloves every fireman every doctor and or nurse has to put on before they can even touch someone sence aids could pay off the national debt

LOL

33 posted on 04/04/2005 2:14:14 PM PDT by kjam22 (What you win them by, is what you win them to)
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To: MikeEdwards

Dr. Cranford was Nancy Cruzan's dr. also and talked her parents into taking away her feeding tube and it took her 12 days to die. The father, Mr. Cruzan committed SUICIDE the day beofre Terri Schiavo died!!! He must have felt so damn guilty.


34 posted on 04/04/2005 2:14:19 PM PDT by Ann Archy (Abortion: The Human Sacrifice to the god of Convenience.)
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To: k2blader

I am happy.


35 posted on 04/04/2005 2:15:26 PM PDT by Conspiracy Guy (Tag line repossessed)
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To: silverleaf

Mike Schiavo used Dr. Cranford because of what I just posted about Nancy Cruzan and her starving to death.....and her father committing suicide.


36 posted on 04/04/2005 2:16:06 PM PDT by Ann Archy (Abortion: The Human Sacrifice to the god of Convenience.)
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To: kjam22

much less the prescription that was 25.00 in 85 is now some 500.00 so we can have R&D funds to cure Aids.


37 posted on 04/04/2005 2:19:15 PM PDT by Ibredd
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To: Ibredd
"Medical cost were not a proplem in this country until there was Aids".

Medical costs in this country weren't a problem before socialism took hold.

38 posted on 04/04/2005 2:26:27 PM PDT by monkeywrench
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To: Conspiracy Guy
"It is a contrarian tact. I use it sometimes to lighten things up."

Well, it worked. It made me laugh.

39 posted on 04/04/2005 2:51:08 PM PDT by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: MEGoody

I'm glad. It has been so tense lately.


40 posted on 04/04/2005 2:53:58 PM PDT by Conspiracy Guy (Tag line repossessed)
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To: Ann Archy
The father, Mr. Cruzan committed SUICIDE the day beofre Terri Schiavo died!!! He must have felt so damn guilty.

Huh? People had written about Mr. Cruzan's suicide for a lot more than a week.

41 posted on 04/04/2005 6:26:07 PM PDT by supercat ("Though her life has been sold for corrupt men's gold, she refuses to give up the ghost.")
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To: MikeEdwards
Hey....I'm all for offing Granny if it means a bigger piece of the pie for me. /sarc.
42 posted on 04/04/2005 7:14:32 PM PDT by Earthdweller (US descendant of French Protestants ....Terri Schiavo, "Where there's life, there's hope.")
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To: supercat

Do you have a link to the story about Mr. Cruzan's suicide? I can't find it ANYWHERE!! Thanks.


43 posted on 04/04/2005 8:32:07 PM PDT by Ann Archy (Abortion: The Human Sacrifice to the god of Convenience.)
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To: Ann Archy
Do you have a link to the story about Mr. Cruzan's suicide? I can't find it ANYWHERE!! Thanks.

Did you try FR search?

Emotions still linger from Nancy Cruzan’s right-to-die case

Nancy's father, Joe, committed suicide in 1996, after being exhausted by the emotions of the legal fight and beaten down by the subsequent criticism that his family endured.

44 posted on 04/04/2005 8:37:09 PM PDT by supercat ("Though her life has been sold for corrupt men's gold, she refuses to give up the ghost.")
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To: supercat

THANS!! From the story posted last week, I thoght the dad committed suicide that day. Thanks again.


45 posted on 04/04/2005 8:46:16 PM PDT by Ann Archy (Abortion: The Human Sacrifice to the god of Convenience.)
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To: supercat

hmmm...do you think Michael will commit suicide too?


46 posted on 04/04/2005 8:51:26 PM PDT by ladyjane
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To: claudiustg
what scares me is the all or nothing attitude....

we go from supporting life no matter what to the extreme....ending life no matter what...

believe me, I run into both camps....

some families that want absolutely everything done to their elderly parent to those that can't wait to get the death certificate signed and wondered just how long this death thingy is going to take.....

47 posted on 04/04/2005 8:54:58 PM PDT by cherry (I)
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To: ladyjane
hmmm...do you think Michael will commit suicide too?

I don't know, and I don't know whether any 'suicide' by Michael is would be more likely voluntary or involuntary. Remember that Michael probably knows about a lot of behind-the-scenes actors who want to remain unknown.

48 posted on 04/04/2005 9:13:59 PM PDT by supercat ("Though her life has been sold for corrupt men's gold, she refuses to give up the ghost.")
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To: MikeEdwards

vast-death-wing-conspiracy alert.


49 posted on 04/04/2005 9:14:50 PM PDT by the invisib1e hand (In Honor of Terri Schiavo. http://209.245.58.70/frosty65/ Let it load and have the sound on.)
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To: cherry

---what scares me is the all or nothing attitude....

we go from supporting life no matter what to the extreme....ending life no matter what...---

I think it's a sign of modern immaturity in dealing with death. For many people death is an abstract and frightening concept.


50 posted on 04/04/2005 9:51:31 PM PDT by claudiustg (Go Sharon! Go Bush!)
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