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Border security now -- not mańana
PittsburghLive.com ^ | April 10, 2005 | Dimitri Vassilaros

Posted on 04/10/2005 7:42:09 AM PDT by Marine Inspector

Since the federal government proposes phasing in its new passport policy by 2008 -- and since it is designed to further secure our borders after 9/11 -- why wasn't it proposed on 9/12? Or in 1999?

(Excerpt) Read more at pittsburghlive.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Government; Mexico; News/Current Events; US: Arizona; US: California; US: New Mexico; US: Texas; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: alien; aliens; borderpatrol; cbp; customs; illegal; legal; turass
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1 posted on 04/10/2005 7:42:09 AM PDT by Marine Inspector
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Comment #2 Removed by Moderator

To: HiJinx

Ping.


3 posted on 04/10/2005 7:42:36 AM PDT by Marine Inspector (Customs & Border Protection Officer)
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To: Marine Inspector

I am confused. I never knew I didn’t have to have a passport to get into the States…Probably so, but there is no way that I know of I can leave Panama without showing a passport. That is to say, I still have to have a passport to leave Panama anyway.


4 posted on 04/10/2005 7:53:05 AM PDT by Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)
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To: Marine Inspector

Why do we need Americans to possess passports to travel? Is it because our ID is not citizen specific? At nearly 100 dollars a copy for the passport, this is just a way for the govt to make money IMO, and pretend that they are protecting our security of course.


5 posted on 04/10/2005 7:55:40 AM PDT by jeremiah (The ACLU and lawyers in general, are responsible for 90% of all problems nationwide)
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To: Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)

Current law states that US citizens are not required to have a passport to return from Canada, Mexico and a few of the close by islands.


6 posted on 04/10/2005 7:58:35 AM PDT by Marine Inspector (Customs & Border Protection Officer)
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To: Marine Inspector

Too busy giving us the anal probe with the USA PATRIOT Act to deal with a niggling detail like keeping undesirables out.

Why secure the borders when failing to do so provides the perfect excuse to implement a surveillance state?


7 posted on 04/10/2005 7:59:00 AM PDT by eno_ (Freedom Lite - it's almost worth defending.)
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To: jeremiah
At nearly 100 dollars a copy for the passport, this is just a way for the govt to make money IMO, and pretend that they are protecting our security of course.

I disagree. Security is the overall concern, but as always, the Government goes about it wrong.

One of two things will happen. Either this whole thing will get nixed before 2008 or the Feds will drop the price of passports

8 posted on 04/10/2005 8:00:41 AM PDT by Marine Inspector (Customs & Border Protection Officer)
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To: Marine Inspector

SEE!!!! The government is actually finally doing something about the illegal immigration problem! After years of study they have finally agreed on a solution.

Yeah right. I am tired of bureaucrats patting themselves on the back every time they actually act like they have a new solution to an old problem and are ready to act.
Too little........ way too late.


9 posted on 04/10/2005 8:01:00 AM PDT by o_zarkman44
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To: Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)

This law may be an artifact of the former canal zone and the movement of people from here to there, including military dependents and PCC dependents...didn't passenger flights arrive at albrook at some point in the distant past?

it may also be that people leaving from Howard on Space-A or chartered flights to charleston didn't have to have anything but a birth certificate and dependent ID, i don't know.

""Probably so, but there is no way that I know of I can leave Panama without showing a passport.""


10 posted on 04/10/2005 8:11:46 AM PDT by WoofDog123
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To: jeremiah
Why do we need Americans to possess passports to travel? Is it because our ID is not citizen specific?

When one is traveling, a passport is for one's own protection. It is an international identification. Passports are similar around the world and are recognized immediately. This wouldn't be so with a State's driver’s license or whatever other ID one chooses to use. Also, passports do cost initially because they aren't cheap to print and deliver, but they are good for 10 years. If one can’t afford the cost, one can’t afford to travel.

11 posted on 04/10/2005 8:12:27 AM PDT by Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)
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To: Marine Inspector

12 posted on 04/10/2005 8:25:08 AM PDT by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: Marine Inspector
Current law states that US citizens are not required to have a passport to return from Canada, Mexico and a few of the close by islands.

Yes, this is why I'm surprised Panama is also mentioned. I think the person who wrote the article is misinformed...Or maybe I am. All I can state for sure is that I always have to have a passport to leave Panama. I suppose if I had a State's driver’s license, which I don't have, I could have entered the States with that license and kept my passport in my bag. At least, that's how I think I understand it. Strange.

13 posted on 04/10/2005 8:25:37 AM PDT by Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)
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To: Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)

Here's an example:

I had a brother in law who was working as a doctor for the Saudis. Every 6 months he was required to leave the country. He couldn't come home without losing his tax exemtion which required being out of the country 18 months.

He flew to Mexico, walked across the border using his California drivers license, took a cab to Brown Field and I flew him home.

He returned by the same route 2 weeks later.


14 posted on 04/10/2005 8:36:36 AM PDT by dalereed
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To: Marine Inspector
The Minuteman Project is more than an entry for the biggest month-long neighborhood block watch for the Guinness Book of World Records. It is a rapid-response project of Americans who are helping the Border Patrol spot illegals. The Minuteman Project did not take a decade to implement. These patriotic volunteers are putting their government to shame.

God bless the Minute Men and Minute Women!

15 posted on 04/10/2005 8:45:32 AM PDT by afnamvet (31st Fighter Wing Tuy Hoa AB RVN 68-69 "Return With Honor")
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To: WoofDog123
This law may be an artifact of the former canal zone and the movement of people from here to there, including military dependents and PCC dependents...didn't passenger flights arrive at albrook at some point in the distant past?

it may also be that people leaving from Howard on Space-A or chartered flights to charleston didn't have to have anything but a birth certificate and dependent ID, i don't know.

I was thinking the same thing. But all that stopped at the end or 1999. When it was the Canal Zone, one would get official travel documents for leaving and entering Panama (Tocumen Airport), but I think, one still had to have a Passport anyway…I think…I have always had a passport so my mind is fuzzy on this one. If one left out of Howard, one didn’t need a passport, only, as you stated, a birth certificate and/or dependent ID. I never traveled on the “Freedom Bird” because of the uncertainty of leaving and returning on a particular date. Also, one had to go all the way to Charleston, NC.

As far as Albrook was concerned, yes, it was the only international airport for both the Canal Zone and the Republic of Panama. It ceased being a commercial airport, as you pointed out, many, many years ago when Panama built it’s own international airport which was jungle and wilderness at the time.

But definitely, today, one has to have a passport to leave Tocumen Airport. Embassy folks have their own official passports. I don’t know about the U.S. Embassy Marines and their needs.

16 posted on 04/10/2005 8:47:05 AM PDT by Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)
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To: Marine Inspector

How is security the overall concern when requiring American Citizens to have proper documentation to return to America, while the 'rights' of illegal aliens are cited as reasons the 'Minuteman Project' needs to be watched? Guess we as Americans need to ask Vincenti what the easiest and quickest path from Naco to Tucson is.......


17 posted on 04/10/2005 8:50:37 AM PDT by Plain Old American (Remember who said what; Remind those who don't Remember; Vote and take a friend to the polls)
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To: dalereed
He flew to Mexico, walked across the border using his California drivers license, took a cab to Brown Field and I flew him home.

Hey, that sounds good to me.

18 posted on 04/10/2005 8:51:28 AM PDT by Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)
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Comment #19 Removed by Moderator

To: Marine Inspector

With the exception of a handfull of people on this forum, most probably agree we need to solve our border issues. There are some pretty good and some pretty whacky ideas expressed on how to do this. But I'd like to point out that even if we could wave the magic wand and solve the illegal entrant issues, we still have the post 9-11 security issues to deal with.

If we had a mechanism that allowed workers to cross freely and legally, we'd still have thousands of miles of border that could be used by terrorists and other undesirables. Knock on wood that we've not had another major terror event, but I still say we can't let our guard down. The price is just too high.


20 posted on 04/10/2005 9:02:23 AM PDT by umgud
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To: Marine Inspector

Excerpt-only rules apply downthread as well.


21 posted on 04/10/2005 9:04:18 AM PDT by Lead Moderator
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Comment #22 Removed by Moderator

To: All

There is one part I have never understood. When I reach customs in the U.S, I am asked how long (dates) will I be staying (in my own country) and the address where I will be staying.


23 posted on 04/10/2005 9:21:19 AM PDT by Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)
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To: sonali

Well said both times, sonali.


24 posted on 04/10/2005 9:26:18 AM PDT by Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)
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To: Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)

Until the new passport regs go in, fly into TJ and either have someone pick you up at the TJ airport and drive across the border and you will only be asked where you were born and not ask for ID and what you bought in Mexico or walk across the border like any other tourist and they might ask you for a DL, especially if you are white.

I would suggest the Otay Mesa border crossing since the line of cars is usually a lot shorter, it's closer to the TJ airport anyway.


25 posted on 04/10/2005 9:40:59 AM PDT by dalereed
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To: eno_
The Minutemen are showing us not only how to seal our borders and protect our national security, they are demonstrating how we, the people, can take back our country from the political establishment.

Some questions and ideas for you to think about.
What do you think would happen if a popular football or other sports star was to start off the project by donating 5 or 25 million dollars to build fences on private property that adjoins the border?

Then a few more sport stars each throw in a couple of million of their own money while asking all "True Americans" to send just one hours wages to the FENCE FUND?

Do you think that the politicians would be able to stop this from growing out of control and the voters demanding that the Feds "fence our land"?

Do you think the politicians would listen or ignore a million calls a day to their offices?

Never underestimate what the American people can do when they decide they want to do it.

While I'm at it, we could start a "Name and Shame List" of companies that hire illegals. Name the banks that loan money to a tax number when the illegal doesn't have a phony Social Security number. Name the mortgage companies that favor home loans to illegals, using our money for their downpayment.

If you have ideas or questions, throw them in the pot here. I'm sure there's FReeper who can answer most of the questions or critique your ideas.

Do you have any ideas on how to get this started?

We need to keep the fire burning while the media is watching and reporting.

26 posted on 04/10/2005 9:41:16 AM PDT by B4Ranch ("Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to report every illegal alien that you meet.")
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To: sonali

Bttt! Good comments.


27 posted on 04/10/2005 9:41:51 AM PDT by monkeywrench
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To: Marine Inspector
or the Feds will drop the price of passports

Not likely. It's much more likely that the price will go up to help pay for passports for poor people who can't afford to pay for their own.

This would make the border problem easier to identify. If you're within 100 miles of the border and you don't have a passport or other proof of US citizenship, you get detained.

28 posted on 04/10/2005 9:45:43 AM PDT by Bernard (Memory is the second thing to go. I forget what goes first.)
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To: afnamvet
God bless the Minute Men and Minute Women!

Agreed.

29 posted on 04/10/2005 9:50:20 AM PDT by Marine Inspector (Customs & Border Protection Officer)
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To: Plain Old American
The passport issue has nothing to do with the Minutemen or illegal aliens crossing between the legal entry points.

The passport issue has to do with fraud and impostors; both of which will be reduced by requiring passports. Is it a fix all, no and it's not designed to be one.
30 posted on 04/10/2005 9:54:04 AM PDT by Marine Inspector (Customs & Border Protection Officer)
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To: umgud

Agreed.


31 posted on 04/10/2005 9:54:47 AM PDT by Marine Inspector (Customs & Border Protection Officer)
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To: Bernard

"If you're within 100 miles of the border and you don't have a passport or other proof of US citizenship, you get detained."

No way!

I live within 100 miles of the border and that would mean I would have to carry a passport anytime I left the house!


32 posted on 04/10/2005 9:57:52 AM PDT by dalereed
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To: Marine Inspector

BUMP THAT


33 posted on 04/10/2005 9:59:04 AM PDT by moehoward
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To: dalereed

Let me finish the thought, "A valid driver's license would be other proof of citizenship." Of course, that would require that we don't hand out licenses to anybody that just walks in to the DMV.


34 posted on 04/10/2005 9:59:25 AM PDT by Bernard (Memory is the second thing to go. I forget what goes first.)
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To: Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)

True, but up here in Alaska all citizens, including children, will be required to have a passport simply to drive from Alaska to Idaho. I don't know how flying from here to Seattle would be affected.
Government always claims that it acts for our protection, but the results are for us usually inconvenient, annoying, insulting, and ineffectual.


35 posted on 04/10/2005 10:00:27 AM PDT by ArmyTeach (Pray daily for our troops.)
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To: Bernard

That puts us back to the current condition that is Calif.

You can count on lefty arnie to sign a DL for illegals bill before the year is out.


36 posted on 04/10/2005 10:02:51 AM PDT by dalereed
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To: sonali

Welcome to the United States. We are honored to have you as one of us.


37 posted on 04/10/2005 10:04:06 AM PDT by ArmyTeach (Pray daily for our troops.)
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To: sonali

Welcome to the United States. We are honored to have you as one of us.


38 posted on 04/10/2005 10:04:16 AM PDT by ArmyTeach (Pray daily for our troops.)
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To: ArmyTeach

"I don't know how flying from here to Seattle would be affected."

You only have to show your DL to get on the airplane, you don't even go through customs.


39 posted on 04/10/2005 10:04:36 AM PDT by dalereed
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To: ArmyTeach

You would not be affected if you fly from Alaska to Idaho. It would not even affect you if the aircraft stopped in Canada as long as you remain on the plane or put into a holding area where you would wait to take off again.


40 posted on 04/10/2005 10:08:34 AM PDT by Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)
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To: dalereed

True, but will that continue to be the case if and when passports and implemented? I could be flying to Mexicon on Alaska Air.


41 posted on 04/10/2005 10:10:05 AM PDT by ArmyTeach (Pray daily for our troops.)
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To: Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)

" I don’t know about the U.S. Embassy Marines and their needs."

I think AD and personnel overseas all have to have passports.


42 posted on 04/10/2005 10:15:29 AM PDT by WoofDog123
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To: WoofDog123

"I think AD and personnel overseas all have to have passports."

should read

I think AD personnel overseas all have to have passports. (*omit 'and')


43 posted on 04/10/2005 10:19:31 AM PDT by WoofDog123
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To: ArmyTeach

" I could be flying to Mexicon on Alaska Air"

You would only need it to get back from Mexico. Going into Mexico on Alaska you would only make out a visa card handed to you on the flight.


44 posted on 04/10/2005 10:20:29 AM PDT by dalereed
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To: ArmyTeach

If you don't have a passport, it's time you should get one. It will make your life easier. I don't know how long it takes to get it when one lives in the States. In Panama, it takes two weeks to renew a passport. The U.S. Consul sends the request to the States where the passport is put together. I could be wrong, but I think you can do yours through the mail. You can look this information up in Google.


45 posted on 04/10/2005 10:22:08 AM PDT by Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)
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To: 1_Inch_Group; 2sheep; 2Trievers; 3AngelaD; 3rdcanyon; 4.1O dana super trac pak; 4Freedom; ...
Click to see other threads related to illegal aliens in America
Click to FR-mail me for addition or removal

Here's one ripe for discussion...

46 posted on 04/10/2005 2:26:50 PM PDT by HiJinx (Report Illegals ~ 1-877-USBP-HELP (872-7435))
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To: Marine Inspector
why wasn't it proposed on 9/12?

Because TSA was the perfect way to mistreat WASPs while ignoring real security risks. With the TSA being disbanded, a new way to look useful while engaging in WASP profiling had to be established. We must pretend that John Smith, Jane Doe, et al are security risks while giving a free pass to Achmed, Mohammed, et al. Thanks to Mineta, the ACLU, and a runaway judiciary, we ignore that most acts of terrorism against U.S. citizens have been committed by Muslims from Middle East countries.

47 posted on 04/10/2005 2:33:29 PM PDT by peyton randolph (Warning! It is illegal to fatwah a camel in all 50 states)
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To: sonali

Welcome. Well said.


48 posted on 04/10/2005 3:06:24 PM PDT by raybbr
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To: Marine Inspector
And speaking about strengthening border security by taking every precaution to screen out people who want to hurt us, what about the Mexican border?

If it takes the government about a decade after a terrorist plot to strengthen border security with the proposed document policy, what will it take -- and how long will it take after it happens -- to strengthen border security to stop the undocumented from walking in?

That's the $64,000 question isn't it? Maybe Bush knows this and he's willing to give them legal status with a wave of his hand. Bush must know, like we do, that any plan creating a new bureaucracy will be unworkable and this is why he claims "fast-track" if you will regarding his plan.

It doesn't change my mind. If anything it makes it worse. It shows that Bush is unwilling to take any steps to stem the flow from south of the border.

49 posted on 04/10/2005 3:20:20 PM PDT by raybbr
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To: Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)

I didn´t know that either. I have always had to have a passport to come in and out of Panama as well as the states.


50 posted on 04/10/2005 3:40:44 PM PDT by Americanexpat (A strong democracy through citizen oversight.)
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