Transcript of Glenn Beck Interview with Ken Mullinax (Re: Starving Mae)

aclearvoice.org ^ | 4-9-05 | Transcript of Interview

[schmelvin]

Ken: I’m the nephew of Mae Magouirk in LaGrange, Georgia. My family lives in Alabama. They’re from Addiston, Alabama and I live in Birmingham, Alabama and we love my aunt Mae very much and we can’t believe that, uh, she is being withheld substantial nourishment…

Glenn: Ken, tell me this, tell me the situation, uh, be, because your grandma has, your grandma had, or your aunt has a, um, a living will!

Ken: Yeah, she has a living will and the living will is not being obeyed. As a matter of fact her attending physician, Doctor Stadde of LaGrange, Georgia, said in probate court that even though Mae Magourik’s living will says tha, uh, that her nourishment and fluids should only be pulled if she’s comatose or vegetative, that he feels her life is such that it should be pulled regardless.

(snip)

Ken: And those of your listeners that are sitting by, complacent, thinking “oh, poor Terri Schindler-Schiavo.” And I was one of them last week. I said, “Oh it’s terrible, but it’s just a freak, it’s an anomaly. It couldn’t happen to us.”

The next day, it happened to us...

(snip)

Glenn: Let me ask you this Ken, let me ask you this. How did your, um, uh, how did your aunt’s uh, granddaughter get control of the situation?

Ken: How did she what?

Glenn: How did she get control. How did this happ…

Ken: Well I’ll tell you what. First of all she bluffed us. Uh, we went to the hospital in LaGrange when my aunt was first sick and Beth told my uncle, she said, “Uncle Buddy, don’t even start with me. I’ve got the medical durable power of attorney. I’m making the decisions.” And I said, “Beth, you know, we’re right here in front of your grandmother. Even though she’s on morphine, we shouldn’t talk about this. We should go out in the hall.”

We went out in the hall and we explained my mother’s in uh, she’s had a great quality of life for the last two years even though she was in a coma. [Ken's mother was only in a coma for 3 months, she is now living a normal, active life.] We can treat it without surgery. And she said, “Listen,” she said, she started crying, she said, “I’ve been praying about this and, and I’ve been praying to Jesus. Jesus has told me it’s time that grandmother went home to Jesus. She’s got glaucoma. Now she’s got a dissected aorta and her quality of life is just terrible and we just think she should just go to hospice.” And I said, “Beth, hospice is a synonym for death. We’ve got doctors who are ready to take care of her today.”

She goes, “no, I’ve got the medical power of attorney and that’s it.” So we thought our hands were tied, Glenn. A week goes by. Last Thursday my uncle and my mother independently started thinking, “this is wrong.” Since I used to be on Capitol Hill as a senior staff guy in Washington, I know my way around, so they said, “Kenny, get involved see what you can find out, we want to bring May to UAB hospital.” So I call hospice, I say to Frita the hospice nurse. I said, “what are my aunt’s vital stats at. She said, “well today, her blood pressure is 160/88 with a pulse of 84.” I said, “well that’s not so bad.” I said, “my aunt’s going to make it, isn’t she.” She says, “Oh no, your aunt’s not going to make it because we have withheld nourishment per geth…Beth Gaddy since March 28th.” She said, “I’ve been off the past few days. I’m surprised your aunt’s still alive.” I said, “What!”

Next time, I, she says, “call the hospice attorney.” I called Carol Todd, hospice attorney, ug, said “we’re going to be litigious.” She said, “let me check into it. Heard nothing all day, last Thursday, March 31st until 4 in the afternoon. Carol Todd called me up, “Oh my God, we made a mistake.” I said, “What are you talking about, mistake?” She said, “Beth has power of attorney, but it’s only financial, not medical durable power of attorney. And guess what? Your aunt has a living will and it says only should fluids and nourishment be withheld if she’s comatose or vegetative, she’s neither.”

I said, “Guess what, Mother, get on the phone.” Mom got on the phone. She said, “start IV fluids immediately.” They said, “we can do that.” She said, “start a temporary feeding tube just in the nose to give her nourishment and get her electrolytes back up so she can start feeding herself.” They said, “We can’t do that, you’ve gotta come in and sign the papers.” So, uh, Mom stayed here because she’s a little sick. My uncle Buddy, Aunt May’s brother and I went, the three hours from our homes to LaGrange, Georgia from our homes in Alabama. Hospice attorney Carol Todd was to meet us at 10 o’clock. She didn’t show up and the hospice head nurse talked to us, “oh, she needs to die. You know, the life’s over, no quality of life.”

And finally, we listened to this for about an hour and a half, and I said, “This is B.S. We want my aunt out of here now. I have world-class doctor Raed Agel of UAB’s cardiovascular unit arranging life-saver helicopter.” They kept inching us on out, Glenn, until Carol Todd the hospice attorney showed up and gave us a piece of paper. Turns out hospice had told Beth Gaddy the granddaughter that we were coming over, that she no longer had durable power of attorney and she went before the probate judge that morning and got a temporary emergency guardianship.

(snip)

Glenn: Oh, I gotta tell you, you can go to all the law schools, you say everybody on the Supreme Court, everybody on the 11th circuit court, everybody down in Florida, they all passed the bar and I gotta tell you man. Just because you went to school and, and passed the bar and you are an attorney and then you become a judge, doesn’t mean that you have common sense. I’m sick of these judges, man, sick to death of these judges. So let me ask you, did they put, did they, so they didn’t put the feeding tube back in. Was she, did, uh, did, how long has she been without food and water?

Ken: No, but they did have an IV in that we ordered on last Thursday and it was in her Friday, April 1st. But when the hospice person gave us this emergency decree from the probate judge, they took the IV liquids out right in front of us.

(snip)

Glenn: But, how much, how much time does she have?

Ken: That’s why I couldn’t wait on this compromise. It was supposed to be 24 hours from Monday. I waited all the way till Thursday. But how much time does she have? I don’t know. Because she’s 81 and the worst thing about it, you know, it’s bad that she’s not getting adequate nourishment or adequate fluids, but this is a little thing that, that may not mean anything to anybody but me or my aunt. But she, she has glaucoma. She can’t produce tears. She has to take drops to keep her eyes lubricated. She hasn’t had those drops in the last two weeks. She’s blind practically now. Opening her eyes is, is a terrible pain. And they won’t give her the drops.

(snip)

You can read the entire interview here:

http://www.aclearvoice.org/archives/2005/04/transcript_of_g.php

[schmelvin]

Someone asked me to post this here, so here it is.

The good news is that after this interview Mae was saved. She was removed from that hospice and transported to a hospital where she is now getting excellent care.

Thank You: To all the FReepers and supporters of Terri Schiavo who fought so hard to save Mae's life.

[schmelvin]

http://www.aclearvoice.org/archives/2005/04/transcript_of_g.php

[brytlea]

“oh, she needs to die. You know, the life’s over, no quality of life.”

This should chill the soul of every one of us.
susie

[brytlea]

“oh, she needs to die. You know, the life’s over, no quality of life.”

This should chill the soul of every one of us.
susie

[potlatch]

[Fred Nerks]

You all gotta come and see this! Thanks schmelvin for posting.

[PhilDragoo]

Greedy Beth Gaddy want duh money honey--

Hi, I'm Doctor Neil Warren of elarceny and Beth Gaddy and Michael Schiavo are just one of the millions of couples who've found their soulless mate on elarceny.

Now we'll see Beth Gaddy doing commercials on cable for KillGrannyDotCom.

Uncle Sam is still on guard in case this goes south:

[lastchance]

For Updates go to www.blogsforterri.com

[potlatch]

Uncle Sam is still on guard in case this goes south

I think it already came south in my direction recently when baby Sun died. His situation was somewhat different but still sad.

[ariamne]

In this case, a happy ending! Thank God the family fought this abomination tooth and nail. I hope the granddaughter is ostracized from the family for pulling this; she may try it again. This is scary, scary, scary, stuff..

Keep me pinged on other stories like this, Freddie, or if there is some action being taken.

[Fred Nerks]

No eye drops allowed for an old lady with glaucoma? No dental treatment or sunlight for Terri...
Show me no more 'prison torture' photographs, true torture is what is going on in a hospice near you.

[Wneighbor]

Mae Magouirk ping. If anybody wants on or off the list please let me know.

Thanks for posting this schmelvin!

[PGalt]

Thanks so much for posting. Glenn Beck is GREAT! Life!

[Fred Nerks]

"THEY TOOK THE IV LIQUIDS OUT RIGHT IN FRONT OF US"!

How blatant is that? Did they feel they would get away with it because nothing was able to stop the culture of death from killing Terri?

[Wneighbor]

true torture is what is going on in a hospice near you.

This was the topic of conversation among my neighborhood backyard chat this afternoon. The hopeful part is that I've got some pretty left-leaning and absolute falling off the left edge neighbors. Not one of us think this is okay. nada. nobody out chatting on my block this beautiful afternoon wanted to justify killing Terri or Mae or anyone like them.

It at least relieves my heart that I don't have to argue *this* issue of life among these folks.

[PhilDragoo]

No eye drops allowed for an old lady with glaucoma? No dental treatment or sunlight for Terri... Show me no more 'prison torture' photographs, true torture is what is going on in a hospice near you.

Roger that. Nobody risked death from the abu Ghraib antics; the same can't be said for Woodside, LaGrange and Ted's Oldsmobile.

[nicmarlo]

bttt

[TNdandelion]

I hope Aunt Mae changes her will and disowns her granddaughter! I'd love to see her press charges!

[Smartass]

 

[Fred Nerks]

Sally posted this link on a previous thread:

http://home.earthlink.net/%7Ejoyinlife/

Save it: Unbelievable. Hair Raising. Terrifying.

[Fred Nerks]

Your democrat neighbours admit they are not imortal? No, seriously, this issue of hospice death culture touches us all, it's way beyong polictics IMO.

[potlatch]

Hi smartA, better not to get into all the turmoil again, huh?

[EmilyGeiger]

I hope she is at UAB because it is a wonderful hospital. The whole situation is terrible but why were they withdrawing eye drops from her? How horrible. The people in hospices act as if it is bothersome to have to care for anyone. I know not all are this way but lately everything you hear about them makes you believe they would not want to have to take care of anyone.

[Smartass]

I'll hold your coat, and sponge you off!

[potlatch]

LOL, no need, I was already off and looking at javascript sites!!

[Fred Nerks]

http://www.hopsicepatients.org/terri-schiavo-10-12-02-press-rel.html (snip)

---

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:

CONTACT:
Ron Panzer, President
Hospice Patients Alliance, Inc.
http://www.hospicepatients.org

(616) 866-9127

---

Hospice Patients Alliance Blasts Hospice Agencies
That Terrorize the Chronically Disabled



by Ron Panzer, President HPA
GRAND RAPIDS, MI - October 15, 2002 - Terri Schiavo currently is being held in a Pinellas County Florida hospice that is not licensed to provide care for the chronically ill. Terri Schiavo is a non-terminal disabled patient with brain damage. Terri's own treating physician, Dr. Vincent Gambone, testified before the court,saying "her condition is one that there is no recovery. The damage that is done to the brain is not repairable."1 However, the chronically disabled are by definition not going to recover completely. These are not terminal patients, and the disabled can live many years so long as they are not intentionally killed.

Terrorizing the Disabled in America
The practice of enrolling chronically disabled patients into hospice endangers all disabled citizens of the United States and directly violates their Constitutional rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. The disabled are not so much afraid of getting anthrax or being shot; they are afraid that society will toss them away like a used tissue and kill them. The disabled are terrorized by those holier-than-thou self-proclaimed bioethicists who have no morality and no sense of humanity and proclaim, like Adolf Hitler, that the disabled are "better off dead."

Adolf Hitler summarily executed the mentally ill and developmentally disabled "for the greater good of society." The utilitarian philosophy which promotes the killing of patients in order to save health care resources for others has plunged the US health care system to a depth which calls for shame and disgust. If hospice is to become a killing center for the disabled, then hospice agencies that do so are no different from the gas chambers in Nazi Germany.

Adolf Hitler had his program of euthanasia going on throughout World War II. He relished the opportunity that wartime gave him to carry out his agenda to kill the disabled:


Wartime, Adolf Hitler suggested, "was the best time for the elimination of the incurably ill." Many Germans did not want to be reminded of individuals who did not measure up to their concept of a "master race." The physically and mentally handicapped were viewed as "useless" to society, a threat to Aryan genetic purity, and, ultimately, unworthy of life. At the beginning of World War II, individuals who were mentally retarded, physically handicapped, or mentally ill were targeted for murder in what the Nazis called the "T-4," or "euthanasia," program.

The "euthanasia" program required the cooperation of many German doctors, who reviewed the medical files of patients in institutions to determine which handicapped or mentally ill individuals should be killed. The doctors also supervised the actual killings. 2

Terri Schiavo would have been summarily executed by Hitler's agents of death. Anyone who harms her, by removing her feedings and causing her to become dehydated, is killing her just as if they shot her with a bullet, just as if they were part of Adolf Hitler's Nazi death squads.

Hospice that enrolls Non-Terminal Patients Commits Fraud
The United States Office of Inspector General has issued its warning to the public about questionable hospice agency practices and stated that some hospices have been found to engage in, "practices which ... have inappropriately maximized their Medicare reimbursements at beneficiary expense. These practices include: Making incorrect determinations of a person’s life expectancy for purposes of meeting hospice eligibility criteria."3 A hospice that bills Medicare, Medicaid or a private insurer for a non-terminal patient is violating the contracts which allow hospices to provide services for the terminally ill.

Hospices are not licensed to care for the chronically ill. In order for a patient to be admitted to hospice, the physician must "certify" that the patient is likely to die within six months due to a terminal illness. Terri Schiavo has no terminal illness; the only cause of death in her case would be her intentional murder by those intent on ending her life.

Original Hospice Mission Violated
The original hospice mission is to care for, support and manage the symptoms of the terminally ill until a death occurs in its own natural timing. Every hospice nurse and physician knows that hospice is supposed to neither hasten death nor seek to cure the terminal illness. Hastening the death of a patient goes against everything hospice stands for.

Although Terri Schiavo's case will be decided in a Pinellas County courthouse, any hospice that accepts a chronically ill patient has violated not only the spirit of hospice and the mission of hospice, but the federal regulations governing hospice4

Hospice Organization Remains Silent on Euthanasia Case
It is mind-boggling that the national organizations promoting hospice in this country have remained silent about Terri Schiavo's case, the stream of intentional killings in hospices across our nation and the killings going on in Oregon. Anyone who is informed about the killings in Oregon know that the state of Oregon is NOT reporting the full truth about the cases and that there are cases which are not even recorded by the state.

Hospice lobbying groups like the National Hospice and Palliative Care Organization and the state hospice associations need to act immediately to preserve the hospice mission before hospice practice descends into the gutter and hospice becomes synonymous with "house-of-murder." It is common knowledge among the public that some hospices routinely kill their patients with overdosages of morphine and sedatives before the patient dies a natural death from the terminal illness.

These national groups need to take a stand for morality, ethics and compassion. They loudly proclaim that hospice is "compassion and caring for the dying," but killing the disabled is the furthest thing from "compassionate" or "caring." They do nothing when non-terminal patients are threatened by those who wish to kill them in a hospice. Hospice staff throughout the nation eagerly learn how to terminally sedate patients and then end patient's lives (through dehydration and circulatory collapse) when they have no medical need for sedation.5 Many physicians are more than willing to end the lives of their patients. (See 6, and 7. And approximately 50 per cent of physicians in our nation approve of physician-assisted suicide8!)

[PhilDragoo]

A very complete overview of undertakers posing as physicians.

[Smartass]

Some Java script work for me and a lot doesn't! I was working on some html scripts last night and today. It seems when I add Java, LOL...I get Tsunamied.

[Smartass]

Exactly! Hard to imagine this goes on hourly, daily, and weekly.

[Wneighbor]

Yes, the death culture is reaching for us all and not by the means that God has planned for us.

The fact that there is no dissenting opinion among more than a half dozen households causes me to wonder if it's because the democrat households are just nominally liberal (being deep in red state territory.) Something I find sorta plausible, they all at least profess to be Christian, though some don't have a clue what that involves as I know it.

But, also, this is a "middle class" working neighborhood. Some of us are financially secure, others struggle from paycheck to paycheck. If the question were brought out in the open I think we'd all have to say we'd be on a hospice death list if physical circumstances took a turn for the worse. So, maybe your immortality question has some meat in it.

All of us except one couple have been in situations where we have had to care for dying relatives also. Because we've been there we fail to grasp the motives (we agree on money being the motive) of the families who promote death.

On the west side of me is an older couple. The man has a serious heart problem. I think they are actually "living" in a similar situation now to that Mae is in. I'm thinkin' that man's wife or either of his kids would kill somebody that tried to dehydrate and starve Chuck. (They are conservatives not liberals anyway)

See, I wasn't kidding, this afternoon's conversation and lack of disagreement from *anyone* along my alleyway have really made me think. I hope this bodes as something that could turn to momentum for LIFE. I just can't give up hope. This at least seemed positive though I can only speculate as to the root of our agreement.

[potlatch]

I get Tsunamied.

LOLOL, maybe that's why you couldn't 'see' my webpages, I have lots of javascript and Dynamic HTML which doesn't show up on some browsers!!

[Wneighbor]

I don't know personally about UAB but Kenneth's mother, Mae's sister has been successfully treated non-surgically for the same condition Mae has for some years now. Kenneth said that his mom's doctor immediatly said he would also treat Mae. Sounds like it's a reliable place at least when they've kept the sister alive for 5? (I think) years when the Georgia hospice gave Mae no hope.

[knuthom]

Greedy Beth Gaddy want duh money honey

I heard Rush Limbaugh say something to the effect that his medical/legal papers say that no one who benefits by his death gets to make the decision to withdraw life support.

[Smartass]

Your web page didn't show on my computer!   I have MS-XP, IE version 6, a gig of ram, all the security junko turned on, and it's still a no-go. Gotta chat with Bill Gates next time I see him.

[PhilDragoo]

And that's an excellent way to keep the feeding tube in him and the daggers out of him.

[potlatch]

Yes, that puzzles me too. I'm going to have to send all my page urls to some of my friends and ask them what they get. I know I overload them with .gifs!!

[Former Dodger]

Thanks for the ping, Fred....Thanks for the post schmelvin,

This is great news, I've seen some posts about this case and I am glad to hear that morals and common sense prevailed...then again, it wasn't in Florida.

God bless and keep Mae...

[Smartass]

Send me some code and I'll give you some dumb comments?

[schmelvin]

My mom is a rabid Democrat. I was almost afraid to ask her what she thought about Terri Schiavo's death, but I asked anyway.

It turns out my mom was very upset about what they did to Terri, and she was horrified when I told her about what Mae went through.

I would really like to hear Mae tell her side of the story someday. I would be very interested to hear what she has to say about the way she was treated.

[maica]

The good news is that after this interview Mae was saved. She was removed from that hospice and transported to a hospital where she is now getting excellent care.

A must read interview!

[Fred Nerks]

I have been thinking about this issue for several weeks as a result of taking part on various Terri threads. I have noticed how several Freepers have argued on the side of the 'Right to Die' and much of their opinion has been shaped by personal experience, some have allied themselves to the death lobby only because of a certain amount of guilt they feel for allowing a relative to be admitted to a hospice, without a clear understanding of what happens to the patient once he/she is admitted. They fight tooth and claw to justify their own actions, and thus appear to place themselves into the death-by-hospice camp.

Once the truth about 'hospice care' is out in the open, the guilt they feel should be elminated. The entire concept is based upon a lie. Death with dignity! What BS. No treatment, no therapy, no facilities, IMO hospice care is no better than taking a lost dog to the Pound. (But in a Pound, if a new owner is found, at least the animal is allowed to be released!) Miss Mae is probably one of the very few who ever escaped with her life. Miss Mae may not live - but if she dies, her stay in the hospice certainly contributed to her death. (I pray she lives many years.)
I have an aged mother, 90 yo. Healthy and independant. She has made it clear she wishes no life-support, but NEVER WILL SHE BE COMMITTED TO A HOSPICE.

[ladyjane]

true torture is what is going on in a hospice near you.

It's about time people found out about hospice.

[Wneighbor]

I would really like to hear Mae tell her side of the story someday. I would be very interested to hear what she has to say about the way she was treated.

Me too. I hope she at least "leaks" some information to a freeper or two who was in contact with Kenneth even if she doesn't go public.

I was pretty flabbergasted that I didn't have to debate these cases (Terri or Mae) with anybody in the neighborhood. The area runs the gamut of political party affiliations and sometimes the lines get blurry on issues but this one was 100% life. That's a good thing with all we hear in the media.

[schmelvin]

IMO hospice care is no better than taking a lost dog to the Pound. (But in a Pound, if a new owner is found, at least the animal is allowed to be released!)

Wow! You really hit the nail on the head with that one.

[BykrBayb]

Thanks so much for posting this. I listened to the interview, but I missed part of it. I had tried to call the granddaughter, only to find the line out of order. I had speculated that she got so many calls, her line had burst into flames.

When Glenn said We tried to get a hold of, the uh, the granddaughter. But, do uh, do you have another way of getting a hold of her? She’s, uh, her phone is not working. Then Ken answered Well it turned out that the bloggers for Terri Schiavo gave her about two or three thousand telephone calls yesterday, I laughed so hard I missed the rest of the interview.

[Calpernia]

If I wasn't so beyond disgusted with this topic(meaning the reality of what is happening....not meaning this topic posted)....I may have laughed at your post. It was very witty.

[Wneighbor]

One interesting thing also came out from the last few weeks of my neighborhood discussions. The couple on the east of me are moderate to left-leaning. The lady works in administration at a local nursing home. She wasn't happy with a lot of what she heard about Terri but during our Thursday night and Friday activities for Mae she got the news of what I was up to. She was horrified when she heard the facts of Mae's situation. She was more knowledgeable about the medical things surrounding Mae's case than I was. She said there was no way that lady should be in hospice and no way it was time for her to die.

She's commented on many occasions that hospice is a place to die. Where she works, only residents who are really about to die go to hospice. Her whole concept of hospice from her professional knowledge is hospice=death. So, that lines right up with your "lost dog going to the pound" analogy.

Now, that one lady and I agree on something political about one in 20 times. But, on this, she is one of the most outspoken for life. Interesting huh?

[PhilDragoo]

Bolton: So I say to the honorable senator from Massachusetts, let he who is without sin cast the first empty.

[t2buckeye]

If this is hospice, it has changed in the last 10 years. My dad had terminal cancer...he tried EVERYTHING..he was a fighter, but when the cancer was spotted on his backbone and in his liver, he decided that he'd had enough chemo. Hospice helped my mom keep my dad comfortable...when he needed oxygen for comfort, they gave it to him.
I think when hospice is involved with TERMINAL patients with cancer, they can be very helpful with pain management...and believe me, the pain is acute! The issue is that obviously people are being sent to hospice that should NOT be. Terri and this woman should NOT have been placed in hospice...they don't fit the criteria. WIthholding food and water from ANYONE is a horrible way to die!. In hospice, my dad was not withheld anything...everything was aimed at making him as comfortable as possible. Obviously, this hospice does not follow the same creed.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thanks for the ping!