Posted on 04/11/2005 4:45:11 AM PDT by Jeff Head
We also have to be careful about being used by India who wants to burn the candle at both ends. They play footsie with the former Soviets and now with Red China while winking at us and saying, "If you don't give us what we want, we'll jump in bed with them."
That's not a way to secure our interests and democracy and sets up for a very tenuous alliance.
India is either on the side of free markets and democracy, or they are socialist/communist. We should do what we can to foster free trade and democracy (as we have done with Red China), but that's no guarantee that their intentions are in tune with ours.
I believe we should treat the ChiComms as Reagan did the Soviets...but that's just my opinion.
And as to their products...from their perspective they have found a mesmerizing way to shed their failed Moaist and Marxist economic models while holding on to their totalitarian authority and political ideologies (which, I must add, are the antithesis of our own). And they are doing it on our dime, with those cheap products made with people who are never destined in their thinking to ever be more than the cheap chattel for their rise.
As an engineering consultant I have been over there and seen it first hand. They are using their new found economic expansion, among other things, to fuel a massive military buildup...those are the facts. There can be but one object for that buildup.
You have an absolutely warped and distorted view of history. Communist North Korea brazingly invaded a free South Korea and the United States, assited by other nations of the world, evicted them...then China invaded N. Korea and pushed us back into South Korea and we had to push them back out of Seoul again. You speak as if China's role in the Korean War were some form of benevolant ally coming to the aide of a downtrodded and abused friend, that we were at faulkt ands should simply "understand". There is no moral equivalence, N. Korea and China are despotic tyrannies. The other is unadulterated BS, I had relatives who fought there and know better thant to accept or tolerate such revisionist garbage.
I know a lot more Chinese died in the fighting than Americans...and so do the Chinese leaders. That was part of their equation...quantity has a quality all its own, and they had the quantity and chose to use it. Sadly, we did not do what we should have done and ended it right there as MacAuthur wanted to.
The fact is, that Chinese on orders from their government invaded, attacked and in the process killed Americans. Cut and dice that however you choose...but it is a strict and abject odds with your statementa that they have never threatened us. All of your platitudes and other talk aside are just meanderings that try and hide that fact.
The Chinese have nuclear weapons, they have threatened to use them on us. They have the capability, It is not a threat we can take lightly, especially in light of their historical actions since the communist state took power, over and over again to their own people by the tens of millions, and to nations and peoples around them (Tibet, S. Korea, etc.) Sorry, those are facts of history tat are not just conveinently whitewashed.
As to your statement that they are moving towards our system...that IMHO, is ludicrous. The Chinese government has no intention of being free or seeing true economic prosperity come to their masses of people outside of the old party memebrs and their lackeys who run the place. But that is a large number of people and they have the wherewithall to put on a good show for visiting "dignitaries" and people of influence any time they choose. I have seen it.
So pardon me if I do not buy such swill and Bravo Sierra. The best hope we have, outside of squelching the ChiComm heirarchy and doing as Reagan did to the Soviets, is for the people of China to rise up themselves and save us the trouble of evicting their thoroughly corrupt government ideology. Otherwise, sooner or later there is going to be significant conflict between the two nations IMHO.
There attempts to put India in their pocket and sphere of influence only further illustrate that.
From my perspective, you have nothing but an apologist attitude and whitewash of the murderous and tyranical nature of the Chinese government. So be it, you have a right to whatever opinion you want.
The Chinese are embarked on a massive military buildup that is producing more ships and aircraft, many, many more, that we are producing on an annual basis. New modern, equipment. Their budget is much smaller than ours, but most of our budget is consumed by the necessary spending of a free people to ensure the quality of life of our soldiers and their families, and their long term health and retirement benefits. The Chinese are spending it on combat harware. The difference is apparent and the meaning is clear.
You know how to make tye die? I bet you got one cool lava lamp....
True we havent gone to war recently with china but to say it as you said it isn;t right at all.
There is more than once force at work inside of China. Some want to be friendly....others mean us harm.
Don't be niaeve to that reality.
So tell me how do you look at this India-China partnership?
Horse hockey. They have nuclear weapons. That is enough.
Please, feel free to post facts and figures proving that the Chicoms only spend about US 4 billion a year on their military.
...and I suppose the excess of 40 million Chinese killed by their own government under Mao and the Cultural Revoultion were all acceptable stepping stones to what they have today. Get this man, the masses there are still not free, or anything close to it. They are not intended to be by their communist rulers. As I said before, the best hope will be for them to rise up en masse...but that's going to be hard to do when we solve the communist's economic problems for them as we are doing and allow them to consolidate more and more power and control over these people and their labors. Oh yes, their lot will improve marginally (and anything over what they have been used to will be viewed as a lot), so they can be kept in order to continue the productuion house.
But let's keep going with this benevolent state. Teinnammen Square I suppose was just an unfortunate riot by unruly, barbarous and ingrateful young people that had to be put down by the benevolent and friendly communist commisars for the good of all?
Our entry into Korea in defense of the free people there in the face of blatant invasion and horror was some kind of crime on our part? ...and the benevolent Chinese were just helping a friend being unjustly brutalized by the merciless, war mongering United States? Get a life. I had family shed blood there in defense of the freedom of those S. Korean people and your absolute bravo sierra and defense of the indefensable is beyond the pale.
Man, I have neve seen such a blatant example of progogandized, apologists, sympathetic BS in all my life.
We have a saying where I was raised in Texas. It goes like this...that dog don't hunt
If you don't catch the idiom because you're not that familiar with such things I am sure, it means the following...No one is buying what you have to sell.
Look, pardon my emnotion...we are absoultely at odds on this. Differ fundamentally. I value every life as you do...but I value free will and expression more than life, as my forebearers did. I pray the Chinese people can attain that...but it's not going to happen with the current regime and the support we are giving them economically. Sooner or later, as they build their own Greater Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere under their totalitarian government, the results will lead to the same as when the Japanese foisted the same thing in the 1930s and 1940s...and the results will be the same after tremndous loss.
IMHO, better to challenge them directly now economically and take the lesser pain, as hard as that may be, and head off the major conflict scenario before it takes shape. I am afraid it is rapidly becoming almost too late for even that.
We don't have to see the kind of shows that you have seen to see if these people have more peace of mind or freedom.
This single line outweighs anything else you could say.
It is proof that you are reading from a script prepared for you by your master. In other words, you have been indoctrinated with bravo sierra.
Bingo.
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