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New Pope's First Message? 'A Name is a Sign' 
Reuters | April 14, 2005 | Tom Heneghan

Posted on 04/16/2005 4:46:53 PM PDT by NYer

VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - The first message a new pope sends to the world is encoded in the name he chooses.

If Roman Catholicism's next leader calls himself John Paul III, that would signal continuity. "John" would connote a gentle father while "Pius" could herald an era of deep conservatism.

A name from the distant papal past -- improbable ones like Zephyrinus, Hilarus or Formosus -- would send Catholics scurrying to their history books to see what it could mean.

The maxim "Nomen est omen" (Latin for "a name is a sign") is as valid today for popes as it was for ancient Romans whose emperors took new names or titles when they assumed power.

"It's a practice that goes back as far as the Book of Genesis, where Abram changed his name to Abraham," said John-Peter Pham, a former Vatican diplomat and papal historian.

"Simon changed his name to Peter, which means rock," he added. "Because Christ said he was the rock on which he would build the Church."

There is no law saying popes must choose a new name, but a tradition more than 1,000 years old cannot be ignored. Popes declare their choice right after being elected.

POPE STANISLAS?

The first pope known to have changed his name was John II in 533. He was previously called Mercury but thought the Christian pontiff should not have the name of a pagan Roman god.

This became more common after an 18-year-old with another name from pagan times, Octavian, was chosen in a rigged election in 955 and decided to take the name John XII. A man named Peter opted for Sergius IV in 1009 out of respect for the first pope.

Popes who bore the name Pius made it synonymous with deep conservativism.

Pius IX (1846-1878) rejected democracy, Pius X (1903-1914) denounced modern liberal politics and Pius XI (1922-1939) ran the Church in an autocratic way, Pham said. Under Pius XII (1939-1958), the Church cracked down on liberal theologians.

Cardinal Angelo Roncalli reportedly spent the evening before his election as John XXIII in 1958 thumbing through a list of popes to check what earlier Johns had done.

When Albino Luciani was elected in 1978, he took the first double name in papal history, John Paul I, to show he wanted to combine John XXIII's reforms with the more traditional stand of his immediate predecessor, Paul VI (1963-1978).

When John Paul I died 33 days later, Cardinal Karol Wojtyla of Poland honored him by taking the name John Paul II. "It is said that he considered something more Slavic, like Stanislas, but then thought the better of it," Pham said.

The next pope could be tempted to call himself John Paul III. But if Wojtyla goes down in history as John Paul the Great, as his supporters want, a successor taking his name could risk being known as John Paul the Lesser.

PUNTERS PICKS

Without knowing the identity of the next pope, it is hard to guess which name he will pick -- but that hasn't stopped Dublin bookmakers Paddy Power from opening betting on it.

A surprise choice -- Benedict -- leads the pack ahead of John Paul and John, mostly because someone has placed an unusually large bet on it, company spokesman Paddy Power said.

The choice of Benedict could signal a subtle shift to more moderate policies, judging from the way the Benedict XV turned away from Pius X's rigorous anti-modern stand, Pham said.

"We were surprised because we thought John Paul or John would certainly be on top," said Power, who had no explanation for Benedict's popularity.

"There seems to be some connection between Cardinal Jean-Marie Lustiger and the name Benedict," he said, referring to the former Paris archbishop deemed too old to be in the race.

"The same person who put a big bet on Lustiger also bet big on Benedict."


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: cardinals; conclave; election; name; nextpope; piffleaboutthepope; pope; vatican
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1 posted on 04/16/2005 4:46:55 PM PDT by NYer
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To: american colleen; Lady In Blue; Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; Notwithstanding; ...
Source: FULL TEXT

Catholic Ping
Please freepmail me if you want on/off this list


2 posted on 04/16/2005 4:48:25 PM PDT by NYer ("America needs much prayer, lest it lose its soul." John Paul II)
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To: NYer
Peter the 2nd...... Watch out!! the end is near...!!! lol

Well... that's what they say. If the next Pope picks Peter what will be going theough your mind...lol

3 posted on 04/16/2005 4:54:03 PM PDT by Bob Eimiller (Kerry, Kennedy, Pelosi, Leahy, Kucinich, Durbin Pro Abort Catholics Excommunication?)
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To: NYer

Prayin' for a Pius here!


4 posted on 04/16/2005 4:55:48 PM PDT by netmilsmom (Oh Lord help me this day to keep my big mouth shut)
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Comment #5 Removed by Moderator

To: NYer

how about we name the next pop after one who saw a need to begin the defensive wars known as the crusades?


6 posted on 04/16/2005 4:58:04 PM PDT by CzarNicky (The problem with bad ideas is that they seemed like good ideas at the time.)
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To: NYer

Let's get back to the early days -- Linus, Cletus, Clement, Sixtus, Fabian, Damasus, Symmachus, Calixtus ...


7 posted on 04/16/2005 5:00:09 PM PDT by Unam Sanctam
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Comment #8 Removed by Moderator

Comment #9 Removed by Moderator

To: NYer

How about Stephen VIII?


10 posted on 04/16/2005 5:02:32 PM PDT by ambrose (....)
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To: Unam Sanctam

I like Pope Ronald.


11 posted on 04/16/2005 5:03:35 PM PDT by LauraJean (sometimes I win sometimes I donate to the equine benevolent society)
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To: NYer

I'd as soon have another Urban, all of that name have had a history of hostility to muslims.


12 posted on 04/16/2005 5:04:42 PM PDT by Guard Dog (The strong do what they can, the weak suffer what they must)
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To: NYer

Stephen the VIII or Formosus II would be my picks...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadaver_Synod


13 posted on 04/16/2005 5:05:17 PM PDT by ambrose (....)
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To: NYer
I'm keeping my mobile phone with me at all times. Should I get the call from Rome, be prepared for Pope Bubba.


14 posted on 04/16/2005 5:05:57 PM PDT by southernnorthcarolina (UNC Tar Heels: NCAA Basketball Champions 1957/1982/1993/2005)
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To: Guard Dog
That's the name I was looking for.
15 posted on 04/16/2005 5:08:42 PM PDT by CzarNicky (The problem with bad ideas is that they seemed like good ideas at the time.)
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To: ambrose

It better not be John Paul Steven.


16 posted on 04/16/2005 5:11:32 PM PDT by Vigilanteman (crime would drop like a sprung trapdoor if we brought back good old-fashioned hangings)
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To: NYer

How do you like the associations Reuters makes with "conservatism":

"rejected democracy"; "rejected modern liberal politics" (OK, not so bad); "autocratic".

I don't know why I bother complaining...I should be used to it by now.


17 posted on 04/16/2005 5:11:59 PM PDT by poindexter
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To: Great Prophet Zarquon

Ok, that took me a moment. You really think outside the box sometimes. :)


18 posted on 04/16/2005 5:12:10 PM PDT by IrishCatholic (No local communist or socialist party chapter? Join the Democrats, it's the same thing.)
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To: NYer
[ "Simon changed his name to Peter, which means rock," he added. "Because Christ said he was the rock on which he would build the Church." ]

Almost correct....
"Because Christ said he was "A" rock on which he would build the Church."

19 posted on 04/16/2005 5:12:55 PM PDT by hosepipe (This Propaganda has been edited to include not a small amount of Hyperbole..)
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Comment #20 Removed by Moderator

To: southernnorthcarolina
LOL.
21 posted on 04/16/2005 5:15:21 PM PDT by spetznaz (Nuclear tipped ICBMs: The Ultimate Phallic Symbol.)
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To: NYer

After John Paul, George would logically be next ;)

Actually, there has never been a Pope George before....


22 posted on 04/16/2005 5:22:03 PM PDT by mikrofon (Cqatholic BUMP)
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To: hosepipe
"Because Christ said he was "A" rock on which he would build the Church."

Not in the original Greek. Matthew 16:18: kai epi tauth th petra . It's sort of a double emphasis - tauth th means "this very same" - it's intensive. It wasn't "the".

23 posted on 04/16/2005 5:22:14 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother (. . . Ministrix of ye Chace (recess appointment), TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary . . .)
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Comment #24 Removed by Moderator

To: mikrofon
After John Paul, George would logically be next ;)

Followed, of course, by Pope Ringo.

25 posted on 04/16/2005 5:25:34 PM PDT by GreenHornet
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To: NYer

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1351430/posts

Read this then, for some thinking on a Saturday night.


26 posted on 04/16/2005 5:29:12 PM PDT by combat_boots (Dug in and not budging an inch. NOT to be schiavoed, greered, or felosed as a patient)
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To: NYer

Pope Dubya?


27 posted on 04/16/2005 5:37:01 PM PDT by sgtbono2002
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To: NYer

Pope Bob


28 posted on 04/16/2005 5:38:35 PM PDT by brooklin
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To: NYer
The first pope known to have changed his name was John II in 533. He was previously called Mercury but thought the Christian pontiff should not have the name of a pagan Roman god.

I think that 'Pope Mercury Marquis Brougham' would be perfectly appropo.
29 posted on 04/16/2005 5:43:10 PM PDT by Mad Mammoth
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To: combat_boots

"The same person who put a big bet on Lustiger also bet big on Benedict."

The Glory of the Olive


30 posted on 04/16/2005 5:57:49 PM PDT by Beach_Babe (A nation that kills its own children has no future.)
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To: NYer

Thank you


31 posted on 04/16/2005 6:10:29 PM PDT by anonymoussierra ("Et iube me venire ad te, ut cum Sanctis tuis laudem te in saecula saeculorum. Amen."Totus Tuus!!!!)
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Comment #32 Removed by Moderator

To: combat_boots
Yes, I am well familiar with St. Malachy's prophesies. The next pope is:

The Glory of the Olive. The Order of St. Benedict has said this Pope will come from their order. It is interesting that Jesus gave his apocalyptic prophecy about the end of time from the Mount of Olives. This Pope will reign during the beginning of the tribulation Jesus spoke of. The 111th prophesy is "Gloria Olivae" (The Glory of the Olive). The Order of Saint Benedict has claimed that this pope will come from their ranks. Saint Benedict himself prophesied that before the end of the world his Order, known also as the Olivetans, will triumphantly lead the Catholic Church in its fight against evil.

What's truly intriguing is that John Paul II was ...

The Labor of the Son. JOHN PAUL II. 1978-Present. John Paul II is the most travelled Pope in history. He has circled the globe numerous times, preaching to huge audiences everywhere he goes. Even though he was once shot, he has not seemed to slow down. He has recently written a book which has enjoyed a large circulation. Like the sun which never ceases to labor and provides light daily, this Pope has been incessant. John Paul II was born on May 18, 1920. On that date in the morning there was a near total eclipse of the sun over Europe. TProphecy - The 110th Pope is "De Labore Solis" (Of the Solar Eclipse, or, From the Toil of the Sun). The corresponding pope is John Paul II (1978-present). John Paul II was born on May 8, 1920 during an eclipse of the sun. Like the sun he came out of the East (Poland). Like the sun he has visited countries all around the globe while doing his work (he is the most-traveled pope in history).

John Paul II was born on the day of an eclipse and his funeral was also on the day of an eclipse. Normally, I pay little heed to these prophecies but this is beyond coincidence.

Gloria Olivae might also represent an olive branch. This pope would bring peace to the most troubled parts of the world - the Middle East? Worth weighing once we know who has been chosen.

33 posted on 04/16/2005 6:15:09 PM PDT by NYer ("America needs much prayer, lest it lose its soul." John Paul II)
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To: Great Prophet Zarquon
It's really not hard at all. It's the Symbol font. The HTML goes like this:

< Font Face=Symbol > put your greek text here.< /font >. Be sure to leave the space between "font" and "face" in the command or it won't work. You can supercopy your text from another website that uses the Symbol typeface (e.g. greekbible.com).

To make it work instead of showing up like it does here, just close up the spaces between the brackets and the HTML commands.

34 posted on 04/16/2005 6:16:25 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother (. . . Ministrix of ye Chace (recess appointment), TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary . . .)
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To: brooklin

Just for fun, I think I'd like "Pope Dwayne."


35 posted on 04/16/2005 6:16:55 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o
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To: wildman33
Delta is ready when you are.

For heaven's sake, if you don't want to read about the conclave, go click on something else.

A good number of folks on FR don't remember any other pope, and this story is of some historical interest (as well as being of pretty serious interest to those of us who are Catholic.)

I grant you there's a dearth of hard news due to the cardinals' (commendable) decision not to gossip to the press. But nobody is making you read this.

36 posted on 04/16/2005 6:21:01 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother (. . . Ministrix of ye Chace (recess appointment), TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary . . .)
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To: NYer

Peter the Roman ?


37 posted on 04/16/2005 6:22:23 PM PDT by VRWCTexan (History has a long memory - but still repeats itself)
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To: wildman33

you say that you are a protestant....what are you protesting and why. The Catholic Church existed, without your help for more than 1500 years....along came "reformers" who thought they knew better than Christ, how to form a church......congratulations,, you now have more than 20,000 different protestant denominations, all of whom think they have it right. THEY DON'T


38 posted on 04/16/2005 6:24:29 PM PDT by terycarl (G)
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To: AnAmericanMother
[ Not in the original Greek. Matthew 16:18: kai epi tauth th petra . It's sort of a double emphasis - tauth th means "this very same" - it's intensive. It wasn't "the". ]

It was a metaphor.. the meaning is lost by some perceiving it to be literal.. bastardizing the metaphor to a different very convenient meaning..

39 posted on 04/16/2005 6:27:28 PM PDT by hosepipe (This Propaganda has been edited to include not a small amount of Hyperbole..)
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To: NYer
After two John Pauls, I think the next pope should be George Ringo.

;-)

Garde la Foi, mes amis! Nous nous sommes les sauveurs de la République! Maintenant et Toujours!
(Keep the Faith, my friends! We are the saviors of the Republic! Now and Forever!)

LonePalm, le Républicain du verre cassé (The Broken Glass Republican)

40 posted on 04/16/2005 6:30:02 PM PDT by LonePalm (Commander and Chef)
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Comment #41 Removed by Moderator

To: brooklin
Pope Bob

Thanks, but no - I put in my application, but they said that something in the background check just didn't pan out.

42 posted on 04/16/2005 6:37:47 PM PDT by Tennessee_Bob (This tagline is Bush's fault.)
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To: hosepipe
First you say it was "the", not "this". You were unfortunately wrong, and you were called on it.

Now you say it's a "bastardized" metaphor - well, it's clearly a metaphor, because Saint Peter was not a chunk of granite at the foot of Mt. Hermon.

I think you just showed me a weasel.

43 posted on 04/16/2005 6:37:53 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother (. . . Ministrix of ye Chace (recess appointment), TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary . . .)
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To: LonePalm

Pope Eggman? Pope Walrus?


44 posted on 04/16/2005 6:40:10 PM PDT by Tennessee_Bob (This tagline is Bush's fault.)
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To: NYer
"It's a practice that goes back as far as the Book of Genesis, where Abram changed his name to Abraham," said John-Peter Pham, a former Vatican diplomat and papal historian.

"Simon changed his name to Peter, which means rock," he added. "Because Christ said he was the rock on which he would build the Church."

I couldn't really keep reading after this. These men didn't change their names. God changed their names.

What's a John-Peter Pham? Sounds like a liberation-theology anti-catholic.

45 posted on 04/16/2005 6:44:22 PM PDT by johnb838 (Santo Subito! Presto!)
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To: LauraJean

How about Ronaldus Magnus II?


46 posted on 04/16/2005 6:45:37 PM PDT by johnb838 (Santo Subito! Presto!)
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To: Vigilanteman

John Paul George Ringo?


47 posted on 04/16/2005 6:46:25 PM PDT by johnb838 (Santo Subito! Presto!)
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To: AnAmericanMother
[ First you say it was "the", not "this". You were unfortunately wrong, and you were called on it. ]

I said it was "A" rock not "THE" rock... big difference..
I said Nothing about "THIS" anything..
We might be on the same page here..

48 posted on 04/16/2005 6:47:53 PM PDT by hosepipe (This Propaganda has been edited to include not a small amount of Hyperbole..)
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To: Mad Mammoth

He was out all night with the Grand Marquis...


49 posted on 04/16/2005 6:47:56 PM PDT by johnb838 (Santo Subito! Presto!)
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To: NYer
his funeral was also on the day of an eclipse.

What eclipse? I didn't hear about any eclipse.

50 posted on 04/16/2005 6:49:51 PM PDT by johnb838 (Santo Subito! Presto!)
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